338 réponses à ce sujet

[Mtcool]

My point exactly. You are not given a choice at all. The reapers have won. I almost expected the starkid to say 'gotcha' when he says he's the controller of the reapers. I can't say the end no matter which color is your favorite feels like a victory. The reapers still won or at least went out on their own terms and the Galaxy is still left in ruins maybe even worse now because there is no way to rebuild without the mass relays. So the sacrifice at the end all feels in vain.

[Mandemon]

vertigo72 wrote...

Mandemon wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

Mandemon wrote...

 Synthesis makes no sense, because:
1) This spce magic:wizard: has no explanation anywhere.

2) How do you "fuse" synthethic(machine) and organic into new DNA? DNA is inheritly biological. This "solution" assumes that whatever "conflict" that will rise is based on what someone is made of. 

3) "Shepards essence", WTF? Shepard is organic, not synthethic. The Walking Plot Hole says s/he is part synthethic, but as far as I know, there is no trace of anything synthethic in his/her DNA.

4) How this happens? Control and Destroy atleast can handvawe this by having it affect Reaper programming, but this... I mean, pulse goes out and space magic:wizard: does something impossible to DNA?

Synthetics are software, people are some other kind of  computers (biochemical computers), why not to merge them? How? Well, Reapers had millions of years to find out. How it happens? You know, it's a little bit late to ask. You spent 150 hours believing that AI can exist (and Mass Effect fields too), so why this question now? Somehow using FTL core and Mass Effect fields.

Damn I'm late. Anyway, The Walking Plot Hole speficly refers to DNA, not minds. So it doesnät change "software", it changes "hardware". Also, Reapers don't have DNA as far as we know. They melt down biological lifeforms into goo and pump them to serve as brains.

Also, Element Zero and whole Mass Effect is explained in-universe why and how. Also, several times it is explained how AI can exist. EDI has Quantum core, that is like saying she has mechanical version of human brains. Geth, untill Reaper upgrades, are collective of smaller programs that together can achieve larger and larger intelligence. Signular Geth is no smarter than your phone. Thousand Geth working together can form a concessus and appear sentient.

There is limit on how much you can suspend your disbelief. If world remains consistent with itself, it is easier. This thing? Never even theorised in-universe, it simply comes out of nowhere.

Sorry, it's just a good writing. If they really knew *how* AI can exist, we could build one. With good writing they make it appers like it exists. "Quantum core is a mechanical version of human brain" is bull****. All this talk about geth intelligence it's also bull****. It's just that was explained before and the green beam of light wasn't.  

Now, in-universe, Reapers was sitting here for millions of years, they could invent a lot more than that. And it's quite logical they didn't run everywhere telling everybody: look look I have a green beam that rewrites your dna, let me explain how it works. It all makes sense in-universe.

Reapers were sitting here million of years? Nooooope, they were sleeping 49 999 years in dark space outside galaxy, come in for decade or two, wipe out everything above technology level X and get back to dark space for another 49 999 years . Also, the damn Green Beam is not Reaper tech. It's because of the Crucible did something.

Also, how is Geth intelligence or EDI brain in the jar 
bull****? Because we don't have them now? In that case, you are in wrong place. This is Science Fiction, a rather hard one. We do not have magic anywhere else, biotics skip the line but they are explained as tumors created by exposure to Element Zero before birth and require implant to work on humans. Space Magic:wizard: beam has no resemblence to anything.

Also, you still haven't explained how the **** does the beam work? How do you make DNA half-synthethic half-organic?

Let me ask you, if in the final moments of the Star Wars trilogy, after the death of Vader, instead of having scene with Ewoks you had Star child from 2001: Space Odussey? Woudl you still claim it is ok?

[Genera1Nemesis]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

Well, that matches with the rest of the story. For example war with synthetics, it's what we do for all 3 games.

But you also make friends with Legion and EDI in ME2, discover that only a portion of the Geth joined the reapers, then help make peace between the Quarians and Geth in ME3 and encourage EDI to embrace Joker.

