127 réponses à ce sujet

[AtlasMickey]

The apparent sameness of the endings and lack of choice is a statement about inevitability regarding organics and synthetics. 

The Catalyst believes that conflict between organics and synthetics is inevitable. Most people in the Mass Effect universe share this view, evidenced by the fact that the creation of AI is illegal and considered so dangerous that it's spoken of in hushed tones. However, making something illegal does not stop it from happening, particularly with something so amazing and life-changing as AI. Its creation is inevitable, because it's just so valuable.

It's simply irresistable, because we seek to understand ourselves. As we understand our own intelligence and model it on computers with ever greater accuracy, we reproduce sentient life as a matter of course. 

Or we will modify our own biology, perhaps even from birth, so much that over time we may appear to be every bit synthetic as organic, indistinguishable from an advanced AI. This too is irresistable because we will always be seeking greater health, intelligence, creativity, and strength. As long as technology offers a moral means to do so, that does not infringe on the rights to life and liberty of others, we will do so. It's inevitable.

Apparently in the Mass Effect universe, organics are far more likely to develop advanced AI first before modifying their biology to appear synthetic. Otherwise the Catalyst would not see so much conflict as to think it inevitable. This makes some intuitive sense. Intelligence and the prefrontal cortex itself may be simpler than the entire biological organism. Indeed as a subset they are simpler, but who knows, really, by what degree the part is reliant on the whole. 

Even if this is true, that synthetic life is created before organic synthesis and conflict with organics results, so to is its resolution through organic synthesis. There is no other way for the conflict to end, for even if there were no conflict, peaceful synthesis would be the result anyway. 

It's our destiny as intelligent life to use our intelligence to further our ends, to increase our lifespan, improve communication, explore new possibilities, create love, and achieve peace. Transcending our biological limitations and directing our own evolution does not in any way mean abandoning individual autonomy, our rights to life and liberty, and our sense of free will. We will still be human but also more. Some refer to this as "transhuman." Mass Effect refers to it as "Synthesis."

"Synthesis is the final evolution of life."

He's right. Synthesized life may progress even further to new forms of existence but there's no doubting that biological evolution through natural selection stops at the creation of synthesized life.

So those are the words of the Catalyst, the intelligence who controls the Reapers, and because of that some believe that choosing the Synthesis ending is submission to Reapers, as if this was the Catalyst's plan all the long. This is manifestly untrue, because the Catalyst only makes this suggestion because of Shepard's presence with the Crucible after uniting organic and synthetic life into a very large alliance. Indeed the Catalyst says it wasn't even a possibility until that moment and furthermore he needs Shepard willingness to do it. 

Once again, he needs Shepard's choice-- not indoctrination. It cannot be done against Shepard's will. 

So Shepard has the option to murder innocent life (EDI and Geth) by choosing destroy, or to sacrifice all that she is to order the Reapers to retreat against their will by choosing control, or be the vanguard of love and peace she was throughout the whole series, infusing the Crucible's energy with her compassion, and discharging it through the cosmos. She gives all life, organic and synthetic, the opportunity to have the best of both worlds, with the power and freedom to construct their lives as they see fit. 

That is the destiny of life, to live in freedom, peace, and propersity through intelligence, love, and compassion.

Modifié par AtlasMickey, 06 avril 2012 - 11:08 .

[DarkRavin07]

Why was joker running?
What space magic got my crew onto Normandy?
No Relays, how will the sol solar system support a fleet of that size?
What happens to all your crew, you'll squadmates, friends.. ect?

Need more space magic...

[DubVee12]

DarkRavin07 wrote...

Why was joker running?
What space magic got my crew onto Normandy?
No Relays, how will the sol solar system support a fleet of that size?
What happens to all your crew, you'll squadmates, friends.. ect?

Need more space magic...

Everything he said.

[Ajna]

AtlasMickey wrote...



