338 réponses à ce sujet

[vertigo72]

sadako wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

billida wrote...

bah. If you're ok with 3 depressing endings, good for you. I just can"t identify myself with any if these choices, which is unfortunately the point of any RPG, and was the point of ME till the 10 last minutes.

I chose red by default.

Honestly, it's not depressive. Really. You do something great and you die like a godless mega-hero. Everybody dies, but not everybody can acomplish such a great thing. In fact, we don't even know if Shepard dies, he just leaps in some kind of light. Not so bad, better then die at 80 from cancer or hearth failure.

Same deconstruction animation from ME2 when one of the settler's got processed into Human Reaper. He didn't die. Riiigghttt. Damn my logic.

He did die, at least he is just "stored" somewhere. I don't think Reapers trust organics that much to keep them alive in some form. Well, maybe some simulation, like in Matrix but we don't see any proof of that in the game. 

[Genera1Nemesis]

Have to say I agree with the OP that the galaxy is actually in a much better position following Shep's actions than they were before (unless you chose destroy ending, because it only delays the inevitable but doesn't prevent it)

Nad I'll also say that to call the energy the Crucible unleashes as 'space magic' is just downright absurd. Is that really when the game lost all realism for you? It is a science fiction story; and I can honestly say that after watching every single episode of Star Trek in every iteration that there have been far LESS believable things done in sci-fi. So if you are a true science fiction fan then you have definately seen much less believable things than what the Crucible does. Why does your suspension of disbelief end there and not when they talk about Biotics, or something equally absurd when we base things in reality?

Modifié par Genera1Nemesis, 17 mars 2012 - 03:04 .

[T-0pel]

I am not really gonna talk about most of the issues because other people adressed them already. So with that out of the way here is my main problem:

The AI god thing states that reapers are his solution, not some kind of test. The crucible is not his way of testing organics, it is stated that it is a device that was designed by every galactic civilization and every cycle improved upon it. It is something the god AI did not forsee in all its "perfect and inevetable logic".
And the AI clearly states that you maikng it to the citadel and connecting the crucible changed somthing and it proves that his cycle wont work ANYMORE!
So how can you belive this premise synthetics versus organics without question? The AI clearly made a mistake, organics eventually found a way to overcome his cycle. Maybe we are also able to coexist with synthetics? Maybe Shepards intervention with the Geth forever changed everything in synthetics way of thinking? Dont we have the right to tell him that it might have taken milions of years but eventually we managed to overcome his premise?
Just think about it please...

[Sir_Alric]

vertigo72 wrote...
I'm sorry, I don't see it like this. There is no humans and no machines anymore, they are all unified. All life is unified, so nothing will evolve into some intellegent creature and create some new AI. It's a new form of life and their physical form is irrelevant.

Maybe it's irrilevant to you, but it's rilevant to me. The thing is, humans were fine being humans. Asari were fine being asari. Turians were fine being turians. Krogan were fine being krogan, ecc. ecc. The reason why they were fighting is because they wanted to preserve themselves, not because they wished to become something else. Nobody ever asked to evolve! They just wanted to stop the reapers so that they could  just go back home and live their lives without having to worry about the reapers tying to wipe them out. That's all.

But no, you had to go and force everyone to change into a completely different kind of being, all because Starchild  (the same guy who made the reapers harvest countless organic civilizations) says it's a good thing. In essence, you force every one (whitout asking them first of course) to follow the reapers logic. That's wrong no matter how you look at it.

[Szelenas]

Mixxer5 wrote...

Bezabazabobo wrote...

Edi was alive in destroy?

EDI is alive, squadmates that run with me to conduit are on some wild planet, Joker is running from the battle. And so on.

yeah,sure,alive
 

[vertigo72]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Have to say I agree with the OP that the galaxy is actually in a much better position following Shep's actions than they were before (unless you chose destroy ending, because it only delays the inevitable but doesn't prevent it)

Nad I'll also say that to call the energy the Crucible unleashes as 'space magic' is just downright absurd. Is that really when the game lost all realism for you? It is a science fiction story; and I can honestly say that after watching every single episode of Star Trek in every iteration that there have been far LESS believable things done in sci-fi. So if you are a true science fiction fan then you have definately seen much less believable things than what the Crucible does. Why does your suspension of disbelief end there and not when they talk about Biotics, or something equally absurd when we base things in reality?