All of this completely defies the logic of the Reapers. And don't claim,"Oh, the reapers have millions of years of knowledge" The Reapers wiped out civilizations before they advanced far enough. The Reapers are working off their OWN PERSONAL experience and are close-minded and won't embrace a dissenting opinion, no they wipe them out before they have the chance to address the problem they think they might have.

These are exceptions; not the rule. Cerberus was constantly making AI weapons; Overlord being one of their more dastardly ones. Using the Geth and EDI as the only examples is short-sighted at best. Plus, the story of the Heretics proves the Catalyst's point; they chose to kill organics in order to advance tehcnologically.

There is no rule, the Catalyst has a hypothesis at best. 

It is impossible for a writer to write a omnisceint being because the writer is himself a flawed organic, as it were. Think Q from Star Trek; he actually could see the future and put humanity on trial because he asserts that humans are destructive by nature. Picard is the exception; and thus proves that not ALL humans are like that . Does not mean Q was wrong; just means Picard was the exception and thus provided a basis for Q to reanalyze his assessment (even then he says the trial never ends)

Q knows he's right beyond a shadow of a doubt; but his logic seems flawed because we as limited beings cannot fathom how he would make that assessment.

Vigil in Mass Effect even says 'Maybe they're here for resources; maybe their motives are unknowable and beyond our comprehension. In the end it does not matter if you understand them; only that you defeat them."

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

but, in the cutscene of the defeatedenof the Reaper, Shepard not its death she is life and the Nromandy its save but on in strange planet, Joker, Liara, Jelik and the all member of Normandy isn't live, but the relay its destroyed ?
i not like the ending.

Modifié par FRANCESCO84Inn, 17 mars 2012 - 04:51 .

[Andronic0s]

vertigo72 wrote...

The main problem of the ME Universe is that organic life creates syntetic life then tries to destroy it. Always. It's like an axiom in this ME Universe, you have to trust Reapers (and Bioware writers) on that. 

Assuming you believe the star child, but we know the star child can be wrong, if you choose the renegade ending it is implied Shepard lived after the citadel explosion yet the starchild told us we would die, he either lied or miscaulculated, both of which implied that the starchild is not to be trusted.

[jvara]

(Don't say that you didn't see that coming because you fight syntetics in all 3 ME games. Reapers, Geth, husks, indoctrinated people, ...)

I hate when people say this kind of thing, like when you come of a freaking bad movie and someone says "what where you expecting?", I didn't see the ending coming because if I had, I wouldn't be playing the game.

AIs are like Legion, they don't really need to fight but they will protect their life. So some ancient AI found a solution: a way to unify synthetic and organic life. The problem with this solution is that AIs don't want to unify themselves with some retards (would you like to unify yourself with your pocket calculator?) Also, they don't want to make a choice themselves, maybe they don't have consensus or something. Also, they don't want to force organics.

Wrong: The child of the stars literally says that the "Crucible has opened new choices, but I can't make them happen". So it wasn't he AI's idea to do that, it was some kind of unforseen effect of the Crucible.

So, they gave organics a test: evolve enogh and you will have a choice what to do. To pass the test you have to build a big stick, put it on the Citadel and press a button. That's all. Then you will have 3 choices. You have 50000 years to do it, now go and evolve. Every 50k years we (Reapers) will come and give you an exam. When you fail we will copy your software and some DNA into a new reaper then use you for some purpose.

Wrong yet Again: The Reapers are some kind of "library" of organic life, created by the child of the stars for some how storing organic life, not having to whipe them out of existance (or something because I don't really see a real difference between that and total anihilation) and leaving the path open for next civilizations to evolve in peace without them interfering. So they don't give organic "time to prepare for the test" they give organics time to live, period, just that, you live to this point, at that point we will consider your time has run out, we'll whipe you out, backup you on this Verbatim Re-Recordable Reaper, and leave the unevolved lifeforms of the galaxy to have their chance of becoming our next victims.

If you choose to destroy or control the Reapers, then the problem will rise again sooner or later. Synthetics will always evolve into AI and the war will start again, eventually new Reapers will be created and so on.