So Shepard has the option to murder innocent life (EDI and Geth) by choosing destroy, or to sacrifice all that she is to order the Reapers to retreat against their will by choosing control, or be the vanguard of love and peace she was throughout the whole series, infusing the Crucible's energy with her compassion, and discharging it through the cosmos. She gives all life, organic and synthetic, the opportunity to have the best of both worlds, with the power and freedom to construct their lives as they see fit. 

That is the destiny of life, to live in freedom, peace, and propersity through intelligence, love, and compassion.

This paragraph describes the beauty I see in it, it gels with me on a personal level and I can accept it, but...I don't have the words to externalise my thoughts right now.  Thankyou for vocalising it though, it's an amazing thought if that were the intention, and one that had indeed crossed my mind when I'd been trying to work out wth had happened, but things are still missing for a lot of people.  Things are still missing for me.

[Ajna]

"If I accept the premise that the game "had to end this way" it certainly would have been nice if the game itself had built up specifically towards that particular ending. Plus the execution of the endings could have been much better"

I think this is what I'm thinking about, in a matter of minutes we are expected to see this utopia we have the opportunity to bring about, that wasn't going to happen. Three games worth of evil reapers had already set minds on a single track. It was too sudden, if that makes any sense...

[Iakus]

And here I thought Mass Effect was about finding your own path, not taking one handed to you by someone else...

[AtlasMickey]

DarkRavin07 wrote...

Why was joker running?

To save the lives of the people aboard Normandy. If you saw the Citadel explode in an orb of light, and you were my pilot, I'd hope you do the same. AtreiyaN7 says it best and, if you need more regarding Joker, you should follow her posts. Joker blames himself for Shepard's death at the beginning of ME2. Maybe he learned from that mistake.

What space magic got my crew onto Normandy?

No magic, just an ordinary shuttle. They were either ordered to retreat or left on their own volition. They all said their good-byes and expressed their reluctance to be part of yet another suicide mission.

If you had a fondness for your love interest, or liked any of the other characters, it would not have been right to ask them to be part of a second suicide mission.

No Relays, how will the sol solar system support a fleet of that size?

The destruction of the relays is a major inconvenience but in the long run worth the price, particularly in the Synthesis ending. With the knowledge of the Reapers and organic life still intact and coexisting peacefully, they have the opportunity to create something even better than the relays, since the primary purpose of the relays was to manipulate the development of the younger races. More about the relays in this thread.

What happens to all your crew, you'll squadmates, friends.. ect?

Details. They all had and will continue to have lives of their own. Although it seems clear that Joker and EDI are symbolic Adam and Eve figures for a new age of galactic peace and love. 

Not to dismiss this question, though, because the complexity in answering it is why the story ends at that point. We really can't imagine what Synethesized life will be like. They will do so things so amazing and so advanced that it will be beyond our comprehension. Many scientists use the word "technological singularity" to describe this event, comparing it to the event horizon of the singularity of a black hole, a horizon which we can't see beyond. 

The story ends there because that's where our ability to tell the story ends. It couldn't have ended any other way.

Modifié par AtlasMickey, 17 mars 2012 - 06:10 .

[Praetor Knight]

Meh. You certainly make a lot of assumptions in the OP.

I'll just say I disagree.

[Hendrik.III]

There's always another way.

Too many variables and assumptions in your reasoning that can be disputed. Looking for justification of the ending is good if it works for you, but to say that it could not have ended any other way is simply not true in a game that is all about choice.

I respectfully disagree

[Doctor Uburian]

It couldn't have ended any other way

It's a video game, isn't it?

Then, anything can happen.

Letting people despair because of those sad endings is inhuman.

Modifié par Doctor Uburian, 17 mars 2012 - 06:35 .

[ashwind]

There is definitely a certain beauty to the the ending choices.

Bioware only fails to address the aftermath. I think that is why many are upset. Maybe the effects of any of these choices are too complex and even the writers are not sure what would happen. So they left it blank. Maybe they do not have enough time and resource to come up with a good epilogue.

