249 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

I didn't pay much attention before, but since this was bumped I took a look at this most recent page.

Black Widow is inferior to the Widow, Javelin and Mantis on squad mates. The reason is simply because they fire it at the same rate as they fire the others, but it does less damage per shot.

[Drayce333]

capn233 wrote...

I didn't pay much attention before, but since this was bumped I took a look at this most recent page.

Black Widow is inferior to the Widow, Javelin and Mantis on squad mates. The reason is simply because they fire it at the same rate as they fire the others, but it does less damage per shot.

Not true, they CAN fire the BW in quick succesion giving it more overall damage than a single shot sniper, the drop in damage isn't much compared to the javelin and mantis, so its much better than those but the Widow still stands strong against it. The Krysae is the best sniper though because of its proximity AoE shots and armor multiplier and 3 round clip, though garrus will lose his wall haxing capabilities.

[capn233]

Drayce333 wrote...

Not true, they CAN fire the BW in quick succesion giving it more overall damage than a single shot sniper, the drop in damage isn't much compared to the javelin and mantis, so its much better than those but the Widow still stands strong against it. The Krysae is the best sniper though because of its proximity AoE shots and armor multiplier and 3 round clip, though garrus will lose his wall haxing capabilities.

I have not seen them fire it more often than any of the others.  I tested this on Ash and Garrus on N7 Cerberus Fighter Base.  In each instance they would take cover, then pop out to fire a single shot, then go back into cover.  The only difference was that they would eject a clip each time for the Javelin or Widow, but not for the Black Widow.  If you notice, the rate of fire stat for each of the single shots is 70rpm, while Black Widow is 60... which essentially jived with what I observed as a practical 60rpm for all of them.

I did not test Marksman on Ash with the Black Widow... maybe she is semi-decent with it that way.  However, I do not like spec'ing Marksman on her anyway as I find her other powers more useful.  And Garrus can't get Marksman, and he is the real character that I prefer to run an SR on anyway (since he has a better bonus).

The damage drop is about 100 below Mantis, per shot, and several hundred below the Widow and Javelin.

[Drayce333]

capn233 wrote...

Drayce333 wrote...

Not true, they CAN fire the BW in quick succesion giving it more overall damage than a single shot sniper, the drop in damage isn't much compared to the javelin and mantis, so its much better than those but the Widow still stands strong against it. The Krysae is the best sniper though because of its proximity AoE shots and armor multiplier and 3 round clip, though garrus will lose his wall haxing capabilities.

I have not seen them fire it more often than any of the others.  I tested this on Ash and Garrus on N7 Cerberus Fighter Base.  In each instance they would take cover, then pop out to fire a single shot, then go back into cover.  The only difference was that they would eject a clip each time for the Javelin or Widow, but not for the Black Widow.  If you notice, the rate of fire stat for each of the single shots is 70rpm, while Black Widow is 60... which essentially jived with what I observed as a practical 60rpm for all of them.

I did not test Marksman on Ash with the Black Widow... maybe she is semi-decent with it that way.  However, I do not like spec'ing Marksman on her anyway as I find her other powers more useful.  And Garrus can't get Marksman, and he is the real character that I prefer to run an SR on anyway (since he has a better bonus).

The damage drop is about 100 below Mantis, per shot, and several hundred below the Widow and Javelin.

Ashley is better of with a Assault Rifle because of the bonuses with Disruptor ammo. I've still seen better results with garrus fitted with a BW than the Widow. They are prone to shoot then go back to cover but often they will take another shot immendiately depending on circumstance.

[Nitrocuban]

How does Concentration Mod work on squad mates or does it work at all on them?
Garrus with AP ammo and a AP Sniper Rifle does not need the priecing mod imho, so what about Barrel and Concentration Mod in this case?

[Nightmare137]

Nitrocuban wrote...

How does Concentration Mod work on squad mates or does it work at all on them?
Garrus with AP ammo and a AP Sniper Rifle does not need the priecing mod imho, so what about Barrel and Concentration Mod in this case?

They receive the damage bonus though obviously they cant gain the time-dilation.

[Nitrocuban]

Yes, that was my question.
Accordind to the wiki it is 15% damage bonus.

[known_hero]

I don't know if this has been said before but take all of the weapon damage evolutions from the squad mates passives and you'll see a big difference in damage output. Garrus, James, and Ash can take out Brutes and Ravs on their own with a low level Typhoon.

The widow is definitely the best SR for squad mates. Theoretically, the Jav should work the same way. Haven't tested it yet.

[capn233]

known_hero wrote...

The widow is definitely the best SR for squad mates. Theoretically, the Jav should work the same way. Haven't tested it yet.

Javelin works well on Garrus.

[Nightmare137]

capn233 wrote...

known_hero wrote...

The widow is definitely the best SR for squad mates. Theoretically, the Jav should work the same way. Haven't tested it yet.

Javelin works well on Garrus.

That it does, though garrus has enough penetration bonus from AP ammo that the javelins only advantage for squadmates is pretty moot. Widow will do more damage and has half that natural cover pen so it is better for him or any squadmate really.

