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[_Flipp_]

That's my view of this story and that's why I believe the ending is perfect, despite some minor problems, like no helmets...

To contribute with some useful to this thread - you really call missing helmets in space minor problems? Or any other holes at the end... I mean it's the climax of 100 hours of storytelling. And at those TEN MOST IMPORTANT MINUTES  they start to screw up the details, like missing helmets, humand signs on citadel and a "beaming crew" ? Seriously, whats wrong with them..

[vertigo72]

The Angry One wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

Now why it's garbage? I'm talking about the middle answer, Jooker, EDI, even plants was rewritten, they all have glowy bits.

So? Plants are still plants. Humans are still humans. Machines are still machines.
It literally changes nothing, other than everyone has glowy bits.

I'm sorry, I don't see it like this. There is no humans and no machines anymore, they are all unified. All life is unified, so nothing will evolve into some intellegent creature and create some new AI. It's a new form of life and their physical form is irrelevant.

Oh really? Is the Normandy now the same kind of lifeform as a human?
Can it reproduce?
Can it eat?
If not then IT'S STILL DIFFERENT.

Hybrid creates machine.
Machine has AI.
AI kills hybrids.

Nothing changed.

I should say AI, not machine. Sorry. EDI and Joker are the same. Hybrid don't need to create anything. But maybe you right, after all it's a new form of life and nobody knows how it will work. It's a leap of faith.

Modifié par vertigo72, 17 mars 2012 - 02:11 .

[NormanRawn]

vertigo72 wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

The mere fact the Quarians and Geth can be at peace with it each other refutes the Reapers' logic. Whatever later trials come, they galaxy deserves a chance to iron it out themselves rather than having a race of monsters forcibly incorporate them into Reaper form every 50,000 years. It all boils down to the Reapers thinking they know best, which they clearly don't.

We only seen few days of this peace, but Reapers logic is thousands or millions years old.

Reaper logic is not thousands of years old, it was written in the past few years. It's the writers at BioWare that had to come up with a reason for the Reapers being here, even though it was apparently beyond our comprehension.

They are human, and the logic they chose to come up with doesn't make sense to the majority of their audience and the universe they established.

They are human, and they wrote something that didi't add up, thats all, no galactic awareness by advanced Reaper minds, just human writers getting it wrong.

[Ryokun1989]

Doctor Uburian wrote...

But that's not what they promised.

So what?
It shouldn't make the ending bad, some fans always think developers promis them stuff becouse of some statements that are made in interviews. I just hate that.

[lafiite]

From a gamer perspective, I understand everyone's criticisms... Having 150 or so hours invested in your Shepard (a conservative estimate, for some) gives you the right to feel somewhat attached, and to care what happens. Froma story perspective though I was VERY IMPRESSED.

I was sure I would be destroying the reapers, but it came to it, I was pondering all the choices I had made over the last 3 games, I realized my Shepard would no more choose to destroy ALL synthetic life, than he would choose to brainwash an an entire species, enemy or no. What Bioware did was give that character the opportunity to MAKE those earlier choices... To have those experiences, and to THINK about constituted "life" in the ME world.

For my Shep synthesis was the only option that made sense. I think they crafted a maseful story with room to choose... And if you thought a bout each choice, it gave you great experiences for the "final" one. Yes they could have "locked"us in to one ending or the other based on previous choices... Th certainly were enough... But they had, we'd be having a very different conversation about the ending... And I I promise a LOT more people would be upset... Players both new and old.

[vertigo72]

_Flipp_ wrote...

That's my view of this story and that's why I believe the ending is perfect, despite some minor problems, like no helmets...

To contribute with some useful to this thread - you really call missing helmets in space minor problems? Or any other holes at the end... I mean it's the climax of 100 hours of storytelling. And at those TEN MOST IMPORTANT MINUTES  they start to screw up the details, like missing helmets, humand signs on citadel and a "beaming crew" ? Seriously, whats wrong with them..

Well, they managed to have artificial gravitation, mass effect fields and FTL travel. Why not some stasis field on the Citadel? For the beauty of the view?

