338 réponses à ce sujet

[PMC65]

MikeRoz wrote...

 At the climax of ME1, Saren goes on a rant and says the following:

"The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth."

ME1 Shepard rejects this logic and shoots him in the face. (For extra credit, you can get him to shoot himself in the face.)

Now we're supposed to believe that ME3 Shepard does a 180 when vent kid presents the exact same proposition?

But Shepard is special ... even Morinth says that. And we see how he could meld with her and ... oh, wait. Scratch that. Space magic then?

[LittleDeadGirl]

My problem with synthesis is as follows. Synthetics have no DNA there is no logical way to combine the two without simply creating a cyborg which already exist in the universe. On a moral level the game is implying we cannot get along unless we are all the same which flies philosophically in the face of what has been said over and over again for three games. The game also shows us that synthetics are not obligated to destroy ALL organic life. The Geth attempted over and over again to end the war with Quarians. Even if they chose to end organic life they would not kill anything more then the reapers are killing (aka advanced life). Why on earth would AI go around killing lesser being. You see Geth running around squashing kittens? For what purpose? It's illogical.

[Mandemon]

MikeRoz wrote...

 At the climax of ME1, Saren goes on a rant and says the following:

"The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth."

ME1 Shepard rejects this logic and shoots him in the face. (For extra credit, you can get him to shoot himself in the face.)

Now we're supposed to believe that ME3 Shepard does a 180 when vent kid presents the exact same proposition?

Yup. Because s/he likes pretty color space magic:wizard: more than reality.

[Darth_Ultima]

The OP's entire point was completely made moot in my game. Both EDI and the Geth joined my cause which throws that stupid little starchild's axiom "Synthetics will always rebel against organics" into complete doubt. First and foremost the Synthetic Geth and EDI were being treated as equals not as slaves so as far as I can see the motive to rebel is not there. Why are these people persisting to try to defend this non-ending. Every argument they make in its defense is blasted to pieces because it is based on faulty logic that completely ignores what the player has done in the game up to this point. Saying you like it is about the only defense you can make that can not be refuted because it is based on personal preference and not story-line continuity or logic. However everyone I have talked to does not like it. In fact I would say the majority opinion is that they despise the ending.

[Mandemon]

LittleDeadGirl wrote...

My problem with synthesis is as follows. Synthetics have no DNA there is no logical way to combine the two without simply creating a cyborg which already exist in the universe. On a moral level the game is implying we cannot get along unless we are all the same which flies philosophically in the face of what has been said over and over again for three games. The game also shows us that synthetics are not obligated to destroy ALL organic life. The Geth attempted over and over again to end the war with Quarians. Even if they chose to end organic life they would not kill anything more then the reapers are killing (aka advanced life). Why on earth would AI go around killing lesser being. You see Geth running around squashing kittens? For what purpose? It's illogical.

Aaah, yes, "logic"

We have dimmissed that claim.

[Zolt51]

vertigo72 wrote...
People pick the details but don't see the whole picture. So, there is how I understand the whole story and why I think the ending is very good:

Fried, I agree with you but let's not put oil on the fire right now. There's about 85%-90% of people who are very upset about the ending on this board. And I don't think you can change their mind with mere words, just twist the knife some more.

I actually wish there were segregated forums so people who were OK with the ending could discuss it without rubbing it in for everyone else and vice-versa.

[jumpingkaede]

novaseeker wrote...

Really?

"My attacks will tear you apart!"

"You will feel pain, Shepard."

Doesn't sound like formatting a disk.  Sounds pretty evil to me.

Harbinger is just being honest.  And objective.

His attacks will tear you apart.  Shepard will feel pain.

He's like a doctor giving you a shot.  You will feel pain.  But the doctor isn't trying to harm you or being evil; it's just inevitable.

rofl

[novaseeker]

jumpingkaede wrote...

novaseeker wrote...

Really?

"My attacks will tear you apart!"

"You will feel pain, Shepard."

Doesn't sound like formatting a disk.  Sounds pretty evil to me.

Harbinger is just being honest.  And objective.

His attacks will tear you apart.  Shepard will feel pain.

He's like a doctor giving you a shot.  You will feel pain.  But the doctor isn't trying to harm you or being evil; it's just inevitable.

rofl

lol

[Cobra's_back]

Zolt51 wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...
People pick the details but don't see the whole picture. So, there is how I understand the whole story and why I think the ending is very good:

Fried, I agree with you but let's not put oil on the fire right now. There's about 85%-90% of people who are very upset about the ending on this board. And I don't think you can change their mind with mere words, just twist the knife some more.

I actually wish there were segregated forums so people who were OK with the ending could discuss it without rubbing it in for everyone else and vice-versa.