Modifié par Nightmare137, 03 décembre 2012 - 10:52 .

[capn233]

Nightmare137 wrote...

That it does, though garrus has enough penetration bonus from AP ammo that the javelins only advantage for squadmates is pretty moot. Widow will do more damage and has half that natural cover pen so it is better for him or any squadmate really.

The other advantage of the Javelin is that you get it earlier than the Widow.  So I tend to upgrade it and not pay again to upgrade the Widow.  I don't think there is enough difference in damage that it matters a whole lot on a squad member, and extra cover penetration is nice since they take odd shots sometimes.  I also don't like investing his points in AP ammo if I don't have to since I want to max his other powers.

Of course if you don't ever upgrade weapons that just your squad uses I suppose you can switch him directly to Widow on Thessia.

[Nightmare137]

capn233 wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

That it does, though garrus has enough penetration bonus from AP ammo that the javelins only advantage for squadmates is pretty moot. Widow will do more damage and has half that natural cover pen so it is better for him or any squadmate really.

The other advantage of the Javelin is that you get it earlier than the Widow.  So I tend to upgrade it and not pay again to upgrade the Widow.  I don't think there is enough difference in damage that it matters a whole lot on a squad member, and extra cover penetration is nice since they take odd shots sometimes.  I also don't like investing his points in AP ammo if I don't have to since I want to max his other powers.

Of course if you don't ever upgrade weapons that just your squad uses I suppose you can switch him directly to Widow on Thessia.

Well true that you get the javelin sooner, the cover pen still is a minor thing. Generally you'll be putting the penetration mod on squad member SRs anyway which is still more than enough penetration on either weapon that the squad members will use effectively.

If you compare the widow and javelin at lvl 10 than the difference in damage is 90.1 base damage per round in the widows favor. Factoring the base damage against the squad members multipliers ends up making it a moderate chunk of damage.

Garrus for instance can reach 160% damage bonus for SRs through his turian rebel passive + damage barrel which is another 25%. This ends up being another 166.68 damage per round without factoring in an ammo power or other squad mate bonuses that boost weapon damage. Garrus armor-piercing ammo set for full health/armor damage bonus would add another 27.03 onto that and if he has a damage bonus from his armor you can factor another 22.52 damage on top of that.

[SaturnRing]

capn233 wrote...

I didn't pay much attention before, but since this was bumped I took a look at this most recent page.

Black Widow is inferior to the Widow, Javelin and Mantis on squad mates. The reason is simply because they fire it at the same rate as they fire the others, but it does less damage per shot.

I'm with you on that. I initially thought that equipping Garrus with either the Widow, Javelin or  Mantis would be more of a hindrance because of their bolt action; it turns out  (at least for me) teammates don't really take advantage of the BW higher rate of fire. So they might as well stick to those which deliver more damage: in this case bolt action rifles. I haven't tried the Krysae yet on Garrus(i did with Williams and got mixed results); that should prove more fruitful.

Modifié par SaturnRing, 04 décembre 2012 - 07:23 .

[capn233]

Nightmare137 wrote...

Well true that you get the javelin sooner, the cover pen still is a minor thing. Generally you'll be putting the penetration mod on squad member SRs anyway which is still more than enough penetration on either weapon that the squad members will use effectively.

I actually don't tend to do that on the Javelin.  I am more likely to give him the Concentration Mod for another 15% damage on top of the 25% for the Extended Barrel.  Having the innate 1m allows me to do that for the extra damage without spec'ing him into AP ammo.

By Level 60 he will probably get AP III though, unless I am running a character with a squad ammo variant that I want him to use.  Which is basically just Incendiary, or potentially Disruptor vs Geth.

Modifié par capn233, 04 décembre 2012 - 07:48 .

[Nightmare137]

capn233 wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

Well true that you get the javelin sooner, the cover pen still is a minor thing. Generally you'll be putting the penetration mod on squad member SRs anyway which is still more than enough penetration on either weapon that the squad members will use effectively.

I actually don't tend to do that on the Javelin.  I am more likely to give him the Concentration Mod for another 15% damage on top of the 25% for the Extended Barrel.  Having the innate 1m allows me to do that for the extra damage without spec'ing him into AP ammo.

By Level 60 he will probably get AP III though, unless I am running a character with a squad ammo variant that I want him to use.  Which is basically just Incendiary, or potentially Disruptor vs Geth.

That same set up still has the widow being superior. Since it has higher damage it gets even more out of the 15%.

[capn233]

Nightmare137 wrote...

That same set up still has the widow being superior. Since it has higher damage it gets even more out of the 15%.

Yes the Widow will be better at damage, but inferior at cover penetration.

I didn't set out to prove that the Javelin is better than the Widow.  The whole point was that the Javelin works fairly well on Garrus, and if you have invested in a Javelin V there isn't a whole lot of reason to upgrade a Widow to V as well to get another ~80pts of base damage.  If you have the extra credits, by all means do it.  I have run Garrus plenty of times with the Widow after Thessia.  I have also run him plenty of times with the Javelin.  There isn't a huge difference in effectiveness overall.

[Nightmare137]

capn233 wrote...