EDI didn't raise to destroy nothing, actually she was the rogue VI on the moon, so when she gained full conciousness she actually ceased hostilities against organic life. The Geth didn't rebel against Quarins, but the other way around, as shown on Legion's mission. So he is nbot just a Deus Ex Machina, but also sadly wrong.

You sure it's the rest of us who didn't understad something?.

Modifié par jvara, 17 mars 2012 - 04:56 .

[cynicalandbored]

Mtcool wrote...

My point exactly. You are not given a choice at all. The reapers have won. I almost expected the starkid to say 'gotcha' when he says he's the controller of the reapers. I can't say the end no matter which color is your favorite feels like a victory. The reapers still won or at least went out on their own terms and the Galaxy is still left in ruins maybe even worse now because there is no way to rebuild without the mass relays. So the sacrifice at the end all feels in vain.

Exactly. I really don't want to be playing a game where in the end nothing actually really mattered since I lose anyway. I wouldn't care if most people die, I don't care if Shepard dies, saving the galaxy. But what I don't like is:

A)The inexplicable kid
B)Exploding mass relays that kill more people than Reapers did
C)Random races scattered on random planets, nobody being able to go anywhere.
D)The fact that it feels like there hasn't been done any justice. It's still a video game, I don't want to be playing something that I know I can't win.

And I thought the ps3 framerate was gonna be my only problem.

[The Night Mammoth]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Again, this is a glass is half empty perspective at best. And not have the resources? What about all those destroyed reapers everywhere? What about all those detroyed ships? All they would need to build is one ship capable of jumping faster than normal FTL; and again; even if that took 10-100 years to do it would still be better than letting the Reapers continue on for another fw million years killing an infinite number of people.

The destroyed Reapers are only around in one of the three 'options' you're given. Doesn't matter anyway, destroyed Reapers are proven to indoctrinate people. 

Destroyed ships can't exactly do much. Some salvagable metal, big woop. How do they extract it? How do they process it? 

They could solve the FTL problem, sure. 
In a few hundred years.
The Mass Relay's technology is the closest thing, it's their only option, and they aren't even close. If they ever do solve the problem, the galaxy will be a very different place. Who knows, the situation could be even worse. 

[justlogme]

Pairikas wrote...

You should Keep for yourself that you like the End, and not go too Deep in the Reasons why the most hate it. Because you could change your mind about that and start hate it like me.

I try to Save you. Really.

  Thats what Maraurder Shields the end boss is for. All praise the true hero and savior of ME3 marauder Shields!

 Lets not tell the kid that The reapers were Bio/synthetics and that the green choice was just a goahead  for the Reapers to continue to rend all races down to their genetic components to make new reapers

[Genera1Nemesis]

Andronic0s wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

The main problem of the ME Universe is that organic life creates syntetic life then tries to destroy it. Always. It's like an axiom in this ME Universe, you have to trust Reapers (and Bioware writers) on that. 

Assuming you believe the star child, but we know the star child can be wrong, if you choose the renegade ending it is implied Shepard lived after the citadel explosion yet the starchild told us we would die, he either lied or miscaulculated, both of which implied that the starchild is not to be trusted.

Taking a lst breath while buried under the rubble of the reactor he shot does not mean he 'lived'. And Catalyst says 'the cycle will just start again' if you choose that ending....

[Gulkin]

vertigo72 wrote...

 
People pick the details but don't see the whole picture. So, there is how I understand the whole story and why I think the ending is very good:.

Tell me how I can see the picture if it's full of plot holes?

[Mandemon]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

Well, that matches with the rest of the story. For example war with synthetics, it's what we do for all 3 games.

But you also make friends with Legion and EDI in ME2, discover that only a portion of the Geth joined the reapers, then help make peace between the Quarians and Geth in ME3 and encourage EDI to embrace Joker.

All of this completely defies the logic of the Reapers. And don't claim,"Oh, the reapers have millions of years of knowledge" The Reapers wiped out civilizations before they advanced far enough. The Reapers are working off their OWN PERSONAL experience and are close-minded and won't embrace a dissenting opinion, no they wipe them out before they have the chance to address the problem they think they might have.