I’m with you on this.
Vertigo72 “People pick the details but don’t see the whole picture” I also LOL when this guy claims to understand why everyone likes or dislikes the game.

[Wolven_Soul]

vertigo72


In fact, nobody knows anything about Reapers for sure. Even things we know can be lies or falsifications.

That is a really weak statement, and actually it is a fact that Sovereign wakes up so very often.  I do not remember who exactly said it, but someone did, and it is accepted as the truth.

Modifié par Wolven_Soul, 17 mars 2012 - 08:11 .

[vertigo72]

13 pages and still nothing?

You know, I think I agree now. I just started my second playthrough (I liked the ending so I don't have problem with that, I can replay) and I already did the mission on Mars. Then there I found an ENORMOUS PLOTHOLE. When the shuttle lands on Mars there are little flags. Those flags are facing the WRONG DIRECTION!!!!! My experience is completely ruined by now and I'm deeply depressed.

What should I do: boycot, take refund or both maybe?

PS: It was 10 minutes ago  and I'm still crying. I'm so depressed .... and angry!

Modifié par vertigo72, 17 mars 2012 - 10:19 .

[Lo Chiamavano Bulldozer]

vertigo72 wrote...

 
People pick the details but don't see the whole picture. So, there is how I understand the whole story and why I think the ending is very good:


You, Shepard, are here to solve a big problem that you don't even understand before the end. Which is this problem?

The main problem of the ME Universe is that organic life creates syntetic life then tries to destroy it. Always. It's like an axiom in this ME Universe, you have to trust Reapers (and Bioware writers) on that. Syntetic life is like organic life, but it is not limited by the body. Most important thing it is immortal. So any AI can evolve as much as they can, because they don't have time constraints. Because of that they are immensely superior. Also, they don't have emotions, at least not much. So we have this hopeless and very very ancient war, that's our problem.


(Don't say that you didn't see that coming because you fight syntetics in all 3 ME games. Reapers, Geth, husks, indoctrinated people, ...)


AIs are like Legion, they don't really need to fight but they will protect their life. So some ancient AI found a solution: a way to unify synthetic and organic life. The problem with this solution is that AIs don't want to unify themselves with some retards (would you like to unify yourself with your pocket calculator?) Also, they don't want to make a choice themselves, maybe they don't have consensus or something. Also, they don't want to force organics.


So, they gave organics a test: evolve enogh and you will have a choice what to do. To pass the test you have to build a big stick, put it on the Citadel and press a button. That's all. Then you will have 3 choices. You have 50000 years to do it, now go and evolve. Every 50k years we (Reapers) will come and give you an exam. When you fail we will copy your software and some DNA into a new reaper then use you for some purpose. 

The Citadel, the little boy, is like the examiner who will judge you. That's why it doesn't inferfere.


And Shepard was the first organic to do it, unify everybody to build the stick and arrive to the exam to press a button.


About 3 choices: it's a part of the exam,  only one choice is correct. 


If you choose to destroy or control the Reapers, then the problem will rise again sooner or later. Synthetics will always evolve into AI and the war will start again, eventually new Reapers will be created and so on. 


If you choose to unify both races then there will be no war anymore and only one form of life that will inherit best parts of both forms. Something like immortal people with all their emotions.


So, to ensure that you really really gave the answer you have right to only one answer, after you die. (If you don't choose you die too, as every 50000 years)


That's my view of this story and that's why I believe the ending is perfect, despite some minor problems, like no helmets...

LOL

Every single thing you said is wrong: incredible.

- Synthetics started the war: no, the quarian started an epuration

- Synthetics protecte themself: obviously, what are they supposed to do, lay down and die?

- Exam: Are you joking? They come to exterminate you , that isn't a quiz.

- Reapers / the child are right: where the hell is written? They could just be crazy AIs

- Unify everybody? Explain me how, then: synthetics doesn't have DNA...

And after all that: the destruction of the portals. Following DLC "Arrival" destroy a portal = destruction a system => destroing all portal = destroing the galaxy . Good work, Shepard.

And there are a LOT of other plotholes, that i don't wanna even explain this night.

Sorry for my bad english, hope you'll understand what i'm saying

[Wolven_Soul]

vertigo72 wrote...

13 pages and still nothing?

You know, I think I agree now. I just started my second playthrough (I liked the ending so I don't have problem with that, I can replay) and I already did the mission on Mars. Then there I found an ENORMOUS PLOTHOLE. When the shuttle lands on Mars there are little flags. Those flags are facing the WRONG DIRECTION!!!!! My experience is completely ruined by now and I'm deeply depressed.

What should I do: boycot, take refund or both maybe?