Realism? As I said before, this is too late to ask for realism. You played 150 hours of game full of AI, Mass Effect fields, eezo and such stuff (which are all very well written and explained  pile of bs) and now you don't trust this one? Reapers had millions of years to invent if, somehow it works.

[GholaHalleck]

vertigo72 wrote...

GholaHalleck wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

billida wrote...

i just can't understand how synthesis can appear as the better solution.

For 3 entire games, we've learned about diversity, cultural, biological differences and how to live together in peace.
The synthesis ending wipes all that in 10 secondes, making everyone the same, denying all why we fought.

Chaos is evolution, it's life itself.
Synthesis will offer no evolution more 'as says starchild, the "final stage of evolution", it offers no hope for something else.
It's death itself to me. And more, it is the only ending where the reaprs go unharmed.

Yes there is diversity, but all organics are organics and all synthetis are synthetics. Diversity is whithin the same form of life. There is now a new form of life that will have its own diversity. Don't forget that we have access to all the prvious civilizations stored in Reapers too. I think it can be ok for the diversity. And maybe it will be chaos too, we don't know. All we know is that before we had this endless war, 50000 cycle and nothing evolved.

Because we already brought peace to the galaxy, and twisting everyone's DNA to give them TiM eyes is wrong.

It also doesn't change anything.

Now, instead of synthetics wiping out organics, it'll be the Synganics wiping each other out for other reasons. Geth fought other geth before remember? and organics didn't need a reason to shoot each other in the face. it changes nothing. 

And who's to say the Synganics won't make more pure synthetic life that wipes them out for being "Impure"? It's faulty thinking.

First, they will not be synthetics, nor organics, they will be something else. Second, synthetics didn't wipe other synthetics for millions years, so why start now? And nobody says it will be perfect, but at least it solve present problem and evolution can continue.

that's why I called them "Synganics."

Regardless, it won't change anything. Unless the merger completly rewires the organics minds, the same problems will present themselves. Racism will still exist. Wars will stil exist. the only thing Synthisis does is adds Synthetics to the gene pool. If that. Geth fought other geth. Legions loyitly mission in ME2 tells us so.

As for synthetics wiping out other synthetics... Why not? Why do the reapers not take down the synthetics instead of dropping the organics every 50k cycles? If they really cared for the Organics like they claim too, why not just shut the synthetics down instead? 

And evolution would have contiuned regardless! The reapers only kill off the advanced races. humans, salarians, turians and asari? all around for the last cycle of purging. Javik tells us so. Hell he loves his salarian livers raw too.

It still means The Illusive Man was right. We prove Tim right in all but Destroy.

[Genera1Nemesis]

T-0pel wrote...

I am not really gonna talk about most of the issues because other people adressed them already. So with that out of the way here is my main problem:

The AI god thing states that reapers are his solution, not some kind of test. The crucible is not his way of testing organics, it is stated that it is a device that was designed by every galactic civilization and every cycle improved upon it. It is something the god AI did not forsee in all its "perfect and inevetable logic".
And the AI clearly states that you maikng it to the citadel and connecting the crucible changed somthing and it proves that his cycle wont work ANYMORE!
So how can you belive this premise synthetics versus organics without question? The AI clearly made a mistake, organics eventually found a way to overcome his cycle. Maybe we are also able to coexist with synthetics? Maybe Shepards intervention with the Geth forever changed everything in synthetics way of thinking? Dont we have the right to tell him that it might have taken milions of years but eventually we managed to overcome his premise?
Just think about it please...

They never said it was designed by other species that came before, just that they had the blueprints and tried to build it themselves. What I took from that is that the Crucible is a failsafe in case the Reaper solution wouldn't work anymore; Shep proved that by not only uniting the galaxy to build the thing, but they also had to be able to dock it with Citadel for it to work; something no previous cycle had ever been able to do before because the Citadel was always the first thing lost.

