88 réponses à ce sujet

[Bryan Johnson]

Lionheartwolf wrote...

im kind of curious about what kind of exploits Bryan was talking about. at best you disconnect at the end of a credit match and save yourself the time it takes to let the enemy kill you instead of going onto 11 but thats about it. i mean you still have to make it to that wave and complete the objective.

personally, when i start to notice the warning signs of a bad connection and i dont think its going to make it to the next credit round we wash that match and make sure we at least get what we earned. i would like to have the comfort of knowing that we can push on without being punished for something we have no control over.

The way this would be abused is during host migration. Say you are on wave 10 with 4 people, you complete the objective round so now everyone has credits. 3 of the players leave (not the host, via disconnect or quitting because we can all agree it is not hard to fake a disconnect) so they get their credits they earned from wave 10. 3 more players (friends because you can join in progress) join the game. Host now leaves the game (with their credits they have earned), so host migration occurs a new host is choosen and the wave restarts (including objective) and now another player joins.

Back to 4 players again (could even be the original 4 that were in the game to begin with) and now they complete wave 10 all over again, earning the credits (again).

This kind of thing could be an endless cycle thus being able to get (in the case of gold) nearly 50k credits (for 4 people) in less than 5minutes and is repeatable.


I can not comment for sure if this is the reason, but with a Quality Assurance mindset, this is one way I could think of that a reward on disconnect could be abused.

[Lionheartwolf]

ah i see now, yeah i guess that does make sense. im not normally on the side that doesnt disconnect i wasnt aware that you can restart a wave that way.

[axjross]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Lionheartwolf wrote...

im kind of curious about what kind of exploits Bryan was talking about. at best you disconnect at the end of a credit match and save yourself the time it takes to let the enemy kill you instead of going onto 11 but thats about it. i mean you still have to make it to that wave and complete the objective.

personally, when i start to notice the warning signs of a bad connection and i dont think its going to make it to the next credit round we wash that match and make sure we at least get what we earned. i would like to have the comfort of knowing that we can push on without being punished for something we have no control over.

The way this would be abused is during host migration. Say you are on wave 10 with 4 people, you complete the objective round so now everyone has credits. 3 of the players leave (not the host, via disconnect or quitting because we can all agree it is not hard to fake a disconnect) so they get their credits they earned from wave 10. 3 more players (friends because you can join in progress) join the game. Host now leaves the game (with their credits they have earned), so host migration occurs a new host is choosen and the wave restarts (including objective) and now another player joins.

Back to 4 players again (could even be the original 4 that were in the game to begin with) and now they complete wave 10 all over again, earning the credits (again).

This kind of thing could be an endless cycle thus being able to get (in the case of gold) nearly 50k credits (for 4 people) in less than 5minutes and is repeatable.


I can not comment for sure if this is the reason, but with a Quality Assurance mindset, this is one way I could think of that a reward on disconnect could be abused.

Can join in progress? News to me. I've tried, guess I've never been lucky enough to have someone quit said match.

Modifié par axjross, 24 mars 2012 - 04:56 .

[Icinix]

Spending 7 days without being able to complete an MP match nearly killed playing it for me - fortunately I stumbled across a fix which has helped heaps but has increased lag - but watching countless XP and Gold build up and lose it was frustrating.

So even if its just a complimentary 5000 credit pack for every 3 waves you complete and disconnect - that would be enough to make it a little better. Just something. Anything really.

But having 60,000 XP and a pile of gold and disconnecting on wave 10 is a killer, watching it happen 5 times in a row is enough to make you want to put your controller of choice through your screen of choice.

[Twisted and Mean]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

We are investigating issues with disconnection, but as been pointed out if players were to keep all progress on disconnect there would be a lot of exploits.

Funny how we keep hearing about potential exploits, while I can't think of a single one. The monetary rewards get progressively bigger, so there is no real point in quitting before wave 10. You might want to quit just before the extraction then, but really, who would even care? Even if you do quit at that time it just saves you a few minutes max.

When you pit these things agains a lot of honest players, who get disconnected every second game, loosing all the money and experience they've earned, I think their gameplay experience should get priority over EA pockets. Maybe the management over there hasn't heard of this "new thing" called customer lifetime value, but that's a big thing when it comes to revenue.

Modifié par Twisted and Mean, 24 mars 2012 - 05:06 .

[Highlord Heian]

swjobson wrote...

stu_ wrote...

swjobson wrote...

Call of Duty gives immediate rewards as the game is being played. There is no wave of drop exploits... of course, Infinity Ward has a much better system by all measures and isnt milking their paying customers for money...

This made me chuckle.

swjobson wrote...

