299 réponses à ce sujet

[DadeLeviathan]

Thane nearly beat him, and he was near death. If Thane was in prime condition, he would have mopped the floor with Kai Leng.

[Arppis]

Kai Leng can't hold his own in a fair fight.

[Salyut]

Thane. No questions there. I mean, once I got Kai Leng's shield down, my vanguard killed him with almost no effort at all. Who's slow now?

[CrazyCatDude]

CodyMelch wrote...

CrazyCatDude wrote...

@SithLordExarKun

You're a Kai Leng fan.  We get it.  The thing is, Kai Leng, as presented in the game is a complete punk.  He goes up against Thane, and Thane, with difficulty breathing, and brain damage (if you listen to the details of his conversation, and what the doctor says about him) manages to stop Leng from reaching his target, and lay on the beatdown.  Leng basically kills Thane with a sucker punch, which likely never would have happened if Thane were healthy.

Then there's the fact that, like Shepard says, Leng spends all his time running away.  He runs on the Citadel, he runs on Thessia, and when he finally shows up for a "fair fight" he brings dozens of Cerberus goons with him.

When it comes right down to it, I don't think Leng could take Thane, or Garrus, or Wrex, or Grunt, Jack, Samara or Zaeed, and certainly wouldn't have a chance against Shepard.  Legion would be interesting.  Obviously, he could take Miranda if he caught her by surprise.  I don't think Jacob, Tali or Kasumi could take him, but Tali and Kasumi are more tech experts than main line brawlers (even allowing for the fact that they're better fighters than most commandos), and Jacob, while a decent fighter, is easily the weakest link on the Suicide squad.

Honestly, what would have made Leng a much better character is if he HAD been on the Suicide Squad, in Jacob's role, complete with all the Xenophobia what Leng expresses in the novels.  Would have added tons of conflict.

About Jacob, he is actually pretty damn good. Rivaling Garrus imo. I mean he did some impressive feats in Mass Effect Galaxy afterall. And survived Eden Prime(I think the only other squad that managed that and fought a lot was Sheps).

I'm not saying Jacob isn't a heck of a soldier.  TIM says he's one of the best, and TIM knows talent.  Heck, he'd probably have ended up an N7 at some point, had he stayed in the alliance.  That said, he's not really in the same league as Garrus.  When you get right down to it, Garrus, Wrex, Saren, and an *unindoctrinated* Benezzia are probably the four biggest BAMF's in the Galaxy after Shepard.

[General User]

Thane.

Thane all day. Thane all night. Thane on those weird, tidally locked planets that don't really have a day or a night.

Thane on a plane, Thane on a train.
Thane with his bare fists
Pounding Kai Leng.

Thane.

Modifié par General User, 18 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[chibilombax]

Thane. That biotic **** slap of his would be much stronger.

[ShdwFox7]

CrazyCatDude wrote...

@SithLordExarKun

You're a Kai Leng fan.  We get it.  The thing is, Kai Leng, as presented in the game is a complete punk.  He goes up against Thane, and Thane, with difficulty breathing, and brain damage (if you listen to the details of his conversation, and what the doctor says about him) manages to stop Leng from reaching his target, and lay on the beatdown.  Leng basically kills Thane with a sucker punch, which likely never would have happened if Thane were healthy.

   This is the type of absolute fan-bias crap this thread is plagued with. Yeah, we get it, Thane wasn't exactly healthy at the time of the fight. But your also forgetting the fact that behind Thane, was three, highly skilled, highly armed men. Every action Kai Leng took in that fight had to be calculated in such a way to put himself in an angle where he could not be shot from. That's an extremely difficult thing to pull off while fighting against another, even moderately skilled (which Thane obviously isn't), assassin.

Then there's the fact that, like Shepard says, Leng spends all his time running away.  He runs on the Citadel, he runs on Thessia, and when he finally shows up for a "fair fight" he brings dozens of Cerberus goons with him.

