127 réponses à ce sujet

[NormanRawn]

AtlasMickey wrote...

The apparent sameness of the endings and lack of choice is a statement about inevitability regarding organics and synthetics. 

The Catalyst believes that conflict between organics and synthetics is inevitable. Most people in the Mass Effect universe share this view, evidenced by the fact that the creation of AI is illegal and considered so dangerous that it's spoken of in hushed tones. However, making something illegal does not stop it from happening, particularly with something so amazing and life-changing as AI. Its creation is inevitable, because it's just so valuable.

It's simply irresistable, because we seek to understand ourselves. As we understand our own intelligence and model it on computers with ever greater accuracy, we reproduce sentient life as a matter of course. 

Or we will modify our own biology, perhaps even from birth, so much that over time we may appear to be every bit synthetic as organic, indistinguishable from an advanced AI. This too is irresistable because we will always be seeking greater health, intelligence, creativity, and strength. As long as technology offers a moral means to do so, that does not infringe on the rights to life and liberty of others, we will do so. It's inevitable.

Apparently in the Mass Effect universe, organics are far more likely to develop advanced AI first before modifying their biology to appear synthetic. Otherwise the Catalyst would not see so much conflict as to think it inevitable. This makes some intuitive sense. Intelligence and the prefrontal cortex itself may be simpler than the entire biological organism. Indeed as a subset they are simpler, but who knows, really, by what degree the part is reliant on the whole. 

Even if this is true, that synthetic life is created before organic synthesis and conflict with organics results, so to is its resolution through organic synthesis. There is no other way for the conflict to end, for even if there were no conflict, peaceful synthesis would be the result anyway. 

It's our destiny as intelligent life to use our intelligence to further our ends, to increase our lifespan, improve communication, explore new possibilities, create love, and achieve peace. Transcending our biological limitations and directing our own evolution does not in any way mean abandoning individual autonomy, our rights to life and liberty, and our sense of free will. We will still be human but also more. Some refer to this as "transhuman." Mass Effect refers to it as "Synthesis."

"Synthesis is the final evolution of life."

He's right. Synthesized life may progress even further to new forms of existence but there's no doubting that biological evolution through natural selection stops at the creation of synthesized life.

So those are the words of the Catalyst, the intelligence who controls the Reapers, and because of that some believe that choosing the Synthesis ending is submission to Reapers, as if this was the Catalyst's plan all the long. This is manifestly untrue, because the Catalyst only makes this suggestion because of Shepard's presence with the Crucible after uniting organic and synthetic life into a very large alliance. Indeed the Catalyst says it wasn't even a possibility until that moment and furthermore he needs Shepard willingness to do it. 

Once again, he needs Shepard's choice-- not indoctrination. It cannot be done against Shepard's will. 

So Shepard has the option to murder innocent life (EDI and Geth) by choosing destroy, or to sacrifice all that she is to order the Reapers to retreat against their will by choosing control, or be the vanguard of love and peace she was throughout the whole series, infusing the Crucible's energy with her compassion, and discharging it through the cosmos. She gives all life, organic and synthetic, the opportunity to have the best of both worlds, with the power and freedom to construct their lives as they see fit. 

That is the destiny of life, to live in freedom, peace, and propersity through intelligence, love, and compassion.

"The apparent sameness of the endings and lack of choice is a statement about inevitability regarding organics and synthetics. "

Many fans do not believe this is an inevitablility. They believe that the galaxy can resolve these problems before total destruction of one side over the other. I personally think this belief of inevitability is pessimistic and against what we have been shown when solving generations old conflicts in ME3.

[JesseLee202]

You say Joker was running from the explosion, but why was the SR2 the only ship running? Why run if everyone else stays to fight? No way that all the ships would run away.

[JamieCOTC]

DarkRavin07 wrote...

Why was joker running?
What space magic got my crew onto Normandy?
No Relays, how will the sol solar system support a fleet of that size?
What happens to all your crew, you'll squadmates, friends.. ect?

Need more space magic...

This.  The meanings of the ending is clear, what happened in the ending is not. 

[Hedera]

NormanRawn wrote...