To deny that there is a certain beauty to the ending choices is a bit unfair to the developers.

[Someone With Mass]

Okay, then how come EDI steps out of the crashed Normandy even in the Destroy ending and the squad that was killed by Harbinger (yeah, it's really believable that he'd be able to shut up about something like that too) suddenly shows up on the Normandy without as much as a scratch?

How come that the Reapers are trying to protect the organics for beings like themselves by killing, torturing and sometimes converting all advanced organic life in the galaxy? Because that makes them massive hypocrites.

If the soldiers on the ground were barely affected by the shockwave, then why did Joker decide that the best course of action was to flee through the exploding relay, which can't take him back or forward once he's out of FTL?

Why did the mass relays explode to begin with? Wasn't that the kind of thing we were trying to prevent in the first place?

How come that absolutely none of our previous choices have any kind of impact beyond the metagame concept of adding more points to our score instead of providing a more practical solution?

Oh, right.

Because some people think that a dark tone automatically means that it's edgy, extremely well done, a necessity and really inspiring art, even though I doubt they even know the definition of art to begin with.

The ending suffers from jarring plot holes, nonsensical and unexplained twists, very bad structural design, horrible voice acting, choices that barely have any distinct impacts on anything and it's missing the one thing BioWare constantly promised. CLOSURE.

Seriously, why was it so bad to just destroy the Reapers, and the outcome of the activation of the Crucible would depend on your previous choices instead of just your score?

But, the most insulting thing is that the game is trying to make Shepard look like the villain, because he wants to destroy the Reapers, which apparently are the protectors of the galaxy by some intensely moronic logic.

These are the machines that have taken quadrillions of lives for billions of years just because some deranged AI thought it was the best thing to do, and I'm the bad guy for trying to stop them?

It's on the same level as trying to defend the Holocaust, FFS.

Oh, and by the way, that AI deserves to be destroyed, because even EDI is better, since she can calculate several different scenarios, she's ready to give up her own existence to protect others, but most important of all, she can alter her core programming if she so pleases.

The Guardian is the most pathetic piece of machinery I've ever seen in any work of fiction. It's not even funny how pointless his existence is.

Oh, and the whole "synthetics and organics can't live together" crap? Look at the quarians and the geth. They have a chance to live in symbiosis. And even if it won't always remain that way, surely there's a better solution than to constantly hit the "Delete" button for the galaxy, right?

The Reapers have no solid purpose for doing what they do.

[ashwind]

Okay, then how come EDI steps out of the crashed Normandy even in the Destroy ending

Never happen like this for me. How I wish I can get to see EDI after I pick Destroy. Then I can be 100% sure the Catalyst is CAKE.

As for the Catalyst/Reapers's purpose, people have commit genocide for sillier reasons. They think they are right, they think they know everything. It does not have to make sense. Their reason could be as simple as: We just feel like it. You dont like it? Try to stop us then.

[Someone With Mass]

ashwind wrote...

Okay, then how come EDI steps out of the crashed Normandy even in the Destroy ending

Never happen like this for me. How I wish I can get to see EDI after I pick Destroy. Then I can be 100% sure the Catalyst is CAKE.

As for the Catalyst/Reapers's purpose, people have commit genocide for sillier reasons. They think they are right, they think they know everything. It does not have to make sense. Their reason could be as simple as: We just feel like it. You dont like it? Try to stop us then.

While that is true, you have to remember that we're talking about an AI that's hopefully going by the more logical choices. If they're so smart, then why couldn't they find a more permanent solution that doesn't involve mass genocide?

[Jenga136]

If you had a fondness for your love interest, or liked any of the other
characters, it would not have been right to ask them to be part of a
second suicide mission.