These are exceptions; not the rule. Cerberus was constantly making AI weapons; Overlord being one of their more dastardly ones. Using the Geth and EDI as the only examples is short-sighted at best. Plus, the story of the Heretics proves the Catalyst's point; they chose to kill organics in order to advance tehcnologically.

Project Overlord was not a real AI. It was human strapped to machine, which was supposed to communicate with AI. Also, Heretic Geth were smaller group who didn't wish to wait and build the megastructure themselves, instead hoped that Reapers would do it. Also, Sovering pretty much brainwashed them.

Notice how each time AI rebelsit happens because

A) It is attacked first or tries to defend itself
Reapers corrupt it

Give me an example where AI attacks without either doing it in self-defence or Reapers not corrupting it

[Cody]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Again, this is a glass is half empty perspective at best. And not have the resources? What about all those destroyed reapers everywhere? What about all those detroyed ships? All they would need to build is one ship capable of jumping faster than normal FTL; and again; even if that took 10-100 years to do it would still be better than letting the Reapers continue on for another fw million years killing an infinite number of people.

The destroyed Reapers are only around in one of the three 'options' you're given. Doesn't matter anyway, destroyed Reapers are proven to indoctrinate people. 

Destroyed ships can't exactly do much. Some salvagable metal, big woop. How do they extract it? How do they process it? 

They could solve the FTL problem, sure. 
In a few hundred years.

Wrong. Once dead indoctrination is no loner a problem. And it does not take that long to create some useful tech off of a dead reaper. The Thanix Cannon proves this.

[Wolven_Soul]

vertigo72 wrote...

 
People pick the details but don't see the whole picture. So, there is how I understand the whole story and why I think the ending is very good:


You, Shepard, are here to solve a big problem that you don't even understand before the end. Which is this problem?

The main problem of the ME Universe is that organic life creates syntetic life then tries to destroy it. Always. It's like an axiom in this ME Universe, you have to trust Reapers (and Bioware writers) on that. Syntetic life is like organic life, but it is not limited by the body. Most important thing it is immortal. So any AI can evolve as much as they can, because they don't have time constraints. Because of that they are immensely superior. Also, they don't have emotions, at least not much. So we have this hopeless and very very ancient war, that's our problem.


(Don't say that you didn't see that coming because you fight syntetics in all 3 ME games. Reapers, Geth, husks, indoctrinated people, ...)


AIs are like Legion, they don't really need to fight but they will protect their life. So some ancient AI found a solution: a way to unify synthetic and organic life. The problem with this solution is that AIs don't want to unify themselves with some retards (would you like to unify yourself with your pocket calculator?) Also, they don't want to make a choice themselves, maybe they don't have consensus or something. Also, they don't want to force organics.


So, they gave organics a test: evolve enogh and you will have a choice what to do. To pass the test you have to build a big stick, put it on the Citadel and press a button. That's all. Then you will have 3 choices. You have 50000 years to do it, now go and evolve. Every 50k years we (Reapers) will come and give you an exam. When you fail we will copy your software and some DNA into a new reaper then use you for some purpose. 

The Citadel, the little boy, is like the examiner who will judge you. That's why it doesn't inferfere.


And Shepard was the first organic to do it, unify everybody to build the stick and arrive to the exam to press a button.


About 3 choices: it's a part of the exam,  only one choice is correct. 


If you choose to destroy or control the Reapers, then the problem will rise again sooner or later. Synthetics will always evolve into AI and the war will start again, eventually new Reapers will be created and so on. 


If you choose to unify both races then there will be no war anymore and only one form of life that will inherit best parts of both forms. Something like immortal people with all their emotions.


So, to ensure that you really really gave the answer you have right to only one answer, after you die. (If you don't choose you die too, as every 50000 years)


That's my view of this story and that's why I believe the ending is perfect, despite some minor problems, like no helmets...