 Infinity Ward has a much better system by all measures and isnt
milking their paying customers for money...

swjobson wrote...
 
isnt
milking their paying customers for money...

swjobson wrote...

 
isnt
milking their paying customers for money...

ahh Call of Duty the same **** every release just different maps!


CoD is the Epitome of milking people for the same rehashed crap.

you clearly havent payed attention. IW makes significant improvements on each title, unlockable content is achievement based not a lottery that prompts you for more money, and DLC is actual new content only. if you want to be hater then dont butt heads with me on this

Lol. Somebody said "hater". There's a CoD jockey through and through.

CoD is recycling the same game. Nothing new. Nothing interesting. Different shuffle of items and abilities - don't kid yourself into thinking that they're innovating with each game they churn out

[Highlord Heian]

Twisted and Mean wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

We are investigating issues with disconnection, but as been pointed out if players were to keep all progress on disconnect there would be a lot of exploits.

Funny how we keep hearing about potential exploits, while I can't think of a single one. The monetary rewards get progressively bigger, so there is no real point in quitting before wave 10. You might want to quit just before the extraction then, but really, who would even care? Even if you do quit at that time it just saves you a few minutes max.

When you pit these things agains a lot of honest players, who get disconnected every second game, loosing all the money and experience they've earned, I think their gameplay experience should get priority over EA pockets. Maybe the management over there hasn't heard of this "new thing" called customer lifetime value, but that's a big thing when it comes to revenue.

Just because you can't think of one, there must be absolutely no exploits.

Somebody's full of themself.

[Twisted and Mean]

Highlord Heian wrote...

Twisted and Mean wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

We are investigating issues with disconnection, but as been pointed out if players were to keep all progress on disconnect there would be a lot of exploits.

Funny how we keep hearing about potential exploits, while I can't think of a single one. The monetary rewards get progressively bigger, so there is no real point in quitting before wave 10. You might want to quit just before the extraction then, but really, who would even care? Even if you do quit at that time it just saves you a few minutes max.

When you pit these things agains a lot of honest players, who get disconnected every second game, loosing all the money and experience they've earned, I think their gameplay experience should get priority over EA pockets. Maybe the management over there hasn't heard of this "new thing" called customer lifetime value, but that's a big thing when it comes to revenue.

Just because you can't think of one, there must be absolutely no exploits.

Somebody's full of themself.

No, that somebody is just into QA. What hurts players more getting disconnected every second game or some potential exploits by other players, which aren't going to affect their own experience in the least? I'm sure you can get that one right on your own.

Then not giving rewards for disconnects is clearly not about QA, it's about a potential loss in BioWare Point sales. You can't seriously think that being treated like a milking cow makes players feel better after they've already been treated like caged hamsters pressing a feed button with the ridiculous random reward system.

By the way, somebody's a BW drone.

Modifié par Twisted and Mean, 24 mars 2012 - 05:21 .

[Kosmiker]

The only change I think is worthy is splitting the credits/exp with the ones still in the game. If someone disconnects either voluntary or not, shouldn't get anything.

I know it sucks for those who got disconnected because of lag or something but it's fair against exploits.

[Highlord Heian]

Twisted and Mean wrote...

Highlord Heian wrote...

Twisted and Mean wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

We are investigating issues with disconnection, but as been pointed out if players were to keep all progress on disconnect there would be a lot of exploits.

Funny how we keep hearing about potential exploits, while I can't think of a single one. The monetary rewards get progressively bigger, so there is no real point in quitting before wave 10. You might want to quit just before the extraction then, but really, who would even care? Even if you do quit at that time it just saves you a few minutes max.

When you pit these things agains a lot of honest players, who get disconnected every second game, loosing all the money and experience they've earned, I think their gameplay experience should get priority over EA pockets. Maybe the management over there hasn't heard of this "new thing" called customer lifetime value, but that's a big thing when it comes to revenue.

Just because you can't think of one, there must be absolutely no exploits.

Somebody's full of themself.

No, that somebody is just into QA. What hurts players more getting disconnected every second game or some potential exploits by other players, which aren't going to affect their own experience in the least? I'm sure you can get that one right on your own.

Then not giving rewards for disconnects is clearly not about QA, it's about a potential loss in BioWare Point sales. You can't seriously think that being treated like a milking cow makes players feel better after they've alrady been treated like cage hamsters pressing a feed button with the ridiculous random reward system.

By the way, somebody's a BW drone.

Yeah, must be a drone to even suggest that you could possibly not know everything.

You're not concerned with "QA", you're concerned with validating your sniveling complaints with faulty logic. Your self-victimization is just an excuse, a platform for more whining. If you hate the game as much as your constant stream of negativity indicates, don't play.