[Ryokun1989]

_Flipp_ wrote...

That's my view of this story and that's why I believe the ending is perfect, despite some minor problems, like no helmets...

To contribute with some useful to this thread - you really call missing helmets in space minor problems? Or any other holes at the end... I mean it's the climax of 100 hours of storytelling. And at those TEN MOST IMPORTANT MINUTES  they start to screw up the details, like missing helmets, humand signs on citadel and a "beaming crew" ? Seriously, whats wrong with them..

Dude you didn't get the ending at all if you think they forgot to put on his helmet in that scene. >_>

[Quietness]

Eh, Red Space magic is a lie... Edi was still alive and fine at the end of mine despite picking it. Plot holes are plot holes

[Bezabazabobo]

Edi was alive in destroy?

[_Flipp_]

Ryokun1989 wrote...

_Flipp_ wrote...

That's my view of this story and that's why I believe the ending is perfect, despite some minor problems, like no helmets...

To contribute with some useful to this thread - you really call missing helmets in space minor problems? Or any other holes at the end... I mean it's the climax of 100 hours of storytelling. And at those TEN MOST IMPORTANT MINUTES  they start to screw up the details, like missing helmets, humand signs on citadel and a "beaming crew" ? Seriously, whats wrong with them..

Dude you didn't get the ending at all if you think they forgot to put on his helmet in that scene. >_>

Would you mind explaining it to me then? Why are there human signs up there? Is there actually some kind of stasis field? Didnt notice it then. How did the crew come back on the Normandy? And dude remember we are discussing here under the assumption that this ending is real and not just hallucination

[Mixxer5]

Bezabazabobo wrote...

Edi was alive in destroy?

EDI is alive, squadmates that run with me to conduit are on some wild planet, Joker is running from the battle. And so on.

[billida]

i just can't understand how synthesis can appear as the better solution.

For 3 entire games, we've learned about diversity, cultural, biological differences and how to live together in peace.
The synthesis ending wipes all that in 10 secondes, making everyone the same, denying all why we fought.

Chaos is evolution, it's life itself.
Synthesis will offer no evolution more 'as says starchild, the "final stage of evolution", it offers no hope for something else.
It's death itself to me. And more, it is the only ending where the reaprs go unharmed.

[vertigo72]

lafiite wrote...

From a gamer perspective, I understand everyone's criticisms... Having 150 or so hours invested in your Shepard (a conservative estimate, for some) gives you the right to feel somewhat attached, and to care what happens. Froma story perspective though I was VERY IMPRESSED.

I was sure I would be destroying the reapers, but it came to it, I was pondering all the choices I had made over the last 3 games, I realized my Shepard would no more choose to destroy ALL synthetic life, than he would choose to brainwash an an entire species, enemy or no. What Bioware did was give that character the opportunity to MAKE those earlier choices... To have those experiences, and to THINK about constituted "life" in the ME world.

For my Shep synthesis was the only option that made sense. I think they crafted a maseful story with room to choose... And if you thought a bout each choice, it gave you great experiences for the "final" one. Yes they could have "locked"us in to one ending or the other based on previous choices... Th certainly were enough... But they had, we'd be having a very different conversation about the ending... And I I promise a LOT more people would be upset... Players both new and old.

150 hours? It's more like 500 for me for ME2 alone, according to Steam. (Why Origin don't have time counter?)

Great to see someone who like the story. I was very affraid of the ending like "Shepard and Liara and many little blue children". 

[_Flipp_]

vertigo72 wrote...

_Flipp_ wrote...

That's my view of this story and that's why I believe the ending is perfect, despite some minor problems, like no helmets...

To contribute with some useful to this thread - you really call missing helmets in space minor problems? Or any other holes at the end... I mean it's the climax of 100 hours of storytelling. And at those TEN MOST IMPORTANT MINUTES  they start to screw up the details, like missing helmets, humand signs on citadel and a "beaming crew" ? Seriously, whats wrong with them..

Well, they managed to have artificial gravitation, mass effect fields and FTL travel. Why not some stasis field on the Citadel? For the beauty of the view?