   Their is no such thing as a fair fight. And all the times Shepard called Leng out for running is a load of bull anyway. Your seemingly forgetting the fact that it has never been just Shepard vs. Kai Leng. It's always been Shepard + squad mate + squad mate vs. Kai Leng. How exactly is that fair, especially considering Shepard's squad is full of the toughest guys in the galaxy? In the case of the Citadel it was four. And after tactically retreating what did he do? He comes back and jacks Shepard's car. I'm not even going to bother with Thessia; Leng made Shepard look pitiful there.

When it comes right down to it, I don't think Leng could take Thane, or Garrus, or Wrex, or Grunt, Jack, Samara or Zaeed, and certainly wouldn't have a chance against Shepard.  Legion would be interesting.  Obviously, he could take Miranda if he caught her by surprise.  I don't think Jacob, Tali or Kasumi could take him, but Tali and Kasumi are more tech experts than main line brawlers (even allowing for the fact that they're better fighters than most commandos), and Jacob, while a decent fighter, is easily the weakest link on the Suicide squad.

This section of your post is silly. Not only is it off topic but it's a massive trap.

Honestly, what would have made Leng a much better character is if he HAD been on the Suicide Squad, in Jacob's role, complete with all the Xenophobia what Leng expresses in the novels.  Would have added tons of conflict.

So your basically saying "the only way Leng would have been a competent character is if was introduced into the video games sooner" - that's the biggest bias load I've heard yet. And it's exactly why I refuse to be a part of this thread anymore. People are just looking at what they see from the video games instead of taking in all the facts of the games and novels. The bottom line is that Leng is an extremely powerful adversary. Their is a reason he can fight multiple or powerful opponents at one time and still come out of the conflicts alive. He proves this by killing a krogan bare-handed in a bar fight. He continues to proves this in Retribution by taking out five miltary seasoned turians in close quarters fighting. And he further continues to prove this time and time again in ME3 by fighting Shepard (including squad mates) and still surviving.

*edit: massive structure fixes

Modifié par ShdwFox7, 18 mars 2012 - 03:41 .

[killnoob]

Kai Leng would win, if he starts using toothbrush as his main weapon.

[RedMike512]

Why does everyone like Thane so much? I thought he was a whiny bastard.

[Tsemaru]

I kind of like that he doesn't fight fair actually. Good villains generally don't.

In any case, healthy Thane vs. the Kai Leng that's represented in the game? Thane could probably take him.
But a healthy Thane vs. a well-written, non-indoctrinated Kai Leng? Now /that/ I'd like to see.

Modifié par Tsemaru, 18 mars 2012 - 03:51 .

[raident30]

thane!

[Cody]

ShdwFox7 wrote...
Their is no such thing as a fair fight. And all the times Shepard called Leng out for running is a load of bull anyway. Your seemingly forgetting the fact that it has never been just Shepard vs. Kai Leng. It's always been Shepard + squad mate + squad mate vs. Kai Leng. How exactly is that fair, especially considering Shepard's squad is full of the toughest guys in the galaxy? In the case of the Citadel it was four. And after tactically retreating what did he do? He comes back and jacks Shepard's car. I'm not even going to bother with Thessia; Leng made Shepard look pitiful there.

Your so full of crap lol. What do you think Kai had? First fight on Thesia he had a Gunship helping him out, shooting Shep and co while healing his shields. Even then he couldn't beat them in a fight he had to shoot out the area around them. He ran both times because he could not face them and win.

As for the fight at the Cerberus base? Kai had power circuit things around the area that replenish his shields. AND had multiple Cerberus soldiers helping him. And not only grunts either. So don't give me that Bulls.hit. He was never alone either.

People are just looking at what they see
from the video games instead of taking in all the facts of the games and
novels. The bottom line is that Leng is an extremely powerful
adversary. Their is a reason he can fight multiple or powerful opponents
at one time and still come out of the conflicts alive. He proves this
by killing a krogan bare-handed in a bar fight. He continues to proves
this in Retribution by taking out five miltary seasoned turians in close
quarters fighting. And he further continues to prove this time and time
again in ME3 by fighting Shepard (including squad mates) and still
surviving.