I'm glad to be judged by whiners like yourself. I don't have connection issues. I also don't weep "poor me" if something I don't like happens. I can play another game. I don't screech red-faced into the forums about how "unfair" it is, like a child throwing a fit.

Again, the hilarity that is your opinion that disagreement must mean I'm a "BW drone". Just like "if I can't think of exploits there are none". You're full of your opinion and can't consider anything else, making you the worst kind of ignorant.

[Highlord Heian]

Kosmiker wrote...

The only change I think is worthy is splitting the credits/exp with the ones still in the game. If someone disconnects either voluntary or not, shouldn't get anything.

I know it sucks for those who got disconnected because of lag or something but it's fair against exploits.

I love the idea of a boost for those who remain - at least earning more going forward with an undermanned team. I'm often stuck with a team where our "rambo wannabe" who runs off and dies and bleeds out and just quits.

[MartialArtsSurfer]

granyte wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

We are investigating issues with disconnection, but as been pointed out if players were to keep all progress on disconnect there would be a lot of exploits.

Virginian you are correct there is a way to tell between quitting in the middle and being cut off; however there is no way to tell the difference between being disconnected 'naturally' and pulling the plug

then add a reconnect button so we cna rejoin our games and make it so that we still get XP and $
e

A reconnect button to rejoin a game would be great & you can sort of do it with Origin with the 'join game' of a friend if you were playing with someone on your friends list --but it requires them to be on your friends list

On XboxLive, you can pull up recent party members & join their game & reconnect that way

What they need is an in-game menu button that automattically keeps a record of your last team mate's names so you can quickly rejoin or add them to your friend's list

[Twisted and Mean]

Highlord Heian wrote...

Yeah, must be a drone to even suggest that you could possibly not know everything.

You're not concerned with "QA", you're concerned with validating your sniveling complaints with faulty logic. Your self-victimization is just an excuse, a platform for more whining. If you hate the game as much as your constant stream of negativity indicates, don't play.

I'm glad to be judged by whiners like yourself. I don't have connection issues. I also don't weep "poor me" if something I don't like happens. I can play another game. I don't screech red-faced into the forums about how "unfair" it is, like a child throwing a fit.

Again, the hilarity that is your opinion that disagreement must mean I'm a "BW drone". Just like "if I can't think of exploits there are none". You're full of your opinion and can't consider anything else, making you the worst kind of ignorant.

Since you're so intent on making it personal, I'll make my stream of gibberish and false accusations short. You're evil and you eat babies.

Now contemplate this for a second. Who of us two is doing Bioware a favour? You say that punishing legitimate players for disconnections is OK, because you don't get any problems with multiplayer, which is a very selfish comment, by the way. You also hang around the forums insulting already frustated people who do experience problems, further alienating them from Bioware.

On the other hand, I point out what is wrong with their customer experience management. That is something they can work with and something I would be glad to hear from my customers, so I can improve their experience. The fact that I can see through the usual type of excuses only makes my insight more useful. Sure, they can get insulted at the fact that someone dares to tell them the blatant truth or they can simply improve their service. Even if it ends up being a more sophisticated excuse instead of a real solution. Which is also fine by me.

And just for the record, it's been quite a while since I stopped having disconnections issues. So I'm a perfectly calm and happy person.

Modifié par Twisted and Mean, 24 mars 2012 - 05:56 .

[kotli]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

We are investigating issues with disconnection, but as been pointed out if players were to keep all progress on disconnect there would be a lot of exploits.

Virginian you are correct there is a way to tell between quitting in the middle and being cut off; however there is no way to tell the difference between being disconnected 'naturally' and pulling the plug

Simple solution to this is connection lost default to the restart current wave, instead of boot to character seletion, then play from there.

^ From my experinace the connection is not really lost it just the host leaves or DC and then the wave thing fails to restart.

What it is not is connection to EA servers getting lost, that boots you to main menu with with a huge error message not just a "connection lost".

Modifié par kotli, 24 mars 2012 - 06:17 .

[Kosmiker]

Highlord Heian wrote...

Kosmiker wrote...

The only change I think is worthy is splitting the credits/exp with the ones still in the game. If someone disconnects either voluntary or not, shouldn't get anything.

I know it sucks for those who got disconnected because of lag or something but it's fair against exploits.

I love the idea of a boost for those who remain - at least earning more going forward with an undermanned team. I'm often stuck with a team where our "rambo wannabe" who runs off and dies and bleeds out and just quits.

lol@"rambo wannabe"

And yeah, a boost would be a nice feature.

