216 réponses à ce sujet

[Jamie9]

TheSteelArcher wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

TheSteelArcher wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

I really liked Cortez. I'm going to provide some context on the overall "issue" on homosexuality too. I am heterosexual, but I have some gay friends IRL. They know I'm not gay, but sometimes there is light flirting, you know just a comment on my 'figure' or something, however, it is all in jest, and we both know this.

Cortez was definitely not forced upon my character, and I enjoyed the conversations with him. Kaiden, however, surprised me. I was taken aback when he asked me if I wanted to be more than friends due to him never displaying that in ME1, and we had the 'bromance' thing going strong. But I wasn't offended, I just said we should be friends.

I didn't realize Traynor was lesbian until I found out on the wiki. I thought she was bisexual, although I never actually tried to pursue her.

So no, I don't feel like Cortez was wedged in, he had a very thorough story actually.

I had no idea they made Kaiden gay, I brought my one "perfect" Shep through all 3 and he died on Virmire. I thought Traynor was bisexual, too. Who all was S/S romanceable?

Cortez and Traynor were both homosexual.

Liara, Kaiden and Diana Allers were bisexual.

Ashley, Tali, Miranda, Jack and Garrus were heterosexual.

Jacob be cheating, and Thane dies a hero.

Thanks, and I don't think they overcompensated. I mean, we've gotta try to look at it through the social norms of 2186 which is really hard to do. But, if you think about it, homosexuality would most likely be a non-factor by then. So being bisexual or homosexual wouldn't even be thought about and might even become more common. Still, the Kaiden thing is hard to imagine because they had to reroute his character to make it happen. I can understand some people's concern and others have been upset about it because they felt like Bioware was trying to make a political statement. But, I didn't even know about Traynor or Allers, so I guess in who is and isn't has slight variation. For example: My Allers is heterosexual while someone elses is bisexual. Just a thought, and it'd go with the whole "it's your story" thing the series has pitched since ME1.

Well yeah, most of them only show interest in you, so you only see them with your gender. That's what I liked about how the romances were treat. They didn't have a big sign on their heads proclaiming their sexuality. You ask them, and they tell you. Or they tentatively ask you, and you tell them. It's realistic.

[MadCat221]

Cortez didn't bug me.

Know what bugged me? An uncanny valley inksuit non-voice-actor being shoehorned in as gratuitous fanservice.

[j78]

fcslmloyb wrote...

I quite liked Cortez.

Of the new characters introduced to the Normandy crew, it was Vega who seemed more tacked on to me than anyone else. Cortez gave us a look at the repercussions of the war, beyond the suffering of Earth, and provided a more mature approach to the loss of a loved one. The only thing that cheapened his story somewhat was his apparent readiness to jump into another relationship so quickly after dealing with his grief. It didnt strike me as being as believable as the rest of his character arc.

Vega on the other hand, was rather jarring. The first thing i thought was why the heck is my Shepard pally with this guy? I get grounded and now i'm best pals with this guy? Nothing about his character struck me as either original nor necessary. If anyone was a diversion of development time away from more worthy characters it was Vega. About the only reason i can see for his existance is so he can star in the inevitable spinoff - which is already occuring with the animated film thingy being released later this year. Everything else about him could have been assigned to another character, from dialogue to combat skills, and we'd be none the worse.

I liked vega but I think it’s true vega is going to play a bigger role in the future. He would fit in as lead to fps they want to make .

[Xenbus]

luukee wrote...

Xenbus wrote...

pritcher wrote...

He doesn't do much, doesn't go on missions other than as a pilot. His story is interesting in a sorry you lost your mate way. But, I don't get why he was there.

I have no problem with him being gay, its the character's life, he could be anything as far as I am concerned but you already had so many other characters. James is good, there is no forcing his characters' story into the script.

I felt from the moment I met Cortez that he was not needed to fill out mass effect 3 or 1 or 2.. Why could you call him of all people and not your mom to say goodbye.. ? Weird..

I felt that the writers wanted to add someone controversial to the mix to remove attention from the lack of other stories.

I'm almost positive he got in because they over compensated for not having same sex relationships in the first 2 games.

That was one of the first questions me and my friend commented on when we got about 5 hours in the game.

"Do you think they just over compensated for not having same sex relationships in the first 2 games?"

I supported same sex relation ships in the second and it probably should have happened there, but it just felt like over compensation in 3.

How is it over compensation though? Straight male sheps can get Ashley Kelly, Tali, Miranda Dianna, Jack and Liara while gay male sheps get Kaidan and Steve. Same with lesbian femshep, she only gets Samantha and Dianna (as well as Liara if you classify her as female)

I would say 2-3 characters is not an over compensation.

I would have honestly like to see more of it through the whole series, but the third game focuses more on global event and less on character/companions on the normandy like ME2 did. I just thought it was a lot compressed into such a small subset of conversations compared to the earlier games.