"The apparent sameness of the endings and lack of choice is a statement about inevitability regarding organics and synthetics. "

Many fans do not believe this is an inevitablility. They believe that the galaxy can resolve these problems before total destruction of one side over the other. I personally think this belief of inevitability is pessimistic and against what we have been shown when solving generations old conflicts in ME3.

Indeed.  I'd like to add that the being presenting this conundrum hasn't had the experiences Shepard has had with AI, as its statements would show.  Further, it openly admits to being allied with the Reapers to the extent it controls their Cycles.  It is essentially the primary antagonist, being the cause of the entire series and its primary conflict.  The fact that Shepard so easily drops her (his) guard and doesn't question the being's statements implies the developers taking a design choice that, to them will provoke discussions such as these.  What they didn't bank on is the attachment many of us developed to the universe, characters, and to Shepard herself (himself).  Where they saw an interesting conundrum with incredibly deep meaning, and a way to really look into the definition of 'being alive' and the ramifications of AI tech, we saw a cheap railroading.  While I admit their choice of action may have been made in good faith, we already have games that discuss this topic (such as the excellent Deus Ex series) that have more connections to it.  

The interesting choice and ethically complex meanings are lost on a fanbase that has, up until this point, seen absolutely NONE of this sort of storytelling.  It would be an excellent ending to the series, I'm sure, if the previous games hadn't already set a precedent for relative realism, groundedness, and deliberate storytelling mechanics.  The sudden switch to moral quandaries and double meaning is the reason the endings fall so flat for so many people, and is the main reason so many are upset.  The call for a new ending isn't a direct attack on BioWare's writing ability for the most part, it's an attack on their ham-handed attempt to inject deeper meaning into the last five minutes of a sci-fi epic that had no intrinsic metaphorical meaning before.

And yes, I do realize there are many metaphors throughout, but those are suddenly dropped at the last minute in favor of this singularity.  There is so much to prove that this Cycle is different, yet the endings do not allow for such reason to penetrate the cloud of hidden meaning.  Oh, and the Relays all blowing up is dumb.

[DrDetective]

The series isn't about AI until the last five minutes. It could have ended literally any other way and been a hell of a lot better.

[azerSheppard]

AtlasMickey wrote...
*snip*

While i agree with the underlying meaning of the endings, i do however question the lackluster execution of said pieces, very little context is given, not to mention the failure of a conversation with the star child.
Mac Walters states that he shortened it up to create discussion, this is often done in cases in which the ending is lackluster, and the writer is uncapable of binding it into something with context. Notice the lack of speech after the color decision.

I found Drew Karphysyns view of the ME universe to be magnificent, and have been a fan ever since i first read the codex of the first game. I loved how Drews views on the IP where "scientific" (albeit redicilously defiant to newtonian physics), to end such a franchise with a mystic -i don't know how to write scifi- ending was a grievious mistake.

The IP is now DEAD, as there is no room for post ME3 material, and face it prequels will never fill the void. (3 guesses why the star wars prequels failed; here's a hint, PREQUELS).

DrDetective wrote...

The series isn't about AI until the last five minutes. It could have ended literally any other way and been a hell of a lot better.

 
"We impose order on the chaos that is organics"
Sounds like something an AI would state, what game were you playing again?

Modifié par azerSheppard, 18 mars 2012 - 01:38 .

[PrinceLionheart]

DrDetective wrote...

The series isn't about AI until the last five minutes. It could have ended literally any other way and been a hell of a lot better.

This. Hell, the ending as it was would've been fine if there was actually real build up to it. The entire second half of the game revolved around finding a solution to, you guessed it, finding peace between the synthetics and organics. EDI's entire character arc can be described as What Measure is a Non-Human?

Everything about the Catalyst was a giant asspull because it was a complete reversal of what the narrative was building up to. It was a "shocking twist" for the sake of having a twist.

azerSheppard wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...
*snip*

While i agree with the underlying meaning of the endings, i do however question the lackluster execution of said pieces, very little context is given, not to mention the failure of a conversation with the star child.
Mac Walters states that he shortened it up to create discussion, this is often done in cases in which the ending is lackluster, and the writer is uncapable of binding it into something with context. Notice the lack of speech after the color decision.