I disagree with you in so many ways, but every arguement you make has been refuted over and over, and will no doubt be so again in this threat.  If you liked the ending, fine, the greater majority of the rest of us didn't for reasons already discussed many times over.

[Wolven_Soul]

vertigo72 wrote...

Doctor Uburian wrote...

But that's not what they promised.

What they promised?

They promised closure, they didn't deliver on that. 

[Genera1Nemesis]

Mandemon wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

Well, that matches with the rest of the story. For example war with synthetics, it's what we do for all 3 games.

But you also make friends with Legion and EDI in ME2, discover that only a portion of the Geth joined the reapers, then help make peace between the Quarians and Geth in ME3 and encourage EDI to embrace Joker.

All of this completely defies the logic of the Reapers. And don't claim,"Oh, the reapers have millions of years of knowledge" The Reapers wiped out civilizations before they advanced far enough. The Reapers are working off their OWN PERSONAL experience and are close-minded and won't embrace a dissenting opinion, no they wipe them out before they have the chance to address the problem they think they might have.

These are exceptions; not the rule. Cerberus was constantly making AI weapons; Overlord being one of their more dastardly ones. Using the Geth and EDI as the only examples is short-sighted at best. Plus, the story of the Heretics proves the Catalyst's point; they chose to kill organics in order to advance tehcnologically.

Project Overlord was not a real AI. It was human strapped to machine, which was supposed to communicate with AI. Also, Heretic Geth were smaller group who didn't wish to wait and build the megastructure themselves, instead hoped that Reapers would do it. Also, Sovering pretty much brainwashed them.

Notice how each time AI rebelsit happens because

A) It is attacked first or tries to defend itself
Reapers corrupt it

Give me an example where AI attacks without either doing it in self-defence or Reapers not corrupting it

Sovereign offered to help build the Geth hub. The heretics thought Soveriegn was like a god; the epitome of AI. The CHOSE to fight for Soveriegn, he didn't brainwash them. Had he breainwashed them then it would have been all Geth, not just a few.

And even self-preservation can lead to the conclusion that organics are just going to keep trying to wipe them out; so maybe getting rid of them entirely might be a good idea. remember, Legion even stated that the Geth wer still 'reaching consensus' on the implications of wiping out an enitire species.

And if you don't convince them otherwise; Legion even says 'the deaths of the creators is the only way. Sorry Tali-Zora, there is no other option." Of course at that point you either paragon or renegade it, but if you don't then it ends up as either the Quarians wipe out the Geth or vice versa.

[The Night Mammoth]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

There is no rule, the Catalyst has a hypothesis at best. 

It is impossible for a writer to write a omnisceint being because the writer is himself a flawed organic, as it were. Think Q from Star Trek; he actually could see the future and put humanity on trial because he asserts that humans are destructive by nature. Picard is the exception; and thus proves that not ALL humans are like that . Does not mean Q was wrong; just means Picard was the exception and thus provided a basis for Q to reanalyze his assessment (even then he says the trial never ends)

The Starkid wasn't omniscient. It couldn't see the future, it didn't know everything, it had a hypothesis without any proof. 

Q knows he's right beyond a shadow of a doubt; but his logic seems flawed because we as limited beings cannot fathom how he would make that assessment.

The Catalyst was not like Q.

Q was infinite. He knew all there has been and all there was to be, and he had a rule that all humans were chaotic and destructive. Rightly so, Picard proved otherwise, that not all humans were like that. On those grounds alone, Q was wrong to generalize. It proves he wasn't as infinitely logical as he thought. 

Vigil in Mass Effect even says 'Maybe they're here for resources; maybe their motives are unknowable and beyond our comprehension. In the end it does not matter if you understand them; only that you defeat them."

That was a very long time ago, a line given by a VI without the capacity to learn beyond its programming, stuck with the same perspective. Shepard is given a choice at the end, understanding the choice is important. It doesn't take much to refute the Child's logic. 
 
Besides, we as omniscient readers as it were, want to understand it. 

[Wolven_Soul]

vertigo72 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Three words: geth, quarians, peace.

Destroy is the only right answer. The Guardian is full of **** and the red magic obviously does not kill geth.