[iBRomano]

To be quite honest here, this situation reminds me of the exploits that Bethesda has with Skyrim. The infamous potion loop that makes every weapon/armour ridiculously overpowered seems to be quite reminiscent here. If someone decides to go to the trouble of doing the exploits, then they'd just get bored of the game soon since they'd have impossibly high amounts of credits. It doesn't hurt the other three players in a game, it doesn't hurt Bioware or EA, it only hurts the player himself/herself.

I think a decent change to the current system would, instead of wiping your score clean when you get disconnected, temporarily keep the score until the player returns, so he didn't just waste fifteen minutes getting 50000 points only to be wiped back to 0 when he returns. Of course, I'm not exactly a genius with technology, so I don't know how viable this would be.

It would be interesting to see what others have to think about this. :|

[Czw]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Lionheartwolf wrote...

im kind of curious about what kind of exploits Bryan was talking about. at best you disconnect at the end of a credit match and save yourself the time it takes to let the enemy kill you instead of going onto 11 but thats about it. i mean you still have to make it to that wave and complete the objective.

personally, when i start to notice the warning signs of a bad connection and i dont think its going to make it to the next credit round we wash that match and make sure we at least get what we earned. i would like to have the comfort of knowing that we can push on without being punished for something we have no control over.

The way this would be abused is during host migration. Say you are on wave 10 with 4 people, you complete the objective round so now everyone has credits. 3 of the players leave (not the host, via disconnect or quitting because we can all agree it is not hard to fake a disconnect) so they get their credits they earned from wave 10. 3 more players (friends because you can join in progress) join the game. Host now leaves the game (with their credits they have earned), so host migration occurs a new host is choosen and the wave restarts (including objective) and now another player joins.

Back to 4 players again (could even be the original 4 that were in the game to begin with) and now they complete wave 10 all over again, earning the credits (again).

This kind of thing could be an endless cycle thus being able to get (in the case of gold) nearly 50k credits (for 4 people) in less than 5minutes and is repeatable.


I can not comment for sure if this is the reason, but with a Quality Assurance mindset, this is one way I could think of that a reward on disconnect could be abused.

Thise is already possible with people on your friends list. You can join their games mid-game.

[jonal11]

Just FYI about the "immortal" enemies, having everyone toss powers at them has broken them out of that immortal status 100% of the time for me. Tossing them 4 or 5 times per person was max it has ever taken me.

[Gaidax]

So far I had maybe 2 disconnects and one of them is purely on my side with ISP failing.

The QA dude is right, there are disconnects and there are "disconnects" and it is obvious that people will abuse the **** out of system, if it would allow credits to be kept when "disconnecting".

I come out with a straight face and tell you that I would personally fake quite a few "disconnects" in a few games so far, if I would keep the rewards.

[jonal11]

Gaidax wrote...

So far I had maybe 2 disconnects and one of them is purely on my side with ISP failing.

The QA dude is right, there are disconnects and there are "disconnects" and it is obvious that people will abuse the **** out of system, if it would allow credits to be kept when "disconnecting".

I come out with a straight face and tell you that I would personally fake quite a few "disconnects" in a few games so far, if I would keep the rewards.

I can think of 2 games I would have done it, both games are the only games I met someone who was abusive in comms. I would disconnect in a heartbeat if I could keep what I had already accumulated.

[EmperorZorn]

Just give credits and xp after every completed wave.
That's fair.

[veramis]

I just played two games in a row to wave 7 and my internet had small hiccups and made the games end. I was host so I suppose all the other players got zero xp and credit as well. Good job, bioware.

[veramis]

Just played a game to wave 9, and the host lost connection and everyone was dropped and got zero xp.

Hello is anyone at bioware, just make a 20% xp and credit penalty, not 100% penalty for your crappy servers.

[Excelsior117]

Aeduz wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

We are investigating issues with disconnection, but as been pointed out if players were to keep all progress on disconnect there would be a lot of exploits.

Virginian you are correct there is a way to tell between quitting in the middle and being cut off; however there is no way to tell the difference between being disconnected 'naturally' and pulling the plug

Why are people punished if playing with friends when they disconnect /crash on round 9 for example and then reconnect again straight away, they lose all XP and credits gained up until that point. Can you not implement a system that you give people 5 minutes to reconnect to the game before progress is wiped? 

Agreed. Maybe a similar system to the one they use in Heroes of Newerth, wherein you have limited time to get back in the game you dc-ed from. Other than this, the only other thing I want to see is some sort of punishment (even if it's just a little) for those who QUIT. Hell, maybe even put in leaver tracking or something.

[BigBearBear]

I think it'll be fair to implement a system where if you disconnect, you'll be able to reconnect to the game in progress if no other player have taken your place. That way, if you have a disconnect, is able to get connection back, you can rejoin the game and finish it to earn credits.