 

I honestly believe the conversation was shortened because it would've completely punched holes in the Star Child's logic:

SC: Organics and Synthetics will never live a peace.
Shepard: But I just spent the second half of the game making a truce between the Geth and Quarians.
SC: Trust me, it won't last.
Shepard: But the Geth are rebuilding the Quarians home and even improving their immune systems.
SC: Yeah but..
Shepard: And my friend Joker even has an A.I as a girlfriend.

Modifié par PrinceLionheart, 18 mars 2012 - 01:42 .

[thesnake777]

I respect your view point. I dont agree with it. As far as i'm concerned Synthesis is Reaper Harvesting Lite.
But I do believe regardless there is a serious issue with how an ending is portrayed if this much thought and time has to be put into explaining what just happened.

[StarcloudSWG]

It could've ended in many different ways. The fact that Casey Hudson chose to put a slapdash incomplete halt to the story in, instead of an ending, in no way indicates that ME 3 *had* to end the way it did.

The story is unfinished and incomplete. Bioware needs to complete the story. Period.

[Shiran]

AtlasMickey,

I just finally finished the game a few hours ago, and I am so glad to see that some people understand this. I really boggles my mind that so many others expect some sort of Star Wars like celebration with fireworks and cheering.

It was clear since the beggining of episode 3 that Shepard will not survive. Than reads a prayer for him. Shepard responds to it with "You won't be alone for long"

Lets put things into perspective here: You can find blue giant suns surrounded by energy generators. Think about it. The civilization is to the point where they decided: Oh, our own sun here doesn't provide enough energy, we need to travel to another Star system with a freaking BLUE GIANT and no habitable planets and surround it by energy collectors so we have enough juice. And than Reapers roll in and they can just take all of this out in a space of less than 100 years, just like that. And you somehow expect to make it through all of this alive with crew unscathed?

In regards to some questions raised here:

In my play through I did not see my final squad members on Normandy after she crashed. I, of course, did not take Ashley (my partner) since it was pretty clear I won't be able to make it. Joker, EDI and Ashley were the ones who came out from the hatch that I saw. Which makes sense for my play through. Type of people who take their LI with them into final squad are same people who let Kel'Reeger die and get Tali exiled. Just so incredibly selfish and messed up.

I understand that some people see members of their final squad. I agree, that a clarification on that would be nice, but than again it never explained how you and your squad make it out from Thessia either. It's crawling with Reapers, extraction would seem ... problematic. Well, sometimes gameplay > story.

As of Normandy, people seem to think it travelled to Charon's relay and did a jump from there... Why would it need to do that where citadel realy was right there active with petals open? There was plenty of time as Wave was engulfing Earth for a pilot to realise what is happening and book it via Citadel relay. The Citadel doesn't fire the Wave to connecting relays until some time later.

Anyhow, I, personally, is very happy with ending. Sure, I would like to know more, but that what makes it so very very good. Also, of course I view ending as a summary of what happened to all the being Shepard interacted with in through out all 3 episodes. Not just one 5 minute sequence at the very end.

[JesseLee202]

Shiran wrote...

AtlasMickey,

I just finally finished the game a few hours ago, and I am so glad to see that some people understand this. I really boggles my mind that so many others expect some sort of Star Wars like celebration with fireworks and cheering.

It was clear since the beggining of episode 3 that Shepard will not survive. Than reads a prayer for him. Shepard responds to it with "You won't be alone for long"

Lets put things into perspective here: You can find blue giant suns surrounded by energy generators. Think about it. The civilization is to the point where they decided: Oh, our own sun here doesn't provide enough energy, we need to travel to another Star system with a freaking BLUE GIANT and no habitable planets and surround it by energy collectors so we have enough juice. And than Reapers roll in and they can just take all of this out in a space of less than 100 years, just like that. And you somehow expect to make it through all of this alive with crew unscathed?