Not sure if I understand. If you choose to unify there will be no war because there will be no organics and no synthetics but a new form of life. Probably there will be some new war, but not his one.

You know, another problem that I have with the synthesis ending is Shepherd making that kind of decision for not just the members of his own race, but for every race across the galaxy.  I know he is the hero of the story and all that and the only one who can make that choice and all, but I seriously doubt that synthesis is the choice that the greater majority of people would make.  Thus I can actually see Shepherd's name being cursed and reviled forevor more.

[Genera1Nemesis]

Wolven_Soul wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

 
People pick the details but don't see the whole picture. So, there is how I understand the whole story and why I think the ending is very good:


You, Shepard, are here to solve a big problem that you don't even understand before the end. Which is this problem?

The main problem of the ME Universe is that organic life creates syntetic life then tries to destroy it. Always. It's like an axiom in this ME Universe, you have to trust Reapers (and Bioware writers) on that. Syntetic life is like organic life, but it is not limited by the body. Most important thing it is immortal. So any AI can evolve as much as they can, because they don't have time constraints. Because of that they are immensely superior. Also, they don't have emotions, at least not much. So we have this hopeless and very very ancient war, that's our problem.


(Don't say that you didn't see that coming because you fight syntetics in all 3 ME games. Reapers, Geth, husks, indoctrinated people, ...)


AIs are like Legion, they don't really need to fight but they will protect their life. So some ancient AI found a solution: a way to unify synthetic and organic life. The problem with this solution is that AIs don't want to unify themselves with some retards (would you like to unify yourself with your pocket calculator?) Also, they don't want to make a choice themselves, maybe they don't have consensus or something. Also, they don't want to force organics.


So, they gave organics a test: evolve enogh and you will have a choice what to do. To pass the test you have to build a big stick, put it on the Citadel and press a button. That's all. Then you will have 3 choices. You have 50000 years to do it, now go and evolve. Every 50k years we (Reapers) will come and give you an exam. When you fail we will copy your software and some DNA into a new reaper then use you for some purpose. 

The Citadel, the little boy, is like the examiner who will judge you. That's why it doesn't inferfere.


And Shepard was the first organic to do it, unify everybody to build the stick and arrive to the exam to press a button.


About 3 choices: it's a part of the exam,  only one choice is correct. 


If you choose to destroy or control the Reapers, then the problem will rise again sooner or later. Synthetics will always evolve into AI and the war will start again, eventually new Reapers will be created and so on. 


If you choose to unify both races then there will be no war anymore and only one form of life that will inherit best parts of both forms. Something like immortal people with all their emotions.


So, to ensure that you really really gave the answer you have right to only one answer, after you die. (If you don't choose you die too, as every 50000 years)


That's my view of this story and that's why I believe the ending is perfect, despite some minor problems, like no helmets...

I disagree with you in so many ways, but every arguement you make has been refuted over and over, and will no doubt be so again in this threat.  If you liked the ending, fine, the greater majority of the rest of us didn't for reasons already discussed many times over.

But every argument made that says otherwise can be refuted too. noone is right or wrong on this subject because we all have our own perspectives and beliefs. Everything being offered up is opinion based on what we see or hear. Jut because I disagree with people who don't like the ending based on what I thought was good about does not mean that I'm right; just that I have a different perspective.

"You will find that many of the truths we face depend greatly on our own point of view." Obi-Wan Kinobi

[GreyhameBioware]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Again, breaking down the fourth wall; Bioware has always said that this is the end of Sheperd's trilogy. That basically says to me that there will be another Mass Effect game down the road (it makes them too much money NOT to make another one) So who is to say that that isn't what the plot of the next game is? Much like the story ahd to remain somewhat static in these three games (you always quit Cerberus, you always save the galaxy) then certain elements have to stay consistent at the end so that they have a clear picture of what the galaxy will look like as they move forward.

So they basically screwed over the end of Mass Effect 3 in an effort to make more money?  That's a really poor reason for them to have ended it the way they did.  Making a 4th one set after does not require the mass relays to be destroyed, they do not need to have a galactic reset button.  Thinking they did is really shows a lack of respect for the universe they wrote.