They never gave a clear picture as to who designed Crucible; just that the race previous to Protheans tried to buld it and failed just as the Protheans had. In this I believe is the clue; Catalyst does not activate unless Crucible combines with Citadel...thus changing the solution. I think the Crucible is as old as the Reapers themselves; and was meant to show that should someone build and complete it (like Shep did by uniting the galaxy) then the Reapers were no longer a vaible option because they could be beaten. Not that they would have been beaten; just that they could have been beaten.

[Genera1Nemesis]

vertigo72 wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Have to say I agree with the OP that the galaxy is actually in a much better position following Shep's actions than they were before (unless you chose destroy ending, because it only delays the inevitable but doesn't prevent it)

Nad I'll also say that to call the energy the Crucible unleashes as 'space magic' is just downright absurd. Is that really when the game lost all realism for you? It is a science fiction story; and I can honestly say that after watching every single episode of Star Trek in every iteration that there have been far LESS believable things done in sci-fi. So if you are a true science fiction fan then you have definately seen much less believable things than what the Crucible does. Why does your suspension of disbelief end there and not when they talk about Biotics, or something equally absurd when we base things in reality?

Realism? As I said before, this is too late to ask for realism. You played 150 hours of game full of AI, Mass Effect fields, eezo and such stuff (which are all very well written and explained  pile of bs) and now you don't trust this one? Reapers had millions of years to invent if, somehow it works.

What? I was defending the suspension of disbelief, not trying to say it wasn't realisitc. Did you read my post?

[vertigo72]

Szelenas wrote...

Mixxer5 wrote...

Bezabazabobo wrote...

Edi was alive in destroy?

EDI is alive, squadmates that run with me to conduit are on some wild planet, Joker is running from the battle. And so on.

yeah,sure,alive
 

It's difficult to discuss about number of endings which someone who pretend, without any arguments, that there is a best one. In mine she survives, but I don't think it's the only possible ending, you still have a choice.

[Szelenas]

T-0pel wrote...

I am not really gonna talk about most of the issues because other people adressed them already. So with that out of the way here is my main problem:

The AI god thing states that reapers are his solution, not some kind of test. The crucible is not his way of testing organics, it is stated that it is a device that was designed by every galactic civilization and every cycle improved upon it. It is something the god AI did not forsee in all its "perfect and inevetable logic".
And the AI clearly states that you maikng it to the citadel and connecting the crucible changed somthing and it proves that his cycle wont work ANYMORE!
So how can you belive this premise synthetics versus organics without question? The AI clearly made a mistake, organics eventually found a way to overcome his cycle. Maybe we are also able to coexist with synthetics? Maybe Shepards intervention with the Geth forever changed everything in synthetics way of thinking? Dont we have the right to tell him that it might have taken milions of years but eventually we managed to overcome his premise?
Just think about it please...

finally,some can think logically

[vertigo72]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Have to say I agree with the OP that the galaxy is actually in a much better position following Shep's actions than they were before (unless you chose destroy ending, because it only delays the inevitable but doesn't prevent it)

Nad I'll also say that to call the energy the Crucible unleashes as 'space magic' is just downright absurd. Is that really when the game lost all realism for you? It is a science fiction story; and I can honestly say that after watching every single episode of Star Trek in every iteration that there have been far LESS believable things done in sci-fi. So if you are a true science fiction fan then you have definately seen much less believable things than what the Crucible does. Why does your suspension of disbelief end there and not when they talk about Biotics, or something equally absurd when we base things in reality?

Realism? As I said before, this is too late to ask for realism. You played 150 hours of game full of AI, Mass Effect fields, eezo and such stuff (which are all very well written and explained  pile of bs) and now you don't trust this one? Reapers had millions of years to invent if, somehow it works.

What? I was defending the suspension of disbelief, not trying to say it wasn't realisitc. Did you read my post?

Sorry, you right. IFF failure. Should take some air  )

[T-0pel]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

T-0pel wrote...