In regards to some questions raised here:

In my play through I did not see my final squad members on Normandy after she crashed. I, of course, did not take Ashley (my partner) since it was pretty clear I won't be able to make it. Joker, EDI and Ashley were the ones who came out from the hatch that I saw. Which makes sense for my play through. Type of people who take their LI with them into final squad are same people who let Kel'Reeger die and get Tali exiled. Just so incredibly selfish and messed up.

I understand that some people see members of their final squad. I agree, that a clarification on that would be nice, but than again it never explained how you and your squad make it out from Thessia either. It's crawling with Reapers, extraction would seem ... problematic. Well, sometimes gameplay > story.

As of Normandy, people seem to think it travelled to Charon's relay and did a jump from there... Why would it need to do that where citadel realy was right there active with petals open? There was plenty of time as Wave was engulfing Earth for a pilot to realise what is happening and book it via Citadel relay. The Citadel doesn't fire the Wave to connecting relays until some time later.

Anyhow, I, personally, is very happy with ending. Sure, I would like to know more, but that what makes it so very very good. Also, of course I view ending as a summary of what happened to all the being Shepard interacted with in through out all 3 episodes. Not just one 5 minute sequence at the very end.

You do realize that your entire squad is on the ground fighting, while the SR2 is in the battle above? Even if you did not choose her, she would still be in the ground battle... 

[Darkspwan hero]

Synthesis is the final evolution of life THis will never be this would mean the end of Life

[ashwind]

Someone With Mass wrote...

While that is true, you have to remember that we're talking about an AI that's hopefully going by the more logical choices. If they're so smart, then why couldn't they find a more permanent solution that doesn't involve mass genocide?

I know what you are saying. I feel the same. I wanted to slap that StarKid too.

My point is that the Reapers are like some old guys who "thinks" that they know everything. It is not that they "couldnt" find another solution, it is because they think that their "soulution" is the absolute best.

Just because they think that their smart does not make them smart. It only make them narrow minded.

They are like: We know it all, this is the best way. What do you primitive organics know? Dont tell me what is right or wrong kid, I have lived more cycles than your civilizations have existed for earth years.

We do not need to agree or see reason in their logic. We cannot relate to them. They see the galaxy, sense the galaxy differently from us.

We are defined by our experience and the Reapers experience things that we cannot. See how EDI started to change when she got Eva's body? The experience started to change her.

That is the beauty and complexity of the "Control" ending. If Shepard becomes the Catalyst, Shepard will lose everything he is. He will start to experience the galaxy in ways beyond human comprehension. A million years from now, Shepard will no longer remember what it is like to touch, to eat a Cheese Burger... he will lose every trace of humanity he once had. He will become the Catalyst, the Reaper. 

A new cycle could begin... This time, Shepard is the Catalyst and the Reapers his "solution". They young races then too will not be able to understand Shepard's "logic".

[ashwind]

Darkspwan hero wrote...

Synthesis is the final evolution of life THis will never be this would mean the end of Life

There is a huge possibility that the final evolution of life is Synthesis. Especially with organics replacing their body with implants to prolong their lifespan, to make them stronger, to make them immune to disease, etc.

This is even what some scientist of our time is speculating. Humans may slowly replace themselves with more tech.

However, the moral conflict of this Choice is:
Who is Shepard to make that decision for everyone? Shepard himself said, part of being organic is to be able to decide for themselves. For better for worse. That decision has to be made by each individual, each civilization. This decision must never be forced on them. Shepard making this huge decision for the galaxy is like raping everyone's free will. 

[Shiran]

[quote]JesseLee202 wrote...

[quote]Shiran wrote...

You do realize that your entire squad is on the ground fighting, while the SR2 is in the battle above? Even if you did not choose her, she would still be in the ground battle... 

[/quote]

I am actually not sure about that. I never hear them in the radio chatter during final approach. And I'd like to believe if they were there, I would've never "lost my left flank"

Also, even if they were I do remember call for evac after Mako was killed.