I'm glad they put them in cause they actually did add depth to game overall. I think mostly if they had simply given us more conversations with the people from 2 like Jack also it would have seem less overcompensating is all.

[Hanabii]

MissOuJ wrote...

Hanabii wrote...

Read the rest of my post MissOuJ. Maybe a little context wouldn't hurt.

As I said I am against denomination bashing. You are being very belligerent and defensive everyone is personally attacking you. Please don't Forum Bait and read the rest of the post in context before you post your reply. It's not very classy to do otherwise.

I read all of your post. Still doesn't change the fact that finding openly gay character "shocking" tells a lot more about you than about Cortez. Making a comment about his "well portrayed grieff" doesn't really change that.

I haven't seen any demonination bashing in this thead at all. Plus, I'm a practising Christian myself.

Look, what I meant by it being shocking is that I am an Active Christian myself with very little to no Homosexual exposure myself. In previous games and on threads they (S/S relationship pushers) were pushing for it for a long time. With how Ham Handed the romances were put into it I wasn't shocked because he was gay.

I was thinking to myself "Oh God, Cortez is gonna be nothing but a giant gay agenda push." It wasn't anything against Gay People. But when you push an Agenda into a game with too much force it detracts from the story and turns an entire character and/or section into a push for a political or sexual agenda.

With the rest of my comment in Context I was also saying that I was plesently surprised by Cortez as a character and addition to the crew and was impressed by the character. In the end he surpassed my initial "Oh god, a giant agenda push move." and moved to one of "My Crew."

As I said, I am a Christian but I don't have a denomonation because I don't agree with a lot of the doctrines or the lack of following that many of them have. I used to be baptist but with the Gay Bashing and the cruelty towards people of different beliefs was sickening in the churches I was in.

My view is, only those with no sin can judge another man based on his sins. I have my own problems, you have your own problems. Everyone does. The only time we are called to judge another is over an earthly crime that is a breach of law.

Summerized: I was shocked and appauled by Cortez in opening because I thought he was a giant agenda push that was going to detract from the game to make a political statement.

I was very pleased that he wasn't and I really liked him as a character.

[MissOuJ]

TheSteelArcher wrote...

Still, the Kaiden thing is hard to imagine because they had to reroute his character to make it happen.

Not really. He just pretty much tells you he's had time to think things through after Mars and came to the conclusion that he'd really like to have something deeper with (male) Shepard than friendship. No retconning needed. He even says something along the lines of "You've known me for how long? And have you ever seen me with anyone?"

It's very well handled - and since the fans have been asking for a s/s romance with him for ages, it's about time.

Also agree about the social changes. It's 2186! Even cross-species romances are accepted, why not s/s relationships?

Modifié par MissOuJ, 17 mars 2012 - 08:40 .

[TheSteelArcher]

MissOuJ wrote...

TheSteelArcher wrote...

Still, the Kaiden thing is hard to imagine because they had to reroute his character to make it happen.

Not really. He just pretty much tells you he's had time to think things through after Mars and came to the conclusion that he'd really like to have something deeper with (male) Shepard than friendship. No retconning needed. He even says something along the lines of "You've known me for how long? And have you ever seen me with anyone?"

It's very well handled - and since the fans have been asking for a s/s romance with him for ages, it's about time.

I never got to see how it all goes down because he died, I take that statement back. He just never really expressed it in ME1 and the whole insubordination thing didn't change the Ashley romance, but maybe you could say he was just more focused on the mission. Thank you for the insight. 

Also, I don't get how people are upset about fan service and the fact that it played a role in S/S romance, other threads have shown quite a bit of anger towards the idea. If the fans are asking for something, and it's going to make the game better and more enjoyable for a reasonable amount of people, then I don't see why the developer shouldn't go for it. And, like I said, I didn't even know about any of them besides Cortez so it has some variation based on dialog choices and gender.

[Arppis]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

You could make this claim about lots of characters. In the end, they chose what they chose.

[AmeriCanuck77]

I thought the addition of Cortez and his story line were done very well. I don't have an issue with homosexuality so I never felt that there was any 'agenda' or that it was shoved in my face. Cortez was dealing with an emotional issue that would have been difficult for anyone gay or straight to deal with. My Paragon male Shepard was in a romance with Liara so my interactions with Cortez played out as one friend helping another through a rough time. His loyalty to Shepard as the shuttle pilot was awesome. We are all entitled to our opinions. That is just my take on things...

[DevilBeast]

Machines Are Us wrote...

I look forward to a time when having a black/asian/gay/lesbian character means having a black/asian/gay/lesbian character and not a "token".

Seriously, you think it's forced, it show you have more issues than they do. They can't win either way at the moment. They don't include the options they are homophobes, they include them and they are "forced".

This.