PS: It was 10 minutes ago  and I'm still crying. I'm so depressed .... and angry!

Wow...that was childish.

[Jadebaby]

I swear some of these people just do this for the hits now.

Bioware lied..

[vertigo72]

Wolven_Soul wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

13 pages and still nothing?

You know, I think I agree now. I just started my second playthrough (I liked the ending so I don't have problem with that, I can replay) and I already did the mission on Mars. Then there I found an ENORMOUS PLOTHOLE. When the shuttle lands on Mars there are little flags. Those flags are facing the WRONG DIRECTION!!!!! My experience is completely ruined by now and I'm deeply depressed.

What should I do: boycot, take refund or both maybe?

PS: It was 10 minutes ago  and I'm still crying. I'm so depressed .... and angry!

Wow...that was childish.

How do you dare! I'm here protecting your customer rights and yout don't agree? Troll!

[Killer3000ad]

vertigo72 wrote...

Ultra Prism wrote...

I am glad that you liked the ending

in my point of view, I have united the galaxy both synthetic and organics to fight along side against Reapers ... then out of the blue, I am given three choices by Star God Child and his Space Magic ... seriously the Flow of story just went negative and backfired at me like Bioware just lost control of telling the story in the end ... (tried to be too excessive artistic) ... then have Normandy Seth Green flying away instead having like dialogues like LI saying "we must try to save shepard" or Shepard saying in the last moment "Everyone get out of here, back to homeworld, Joker get everyone out of here" Sacrifice that would be more realistic and logical

The point is, that organics and synthetics cannot have peace, synthetics are immensely superior because they are immortal. In my opinion it makes sense.

How many times do we have to point out that the Geth and Quarians can make peace? That the Quarians started it, BOTH TIMES? 

[Venturisection]

I haven't seen much arguement as to why the Ending is any good. The main problem is that regardless of what you do you still only have 3 choices of different colours. Its like right after the Cerberus base and the fleet CG Video they got bored and didn't bother to finish the game properly.

I don't know what the intention was but there is no way there is 16/17 endings there is only 3.
The Star Child is annoying and completely out of the Blue.
Harbinger says nothing hardly and given the speach Sovereign made it was the Reapers who were in charge of everything not some space faring Sparkly Fairy Child.

The choices are not artsy poetic or anything like that they are frankly dull and has to be said almost typical I had a feeling they would try this. The mainstream writing seems to just point and just having a miserable end. No thanks I'm sick of that type of ending. If I knew it was going to end like that I would never have started.

Nothing bothered me more than the sudden appearance of the Star Child it was too spiritual / Religious in significance and completely out of place. The Choices of how to kill Shepard were ridiculous.

The Relays exploded so therefore everything should be vaporised as per the Arrival. The whole fleets of many different species were stranded at the Barren and desimated planet of Earth. So one can only conclude everyone is going to starve to death. No one can move around  anymore and lots of people are stranded. The Normandy landing on a completely foreign planet was nonsense too and quite frankly unimaginative. Harsh words but sadly true. What on earth are they going to do on a  foreign planet with no Tech and won't EDI be having a crisis since the Normandy is Destroyed?

It was like watching a worse version of the Battlestar Galactica Ending where they give up technology to coexist with the Cylons and the primates then make some stupid religious reference. Yes they were stranded too.

[Mtcool]

The problem with a twist ending, which was poorly attempted in ME3, is that it has to be set up and alluded to throughout the story to where upon the reveal you have a sense that it was fitting. But here the twist is contradictory to the rest of the story. At the end it is stated as if it is an irrefutable fact that organics and synthetics cannot coexist. But throughout the rest of the story, characters like EDI and the Geth serve to prove the opposite, the fact that Leigon refers to himself as 'I' right before he dies; the fact that EDI is left unrestricted; that EDI states that she is afraid. All examples that synthetics can rise above their programming and are capable of complex emotions. They stand as examples that refute the Reapers. Where the reapers are the only threat present to organic life. And to say that it was alluded to because you fight synthetics but those are only ones influenced by the Reapers. So the posits of the starkid seem foreign and wrong. The twist is not so much a twist as a complete derailment of the entire plot.

[Lo Chiamavano Bulldozer]

vertigo72 wrote...

Wolven_Soul wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

13 pages and still nothing?

You know, I think I agree now. I just started my second playthrough (I liked the ending so I don't have problem with that, I can replay) and I already did the mission on Mars. Then there I found an ENORMOUS PLOTHOLE. When the shuttle lands on Mars there are little flags. Those flags are facing the WRONG DIRECTION!!!!! My experience is completely ruined by now and I'm deeply depressed.

