8 réponses à ce sujet

[Swagga like Bane]

I feel as if these entities have not had their legends fully spelled out, or maybe they have, and for that reason incase I missed it myself I'm asking to see if I can get the answers I am looking for.

First off, what does the evolution of this species look like? They have been around millions and according to the existence of the Leviathon of Dis, possibly even billions of years. Have they been carrying around their vendetta with the same "physiology" per say? A mile-sized, spaceship in the shape of a squid or some sort of insectoid?

Secondly, if they are partially organic, what exactly makes them living? They have self-awareness, they are conscious, but does each individual reaper have a personality? Are they just straight up evil and cannot be "bought, bullied, traded, or negotiated with" as Alfred described the Joker, in the Dark Knight? Are they simply one dimensional beings who only carry out their purpose? If they really are that dogmatic about it I don't see how they are much more than just machines...

Speaking of Leviathan of Dis, when I searched for images of the reaper which intrigued me since it supposedly a billion years old, I came across this:

Is that supposed to be a reaper? If it is, then it is huge, and I wonder how it was killed, or deactivated.

And another question, I have read that the reapers hibernate in dark space, the voids inbetween the Milky Way and the rest of the galaxies. What I know is that something else that exists in the voids between galaxies is dark energy. This leads me to the question, do reapers fill up all the dark spaces in the universe, waiting to purge every single galaxy that they are closest to? Or is there evil plan a curse simply embedded on the Milky Way? If the answer applies to the former, than I wonder what connection the reapers may have to dark energy. Because dark energy is infact the force that pushes galaxies farther away from each other, rapidly making the universe expand.

So do the reapers return to their most proximate galaxy in order to not get lost in the universe? Or are they trying to work against dark energy by pulling the galaxies closer together every 50,000 years? 


So many questions about these beings, I feel like so few have been answered in Me3... 

[Swagga like Bane]

bump

[ManualReplica]

Everything is explained in the ending.

The reapers are actually protecting us from ourselves! :DD

[Crimzoneyed]

ManualReplica wrote...

Everything is explained in the ending.

The reapers are actually protecting us from ourselves! :DD

And they are "tool's" used by the catalyst if I remember right.

[NSGM]

#1-- There are two parts to their design. The first is related to the fact that they are constructed by themselves and/or the catalyst and therefore optimized in regards to their "job" in the universe. This design is likely the best for the many things they do such as living in dark space, harvesting organic species, destroying civilizations and withstanding fire from said species.

I'm not quite sure if this regards to the inside or outside of the Reaper but it was explained in ME2 that Reapers are also designed as likenesses to the species used to create the organic portion of their "body". You see this in the Human Reaper. This is done in part to preserve the species.

#2 -- What makes them living? Well, their entire purpose is to allow sentient space faring organic species to continue existing while preventing the inevitable organic/synthetic war which apparently has been occurring since the dawn of space faring species. In this sense, they are alive because they are composed of billions of that species and are genetically modified in order allow for the minds to meld into an AI conciousness and do it's "job." That said, it's similar to the Collectors from ME2. The Collectors are constructs of Protheans and Reapers are constructs of space faring species, both created by species who have been modified in a similar manner. Is something that was once organic but has been extrensively genetically manipulated still alive?

#3 -- The Milky Way Galaxy is the only galaxy that I remember being shown as being harvested by the Reapers. As far as dark energy goes, if you played ME2 you'll remember that it was the myterious factor that was causing Haestrom's sun to evolve earlier than it should have been. I'm pretty certain that dark energy was a plot point they were planning on using, but they (Bioware) have either decided to shelve it all-together or save it for future content, either in the form of DLC or a new game.

The real question about the Reapers and the Catalyst is this:

Who posed the problem to the catalyst in the first place?
Catalyst: "I was given a problem to solve. My solution no longer works." (Paraphrased)

The simplest answer is that whatever evolution of synthetic intelligence the catalyst is, it has empathy either for future synthetic or organic species and found their suffering to be unacceptable, however, maybe there's more to the story...

Modifié par NSGM, 17 mars 2012 - 10:03 .

[Kakaw]

They are made up of the essence of biological lifeforms. This is how the cycle stores biological life, as biological life cannot be allowed to evolve as they could create dangerous AI's . Their purpose is to stop evolution and store biological life.. A purpose given to them by biological life... I don't know if they'd be interested in other galaxies.

[Swagga like Bane]

NSGM wrote...

#1-- There are two parts to their design. The first is related to the fact that they are constructed by themselves and/or the catalyst and therefore optimized in regards to their "job" in the universe. This design is likely the best for the many things they do such as living in dark space, harvesting organic species, destroying civilizations and withstanding fire from said species.