[BadlyBrowned]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

My biggest complaint from Mass Effect 2 was the auto shuttles that flew themselves.

Glad to see BioWare listened and added a shuttle pilot.

Plus it's good to see they've moved on(hopefully) from the everybody is bisexual stuff we got in Dragon Age 2, to actual gay characters in Traynor and Cortez.

Agreed on all counts. 

[IndustrializedTaco]

I disagree, I thought Cortez was a great character. I liked his story.

[Midarenkov]

I liked Cortez.

edit: and still do!

Modifié par Midarenkov, 18 mars 2012 - 08:23 .

[DevilBeast]

Walrusninja wrote...

I got to admit, he was kind of in your face gay. So he's gay, big deal, move on, but then he goes on and on about it and is the only character in the game to bawl his eyes out, it's in like the first 5 horus too. I thought he was a poorly done character overall.

By the way, spewing "homophobe" at anyone not entirely pro-gay helps nobody. It's taking the name calling gays face and turning it back on a majority. Helps nobody at all. Also, actual homophobia is very rare.

The problem here to my mind lies on both sides so to speak. They try to include a gay character because the politically correct current situation in our world is "no problemo with that, it's not a big deal". But then, the way they portrayed him was poorly done and they did make a big deal out of it. It's like the people who are against racism but see it EVERYWHERE even if it's not there. You can't be like "this isn't a big deal" but then play it out as a big deal in a none-too-subtle way.

Edit: jumpingkaede makes a great point

Now, I havne´t played ME3 with a maleShep yet, but I didn´t get the feeling that Cortez "goes on and on" about his sexuality. Yes, he talks about losing a loved one (his husband in this case) but that´s it. No, "oh I´m gay, what do oyu think about that??" etc. etc.

[DevilBeast]

Agamo45 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

I disliked how he kept mentioning his "husband". Like the devs just HAD to take every opportunity to show that they were 'tolerant' by having a ****** character.

Yeah he had a husband who he loved, who died horribly.
I wonder if it had been a wife, would you be saying the same.

No I wouldn't, for obvious reasons.

My point was would you consider it in your face?
Or would you accept that his wife was a part of his character and backstory?

Because that's all it is. His husband serves as a reminder of the people who were killed by the Collectors and the people affected by that.

Whole thing is just so painfully forced. Like the male and female extras on the Normandy, Cortez and Traynor. They were so obviously made gay just to appease the crazies on this forum. Gotta love how they tease straight males with Traynor.

Well, it´s nice to be called crazy. Guess, you liked being called a homophobe too??

[Nykara]

Vito_Raliffe wrote...

I really like Cortez and his story arc.

This

[TAK The Voyager]

I actually liked the dude. It was nice to know the dude who flew the shuttle. And his banter with Vega was great.

[agathokakological]

I liked his inclusion. He put a human face on the war, what civilians were going through.

But when he is shown watching that really dramatic vid of his last conversation with his husband, did anyone else think initially that he was watching a soap opera? or was that just me?

Edit: Did anyone feel like he and Traynor were sort of obligatory to address having homosexual characters, but also PoC? it seemed like they were killing two birds with one stone.

Modifié par agathokakological, 18 mars 2012 - 08:37 .

[Raizo]

savionen wrote...

STEEEEEEEEEEVE

That line made me laugh really hard during the final level. It obviously works alot better if Steve is your LI but if he isn't it's really over the top.

It is a bit convienient that Steve just happened to be on Horizon during the Collectors attack. Convienient but not exactly game breaking. 

[MakeMineMako]

I liked Cortez as a character. He was one of my Sheploo's bros (Ashley was Shepard's girl in my play through). My Shepard thinks of his team as friends and family, I guess. Mostly because he had no real family on Earth growing up and running gangs.(Earthborn)

So, it was natural for me to have Sheploo strike up a friendship with Steve.

[DevilBeast]

Animositisomina wrote...

tommythetomcat wrote...

I wasn't aware talking to him was central to the story.

Oh that's right its not, and you don't have to.

But he's on my ship! I'll catch "the gay" from him, just knowing he's even there!

[Direwolf0294]

Cortez was my favourite new character in the series. I really enjoyed his story about helping him move on after his husbands death. I never felt like he was wedged in.

[Filby08]

I always wondered why they never showed who flew you down to all those missions in the shuttle. He was a nice addition. It's things like that that make me feel closer to the whole team, and not just the combat squaddies.

[MoonsKisu]

RenownedRyan wrote...

I have no problem with adding a new character, rather than having the Kodiak piloted by Joker. True that Cortez is not "necessary" to the story, but technically you could have Shepard alone on the Normandy and it would still be a story. The characters just give us emotional investment. Personally, I was surprised at how much the writers did to flesh out the character of Cortez. For him to have any story is surprising. He was a far more compelling character than Specialist Traynor.

QFT

I actually really enjoyed interacting with him. He was a nice surprise.