I am not really gonna talk about most of the issues because other people adressed them already. So with that out of the way here is my main problem:

The AI god thing states that reapers are his solution, not some kind of test. The crucible is not his way of testing organics, it is stated that it is a device that was designed by every galactic civilization and every cycle improved upon it. It is something the god AI did not forsee in all its "perfect and inevetable logic".
And the AI clearly states that you maikng it to the citadel and connecting the crucible changed somthing and it proves that his cycle wont work ANYMORE!
So how can you belive this premise synthetics versus organics without question? The AI clearly made a mistake, organics eventually found a way to overcome his cycle. Maybe we are also able to coexist with synthetics? Maybe Shepards intervention with the Geth forever changed everything in synthetics way of thinking? Dont we have the right to tell him that it might have taken milions of years but eventually we managed to overcome his premise?
Just think about it please...

They never said it was designed by other species that came before, just that they had the blueprints and tried to build it themselves. What I took from that is that the Crucible is a failsafe in case the Reaper solution wouldn't work anymore; Shep proved that by not only uniting the galaxy to build the thing, but they also had to be able to dock it with Citadel for it to work; something no previous cycle had ever been able to do before because the Citadel was always the first thing lost.

They never gave a clear picture as to who designed Crucible; just that the race previous to Protheans tried to buld it and failed just as the Protheans had. In this I believe is the clue; Catalyst does not activate unless Crucible combines with Citadel...thus changing the solution. I think the Crucible is as old as the Reapers themselves; and was meant to show that should someone build and complete it (like Shep did by uniting the galaxy) then the Reapers were no longer a vaible option because they could be beaten. Not that they would have been beaten; just that they could have been beaten.

As revealed by the Prothean VI
Vendetta, the Crucible wasn't originally designed by the Protheans, but
was rather the work of other species throughout the cycles of
extinction stretching back millions of years, improving upon it. The
Protheans were close to deploying it when a group of separatists thought
to control the Reapers rather than destroy them.

That is what the VI said.

[crazygrinner]

vertigo72 wrote...

spartan5127 wrote...

If there is a problem between organics and synthetics is not a hardware one, it is mental one.
They think differently. To think that make everyone have the same dna will change anything about this conflict is not in line with what will actually happen.

Unless synthesis changes their way of thinking, in which case, I had no right to make the decision because I am effectively destroying who they are.

This is disregarding the fact that synthetics and organics actually can get along and can work out their differences the same way that any two peoples can work out their differences

After synthesis there will be no organics nor synthetics. There will be a completely new form of life. That's the great point of the ending. You are like half god, you create new life but don't exactly know how it will work. Nobody knows. You litteraly jump into this solution. 

So let me get this straight.  You're perfectly fine with playing Space-Jesus in a Military Sci-Fi story?  Because that just seems sketchy to me.

Also I find you're profile picture of a volus appropriate.  Brings back lovely memories of ME2.

Modifié par crazygrinner, 17 mars 2012 - 03:15 .

[Szelenas]

vertigo72 wrote...

Szelenas wrote...

Mixxer5 wrote...

Bezabazabobo wrote...

Edi was alive in destroy?

EDI is alive, squadmates that run with me to conduit are on some wild planet, Joker is running from the battle. And so on.

yeah,sure,alive
 

It's difficult to discuss about number of endings which someone who pretend, without any arguments, that there is a best one. In mine she survives, but I don't think it's the only possible ending, you still have a choice.

"EDI is presumably destroyed if Shepard chooses to destroy all synthetic life at the conclusion of the game. However, if Shepard chooses the control or synthesis endings, EDI will be present with Joker for the ending cutscene if Shepard had motivated them to be together before."

[Genera1Nemesis]

Szelenas wrote...

T-0pel wrote...

I am not really gonna talk about most of the issues because other people adressed them already. So with that out of the way here is my main problem:

The AI god thing states that reapers are his solution, not some kind of test. The crucible is not his way of testing organics, it is stated that it is a device that was designed by every galactic civilization and every cycle improved upon it. It is something the god AI did not forsee in all its "perfect and inevetable logic".
And the AI clearly states that you maikng it to the citadel and connecting the crucible changed somthing and it proves that his cycle wont work ANYMORE!
So how can you belive this premise synthetics versus organics without question? The AI clearly made a mistake, organics eventually found a way to overcome his cycle. Maybe we are also able to coexist with synthetics? Maybe Shepards intervention with the Geth forever changed everything in synthetics way of thinking? Dont we have the right to tell him that it might have taken milions of years but eventually we managed to overcome his premise?
Just think about it please...

finally,some can think logically

lol, the Geth are but ONE form of synthetic life; not the defining ONE. Cerberus was designing a bunch of different AI's throughout the games; just because the Geth were all 'hugs and kisses' doesn't mean another synthetic life form wouldn't come to the same conclusion that Catalyst based his logic on.

