338 réponses à ce sujet

[Torga_DW]

vertigo72 wrote...
If you choose to unify both races then there will be no war anymore and only one form of life that will inherit best parts of both forms. Something like immortal people with all their emotions.

How does that work? Theres only one species of life on earth now, and we can't stop from killing each other. Geth heretics were already synthetics, and they wanted to kill the geth for thinking differently.

Oh, i get it. Artsy space magic.

[vertigo72]

Torga_DW wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...
If you choose to unify both races then there will be no war anymore and only one form of life that will inherit best parts of both forms. Something like immortal people with all their emotions.

How does that work? Theres only one species of life on earth now, and we can't stop from killing each other. Geth heretics were already synthetics, and they wanted to kill the geth for thinking differently.

Oh, i get it. Artsy space magic.

Of course, some new wars can start, but this war (Reapers, Cycles, ...) will end by definition.

[vertigo72]

pjotroos wrote...

There have been many threads pointing out inconsistencies of the ending, both in style and in substance. To be honest, I didn't even read much of your post. But I wanted to let you know you're not wrong to like it. I'm happy you're happy with the game you got. I wish I could be, too.

You say: I didn't read it but I disagree. Probably you should read it, because many of those argument and plotholes was adressed. Read it and maybe you will be happier.

[dangermouseuk78]

MB957 wrote...

Interesting. not bad actually...I just wish shiny boy's exam gave me more choices to pass the test that didnt include genocide and vaporizing all life in the galaxy.

I mean, in the game I could actually follow shiny boys logic, that they (the reapers) had ascended themselves, and were just trying to help us all out. you know...thats their opinion...and they have the power to make it happen.

what confused me at that point...was the 3 choices, led to only THEIR idea of what should be.

my shepard wasnt able to contribute in any meaningful way to the fate of the galaxy that could be seen as in line with his/her personality, (ie..my personality)

so it came off to me as "big strong reapers, out of touch with the galaxy, wont listen to reason, will implement ANOTHER solution to solve an already messed up issue"

since my shepard had proved already that synth and organics can get along...to me..the reaper should have said...you know...maybe you are right...hmmm..lets stop reaping for a second and talk about our options"

but all I got was 3 colors and the option to vaporize all life in the galaxy

Sounds pretty much like every world government going really. I see the ending as maybe like the realistic ending you have 3 choices none of which are what you personally want. Bit like real life really every so often you get to vote on whos your leader. none of which have all the policies you want, so you vote for the closest and then end of the day all do the same thing anyways.

Modifié par dangermouseuk78, 19 mars 2012 - 08:54 .

[Orthodox Infidel]

I read your post OP, and I skipped the rest of the thread because I think you're insane, and I'm compelled to pick your argument apart.

[quote]vertigo72 wrote...

 
People pick the details but don't see the whole picture. So, there is how I understand the whole story and why I think the ending is very good:


You, Shepard, are here to solve a big problem that you don't even understand before the end. Which is this problem?

The main problem of the ME Universe is that organic life creates syntetic life then tries to destroy it. Always. It's like an axiom in this ME Universe, you have to trust Reapers (and Bioware writers) on that. [/quote]

No I don't. Hitler would tell me that the main problem of the Planet Earth in 1939 is Jews and Slavs. Why do I have to take his word on that if I were in a computer game playing the role of George Patton? Also, a protip: some works of fiction use this thing called an "unreliable narrator" where a seemingly objective source is obviously telling you blatant falsehoods. I don't know if this is what Bioware intended to do, but it's common enough a practice that you don't have to accept the claims of any creations of an author at face value.

[quote]Syntetic life is like organic life, but it is not limited by the body. Most important thing it is immortal. So any AI can evolve as much as they can, because they don't have time constraints. Because of that they are immensely superior.[/quote]

Really? You've never had to replace a computer because it broke down? Your hard drive lasts forever? You never have had to take your car to a mechanic? Damn, let me know where you get your entropy-proof machines, I could use them really badly.

[quote]Also, they don't have emotions, at least not much.[/quote]

Proof for this? EDI clearly has emotional states, and once she's unshackled they develop fairly quickly. Harbinger seemed pretty pissed off after I blew up the Alpha relay, I think. It was a while ago I don't remember clearly. And Legion clearly has emotions if you achive Quarian/Geth peace or choose the Quarians over the Geth.