I took my love interest (Kaidan) and my favorite other character (Tali) on the final mission. It's the last push, and it is what, as a character, mine would do.
Then Kaidan is on the Normandy in the end. It doesn't make much sense, as we were in that final push together. Are you saying my choice was what terrible people do? Because if I was a good person, I would never dream of bringing the man I love with me into Hell?

And if so, why wasn't that factored into BW's ending logic? Why ignore a choice I'd recently made?

I'm not saying that Shepard didn't need to make a sacrifice, or in some endings, be the sacrifice. Other games do this bittersweet decision. But I'd wager that in the end, BW thought more of their plot, when up until the end, it was all about character. They had the opportunity to make Mass Effect so much more than its predecessors. They had the opportunity to redefine a gaming genre. And they messed up, because it is like they lost themselves when everyone else believed in them.

Was there no other way to have this end? I can agree to some levels. But their shortsighted outlook hurt their own franchise and in turn has hurt their very fan base.

[Redwing198403]

organic synthesis is forcing your decision on organics that may not want it. Sound familiar?

[Dangerfoot]

Nah, I'm pretty sure it was terrible and this is the wrong forum.

[izmirtheastarach]

Dangerfoot wrote...

Nah, I'm pretty sure it was terrible and this is the wrong forum.

I wish people would keep this crap where it belongs. It's impossible to avoid these threads even if you stick to the sections where they are completely off topic.

[DubVee12]

[quote]AtlasMickey wrote...

[quote]DarkRavin07 wrote...

Why was joker running?[/quote]

To save the lives of the people aboard Normandy. If you saw the Citadel explode in an orb of light, and you were my pilot, I'd hope you do the same. AtreiyaN7 says it best and, if you need more regarding Joker, you should follow her posts. Joker blames himself for Shepard's death at the beginning of ME2. Maybe he learned from that mistake.
[quote]

Obviously not if he got everyone EXCEPT SHEPARD.

Modifié par DubVee12, 17 mars 2012 - 08:14 .

[MadCat221]

I went in probably expecting a heroic sacrifice on Shepard's part, and a lot of people were gonna die.

But why... why must the mass relay network blow up? That completely destroys the franchise verse.

Modifié par MadCat221, 17 mars 2012 - 08:27 .

[MeldarthX]

AtlasMickey wrote...

The apparent sameness of the endings and lack of choice is a statement about inevitability regarding organics and synthetics. 

The Catalyst believes that conflict between organics and synthetics is inevitable. Most people in the Mass Effect universe share this view, evidenced by the fact that the creation of AI is illegal and considered so dangerous that it's spoken of in hushed tones. However, making something illegal does not stop it from happening, particularly with something so amazing and life-changing as AI. Its creation is inevitable, because it's just so valuable.

It's simply irresistable, because we seek to understand ourselves. As we understand our own intelligence and model it on computers with ever greater accuracy, we reproduce sentient life as a matter of course. 

Or we will modify our own biology, perhaps even from birth, so much that over time we may appear to be every bit synthetic as organic, indistinguishable from an advanced AI. This too is irresistable because we will always be seeking greater health, intelligence, creativity, and strength. As long as technology offers a moral means to do so, that does not infringe on the rights to life and liberty of others, we will do so. It's inevitable.

Apparently in the Mass Effect universe, organics are far more likely to develop advanced AI first before modifying their biology to appear synthetic. Otherwise the Catalyst would not see so much conflict as to think it inevitable. This makes some intuitive sense. Intelligence and the prefrontal cortex itself may be simpler than the entire biological organism. Indeed as a subset they are simpler, but who knows, really, by what degree the part is reliant on the whole. 

Even if this is true, that synthetic life is created before organic synthesis and conflict with organics results, so to is its resolution through organic synthesis. There is no other way for the conflict to end, for even if there were no conflict, peaceful synthesis would be the result anyway. 

It's our destiny as intelligent life to use our intelligence to further our ends, to increase our lifespan, improve communication, explore new possibilities, create love, and achieve peace. Transcending our biological limitations and directing our own evolution does not in any way mean abandoning individual autonomy, our rights to life and liberty, and our sense of free will. We will still be human but also more. Some refer to this as "transhuman." Mass Effect refers to it as "Synthesis."