Keep in mind the Geth Heretics CHOSE to join Sovereign because he offered them technology to help build the Geth network hub near Rannoch. They CHOSE to kill organics in the name of technological advancement. Sovereign always kinda said he hated the Geth and the were but a means to an end (cannon-fodder to recapture Citadel) Just the fact alone that a few Geth would come to this conclusion that killing organics for advancement is a good idea proves Catalyst's position.

[Genera1Nemesis]

T-0pel wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

T-0pel wrote...

I am not really gonna talk about most of the issues because other people adressed them already. So with that out of the way here is my main problem:

The AI god thing states that reapers are his solution, not some kind of test. The crucible is not his way of testing organics, it is stated that it is a device that was designed by every galactic civilization and every cycle improved upon it. It is something the god AI did not forsee in all its "perfect and inevetable logic".
And the AI clearly states that you maikng it to the citadel and connecting the crucible changed somthing and it proves that his cycle wont work ANYMORE!
So how can you belive this premise synthetics versus organics without question? The AI clearly made a mistake, organics eventually found a way to overcome his cycle. Maybe we are also able to coexist with synthetics? Maybe Shepards intervention with the Geth forever changed everything in synthetics way of thinking? Dont we have the right to tell him that it might have taken milions of years but eventually we managed to overcome his premise?
Just think about it please...

They never said it was designed by other species that came before, just that they had the blueprints and tried to build it themselves. What I took from that is that the Crucible is a failsafe in case the Reaper solution wouldn't work anymore; Shep proved that by not only uniting the galaxy to build the thing, but they also had to be able to dock it with Citadel for it to work; something no previous cycle had ever been able to do before because the Citadel was always the first thing lost.

They never gave a clear picture as to who designed Crucible; just that the race previous to Protheans tried to buld it and failed just as the Protheans had. In this I believe is the clue; Catalyst does not activate unless Crucible combines with Citadel...thus changing the solution. I think the Crucible is as old as the Reapers themselves; and was meant to show that should someone build and complete it (like Shep did by uniting the galaxy) then the Reapers were no longer a vaible option because they could be beaten. Not that they would have been beaten; just that they could have been beaten.

As revealed by the Prothean VI
Vendetta, the Crucible wasn't originally designed by the Protheans, but
was rather the work of other species throughout the cycles of
extinction stretching back millions of years, improving upon it. The
Protheans were close to deploying it when a group of separatists thought
to control the Reapers rather than destroy them.

That is what the VI said.

But a VI is not an intelligence. As I said they ASSUMED that's who designed it, but they had no way of knowing. Plus, another clue is when Hackett says how easy the blueprints were to understand; so basically anyone who found them would be able to theoretically attempt building it.

[vertigo72]

Szelenas wrote...

T-0pel wrote...

I am not really gonna talk about most of the issues because other people adressed them already. So with that out of the way here is my main problem:

The AI god thing states that reapers are his solution, not some kind of test. The crucible is not his way of testing organics, it is stated that it is a device that was designed by every galactic civilization and every cycle improved upon it. It is something the god AI did not forsee in all its "perfect and inevetable logic".
And the AI clearly states that you maikng it to the citadel and connecting the crucible changed somthing and it proves that his cycle wont work ANYMORE!
So how can you belive this premise synthetics versus organics without question? The AI clearly made a mistake, organics eventually found a way to overcome his cycle. Maybe we are also able to coexist with synthetics? Maybe Shepards intervention with the Geth forever changed everything in synthetics way of thinking? Dont we have the right to tell him that it might have taken milions of years but eventually we managed to overcome his premise?
Just think about it please...

finally,some can think logically

Yes, Reapers created the cycle, which is a temporary solution to the problem until someone, some organic, prove that they are not full retards and manage to bring that big stick to the Citadel. We don't know who started the Crucible, we only know what Proteans said us. They was not the first and they lost. Maybe Reapers gave the plan of the Crucible to the organics, why not? 