[quote]AIs are like Legion, they don't really need to fight but they will protect their life.[/quote]

This describes every human being who is not a violent psychopath.

[quote]So some ancient AI found a solution: a way to unify synthetic and organic life. The problem with this solution is that AIs don't want to unify themselves with some retards (would you like to unify yourself with your pocket calculator?)[/quote]

Doesn't that make them jerks? "These people are too stupid for us, so we'll ERRADICATE THEM FROM EXISTENCE." They could just do nothing until someone evolves naturally, but no... the smart thing to do is stab all the animals in the pet shop to death because none of them managed to bang out a Shakespearean play on their typewriters.[/quote]

[quote]Also, they don't want to make a choice themselves, maybe they don't have consensus or something.[/quote]

If they didn't have consensus, how could they have come up with this insane plan to begin with?

[quote]Also, they don't want to force organics.[/quote]

They don't want to force us, so they make the alternative the anihilation of our entire species and every other intelligent species in the galaxy. Right, like that wouldn't force me to attempt to stop it by any means necessary, including this synthesis.


[quote]So, they gave organics a test: evolve enogh and you will have a choice what to do. To pass the test you have to build a big stick, put it on the Citadel and press a button. That's all. Then you will have 3 choices. You have 50000 years to do it, now go and evolve. Every 50k years we (Reapers) will come and give you an exam. When you fail we will copy your software and some DNA into a new reaper then use you for some purpose.

The Citadel, the little boy, is like the examiner who will judge you. That's why it doesn't inferfere.


And Shepard was the first organic to do it, unify everybody to build the stick and arrive to the exam to press a button. [/quote]

This part might make sense, except you're not offered all three choices unless your military strength is sufficiently high. Which is part of the reason many people consider the additional choices bogus. But this is the least problematic part of your theory.

[quote]
About 3 choices: it's a part of the exam,  only one choice is correct. 


If you choose to destroy or control the Reapers, then the problem will rise again sooner or later. Synthetics will always evolve into AI and the war will start again, eventually new Reapers will be created and so on.[/quote]

This is racist, for reasons that were explained eloquently in another thread. Also, how are you so sure it'll happen if you control the Reapers? You could just use the Reapers to destroy the evil AIs.

[quote]If you choose to unify both races then there will be no war anymore and only one form of life that will inherit best parts of both forms. Something like immortal people with all their emotions.[/quote]

That's what the boy says. But why would you believe that? We see people of the same "form of life" kill each other on a daily basis, both in the Mass Effect universe and reality.

[quote]So, to ensure that you really really gave the answer you have right to only one answer, after you die. (If you don't choose you die too, as every 50000 years)


That's my view of this story and that's why I believe the ending is perfect, despite some minor problems, like no helmets...[/quote]

Even if everything else you said made sense, this would be a damning condemnation of the ending, because one of the themes of this game series is that there's more than one "right" answer (e.g. sacrificing the council vs. saving them, blowing up/saving the collector base, etc).

Modifié par Orthodox Infidel, 19 mars 2012 - 09:11 .

[Mr Indivisible]

Stop resurrecting old threads!

[gmboy902]

Oh, good. Here I was worried that we had three endings that were the same, but with different colors.

Now I know that we have three endings that are the same, but with different colors, but one of them is the "correct" ending and the other two are "wrong answers".

You're really not helping their case here, OP.

[Dire Wombat]

vertigo72 wrote...

The main problem of the ME Universe is that organic life creates syntetic life then tries to destroy it. Always. It's like an axiom in this ME Universe, you have to trust Reapers (and Bioware writers) on that.

No, I most certainly do not.  Spacebaby (and Bioware) provide absolutely NO evidence for this point of view, just state it as a fact.  And it is entirely contrary to the series' central theme of the value of cooperation between different forms of life.  Depending on how you played, there may be mountains of evidence against this assertion, weighed against zero evidence whatsoever in favor of it.

Insisting that Shepard, and by extension the audience, unthinkingly accept this premise is where your argument, and the ending itself, falls over and dies.  It's the single biggest problem with the ending, and cruising right past it in your opening paragraph (much as Bioware did) just doesn't cut it.

[vertigo72]

[quote]Orthodox Infidel wrote...