 I would love for a game to allow me to change EVERY aspect of the plot based on my decisions; we're just not there yet without it taking 20 years to develop. I theorize (which is to say I'm guessing) that the relay destruction is going to play a huge part should they ever do a direct sequel with a new hero.

Just so you know, they don't need to give us choices at the last minute for their to be a good ending.  They just need to make an ending that respects the rest of the choices we amde by not invalidating all of them in one fell swoop.

Modifié par GreyhameBioware, 17 mars 2012 - 05:12 .

[vertigo72]

Mandemon wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

Mandemon wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

Mandemon wrote...

 Synthesis makes no sense, because:
1) This spce magic:wizard: has no explanation anywhere.

2) How do you "fuse" synthethic(machine) and organic into new DNA? DNA is inheritly biological. This "solution" assumes that whatever "conflict" that will rise is based on what someone is made of. 

3) "Shepards essence", WTF? Shepard is organic, not synthethic. The Walking Plot Hole says s/he is part synthethic, but as far as I know, there is no trace of anything synthethic in his/her DNA.

4) How this happens? Control and Destroy atleast can handvawe this by having it affect Reaper programming, but this... I mean, pulse goes out and space magic:wizard: does something impossible to DNA?

Synthetics are software, people are some other kind of  computers (biochemical computers), why not to merge them? How? Well, Reapers had millions of years to find out. How it happens? You know, it's a little bit late to ask. You spent 150 hours believing that AI can exist (and Mass Effect fields too), so why this question now? Somehow using FTL core and Mass Effect fields.

Damn I'm late. Anyway, The Walking Plot Hole speficly refers to DNA, not minds. So it doesnät change "software", it changes "hardware". Also, Reapers don't have DNA as far as we know. They melt down biological lifeforms into goo and pump them to serve as brains.

Also, Element Zero and whole Mass Effect is explained in-universe why and how. Also, several times it is explained how AI can exist. EDI has Quantum core, that is like saying she has mechanical version of human brains. Geth, untill Reaper upgrades, are collective of smaller programs that together can achieve larger and larger intelligence. Signular Geth is no smarter than your phone. Thousand Geth working together can form a concessus and appear sentient.

There is limit on how much you can suspend your disbelief. If world remains consistent with itself, it is easier. This thing? Never even theorised in-universe, it simply comes out of nowhere.

Sorry, it's just a good writing. If they really knew *how* AI can exist, we could build one. With good writing they make it appers like it exists. "Quantum core is a mechanical version of human brain" is bull****. All this talk about geth intelligence it's also bull****. It's just that was explained before and the green beam of light wasn't.  

Now, in-universe, Reapers was sitting here for millions of years, they could invent a lot more than that. And it's quite logical they didn't run everywhere telling everybody: look look I have a green beam that rewrites your dna, let me explain how it works. It all makes sense in-universe.

Reapers were sitting here million of years? Nooooope, they were sleeping 49 999 years in dark space outside galaxy, come in for decade or two, wipe out everything above technology level X and get back to dark space for another 49 999 years . Also, the damn Green Beam is not Reaper tech. It's because of the Crucible did something.

Also, how is Geth intelligence or EDI brain in the jar 
bull****? Because we don't have them now? In that case, you are in wrong place. This is Science Fiction, a rather hard one. We do not have magic anywhere else, biotics skip the line but they are explained as tumors created by exposure to Element Zero before birth and require implant to work on humans. Space Magic:wizard: beam has no resemblence to anything.

Also, you still haven't explained how the **** does the beam work? How do you make DNA half-synthethic half-organic?

Let me ask you, if in the final moments of the Star Wars trilogy, after the death of Vader, instead of having scene with Ewoks you had Star child from 2001: Space Odussey? Woudl you still claim it is ok?

Siting in dark space don't mean they was not thinking. You don't have to run to make some science.

We don't know much about Crucible. My theory is that's Reaper tech, see above.