Well I can give u that.- still doesn't explain the human signs ( I could even live with them, since it really lacks of any explanation ) - and then my most favourite question - how the **** did the crew get back to normandy? And why? After 100 hours of gaming they thought " hey let's ditch shepard for the sake of our own lives! " ?!

[GholaHalleck]

Well, why not, I'll bite.

1. That galaxy wide civilization we've been creating? Dead. No relays= no system hopping. Everyone is stuck in whatever system they're currently in. everyone on deep space stations, in mass transit, or in a system with no natural life sustaining planets? Dead. In EVERY ENDING.

1a. Every person on that armada we built, are now stuck in Sol system with no way to resupply. Unless the quarians brought some agricultural ships to a battle (They didn't, that would be stupid) every turian and quarian will die of starvation.

2. The endings we get don't take into account ANY of the choices we make in any of the games. so long as you somehow got enough points, you get the same options as every other shepard. The shepard that shot Moridn in the back? Same option as the shepard that cured the genophange. We were promised that our choices would matter. None of them matter
outside of them adding up to a certain number of points. get enough
points in any way, and you unlock the two "TiM" endings. The journey to
how you get those endings means nothing to them. sure, they may mean
something if there are other games, but this is the ENDING of the
Shepard era. these choices should not be up the air, where we have to
debate like we're pretentious English majors.

3. Both Control and Synthisis endings turn Shepard into the Illusive Man. Who husked his own people (Synthisis) Or wanted to control the Reapers for humanity's benefit (control, duh.) When two of your three endings have you turning into the most vocal villain of the series (the reapers are the big ominous ones, TiM was always the loudmouth snake one) things have gone awry!

4. Joker and your team abandon you, and the fight on earth. Unless I missed the memo where we terraformed one of Jupiter's moons, they aren't in Sol system, aren't anywhere NEAR sol system when they crash. Joker and the team would not do this.

5. Shepard has the option of disproving every reason the Starchild has for the Reapers, but the choices don't change. AI's are now capable of love, emotion and being their own people. they have souls now. the geth can be reasoned with, and do not wish to destroy their creators, edi and joker are in love. the Synthetics of this cycle will NOT destroy all organic life. it's been proven that synthetics can be reasoned with, and aren't the giant ball of murder machine the Reapers are. The Starchild even admits it's solution is no longer viable.

6. ???

7. Profit.

Modifié par GholaHalleck, 17 mars 2012 - 02:20 .

[pharsti]

vertigo72 wrote...

pharsti wrote...

You can read what is wrong with the ending everywhere, literally, no need for me to go into details here.

But, to everyone who is perfectly fine with the ending i say this.
First, right now i am so envious of you its not even funny. Its good that you liked it. Its awesome that you can ignore some.... minor inconsistencies and rationalize the ending, its good that you didnt expect anything of what they promised... me? I can not.

Second, since you liked it.... so.... what was up with the Normandy and your squad >_>?

Normandy and squad was transported by a blast of green quantum ionic FTL field into a parallel universe. Or maybe it was Shepard's last dream, in fact they all dead. Or maybe some time passed between Shepard's death and their escape. Or maybe ... Why people want everything explained like in scool? Use your imagination. For me it's not very important because it happens after the logical end of the story.

I want everything explained because its a nonsensical plothole, i want it explained because they told us we wouldnt be left with more questions than answers, i want it explained because if all i had to do was imagine it i wouldnt have given them my money and would have just imagined my way throu this pile of s.... suck.

Seriously, youre fine with it, nice, good for you, all it means is you can rationalize things and dont care that they didnt give you what was promised and that every journey, no matter how different your Shepard is, ends exactly the same.

Lazy writing is lazy, all they did was pile nonsensical crap and then let the player come up with his own fanfiction to invent his own ending. You did it, you were satisfied with it, so i envy you. Simple.

[Andronic0s]

Why are you taking what the Starchild says at face value? he shows no evidence of what he says as being true, if anything recent evidence contradicts him which would require more information and more time to arrive at a new "solution", besides what is stopping the new Synthesis race from creating more AIs? yeah they are a new combo life form but do they not feel curiosity anymore? do they gained the ability of having infinite wisdom by making millions of calculations per second like EDI does? if so then it seems they lost a large chuck of their "humanity" (for lack of a better term) what was the point of saving them again?