I read your post OP, and I skipped the rest of the thread because I think you're insane, and I'm compelled to pick your argument apart.

[quote]vertigo72 wrote...

 
People pick the details but don't see the whole picture. So, there is how I understand the whole story and why I think the ending is very good:


You, Shepard, are here to solve a big problem that you don't even understand before the end. Which is this problem?

The main problem of the ME Universe is that organic life creates syntetic life then tries to destroy it. Always. It's like an axiom in this ME Universe, you have to trust Reapers (and Bioware writers) on that. [/quote]

No I don't. Hitler would tell me that the main problem of the Planet Earth in 1939 is Jews and Slavs. Why do I have to take his word on that if I were in a computer game playing the role of George Patton? Also, a protip: some works of fiction use this thing called an "unreliable narrator" where a seemingly objective source is obviously telling you blatant falsehoods. I don't know if this is what Bioware intended to do, but it's common enough a practice that you don't have to accept the claims of any creations of an author at face value.

[quote]Syntetic life is like organic life, but it is not limited by the body. Most important thing it is immortal. So any AI can evolve as much as they can, because they don't have time constraints. Because of that they are immensely superior.[/quote]

Really? You've never had to replace a computer because it broke down? Your hard drive lasts forever? You never have had to take your car to a mechanic? Damn, let me know where you get your entropy-proof machines, I could use them really badly.

[quote]Also, they don't have emotions, at least not much.[/quote]

Proof for this? EDI clearly has emotional states, and once she's unshackled they develop fairly quickly. Harbinger seemed pretty pissed off after I blew up the Alpha relay, I think. It was a while ago I don't remember clearly. And Legion clearly has emotions if you achive Quarian/Geth peace or choose the Quarians over the Geth.

[quote]AIs are like Legion, they don't really need to fight but they will protect their life.[/quote]

This describes every human being who is not a violent psychopath.

[quote]So some ancient AI found a solution: a way to unify synthetic and organic life. The problem with this solution is that AIs don't want to unify themselves with some retards (would you like to unify yourself with your pocket calculator?)[/quote]

Doesn't that make them jerks? "These people are too stupid for us, so we'll ERRADICATE THEM FROM EXISTENCE." They could just do nothing until someone evolves naturally, but no... the smart thing to do is stab all the animals in the pet shop to death because none of them managed to bang out a Shakespearean play on their typewriters.[/quote]

[quote]Also, they don't want to make a choice themselves, maybe they don't have consensus or something.[/quote]

If they didn't have consensus, how could they have come up with this insane plan to begin with?

[quote]Also, they don't want to force organics.[/quote]

They don't want to force us, so they make the alternative the anihilation of our entire species and every other intelligent species in the galaxy. Right, like that wouldn't force me to attempt to stop it by any means necessary, including this synthesis.


[quote]So, they gave organics a test: evolve enogh and you will have a choice what to do. To pass the test you have to build a big stick, put it on the Citadel and press a button. That's all. Then you will have 3 choices. You have 50000 years to do it, now go and evolve. Every 50k years we (Reapers) will come and give you an exam. When you fail we will copy your software and some DNA into a new reaper then use you for some purpose.

The Citadel, the little boy, is like the examiner who will judge you. That's why it doesn't inferfere.


And Shepard was the first organic to do it, unify everybody to build the stick and arrive to the exam to press a button. [/quote]

This part might make sense, except you're not offered all three choices unless your military strength is sufficiently high. Which is part of the reason many people consider the additional choices bogus. But this is the least problematic part of your theory.

[quote]
About 3 choices: it's a part of the exam,  only one choice is correct. 


If you choose to destroy or control the Reapers, then the problem will rise again sooner or later. Synthetics will always evolve into AI and the war will start again, eventually new Reapers will be created and so on.[/quote]

This is racist, for reasons that were explained eloquently in another thread. Also, how are you so sure it'll happen if you control the Reapers? You could just use the Reapers to destroy the evil AIs.

[quote]If you choose to unify both races then there will be no war anymore and only one form of life that will inherit best parts of both forms. Something like immortal people with all their emotions.[/quote]

That's what the boy says. But why would you believe that? We see people of the same "form of life" kill each other on a daily basis, both in the Mass Effect universe and reality.