Nightmare137 wrote...

That same set up still has the widow being superior. Since it has higher damage it gets even more out of the 15%.

Yes the Widow will be better at damage, but inferior at cover penetration.

I didn't set out to prove that the Javelin is better than the Widow.  The whole point was that the Javelin works fairly well on Garrus, and if you have invested in a Javelin V there isn't a whole lot of reason to upgrade a Widow to V as well to get another ~80pts of base damage.  If you have the extra credits, by all means do it.  I have run Garrus plenty of times with the Widow after Thessia.  I have also run him plenty of times with the Javelin.  There isn't a huge difference in effectiveness overall.

Certainly didnt seem that way seeing as my first post was agreeing that the javelin works well on him than stating a fact only for you to reply with a post stating the advantages javelin has over the widow; Sounds a lot like a debate. A lot of people also are running imported me3 games now by this point so they already have both anyway.

Regardless, a point I was trying to get across is It's kind of impossible to get too much damage per round in SP weapons on squad members but it is possible to get too much cover penetration. The extra .5 m pen the javelin has wont be put to effective use much seeing as not every shot is towards cover and generally a lot of cover is already easily penetrated between weapon mods, ammo powers and the even smaller natural pen of the widow.

Also base damage means a lot seeing as all squad members have very large damage multiplier potentials. What I said before with garrus basically means that with every 4 widow shots he does he gets extra damage equal to a 5th one going off over that measly 90.1 base damage.

[DeinonSlayer]

What do you guys think of the Crusader as a squadmate shotgun, compared to, say, the Wraith? Does Smart Choke have any effect on squadmate accuracy? I'd think it would result in a tighter shot pattern, but maybe it makes them shoot more accurately with the Crusader? Shotgun high-velocity barrel covers the effects of the damage and penetration mods - OP might need to be updated to reflect that.

[Steelcan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

What do you guys think of the Crusader as a squadmate shotgun, compared to, say, the Wraith? Does Smart Choke have any effect on squadmate accuracy? I'd think it would result in a tighter shot pattern, but maybe it makes them shoot more accurately with the Crusader? Shotgun high-velocity barrel covers the effects of the damage and penetration mods - OP might need to be updated to reflect that.

I usually give my shotgun squadmates a Claymore with extended barrel and shredder mod, I don't have any DLC besides From Ashes so I don't have the high-velocity barrel.

But in my experiences no smart choke makes 0 difference

[Chashan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

What do you guys think of the Crusader as a squadmate shotgun, compared to, say, the Wraith? Does Smart Choke have any effect on squadmate accuracy? I'd think it would result in a tighter shot pattern, but maybe it makes them shoot more accurately with the Crusader? Shotgun high-velocity barrel covers the effects of the damage and penetration mods - OP might need to be updated to reflect that.

Smart Choke is rather worthless on the Cruise, as it is already as precise as it gets. Coupling HVB with either bayonets actually is not that bad an idea, though. Sure, melee is a rare occurence for squaddies, but punching harder when they do does not exactly hurt either. If HVB is not available, standard barrel and AP does just fine too.

It is not bad as a sniping-type weapon if you feel like the shotgun-users in your party should be relegated to that task. In fact, for them it is the only viable option for that in the shotgun-slot.

[DeinonSlayer]

Chashan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

What do you guys think of the Crusader as a squadmate shotgun, compared to, say, the Wraith? Does Smart Choke have any effect on squadmate accuracy? I'd think it would result in a tighter shot pattern, but maybe it makes them shoot more accurately with the Crusader? Shotgun high-velocity barrel covers the effects of the damage and penetration mods - OP might need to be updated to reflect that.

Smart Choke is rather worthless on the Cruise, as it is already as precise as it gets. Coupling HVB with either bayonets actually is not that bad an idea, though. Sure, melee is a rare occurence for squaddies, but punching harder when they do does not exactly hurt either. If HVB is not available, standard barrel and AP does just fine too.

It is not bad as a sniping-type weapon if you feel like the shotgun-users in your party should be relegated to that task. In fact, for them it is the only viable option for that in the shotgun-slot.

Does Smart Choke work well for squadmates with other types of guns? Say, the Wraith, Claymore or Pirahna? I'd think coupling Smart Choke and High-Velocity Barrel would be the most effective combination.

[brazen_nl]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

]Does Smart Choke work well for squadmates with other types of guns? Say, the Wraith, Claymore or Pirahna? I'd think coupling Smart Choke and High-Velocity Barrel would be the most effective combination.

According to the first post, it doesn't (like, the fifth line or so). I haven't tested it, though.

[KangDo]

Sorry for thread bump but why does the OP recommend shredder mod for GPS? Doesn't it ignore damage reduction?

[RedCaesar97]

KangDo wrote...

Sorry for thread bump but why does the OP recommend shredder mod for GPS? Doesn't it ignore damage reduction?

The original post was likely written before it became known that the Shredder mod did not do anything on the Geth Plasma Shotgun.

[AVPen]

So, has anyone been testing out the new Citadel weapons (Lancer assault rifle and Suppressor pistol) with the squadmates yet?