And every single squad member that Shep has ever had has fought multiple powerful opponents alone and come out on top as well..and he can beat a Krogan with his hands. This was a f.ucking bar fight. We do not know what happened. How intoxicated the Krogan was, or how it was even fought. To use that as a feat is stupid. For the Krogan could have been blind drunk and/or Kai could have surprised attacked him. And it only shows his hand to hand skills. NOT his overall combat abilities.

Modifié par CodyMelch, 18 mars 2012 - 04:03 .

[elm]

thane was already kicking his ass when he was sick

[RogueBot]

As a human being, I'm glad Kai Leng never had to fight a healthy Thane. It would've been embarassing. I'd be hearing trash talk from Drell for MONTHS.

Modifié par RogueBot, 18 mars 2012 - 04:07 .

[Paparob]

Thane. Kai Leng strikes as a guy who dramatically overestimates his skill set. He is good waaaay out of his league against legends like Thane.

[Subject M]

RedMike512 wrote...

Why does everyone like Thane so much? I thought he was a whiny bastard.

He is a new take on the zen-master-battle-monk archetype combined with deathdealer.
People just think he is boring because his gameplay was pretty crap. You just get some vague idea of how damn dangerous this guy is in cut-scenes.

And he showed KL his pimphand with one foot already in the grave.

Modifié par Subject M, 18 mars 2012 - 04:13 .

[Madecologist]

I'd say Thane. Kai Leng seems to use reinforcements or fight with support. He uses it to his advantage and exploits it to the fullest. However Thane seems to be specialised in going solo and using tactics based around that. So in a one on one fight, open playground. Thane.

Closed Arena (like a caged death match), hard to tell. I would go Thane in the end. At least from what we know of them from inside the game, Kai Leng always seemed to be with support. While Thane handled things solo (but did use the situations to his advantage though).

[Lucy Glitter]

Kronner wrote...

Kai Leng is a joke. A healthy Thane would have eaten him for breakfast.

[FierceReaper]

Thane. Additionally, Kai Leng wouldn't have even known what hit him, unless Thane wanted him to. Kai Leng just seems so sloppy.

Modifié par FierceReaper, 18 mars 2012 - 04:20 .

[CrazyCatDude]

ShdwFox7 wrote...

CrazyCatDude wrote...

@SithLordExarKun

You're a Kai Leng fan.  We get it.  The thing is, Kai Leng, as presented in the game is a complete punk.  He goes up against Thane, and Thane, with difficulty breathing, and brain damage (if you listen to the details of his conversation, and what the doctor says about him) manages to stop Leng from reaching his target, and lay on the beatdown.  Leng basically kills Thane with a sucker punch, which likely never would have happened if Thane were healthy.

   This is the type of absolute fan-bias crap this thread is plagued with. Yeah, we get it, Thane wasn't exactly healthy at the time of the fight. But your also forgetting the fact that behind Thane, was three, highly skilled, highly armed men. Every action Kai Leng took in that fight had to be calculated in such a way to put himself in an angle where he could not be shot from. That's an extremely difficult thing to pull off while fighting against another, even moderately skilled (which Thane obviously isn't), assassin.

Then there's the fact that, like Shepard says, Leng spends all his time running away.  He runs on the Citadel, he runs on Thessia, and when he finally shows up for a "fair fight" he brings dozens of Cerberus goons with him.

   Their is no such thing as a fair fight. And all the times Shepard called Leng out for running is a load of bull anyway. Your seemingly forgetting the fact that it has never been just Shepard vs. Kai Leng. It's always been Shepard + squad mate + squad mate vs. Kai Leng. How exactly is that fair, especially considering Shepard's squad is full of the toughest guys in the galaxy? In the case of the Citadel it was four. And after tactically retreating what did he do? He comes back and jacks Shepard's car. I'm not even going to bother with Thessia; Leng made Shepard look pitiful there.