Sorry for the world bull****, I mean it's a lie. But they describet it so well you start to trust it exists. Green Beam is exactly the same thing, except we didn't see it before.  But as I said, why reapers will show it before? 

Honestly speaking, I never seen that movie. I'm more into books, Lem, PKD, Pelevin, Asimov, stuff like that.

[Wolven_Soul]

vertigo72 wrote...

Doctor Uburian wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Three words: geth, quarians, peace.

Destroy is the only right answer. The Guardian is full of **** and the red magic obviously does not kill geth.

Not sure if I understand. If you choose to unify there will be no war because there will be no organics and no synthetics but a new form of life. Probably there will be some new war, but not his one.

But those species didn't chose to ¨evolve¨!

It's their decisison, not the Starchild's or Shepards decision.

They trust him, it's like a democracy. But if you don't think so you can just destroy Reapers or do nothing. Plenty of choices.

They trusted him in the effort to destroy the Reapers.  They never have any knowledge of this choice.  If they did have a knowledge of it, I have no doubts they would be screaming at Shepherd to blow the Reapers up.

[Andronic0s]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Andronic0s wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

The main problem of the ME Universe is that organic life creates syntetic life then tries to destroy it. Always. It's like an axiom in this ME Universe, you have to trust Reapers (and Bioware writers) on that. 

Assuming you believe the star child, but we know the star child can be wrong, if you choose the renegade ending it is implied Shepard lived after the citadel explosion yet the starchild told us we would die, he either lied or miscaulculated, both of which implied that the starchild is not to be trusted.

Taking a lst breath while buried under the rubble of the reactor he shot does not mean he 'lived'. And Catalyst says 'the cycle will just start again' if you choose that ending....

The starchild implied that since shepard is part synthetic when the red energy hits him those will cease to function and he will die (because the citadel going boom is not a problem he foresaw aparently), it is true than the breathing doesnt means you lived long, but it does mean you survived after the destruction of your synthetics, thus proving the child wrong, and again "the cycle will just start again" is what the starchild claims there is no evidence to support this, how does he knows that? it obviously has never happened since organic life still exist on the galaxy thus he can not ascertain that his prediction is correct he can only theorize.

[The Night Mammoth]

CodyMelch wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Again, this is a glass is half empty perspective at best. And not have the resources? What about all those destroyed reapers everywhere? What about all those detroyed ships? All they would need to build is one ship capable of jumping faster than normal FTL; and again; even if that took 10-100 years to do it would still be better than letting the Reapers continue on for another fw million years killing an infinite number of people.

The destroyed Reapers are only around in one of the three 'options' you're given. Doesn't matter anyway, destroyed Reapers are proven to indoctrinate people. 

Destroyed ships can't exactly do much. Some salvagable metal, big woop. How do they extract it? How do they process it? 

They could solve the FTL problem, sure. 
In a few hundred years.

Wrong. Once dead indoctrination is no loner a problem. And it does not take that long to create some useful tech off of a dead reaper. The Thanix Cannon proves this.

The derelict Reaper in ME2 indoctrinates the Cerberus science team, turns some into husks and scions. 

As for the Thanix Cannons, well, that's one piece of tech to improve on one very small part of a single ship, a piece of tech the crew were already extremely close to being abel to create themselves. 
That doesn't mean there's a wealth of other easily extracted information which can ensure people's survival from starvation.

[Dark_Caduceus]

Doctor Uburian wrote...

vertigo72 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Three words: geth, quarians, peace.

Destroy is the only right answer. The Guardian is full of **** and the red magic obviously does not kill geth.

Not sure if I understand. If you choose to unify there will be no war because there will be no organics and no synthetics but a new form of life. Probably there will be some new war, but not his one.

But those species didn't chose to ¨evolve¨!

It's their decisison, not the Starchild's or Shepards decision.

Indeed.

To the OP, could you ever imagine homogenizing all the people on earth for the promise of ending human conflict? If you can, then you've already lost. It's diversity and unity in the face of adversity that's inspiring and powerful, not "if everyone is the same, then people won't fight anymore".