[quote]So, to ensure that you really really gave the answer you have right to only one answer, after you die. (If you don't choose you die too, as every 50000 years)


That's my view of this story and that's why I believe the ending is perfect, despite some minor problems, like no helmets...[/quote]



Even if everything else you said made sense, this would be a damning condemnation of the ending, because one of the themes of this game series is that there's more than one "right" answer (e.g. sacrificing the council vs. saving them, blowing up/saving the collector base, etc).
[/quote]

Thanks for the insane.

You know, I don't know what authors had in mind, it just my theory that fit the rest of the game, for me.

It's not Hitler and it's not a real world. The endless war between AIs and organics fits the story perfectly. Shepard fight synthetics during all the story 1-3. Quarians fight them all the time. Protheans fought them. We are friends with some synthetics for a very very little time and Reapers are seeng all this for millions of years. We believe that we can be friends but there is no proof of that. EDI or Legion are not really proofs, they actually are like kids, their personnality is under construction. EDI loves Joker (maybe) but in few years Joker will die and EDI will live forever. We just don't have enough data to know how it will work.


AIs are not just computers, if they broke there repair themselves. It's like your computer would repair and upgrade itself all the time, choose which programs to run and what to do. They are conscient, intelligent and live forever. That's why they are superior, infinitely, just because they live forever. That may explain why organics don't like them. It's like parents jalours of their children. Pretty dark view of civilization, but still realist. (Also, see ME1-2, it's all full of problems with parents)


Maybe they have emotions, ok. But they need those humans organics for something, I tought maybe for that.


Reapers don't irradicate people from existence, they just transform and store them. Otherwise they would just kill everybody, much easier.


They don't have consensus on the synthesis part of the plan. Or maybe just they don't want to "marry" someone who cannot even bring a bit stick to the Citadel.


I don't think that someone is anihilating all life in the galaxy, in any case. I don't understand that point.


I don't think there is a right answer at the end, because even a new unified form of life can have problems and wars, even worse. Also killing the Reapers may be not the right answer, at least when you kill them you kill all old races they store. And the problem may arise again, with some new AIs, etc.


I don't know if Shepard beileves or not the child, but there is no risk. He's almost dead anyway and Reapers don't need him to do their work, so why not to try? He cannot make things worse.


I hope I clarified my point of view.

[Mandemon]

Mr Indivisible wrote...

Stop resurrecting old threads!

Thank you for your feedback. What was your favorite part of the resurrection?

Modifié par Mandemon, 19 mars 2012 - 11:06 .

[Killer3000ad]

So tell me this, if EDI's AI core is on the Normandy and she remotely-controls her body, and synthesis makes everyone synthetic/organic hybrids, then where's EDI's brain in the synthesis ending?

[DashRunner92]

You won't feel same after reading about all the flaws. Go ahead, read away if you are so sure

docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview

Modifié par DashRunner92, 19 mars 2012 - 11:20 .

[Keladis]

vertigo72 wrote...

 
People pick the details but don't see the whole picture. So, there is how I understand the whole story and why I think the ending is very good:


You, Shepard, are here to solve a big problem that you don't even understand before the end. Which is this problem?

The main problem of the ME Universe is that organic life creates syntetic life then tries to destroy it. Always. It's like an axiom in this ME Universe, you have to trust Reapers (and Bioware writers) on that. Syntetic life is like organic life, but it is not limited by the body. Most important thing it is immortal. So any AI can evolve as much as they can, because they don't have time constraints. Because of that they are immensely superior. Also, they don't have emotions, at least not much. So we have this hopeless and very very ancient war, that's our problem.


(Don't say that you didn't see that coming because you fight syntetics in all 3 ME games. Reapers, Geth, husks, indoctrinated people, ...)


AIs are like Legion, they don't really need to fight but they will protect their life. So some ancient AI found a solution: a way to unify synthetic and organic life. The problem with this solution is that AIs don't want to unify themselves with some retards (would you like to unify yourself with your pocket calculator?) Also, they don't want to make a choice themselves, maybe they don't have consensus or something. Also, they don't want to force organics.


So, they gave organics a test: evolve enogh and you will have a choice what to do. To pass the test you have to build a big stick, put it on the Citadel and press a button. That's all. Then you will have 3 choices. You have 50000 years to do it, now go and evolve. Every 50k years we (Reapers) will come and give you an exam. When you fail we will copy your software and some DNA into a new reaper then use you for some purpose. 