Look, I am not blind to what I see as general problem in ME Univese, the Scale problem. Tramendous technological advances required to run galaxy wide colonisation, combined with ground based "one 3 men squad can do anything!" approach. From that angle of attack none of this make sense. On Thessia, why did Cortez not just drop Shepard off at the entrance to the temple? If it only takes 2 Thanix missiles to knockdown a (small) reaper, why did it require 3 precise strikes from ENTIRETY of quarian fleet while Shepard was practicing his "Can't Touch This" dance in front of it? Etc etc. 

In the light of all that went on, I do find ending touching and appropriate ... Sure, more closure would be nice, but I think image of Joker and EDI side hugging each other at the Lost Island is just about ... perfect.

[Darkspwan hero]

ashwind wrote...

Darkspwan hero wrote...

Synthesis is the final evolution of life THis will never be this would mean the end of Life

There is a huge possibility that the final evolution of life is Synthesis. Especially with organics replacing their body with implants to prolong their lifespan, to make them stronger, to make them immune to disease, etc.

This is even what some scientist of our time is speculating. Humans may slowly replace themselves with more tech.

However, the moral conflict of this Choice is:
Who is Shepard to make that decision for everyone? Shepard himself said, part of being organic is to be able to decide for themselves. For better for worse. That decision has to be made by each individual, each civilization. This decision must never be forced on them. Shepard making this huge decision for the galaxy is like raping everyone's free will. 

well some people have robot part on them today not many. So in the in end we may be like vader and I wonder who would this effect having kids being fully Synthesis. As for being a immune to diseases  they will find a way to get us they always had lol

Modifié par Darkspwan hero, 18 mars 2012 - 04:38 .

[mauro2222]

What's wrong with a "Star Wars like celebration with fireworks and cheering"?

[mauro2222]

Shiran wrote...

In my play through I did not see my final squad members on Normandy after she crashed. I, of course, did not take Ashley (my partner) since it was pretty clear I won't be able to make it. Joker, EDI and Ashley were the ones who came out from the hatch that I saw. Which makes sense for my play through. Type of people who take their LI with them into final squad are same people who let Kel'Reeger die and get Tali exiled. Just so incredibly selfish and messed up.

Ok...

[Nejeli]

AtlasMickey wrote...

This is manifestly untrue, because the Catalyst only makes this suggestion because of Shepard's presence with the Crucible after uniting organic and synthetic life into a very large alliance.

Unless you killed the Geth. You don't have to create peace between the Quarians and Geth to get the Synthesis ending, and I highly doubt that EDI alone would count.

Once again, he needs Shepard's choice-- not indoctrination. It cannot be done against Shepard's will.

Why? Was it ever explained why an indoctrinated character couldn't do it? I can understand for the Control ending, because they would just be controlling themselves, but why couldn't the Catalyst have TIM pick what option it wanted? Why couldn't it have used Shepard? If TIM could control Shepard, even a little bit, surely the Catalyst could. Why did it have to Shepard's choice? And if the Catalyst could come to realize that it's current plan of action wouldn't work anymore, why couldn't it have been made to realize that maybe some other option would have worked better than the ones it was suggesting?

So Shepard has the option to murder innocent life (EDI and Geth) by choosing destroy, or to sacrifice all that she is to order the Reapers to retreat against their will by choosing control, or be the vanguard of love and peace she was throughout the whole series, infusing the Crucible's energy with her compassion, and discharging it through the cosmos. She gives all life, organic and synthetic, the opportunity to have the best of both worlds, with the power and freedom to construct their lives as they see fit. 

That is the destiny of life, to live in freedom, peace, and propersity through intelligence, love, and compassion.

Except that organics, even humans, are more than peace, love, and good will. Even a paragon Shepard is more than those things, and it's not like the beam is going to pick and choose what traits it sends on. What would have happened to the Quarians if the Geth had been able to feel anger or resentment? You think the Geth would have just let them leave? You think they would have been as open to talks of peace? The Quarians certainly weren't. And look at the Krogans. Merging synthetics and organics in no way guarantees a peaceful and enlightened existence.

No magic, just an ordinary shuttle. They were either ordered to retreat
or left on their own volition. They all said their good-byes and
expressed their reluctance to be part of yet another suicide mission.