What should I do: boycot, take refund or both maybe?

PS: It was 10 minutes ago  and I'm still crying. I'm so depressed .... and angry!

Wow...that was childish.

How do you dare! I'm here protecting your customer rights and yout don't agree? Troll!

[AsheraII]

Mixxer5 wrote...

Congratulations! It's 1million topic about "ending is good- you don't understand it!". Only thing that matters is- Bioware lied to us. They promised sth completely different. Even if I'd get 10k endings to CHOOSE at the end I'd be angry. Why? Because ending was supposed to be result of every choice I made during ME1-ME3. CONSEQUENTION of my choices.

Maybe that's what you wanted, it was certainly not what they promised. Next time you read something a Bioware developer said about a game that's not released yet, read very carefully: they rarely actually say what you think they say, but rather imply something indirectly, while leaving themselves enough space to end up doing something that's nearly the opposite. They're VERY fond of words like "might", "could" and "may". Very rarely are those words directly replacable with the word  "will". And even then, the meaning can usually go either way.

[Therefore_I_Am]

The only logic I can find behind the relays being destroyed is that they merely were dismantled when the beam hits them, not crashed into by an asteroid thus causing an atomic reaction.... but even then... yeah...

[Siven80]

Whats with the wierd black vibe things?

How did TIM get onto the citadel?

How did TIM seem to be able to control Shep and Anderson during the "chat"?

Spacechild....proper explanation plz.

Mass relays destroyed = dead systems.....

How the f**k did my teamates get onto the normandy so quick when they were on Earth?

Why is the Normandy fleeing ?

When Shep takes a breath in the rubble.....was he dreaming?

Is/Was he battling indocrination and so hallucinated?

WTF is this ending?

Probably many more questions and problems too, before the endings make sense to me.


I dont care about the 3 choices, or if Shep dies, i just want an ending that makes sense.
There are just too many moments on the ending that make you go WTF, how did that happen? that just make it so nonsensical.

Modifié par Siven80, 18 mars 2012 - 12:37 .

[Wolven_Soul]

vertigo72 wrote...

Wolven_Soul wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

13 pages and still nothing?

You know, I think I agree now. I just started my second playthrough (I liked the ending so I don't have problem with that, I can replay) and I already did the mission on Mars. Then there I found an ENORMOUS PLOTHOLE. When the shuttle lands on Mars there are little flags. Those flags are facing the WRONG DIRECTION!!!!! My experience is completely ruined by now and I'm deeply depressed.

What should I do: boycot, take refund or both maybe?

PS: It was 10 minutes ago  and I'm still crying. I'm so depressed .... and angry!

Wow...that was childish.

How do you dare! I'm here protecting your customer rights and yout don't agree? Troll!

Proving my point even more.  Very well, if that is what your going to degenerate into, I am done with you.

[vertigo72]

Siven80 wrote...

How did TIM get onto the citadel?

How did TIM seem to be able to control Shep and Anderson during the "chat"?

Spacechild....proper explanation plz.

Mass relays destroyed = dead systems.....

How the f**k did my teamates get onto the normandy so quick when they were on Earth?

Why is the Normandy fleeing ?

When Shep takes a breath in the rubble.....was he dreaming?

Is/Was he battling indocrination and so hallucinated?

WTF is this ending?

Probably many more questions and problems too, before the endings make sense to me.


I dont care about the 3 choices, or if Shep dies, i just want an ending that makes sense.
There are just too many moments on the ending that make you go WTF, how did that happen? that just make it so nonsensical.

I don't sure I understand all of them, but still:

TIM was indoctrinated, like Saren. Saren was traveling inside a Reaper, TIM tought he controlls the Reapers, so I don't know how exactly he did it, but anywas he was controlled by Reapers, so it isn't really matters. 

Spacechild is a friendly face that the Reaper's boss took from Shep memories to look more ... attractive?

Relays. I don't think they was destroyed like in Arrival, because a Supernova would kill everything, including Reapers who are just sitting here, in Sol system. If Reapers survive they can rebuild them, if not then FTL travel is slow but not too slow, in one-two Asari lifespan you can reconquest the galaxy. Also, the mass effect is well understood by now,  ppl can rebuild them.

Teammates. Not sure it was quick. Last time we seem them on the truck with Shep, then he passes out, then he travels on the Citadel, passes out again, then finally he dies and some more time passes probably. There is no evidence that this was instant.

Normandy is fleeng because they don't understand what's happening.

[pjotroos]

There have been many threads pointing out inconsistencies of the ending, both in style and in substance. To be honest, I didn't even read much of your post. But I wanted to let you know you're not wrong to like it. I'm happy you're happy with the game you got. I wish I could be, too.