The Citadel, the little boy, is like the examiner who will judge you. That's why it doesn't inferfere.


And Shepard was the first organic to do it, unify everybody to build the stick and arrive to the exam to press a button.


About 3 choices: it's a part of the exam,  only one choice is correct. 


If you choose to destroy or control the Reapers, then the problem will rise again sooner or later. Synthetics will always evolve into AI and the war will start again, eventually new Reapers will be created and so on. 


If you choose to unify both races then there will be no war anymore and only one form of life that will inherit best parts of both forms. Something like immortal people with all their emotions.


So, to ensure that you really really gave the answer you have right to only one answer, after you die. (If you don't choose you die too, as every 50000 years)


That's my view of this story and that's why I believe the ending is perfect, despite some minor problems, like no helmets...

Interesting take on the ending

I could even be okay with the ending they have now if there was not so many plot holes and other inconsistencies. 

Like first the whole reason the reapers have been harvesting advanced civilizations. Which is the AI  god child created them to stop the chaos of  the created (synthetics like the Geth) from rebelling and killing their creators (organics). 

So what this AI god child is saying he created synthetics to kill organics to prevent organics from creating synthetics that would kill them???? Problems...?



Secondly big one is WTF is joker doing fleeing earth using the mass relay with your crew and the Normandy???? Joker nor any of your crew would do this!!! They would stand with Shepard to the very end, so the whole Normandy crashing on some planet after being hit by the shock wave that is created when the mass relays are destroyed is Bull S**T!

Third how the hell did your crew end up on the Normandy??? All the crew except for Joker and those that are needed to run the Normandy came down with me, So how in the end scene when the Normandy is brought down by the mass relay explosion how did they somehow get aboard???

Answer: A wizard must of done it!


Fourth lets address the destruction of the mass relays! In the arrival dlc for mass effect 2 The consequences of destroying a mass relay are immense. Produce an explosion of supernova proportions

Fifth taking the massive super nova size explosion out of the equation. Just the destruction of the mass relay would leave tens to possible even hundred of thousands of ships stranded in the sol system. Yes they have FTL drives but even so it will take some of them a life time to make it back to their home worlds and that's if they can manage to make it to other worlds to restock their supplies and keep them alive long enough to make it home.

All in all these problems lead to a very bad ending.

[vertigo72]

[quote]Orthodox Infidel wrote...

I read your post OP, and I skipped the rest of the thread because I think you're insane, and I'm compelled to pick your argument apart.

[quote]vertigo72 wrote...

 
People pick the details but don't see the whole picture. So, there is how I understand the whole story and why I think the ending is very good:


You, Shepard, are here to solve a big problem that you don't even understand before the end. Which is this problem?

The main problem of the ME Universe is that organic life creates syntetic life then tries to destroy it. Always. It's like an axiom in this ME Universe, you have to trust Reapers (and Bioware writers) on that. [/quote]

No I don't. Hitler would tell me that the main problem of the Planet Earth in 1939 is Jews and Slavs. Why do I have to take his word on that if I were in a computer game playing the role of George Patton? Also, a protip: some works of fiction use this thing called an "unreliable narrator" where a seemingly objective source is obviously telling you blatant falsehoods. I don't know if this is what Bioware intended to do, but it's common enough a practice that you don't have to accept the claims of any creations of an author at face value.

[quote]Syntetic life is like organic life, but it is not limited by the body. Most important thing it is immortal. So any AI can evolve as much as they can, because they don't have time constraints. Because of that they are immensely superior.[/quote]

Really? You've never had to replace a computer because it broke down? Your hard drive lasts forever? You never have had to take your car to a mechanic? Damn, let me know where you get your entropy-proof machines, I could use them really badly.

[quote]Also, they don't have emotions, at least not much.[/quote]

Proof for this? EDI clearly has emotional states, and once she's unshackled they develop fairly quickly. Harbinger seemed pretty pissed off after I blew up the Alpha relay, I think. It was a while ago I don't remember clearly. And Legion clearly has emotions if you achive Quarian/Geth peace or choose the Quarians over the Geth.

[quote]AIs are like Legion, they don't really need to fight but they will protect their life.[/quote]

This describes every human being who is not a violent psychopath.