I'm not quite sure if this regards to the inside or outside of the Reaper but it was explained in ME2 that Reapers are also designed as likenesses to the species used to create the organic portion of their "body". You see this in the Human Reaper. This is done in part to preserve the species.

#2 -- What makes them living? Well, their entire purpose is to allow sentient space faring organic species to continue existing while preventing the inevitable organic/synthetic war which apparently has been occurring since the dawn of space faring species. In this sense, they are alive because they are composed of billions of that species and are genetically modified in order allow for the minds to meld into an AI conciousness and do it's "job." That said, it's similar to the Collectors from ME2. The Collectors are constructs of Protheans and Reapers are constructs of space faring species, both created by species who have been modified in a similar manner. Is something that was once organic but has been extrensively genetically manipulated still alive?

#3 -- The Milky Way Galaxy is the only galaxy that I remember being shown as being harvested by the Reapers. As far as dark energy goes, if you played ME2 you'll remember that it was the myterious factor that was causing Haestrom's sun to evolve earlier than it should have been. I'm pretty certain that dark energy was a plot point they were planning on using, but they (Bioware) have either decided to shelve it all-together or save it for future content, either in the form of DLC or a new game.

The real question about the Reapers and the Catalyst is this:

Who posed the problem to the catalyst in the first place?
Catalyst: "I was given a problem to solve. My solution no longer works." (Paraphrased)

The simplest answer is that whatever evolution of synthetic intelligence the catalyst is, it has empathy either for future synthetic or organic species and found their suffering to be unacceptable, however, maybe there's more to the story...

Either there is more to the story or the story itself is convoluted. Mordin also said that collectors were closer to husks than slaves and husks are (to me) essentially zombies, so they are not living creatures at all.

Reapers on the other hand are supposed to be alive according to EDI, because Shepard was going to dismiss them as just machines. 

[All-a-Mort]

The one on Rannoch makes it clear that they are following instructions and that they do not regard what they do as exterminating sentient life, but instead saving organic life. Factor in Harbinger's comments in ME2 and Legion telling us that reapers consist of many minds like the geth and it is apparent that each Reaper is made from the DNA and minds of a single species if deemed sufficiently worthy. This process ensures that species' legacy survives in a more resilient and permanent form than as normal organic evolution. Sadly Shepard has persuaded the Reapers that humans are potentially worthy subjects for ascendance into Reaper form. So whilst they reset the rest of the galaxy, the reaper built from this cycle is intended to be human in origin.

The Collectors were husks made from protheans, so prothean forms heavily altered by the usual cybernetic implants we see in Human husks, Turian Marauders etc.To old Javik these were abominations.

Not really clear what the Haestrom sun thing was meant to be. It could have been some Reaper technology (doing what?) or part of the Geth's Dyson Sphere/Shell project. But yeah with it being ignored pretty much in ME3 and Kal Reegar not being present looks like yet another plotline they decided to 'forget'.

[NSGM]

The comparison wasn't between their intelligence, but rather the fact that the collectors and the reapers are both synthetic-organic hybrid constructs. The Collectors are zombie like because they were indoctrinated which caused the need for the genetic manipulation. According to your definition of life, they aren't living because they lack the ability to make their own choices (their genetic code has been altered to the point where they are more akin to machine which respond to stimuli with pre-determined responses).

The Reapers are similar in origin, they were once organic civilizations. Instead of being indoctrinated however, their biological essence is used to create an organic-synthetic hybrid which houses a massive network of intelligence. Whether a reaper's "mind" is comprised of millions of synthetic programs or organic minds which have been "uploaded" isn't clear to me. (Think of the Control Ending and how Shepherd would in essence meld with the Reapers to control them)

If you are basing your definition of life on whether or not they have free will, then the question you need to ask is this; Are the Reapers continuing the cycle because they actually want to avoid the chaos that is caused by the organic-synthetic problem or are they simply tools controlled by something greater such as the catalyst?

Given that Shepherd can control the reapers it would seem that your definition wouldn't allow the Reapers the title of being alive, but maybe they are. Maybe the reapers have the ability to make choices, but are denied that choice due to the control exerted over them by the Catalyst. Or, maybe the reapers actually believe in the cycle and the control you can exert is possible simply due to their form of existence (synthetic life).

The question of whether the Reapers are alive requires you to examine your definition of life itself and whether synthetic intelligence can become alive. Are the Geth alive even though they become simpler with less programs in direct communication? If not, are they alive when they achieve the ability to operate on their own at the same capacity? (See Legion Uploading Reaper Code) Is EDI alive due to the fact that she is no longer shackled by Cerberus and can make her own choices? The same questions apply to the Reapers, the facts just aren't as clear in regards to their inner workings.

Modifié par NSGM, 18 mars 2012 - 01:02 .