Really? Kaidan is just going to leave after his 'I'll fight through hell to see you on the other side' line? Garrus is just going to run off after saying that if they failed there his people were pretty much goners, and it would be because of his choices? And James? Earth is his planet, he's been wanting all game to get back to it, and... he's not going to try and see things through, even though it's been implied pretty much the whole game that this is their only chance of winning? I didn't see a lot of reluctance from my other crewmates, either, except from EDI but she was experiencing fear for the first time, so it's understandable. Even if they did decide to leave, what shuttles are they going to take? The one Steve flew in crashed, and I imagine any other shuttles, if there are any other working shuttles, are going to be filled on a 'first come, first on' basis. I would at least expect that my party would be out of luck, as they were furthest from, well, everything but the fighting. But say they did find a shuttle, they were in the middle of the hot zone. There were mutiple Reapers converging on the area, the area was swarmed with various husk types, and there was a huge space battle going on that they would have had to fly through to reach the Normandy. That's a lot of chance, and not enough time for it to realistically happen, at least for the members I took with me to the beam, yet they still ended up on the Normandy.

[durasteel]

I do not mean to offend, or to start an argument in your thread, but simply stated: reading through the fan feedback on the BSN I have stumbled across at least a half dozen other ways it could have ended, several of which make a lot more sense than this.

The star child's "because I say so" pronouncements and the three choices which your entire trilogy is reduced to are so jarring and incongruous that they snap the viewer out of the narrative and the moment. You don't end the game as Shepard, you end it as an outside observer trying to figure out what the hell is happening to Shepard.

We are conditioned to accept a certain amount of space magic, but digitizing Shepard into a universal virus (retrovirus and computer virus) that is distributed throughout the galaxy through a cascade of green explosions is just much too much, for me anyway.

If this is a friendly green explosion, why did it trash the Normandy? What did the friendly green explosion do to the rest of the fleet? Why was the Citadel destroyed in Green while not in Blue?

This isn't saving the galaxy. Shepard wasn't fighting the reapers because they called his momma fat, he was trying to save the galaxy and its people. If the galaxy is plunged into a dark age, Shepard failed. Say whatever you want to about "bittersweet" endings, but if you think it is necessary for Shepard to fail you're not going to find a lot of support here.

Modifié par durasteel, 18 mars 2012 - 04:52 .

[Shiran]

Of course this is saving the galaxy. It didn't get "harvested" (reaped) therefore it is saved. The technology is still there, including mass effect fields and FTL drives. Traveling between solar systems is quite possible (Normandy does it all the time) Yes, millions on outposts that relied on resupplies from mass effect relays will perish, just like millions (billions) already perished in reaper attacks. But, especially given synthesis ending (best ending IMO) this of little consequence in a greater scheme of things.

Really, what did you expect Shepard to do? "Uh, I refuse to pick anything, and just kill myself!" In which case Catalyst goes back to pre Crucible installation behavior and finishes the cycle with Reaping.

As to why Catalyst destroyed in Red and Green endings it is because it is no longer needed of course. In Blue it is needed to continue maintaining Control.

Modifié par Shiran, 18 mars 2012 - 07:03 .

[hchadw]

AtlasMickey wrote...

The apparent sameness of the endings and lack of choice is a statement about inevitability regarding organics and synthetics. 

The Catalyst believes that conflict between organics and synthetics is inevitable. Most people in the Mass Effect universe share this view, evidenced by the fact that the creation of AI is illegal and considered so dangerous that it's spoken of in hushed tones. However, making something illegal does not stop it from happening, particularly with something so amazing and life-changing as AI. Its creation is inevitable, because it's just so valuable.

It's simply irresistable, because we seek to understand ourselves. As we understand our own intelligence and model it on computers with ever greater accuracy, we reproduce sentient life as a matter of course. 

Or we will modify our own biology, perhaps even from birth, so much that over time we may appear to be every bit synthetic as organic, indistinguishable from an advanced AI. This too is irresistable because we will always be seeking greater health, intelligence, creativity, and strength. As long as technology offers a moral means to do so, that does not infringe on the rights to life and liberty of others, we will do so. It's inevitable.