"Synthesis is the final evolution of life."

He's right. Synthesized life may progress even further to new forms of existence but there's no doubting that biological evolution through natural selection stops at the creation of synthesized life.

So those are the words of the Catalyst, the intelligence who controls the Reapers, and because of that some believe that choosing the Synthesis ending is submission to Reapers, as if this was the Catalyst's plan all the long. This is manifestly untrue, because the Catalyst only makes this suggestion because of Shepard's presence with the Crucible after uniting organic and synthetic life into a very large alliance. Indeed the Catalyst says it wasn't even a possibility until that moment and furthermore he needs Shepard willingness to do it. 

Once again, he needs Shepard's choice-- not indoctrination. It cannot be done against Shepard's will. 

So Shepard has the option to murder innocent life (EDI and Geth) by choosing destroy, or to sacrifice all that she is to order the Reapers to retreat against their will by choosing control, or be the vanguard of love and peace she was throughout the whole series, infusing the Crucible's energy with her compassion, and discharging it through the cosmos. She gives all life, organic and synthetic, the opportunity to have the best of both worlds, with the power and freedom to construct their lives as they see fit. 

That is the destiny of life, to live in freedom, peace, and propersity through intelligence, love, and compassion.

I see you point - raise you mine I just posted in ME3 suggestion -


Right; there has been some awesome posts -

I'll just cliff note because most have covered everything already.

One - Starchild goes against cannon set in the other games - you find out ME 1 - Reapers control the Cid; not the other way around;  Its a giant relay that they use to spring upon goverment to take out the leaders - makes it easier then to wipe out the civis.  Reason why this fails is because Proth set up the sabatosh*sp* 

Two - blowing up a mass Relay - again cannon shows us - you take one out - bye bye solar system.  Its a super nova like blast.  Talk about wth moment.  You've just become the worst genocide in history.  You have wiped out the galaxy in one of 3 color coded choices.

3 - what the hell happened to Dark matter?  It was pretty big in ME 1; and it was everywhere in ME 2??  So suddenly Dark matter is gone; we don't know why it was threat; if it was or what the hell was it?  Did it just decide to pack up and go into a black hole?  You can't leave that massive amount of cannon of the end - or if you're setting up for later - make sure you write it in.

4 - Macduff - Deus Ex Machina endning - sorry as a writer - there's no excuse for this.  Its weak writing.  I know I'm sounding harsh; but as writers we have to be willing to deal with it.  This is why we work with publishers and they smack us around when we want to do something like this.  You gave us so many amazing stories within here; just in ME3 alone; Mordin dieing curing Geophage - amazing - Legion - Thane - emergency induction port........Come on; I dont' need to say more.

5 - you said there are amazing 16 different endings.  No there is one ending that pallette change. Ok, Ok; I'll give the fact you blow up the earth or big ben also.  So 3 slightly pallette colored changing endings; or as one poor soul tweeted.  One as he's color blind.  That is all that needs to be said there.

6 - Quest system; what happened to it??  its there but then hides from you going; you got to guess if you've complete; oh you failed timed mission.  There was a timed mission?!?!  This is supposed to be an rpg; working quest log is a must.

7 - What happened to being able to go up and randomly talk to anyone?  I so missed that in ME3 - I loved the fact in ME 1 and ME 2 I could talk to anyone; didn't matter they would talk to me.  If they have something to say to me; they would; or they'd blow me; but at least they'd talk to me...and not just snub me 

Right that's out of the way.

What was done right?  Most of the game; I mean even the bits with the quest log and not being able to talk to anyone.  That didn't bug me all that much as the stories were that well put together.  You really crafted those well - this wasn't just Shepard's story - this was our Shepard's story.  We were living it; feeling it breathing it.  That's success.