Maybe the reapers are the first AI that rose against their creators and wiped out life and they just calculate that it will happen again until all life dies, but that would imply that the milky way is the only tiny enclave of organic life left since in all other of the billions of galaxies AIs where created and wiped out all life??

I would have preferred they left the reapers motivations as something we "could not possibly comprehend" and got a line from a reaper or something simply stating "if you end us all life in the galaxy will eventually perish, make your choice Shepard"

[_Flipp_]

1a. Every person on that armada we built, are now stuck in Sol system with no way to resupply. Unless the quarians brought some agricultural ships to a battle (They didn't, that would be stupid) every turian and quarian will die of starvation.

Don't worry they don't starve... most likely that shockwave will have wiped them all out...feel better now?

[815Sox]

Yes. This is pretty much how l look at it. I have explained this time and time again. You essentially spread Shepards essence throughout the universe, have his energy serve as the basis for a new DNA and usher in the next evolution of life.

No big deal.

[vertigo72]

billida wrote...

i just can't understand how synthesis can appear as the better solution.

For 3 entire games, we've learned about diversity, cultural, biological differences and how to live together in peace.
The synthesis ending wipes all that in 10 secondes, making everyone the same, denying all why we fought.

Chaos is evolution, it's life itself.
Synthesis will offer no evolution more 'as says starchild, the "final stage of evolution", it offers no hope for something else.
It's death itself to me. And more, it is the only ending where the reaprs go unharmed.

Yes there is diversity, but all organics are organics and all synthetis are synthetics. Diversity is whithin the same form of life. There is now a new form of life that will have its own diversity. Don't forget that we have access to all the prvious civilizations stored in Reapers too. I think it can be ok for the diversity. And maybe it will be chaos too, we don't know. All we know is that before we had this endless war, 50000 cycle and nothing evolved.

[novaseeker]

Why, then, is the ending that requires the highest effective EMS score (requiring MP) a version of destroy (i.e., the Shepard breath cutscene)? If that isn't the "best" ending, it would be awfully odd from the game design perspective to make it the hardest to get.

Modifié par novaseeker, 17 mars 2012 - 02:22 .

[vertigo72]

815Sox wrote...

Yes. This is pretty much how l look at it. I have explained this time and time again. You essentially spread Shepards essence throughout the universe, have his energy serve as the basis for a new DNA and usher in the next evolution of life.

No big deal.

Not sure about Shepard, we can imagine many things. For me it's just that it a final answer. You only have one choice, you should have no doubts. 

[anlk92]

vertigo72 wrote...

The main problem of the ME Universe is that organic life creates syntetic life then tries to destroy it. Always. It's like an axiom in this ME Universe, you have to trust Reapers (and Bioware writers) on that. 

Wrong. Genocidal starchilds are the main problem of the ME Universe.

So what you're saying is that they can feed us whatever bs they want at the last minutes of the story despite the fact that there are many things contradicting it and we should just be ok with it. I'm sure you'll understand if the majority of players are not willing to do that.

815Sox wrote...

Yes. This is pretty much how l look at it. I have explained this time and time again. You essentially spread Shepards essence throughout the universe, have his energy serve as the basis for a new DNA and usher in the next evolution of life.

No big deal.

Yeah, no big deal:wizard:

Modifié par anlk92, 17 mars 2012 - 02:25 .

[Yakko77]

I technically got the ending I want, Reapers destroyed, mission accomplished.

It's just that there was no real closure for the characters... NONE!

[vertigo72]

novaseeker wrote...

Why, then, is the ending that requires the highest effective EMS score (requiring MP) a version of destroy (i.e., the Shepard breath cutscene)? If that isn't the "best" ending, it would be awfully odd from the game design perspective to make it the hardest to get.

Sorry, I don't know. I just played the synthesis one and it makes perfect sense. Maybe there is some narratiive that explains that, but I didn't play it.