Now, maybe you right then you can choose other ending that synthesis and hope it will work. In fact, nobody knows if the synthesis will work, maybe they will start another war tomorrow.

[vertigo72]

crazygrinner wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

spartan5127 wrote...

If there is a problem between organics and synthetics is not a hardware one, it is mental one.
They think differently. To think that make everyone have the same dna will change anything about this conflict is not in line with what will actually happen.

Unless synthesis changes their way of thinking, in which case, I had no right to make the decision because I am effectively destroying who they are.

This is disregarding the fact that synthetics and organics actually can get along and can work out their differences the same way that any two peoples can work out their differences

After synthesis there will be no organics nor synthetics. There will be a completely new form of life. That's the great point of the ending. You are like half god, you create new life but don't exactly know how it will work. Nobody knows. You litteraly jump into this solution. 

So let me get this straight.  You're perfectly fine with playing Space-Jesus in a Military Sci-Fi story?  Because that just seems sketchy to me.

Also I find you're profile picture of a volus appropriate.  Brings back lovely memories of ME2.

I don't know, nothing really shocked me that much. Everything is science, Shep just have to make a choice. 

Modifié par vertigo72, 17 mars 2012 - 03:23 .

[T-0pel]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Szelenas wrote...

T-0pel wrote...

I am not really gonna talk about most of the issues because other people adressed them already. So with that out of the way here is my main problem:

The AI god thing states that reapers are his solution, not some kind of test. The crucible is not his way of testing organics, it is stated that it is a device that was designed by every galactic civilization and every cycle improved upon it. It is something the god AI did not forsee in all its "perfect and inevetable logic".
And the AI clearly states that you maikng it to the citadel and connecting the crucible changed somthing and it proves that his cycle wont work ANYMORE!
So how can you belive this premise synthetics versus organics without question? The AI clearly made a mistake, organics eventually found a way to overcome his cycle. Maybe we are also able to coexist with synthetics? Maybe Shepards intervention with the Geth forever changed everything in synthetics way of thinking? Dont we have the right to tell him that it might have taken milions of years but eventually we managed to overcome his premise?
Just think about it please...

finally,some can think logically

lol, the Geth are but ONE form of synthetic life; not the defining ONE. Cerberus was designing a bunch of different AI's throughout the games; just because the Geth were all 'hugs and kisses' doesn't mean another synthetic life form wouldn't come to the same conclusion that Catalyst based his logic on.

Keep in mind the Geth Heretics CHOSE to join Sovereign because he offered them technology to help build the Geth network hub near Rannoch. They CHOSE to kill organics in the name of technological advancement. Sovereign always kinda said he hated the Geth and the were but a means to an end (cannon-fodder to recapture Citadel) Just the fact alone that a few Geth would come to this conclusion that killing organics for advancement is a good idea proves Catalyst's position.

The fact that it was just a "few" of them is the reason why it doesnt prove anything.
And even if everything you say is true it is still just a speculation without any solid evidence one way or another.

[Welsh Inferno]

vertigo72 wrote...

If you choose to unify both races then there will be no war anymore and only one form of life that will inherit best parts of both forms. Something like immortal people with all their emotions.

I'm sorry. I find this the worst part of anyones argument in defence of the starchild's logic and endings. Why you ask? You really believe that organics/organic-synthetic hybrids won't war with ourselves? We are just as destructive. Just as cold. MORE evil minded. Look at the Protheans, they uplift every species they find and tell them you submit to us or we destroy you. End of. Humanity would have been given this choice eventually. I bet we would have fought them. And lost. The Protheans would of EVENTUALLY controlled/destroyed everything in the entire galaxy just as any Synthetic is capable of. It makes no difference whatsoever. 

Probably been mentioned already. Just adding my part.

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 17 mars 2012 - 03:24 .

[Strange Aeons]

What’s truly baffling about the ending is that each variation manages to disregard completely the specific lessons of the previous events in its own unique way. 
 