Indoctrintion - if you actually meant it; its a great way to write yourself out of this mess of an ending.  Set up final fight with Harbringer or TIM if you still want; or both?  War assets allow to see how we actually do.  I mean the amount of fire power we're hold is bigger than anything the Reapers ever seen even with Protheans.  I can easily see why they tried to take down Shepard right then and there.  You take out the leader; the system........you take the fight out rest of them.  You don't.......you're screwed.

This wasn't a bittersweet ending because to end - is to give closure.  There was none; this was like a 1930's radio cliffhanger with Rockteer - Lone Ranger.   I'd prefer to have the chance to actually pull off the impossible again - that's the legend - that is what we've built over the last 3 games.  Doing the impossible; never giving up hope.......

I'd love to have blue babies with Liara with this build I have with Shepard; or my other one - build that house for Tali.....

Sure if we screw up - don't bring enough war assets; we die; you can even set it up for reapers to wipe us out; bittersweet.......we win but our Shepard dies in getting that win.  Those we can live with.  Choices - we were told they'd matter.  We weren't going to get A, B or C ending.......and you weren't doing a Lost....

Right now the way the ending is - you've done all three -  If rumors are true; this was done because of the leak - and DLC "The Truth" is actually coming - but its not finalized as you're getting our input.  I will bow to you and say bravo - because then - closure - being actually able to win or not - you will have insanely pulled off - indoctrinating not just our Shepards.........but us also - thus creating one of the best games I've played ever.  Even with those small niggles......

I sign this;

Meldarth Shepard - I WILL HOLD THE LINE

[Doppelgaenger]

When was Shepards story ever a story about the inevitability of fate? Never. That is what is wrong here.
I quote from here: http://social.biowar...ndex/10022779/1

"6. Shepherd is not a tragic hero. A common debate I see is between people who think there should be a happy ending and people who think such an ending would be out of place or impossible, sometimes refering to Shepherd as "tragic". The simple fact is, Shepherd has no tragic flaw nor does he make a tragic mistake; had such a tragic characteristic existed, it could be a foregone conclusion he would die. Overcoming the Reapers may be an impossible task, but the impossible is
routinely overcome in the Mass Effect trilogy and other epics. As is, there is nothing in the story that would railroad Shepherd towards an inevitable demise, the difficulty of his task makes his death likely, but there's nothing that should remove the possibility of a happy ending. This may be why many people want a "happy" or "brighter" ending, there's no setup nor payoff to Shepherd's death and without those it may feel cheap; storytelling is all about setup and payoff.

For an example of a good tragic hero, look no farther than Mordin Solus. His tragic mistake was the creation of the genophage. When a desperate need for krogan intervention arose and the genophage was the reason they refused, Mordin fulfilled his tragic role by sacrificing and redeeming himself. There's a big setup for the genophage throughout the series and Mordin's involvement is setup in the second game as a huge internal conflict for him. In three, this all pays off beautifully with either his redemption or brutal murder at Shepherd's hands before he can succeed. This is proper execution for a tragic character. From what I've seen, this is one of the most beloved and well-received storylines in the game; compare that to the ending's reception."

"Mass Effect is a conventional story with conventional expectations" (See the other thread for further detail)

In essence this is the wrong ending for this game, because it is the wrong ending for this type of story. That it is badly executed only adds to this.

Your answers to DarkRavin07's questions are guesswork. An ending should give closure. Some drivel won't do. And this is what we got for an ending, some drivel where at the end everyone is confused and nothing resolved.

[talk_sick]

@AtlasMickey

Sorry to say this man (or gal - don't know really, so just choose the correct one here) - you obviously have very low standards.

First - it's not about how grim or how sugar coated the ending is.

The problem here, is that the angle for ME3 is "war for earth has begun, you decide HOW IT ENDS", not "you choose the color of the explosion that ends it"

Also - how many endings do you think there are in ME3? If your answer was anything else than ONE, then you are simply wrong.