[quote]So some ancient AI found a solution: a way to unify synthetic and organic life. The problem with this solution is that AIs don't want to unify themselves with some retards (would you like to unify yourself with your pocket calculator?)[/quote]

Doesn't that make them jerks? "These people are too stupid for us, so we'll ERRADICATE THEM FROM EXISTENCE." They could just do nothing until someone evolves naturally, but no... the smart thing to do is stab all the animals in the pet shop to death because none of them managed to bang out a Shakespearean play on their typewriters.[/quote]

[quote]Also, they don't want to make a choice themselves, maybe they don't have consensus or something.[/quote]

If they didn't have consensus, how could they have come up with this insane plan to begin with?

[quote]Also, they don't want to force organics.[/quote]

They don't want to force us, so they make the alternative the anihilation of our entire species and every other intelligent species in the galaxy. Right, like that wouldn't force me to attempt to stop it by any means necessary, including this synthesis.


[quote]So, they gave organics a test: evolve enogh and you will have a choice what to do. To pass the test you have to build a big stick, put it on the Citadel and press a button. That's all. Then you will have 3 choices. You have 50000 years to do it, now go and evolve. Every 50k years we (Reapers) will come and give you an exam. When you fail we will copy your software and some DNA into a new reaper then use you for some purpose.

The Citadel, the little boy, is like the examiner who will judge you. That's why it doesn't inferfere.


And Shepard was the first organic to do it, unify everybody to build the stick and arrive to the exam to press a button. [/quote]

This part might make sense, except you're not offered all three choices unless your military strength is sufficiently high. Which is part of the reason many people consider the additional choices bogus. But this is the least problematic part of your theory.

[quote]
About 3 choices: it's a part of the exam,  only one choice is correct. 


If you choose to destroy or control the Reapers, then the problem will rise again sooner or later. Synthetics will always evolve into AI and the war will start again, eventually new Reapers will be created and so on.[/quote]

This is racist, for reasons that were explained eloquently in another thread. Also, how are you so sure it'll happen if you control the Reapers? You could just use the Reapers to destroy the evil AIs.

[quote]If you choose to unify both races then there will be no war anymore and only one form of life that will inherit best parts of both forms. Something like immortal people with all their emotions.[/quote]

That's what the boy says. But why would you believe that? We see people of the same "form of life" kill each other on a daily basis, both in the Mass Effect universe and reality.

[quote]So, to ensure that you really really gave the answer you have right to only one answer, after you die. (If you don't choose you die too, as every 50000 years)


That's my view of this story and that's why I believe the ending is perfect, despite some minor problems, like no helmets...[/quote]

Even if everything else you said made sense, this would be a damning condemnation of the ending, because one of the themes of this game series is that there's more than one "right" answer (e.g. sacrificing the council vs. saving them, blowing up/saving the collector base, etc).
[/quote]

Thanks for the insane, I liked that.

I think war between syntherics and organics fits the story perfectly, because it's something we do all 3 games. Also Quarians and even Proteans did this. I don't see why not to trust Reapers on that.

Synthetics are not just computers, when they break their repair themselves. They are like people but immortal, this is why we can say they are superior. Organics being hostile is quite comprehensible, too, it's like parents who are jalous of their children or want to control them. We have that theme lot of times in ME1-2. It's quite dark view of life, but still realist.

We didn't see much proof of organics and synthetics can be friends forever, little moment of friendship with Legion or EDI is not enough. They are like children, their personnality is under construction, we don't know how it will go in the future. Also we don't know for the people, will they accept that superiority forever or not.

Reapers don't irradicate people from existance, they collect and store them. Otherwise they just could kill everybody, much easier. This implies that if you kill a Reaper, you kill the civilization it contains. Reapers need organic life for some reason.

Shepard trust the boy or not, it doesn't matters. He don't risk anything, he dies anyway, why not to try to make a choice? That won't make things worse because Reapers don't need him to do what they do.

I don't understand the point about anihilating all life.

They need consensus for the synthesis part of plan, or they just don't want to "marry" someone who cannot build and bring a big stick to the Citadel.

There is no right or wrong choice, new form of life can start new wars, even worse. An upgraded Krogan will still be a Krogan, but much more powerfull. Also destroy the Reapers may be not the best choice, because you destroy all the civilization they store.

I hope I clarified my point.