Apparently in the Mass Effect universe, organics are far more likely to develop advanced AI first before modifying their biology to appear synthetic. Otherwise the Catalyst would not see so much conflict as to think it inevitable. This makes some intuitive sense. Intelligence and the prefrontal cortex itself may be simpler than the entire biological organism. Indeed as a subset they are simpler, but who knows, really, by what degree the part is reliant on the whole. 

Even if this is true, that synthetic life is created before organic synthesis and conflict with organics results, so to is its resolution through organic synthesis. There is no other way for the conflict to end, for even if there were no conflict, peaceful synthesis would be the result anyway. 

It's our destiny as intelligent life to use our intelligence to further our ends, to increase our lifespan, improve communication, explore new possibilities, create love, and achieve peace. Transcending our biological limitations and directing our own evolution does not in any way mean abandoning individual autonomy, our rights to life and liberty, and our sense of free will. We will still be human but also more. Some refer to this as "transhuman." Mass Effect refers to it as "Synthesis."

"Synthesis is the final evolution of life."

He's right. Synthesized life may progress even further to new forms of existence but there's no doubting that biological evolution through natural selection stops at the creation of synthesized life.

So those are the words of the Catalyst, the intelligence who controls the Reapers, and because of that some believe that choosing the Synthesis ending is submission to Reapers, as if this was the Catalyst's plan all the long. This is manifestly untrue, because the Catalyst only makes this suggestion because of Shepard's presence with the Crucible after uniting organic and synthetic life into a very large alliance. Indeed the Catalyst says it wasn't even a possibility until that moment and furthermore he needs Shepard willingness to do it. 

Once again, he needs Shepard's choice-- not indoctrination. It cannot be done against Shepard's will. 

So Shepard has the option to murder innocent life (EDI and Geth) by choosing destroy, or to sacrifice all that she is to order the Reapers to retreat against their will by choosing control, or be the vanguard of love and peace she was throughout the whole series, infusing the Crucible's energy with her compassion, and discharging it through the cosmos. She gives all life, organic and synthetic, the opportunity to have the best of both worlds, with the power and freedom to construct their lives as they see fit. 

That is the destiny of life, to live in freedom, peace, and propersity through intelligence, love, and compassion.

My shepard got the Geth and Quarians to get along so.................. that ADHD GOD Boy Guardian CAN stuff it... an Organic (namely Me) did what IT couldnt do but yet i have to submit to ITS choices ... bah Humbug.....

Modifié par hchadw, 18 mars 2012 - 07:09 .

[Asuro]

DrDetective wrote...

The series isn't about AI until the last five minutes. It could have ended literally any other way and been a hell of a lot better.

Thats a false statement. The entire Mass Effect 1 was about AI and synthetics, it played a major role in Mass Effect 2 and 3 as well.

[Jarradane]

That doesn't change the fact that Shepard has personally experienced events that contradict every point the catalyst brought up, yet refused to even mention something.

The quarians attacked the geth, and the geth tried to prevent the war eventually pushing them out of their system to spare them.
The geth and the quarians are now coexisting and helping each other.
Edi helps Shepard, and becomes romantically involved.
Etc, etc.

It felt like you were meant to have one final philosophical discussion, eventually either convincing the catalyst to withdraw the reapers based on your past actions (which is where your choices come into play), but the dialog options were simply missing.

In my opinion, Shepard should have died with Anderson, whether the crucible did something or not wouldn't matter.
Perhaps it wouldn't fire and the outcome depends on ems, or perhaps it will only fire if you have a certain crucible points value, I don't know.

Magically exploding the mass relays without destroying every system (like the canon says it should), and somehow rewriting the galaxy's dna was kind of wrong for the universe.

[Shiran]

Jarradane,

"Convincing the Catalyst to withdraw the Reapers" is what "Control" ending is about. That is it precisely. There is a difference between slamming a bloody meteor into powered up relay, vs making relay release its energy in a controlled manner by passing message through it. One is like popping an over inflated baloon, another is more akin to letting it deflate in rapid but controlled manner.