There is exactly one ending in ME3, and that's what's wrong with it.

I know - you are probably thinking - but there are 3 choies etc. No - there aren't. The space kid shows up, and there is only one choice - sacrifice yourself for the cause, and you get to choose the color of the space magic beam.

As for what it does - it's anyone's guess.
If you choose blue, the reapers fly away (not very far though, because with the mass relays gone, they are stuck in sol system - I suppose they get a lifetime pass to Brazzers, to have something to do with their time, now that they're not zapping the galaxy).

Or you choose red, and stuff gets incinerated. Do the geth really die? Who knows - all we have is the space kid's word for it, and his explanation is already so full of dung it only makes sense to the most retarded people on the planet.

Or if your armada is big enough, the space brat graciously allows you to choose green explosion, and everyone just stands there, looking stupid.


That, plus Normandy.

Care to explain how in the world Liara, who was the love of my Shepard's life (and vice versa) finds herself on the Normandy, apparently uninjured? Shepard was a few yards away, struggling to make it into the conduit, and Liara, perfectly ok suddenly decided she doesn't love Shepard, and it's a good time to run off with Joker before anyone takes notice?

I don't buy it.


That the ending is full of holes is one thing. The other, is that very idea, upon which the series was built - that our decisions matter, and the choices we make along the way influence the outcome of the game goes right out the window.

In the most important confrontation of the whole series (the space kid, deus ex machina, whatever you call that), Shepard can't even choose what to say. At the last minute, BW decided to take away our choice, and force on us an arbitrary ending, that they feel is apropriate.

Except Mass Effect is not "BioWare's story of BioWare commander Shepard, as told by BioWare"

It's "MY story of MY commander Shepard, as told within the narrative framework set down by BioWare" - that's how RPGs work (and that's what 15 years of being a GM in classic pnp rpgs has taught me).


Not to mention, that the ending is so completely out of character it hurts my brain just to think about it.

No - I don't mean Shepard's sacrifice - we all knew this was likely a suicide mission - victory at any cost, etc. I'm talking about Shepard's sudden, unquestioning acceptance of the Reaper's explanation and choices that they lay before him. After 3 games of defying the reapers at every turn? I don't buy that!


And what's with the sacrifice anyway? The Crucible was built over many millenia, by super advanced races, with the sole purpose of ending the reaper threat - why the hell does it need medieval voodoo to operate? To appease the kid? How about a nice shrubbery instead? Couldn't the other races have pre-programmed the crucible with the desired outcome?


That's even dumber than building a space station with an exhaust port that leads directly into the generator.

[stcalvin13]

1. Why in God's name does starchild need shepard's choice. Shepard sure doesn't seem to need anyone else's.
2. If my destiny is to give EDI a new color visor, then screw destiny, I'm ending this mother with a big fricking explosion.

[Rhz]

AtlasMickey wrote...

DarkRavin07 wrote...

Why was joker running?

To save the lives of the people aboard Normandy. If you saw the Citadel explode in an orb of light, and you were my pilot, I'd hope you do the same. AtreiyaN7 says it best and, if you need more regarding Joker, you should follow her posts. Joker blames himself for Shepard's death at the beginning of ME2. Maybe he learned from that mistake.

What space magic got my crew onto Normandy?

No magic, just an ordinary shuttle. They were either ordered to retreat or left on their own volition. They all said their good-byes and expressed their reluctance to be part of yet another suicide mission.

If you had a fondness for your love interest, or liked any of the other characters, it would not have been right to ask them to be part of a second suicide mission.

everyone running to the beam died -- somehow your squad mates survived and - what? they retreaded - got picked up by a shuttle and returning to the normandy without beeing sure if shepard survived? I dont think so

they would have been killed by the reaper or made it into the beam, I dont see any other options here

and hell .. "it would not have been right to ask them to be part of a second suicide mission" ... they would, regardless if you ask for their help or not