When it comes right down to it, I don't think Leng could take Thane, or Garrus, or Wrex, or Grunt, Jack, Samara or Zaeed, and certainly wouldn't have a chance against Shepard.  Legion would be interesting.  Obviously, he could take Miranda if he caught her by surprise.  I don't think Jacob, Tali or Kasumi could take him, but Tali and Kasumi are more tech experts than main line brawlers (even allowing for the fact that they're better fighters than most commandos), and Jacob, while a decent fighter, is easily the weakest link on the Suicide squad.

This section of your post is silly. Not only is it off topic but it's a massive trap.

Honestly, what would have made Leng a much better character is if he HAD been on the Suicide Squad, in Jacob's role, complete with all the Xenophobia what Leng expresses in the novels.  Would have added tons of conflict.

So your basically saying "the only way Leng would have been a competent character is if was introduced into the video games sooner" - that's the biggest bias load I've heard yet. And it's exactly why I refuse to be a part of this thread anymore. People are just looking at what they see from the video games instead of taking in all the facts of the games and novels. The bottom line is that Leng is an extremely powerful adversary. Their is a reason he can fight multiple or powerful opponents at one time and still come out of the conflicts alive. He proves this by killing a krogan bare-handed in a bar fight. He continues to proves this in Retribution by taking out five miltary seasoned turians in close quarters fighting. And he further continues to prove this time and time again in ME3 by fighting Shepard (including squad mates) and still surviving.

*edit: massive structure fixes

No, I'm saying he would have been a more compelling character if he had been introduced earlier.  I'm not saying that would have made him competent.

You're also making the assumption that I'm a huge Thane fan.  I'm not.  Up until ME3 dropped, I'd say Thane was only beat out for my least favorite character by Kaidan, and only then by a narrow margin.

The problem I have with the whole "Kai Leng is an uber-BAMF" is, simply put, he never acts like it.  Every time he shows up, he acts like a freaking punk.  The fact that he looks like an idiot and runs around with a *sword* just drives the point home.  Like Garrus says, leave it to Cerberus to bring a knife to a gun fight.  If he'd had a real weapon, like, I don't know, a pistol, he could have plugged the Salarian Counselor without Shepard and Co. Ever seeing him.

And the thing is, he *never* does anything particularly impressive.  He... completely fails at his mission on the citadel, on Thessia he calls down an air strike, he sends a troll email that's truly worthy of a middle schooler, and then, with multiple Cerberus strike times backing him up, he gets shanked in his own base.

As opposed to Garrus, who held off three merc groups *by himself* for over a day, with nothing but a good position, a sniper rifle, and an assault rifle,  Zaeed who brought down a Turian Cruiser from the inside,  Wrex, who killed a Thresher maw in his right, and engaged with foreplay with Aria that destroyed an entire space station, Jack who knocked a Turian Space station out of orbit, Grunt who killed a Thresher Maw and a clan chief during his right, and Samara who single handedly took out a ship full of mercenaries *before* she had Justicar training.

All we ever hear about Kai Leng in game is that he and Anderson had a run in, and he survived getting shot in the legs.  That's... less than impressive.

[GiBBsBoT05]

Everyone who wonders who'd bring a sword to a gun fight:

I dunno, but I've been killed by more Phantoms on multi than I'd like to remember.

[hammerfan]

Thane easily

[Ham Solo]

GiBBsBoT05 wrote...

Everyone who wonders who'd bring a sword to a gun fight:

I dunno, but I've been killed by more Phantoms on multi than I'd like to remember.

If they are alone, they're no problem. if 5 other enemies with guns are distracting you, they are dangerous.

[Icinix]

Considering Thane nearly had him and Thane was on Deaths door before anyway - Thane would hands down.

[Chuvvy]

Thane.