The explanation of the Reapers and the destroy (red) ending in particular might resonate if there were actually some ongoing tension about the latent danger of synthetics…except that everything we saw in the last two games teaches us exactly the opposite.  I'm not talking about what people imagine might, maybe, possibly could happen sometime in the fiture; I'm talking about what the game actually shows us.  They go to great lengths to establish that synthetics are alive and capable of growth and selflessness and friendship and individuality and love just in time for Shepard to murder them all.  It’s like ending Pinocchio with Geppetto stuffing him into a wood chipper.

Then there’s the (blue) option to ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL of the Reapers.  This scenario requires us to ignore that (at least if you were a paragon) you just spent the entire previous game arguing with the Illusive Man that using the Reapers’ tactics of subjugation against them was morally abhorrent.  Shepard says outright that he will not sacrifice his soul for victory.  In fact, in the scene literally just prior to this we explained to the Illusive Man that attempting to control the Reapers is evil and insane and doomed to failure.  So persuasive was Shepard’s argument that the Illusive Man shot himself in the head to escape the horror of what he had become.  Now let’s just go ahead and try the same thing ourselves.  What could possibly go wrong?

The most horrific outcome of all is the synthesis (green) ending, which would have us accept that Shepard transforms the galaxy’s entire population against their will into man-machine hybrids, akin to the monstrous Reapers and their minions whom we just spent three games fighting.  You know, minions like Saren and the Illusive Man and the entire Prothean race who were turned into man-machine hybrids and thereby became slaves of the Reapers.  He does this based on the assurances of a mysterious entity who admits it is working with the Reapers and who hastily appeared out of nowhere just as Shepard arrived at the weapon that could potentially defeat them.  Sounds legit.

So, after stuffing the myriad choices we’ve made throughout the series into a blender and homogenizing them into a single “readiness” number, the defining gameplay mechanic of the series (the dialogue wheel) vanishes at the most crucial moment and this player-driven epic is reduced to three choices: genocide, becoming a monster that violates every ethical principle you’ve lived by, or raping the entire galaxy. 

And then you die. 

And then the game is deliberately obscure about how your choices impact not only the galaxy but, far more importantly, the characters whom you have come to love and who are the lifeblood of the game.

The identity of Mass Effect is not in its visual style or its gameplay, which has changed substantially over the course of the series.  It’s not even in its story, because there is no one story: every Shepard is different.  The defining element of Mass Effect, without which it is nothing, is its unprecedented interactivity that allows you to shape your own story—and, this being a video game, significantly affect the outcome if you played well enough.

That’s what the last two games did, and it’s precisely what ME3’s ending failed to deliver

[T-0pel]

vertigo72 wrote...

Szelenas wrote...

T-0pel wrote...

I am not really gonna talk about most of the issues because other people adressed them already. So with that out of the way here is my main problem:

The AI god thing states that reapers are his solution, not some kind of test. The crucible is not his way of testing organics, it is stated that it is a device that was designed by every galactic civilization and every cycle improved upon it. It is something the god AI did not forsee in all its "perfect and inevetable logic".
And the AI clearly states that you maikng it to the citadel and connecting the crucible changed somthing and it proves that his cycle wont work ANYMORE!
So how can you belive this premise synthetics versus organics without question? The AI clearly made a mistake, organics eventually found a way to overcome his cycle. Maybe we are also able to coexist with synthetics? Maybe Shepards intervention with the Geth forever changed everything in synthetics way of thinking? Dont we have the right to tell him that it might have taken milions of years but eventually we managed to overcome his premise?
Just think about it please...

finally,some can think logically

Yes, Reapers created the cycle, which is a temporary solution to the problem until someone, some organic, prove that they are not full retards and manage to bring that big stick to the Citadel. We don't know who started the Crucible, we only know what Proteans said us. They was not the first and they lost. Maybe Reapers gave the plan of the Crucible to the organics, why not? 

Now, maybe you right then you can choose other ending that synthesis and hope it will work. In fact, nobody knows if the synthesis will work, maybe they will start another war tomorrow.

That is an awfull lot of maybe in a conlusion to an epic sci-fi saga.
And no, I cant choose other endings. I wanted the reapers to die without commitng genocide on Geth. I dont want to control them and abolutely dont understand why I should?! 3 minutes ago I was telling TIM that we either destroy them, or they destroy us. And now I choose to control them... Great.
I actually had to choose the synthesis because it was the only interesting option that looked like it has some hope for future.

[JerkyJohnny14]

vertigo72 wrote...

Plaim wrote...

There are many, many posts explaining just why those problems aren't so "minor". But it's cool that you were happy with the way things turned out. I certainly wish I was.

I didn't see yet any very important plot hole. I can see now that Bioware had an idea and implemented it in 3 huge games. The thing is so huge that I think it's normal that we have some errors and some things was sacrified for some reason, like nice view on the Earth from space without helmet.

1. Relays destroyed- Systems perfectly fine. Alpha Relay destroyed- Batarian system Gone. Why is that? Space magic.
2. Team mates with you while harbinger attacks teleport to ship perfectly fine.. Why is that? Space magic.3. Normandy flees fight, leaves Shepard, crash lands on unknown jungle planet, everyone is fine. Why is that? Space magic4. The catalyst is alive???? Why is that? Space magic5. Shep is only allowed three crappy choices. Why is that? Space magic.6. Shaprd chooses detroy ending, with enough war assets, wakes up in a pile of rubble. Why is that? Space magic.7. Dark energy no longer a problem. Why is that? Space magic.8. no one ever notices child on earth except for shepard, same child haunts shepard's dreams, same child is catalyst. Why is that? Space magic.9. After the beam shep enters a perfeclty mirroed world, only found when one dreams. Why is that? Space magic.

[Cobra's_back]

vertigo72 wrote...

 
People pick the details but don't see the whole picture. So, there is how I understand the whole story and why I think the ending is very good:


You, Shepard, are here to solve a big problem that you don't even understand before the end. Which is this problem?

The main problem of the ME Universe is that organic life creates syntetic life then tries to destroy it. Always. It's like an axiom in this ME Universe, you have to trust Reapers (and Bioware writers) on that. Syntetic life is like organic life, but it is not limited by the body. Most important thing it is immortal. So any AI can evolve as much as they can, because they don't have time constraints. Because of that they are immensely superior. Also, they don't have emotions, at least not much. So we have this hopeless and very very ancient war, that's our problem.


(Don't say that you didn't see that coming because you fight syntetics in all 3 ME games. Reapers, Geth, husks, indoctrinated people, ...)


AIs are like Legion, they don't really need to fight but they will protect their life. So some ancient AI found a solution: a way to unify synthetic and organic life. The problem with this solution is that AIs don't want to unify themselves with some retards (would you like to unify yourself with your pocket calculator?) Also, they don't want to make a choice themselves, maybe they don't have consensus or something. Also, they don't want to force organics.


So, they gave organics a test: evolve enogh and you will have a choice what to do. To pass the test you have to build a big stick, put it on the Citadel and press a button. That's all. Then you will have 3 choices. You have 50000 years to do it, now go and evolve. Every 50k years we (Reapers) will come and give you an exam. When you fail we will copy your software and some DNA into a new reaper then use you for some purpose. 

The Citadel, the little boy, is like the examiner who will judge you. That's why it doesn't inferfere.


And Shepard was the first organic to do it, unify everybody to build the stick and arrive to the exam to press a button.


About 3 choices: it's a part of the exam,  only one choice is correct. 


If you choose to destroy or control the Reapers, then the problem will rise again sooner or later. Synthetics will always evolve into AI and the war will start again, eventually new Reapers will be created and so on. 


If you choose to unify both races then there will be no war anymore and only one form of life that will inherit best parts of both forms. Something like immortal people with all their emotions.


So, to ensure that you really really gave the answer you have right to only one answer, after you die. (If you don't choose you die too, as every 50000 years)


That's my view of this story and that's why I believe the ending is perfect, despite some minor problems, like no helmets...

I see where you are coming from.

The problem is that the story is confusing.

There are tons of speculations.
 
The space boy is introduced in the very end. We don’t really know much about him. The other problem is seeing your squad mates on the Normandy when they were with you during the fight. I’m pretty sure that many players who loved and followed the story would not have complained if the ending had more details and less teleporting. It is okay if the squad mates that were with you died. The teleporting throws us for a curve.

The other problem is that fans are use to an excellent story from BW. This is changing things. Players may actually stop looking for a well written story and just look for an action game.