185 réponses à ce sujet

[Doctoglethorpe]

Militarized wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Reporting that as news is also taking it too far.  Since when is the random post of a random guy on a forum (this forum, i remember the thread) worthy of being called news?

Now if it actually reached some court approval, then it might become news worthy.  But as it is now its nothing, and reporting on it is just sensationalism.  

 

That's ALL news is anymore.. sensationalism then the next sensationalism. Little to no facts or real analysis from acreditted individuals is given. They have actors comment on very serious issues... the media is a mess anymore, just ignore it. 

Trust me, I already do. 

Gaming "journalism" is as big of a joke as chinas ministry of information. 

[Pobatti]

This is the real problem people. This is why some of us continue to realistically expect Bioware to chip in and repair the situation with either altered endings or epilogue DLC. While the points made by those that oppose such a thing are very valid when taken as they are (usually), there's the case of the massive backlash to consider outside the simple context of whether or not the endings themselves need to be changed.

You've got someone reporting Bioware to the FTC.

How long is it going to be before the real-world crimes start to hit? How long will it be before it's reported that some folks have responded so badly to the entire affair that they've decided to commit suicide? How long do we go before folks decide to organise movements and groups away from the internet that choose to formally protest or become some other menace to society?

It's one thing to have a powerful ending such as the one we got. It's one thing for the game to go 'against the grain' to be different and memorable. But the problem is, when you generate such controversy and anger on such a wide reaching scale it's almost certain that it will bleed-out into the real world, and when the media starts pointing their fingers at Bioware or (as is the case normally) the games industry in general - that's when the real trouble starts and it could have hard hitting implications for all of us, not least Bioware.

The 'Take Back Mass Effect' movement is the 'paragon' side to the fans backlash, when the 'renegade' side kicks into action, we'd all best just bury our heads and hope Bioware, and maybe even the industry at large, is still around when we resurface.

[jbauck]

It is extreme, but I can't say it didn't occur to me. Having pre-ordered a digital copy and carefully avoided spoilers, I really felt cheated by the ending. The ending makes the game feel broken, like a gadget that doesn't work, and I really wish there was some way I could return it.

But with something like this, expectations and marketing-speak or so fuzzy and subjective, it's difficult to say "Yes, I was cheated/defrauded" which is what FTC complaints are for. Entertainment media is largely immune from the "I was totally dissatisified with my purchase" kind of complaint, because once you've realized you were totally dissatisfied, you've already consumed the product.

I can say that if I had known how the ending was going to play out, I wouldn't have bought the game. I can't say, though, that I was actually cheated or defrauded ... marketing hype should be taken with a grain of salt, so that's shame on me - and while I feel the product as-is is not what I wanted, and was more than I wanted to pay for something that I was only going to play once, it was priced for people to play once, and I did that ... even though the ending truly made me feel like I'd wasted my time and money.

[Archereon]

Right thing to do for the wrong reasons and targeted at the wrong corporate entity.

EA has engaged in pretty serious business practices over its lifetime and still does, and while it's faced legal action from time to time, it get's away with so much crap.

[xeNNN]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Militarized wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Reporting that as news is also taking it too far.  Since when is the random post of a random guy on a forum (this forum, i remember the thread) worthy of being called news?

Now if it actually reached some court approval, then it might become news worthy.  But as it is now its nothing, and reporting on it is just sensationalism.  

 

That's ALL news is anymore.. sensationalism then the next sensationalism. Little to no facts or real analysis from acreditted individuals is given. They have actors comment on very serious issues... the media is a mess anymore, just ignore it. 

Trust me, I already do. 

Gaming "journalism" is as big of a joke as chinas ministry of information. 

looooooooooooooooooooool wow. that made me laugh.

[Versus Omnibus]

He has the right, but what an idiot...

[xxskyshadowxx]

sadako wrote...

Well, it's well within his right. Even if we do not agree with him, it would set a precedent for gaming companies not to over-publicize their products to the extent that they start creating false hopes for their consumers.

In this case, I think bioware has made the mistake of promising things they could not deliver.
I still don't agree with the guy bringing the case to FTC, but it was something that was waiting to happen.

^This.

Actually filing with the FTC is better than a class action lawsuit, which I saw some folks talking about not too long ago. All the FTC complaints board is really is a place for consumers to report what they feel is fraudulent activity. The FTC simply holds it on record. If they receive a large (and I mean large) number of complaints in a span of time, they might consider a lawsuit, but it's very rare. Especially, since they only regulate advertising, and while Bioware's misrepresentations of how the series would end and what the players's experiences would be were in PR interviews, none of that was in their actual advertising. So, aside from keeping a record of complaints for others to see/use in consideration before purchasing from a company, not much else will happen with the filings.

That being said, if it makes him feel better about the disappointment he is dealing with because of the poor writing and blatant misrepresentations, I think he did the right thing,

[Ultra Prism]

Consumer point of view, he has the right to complain if the product didn't deliver his expectations....just like all of us who are raging over the fact the ending was simply incoherent ....

I will say we should hold the line at Bioware and expect them to come with an answer

[HKR148]

Pobatti wrote...

This is the real problem people. This is why some of us continue to realistically expect Bioware to chip in and repair the situation with either altered endings or epilogue DLC. While the points made by those that oppose such a thing are very valid when taken as they are (usually), there's the case of the massive backlash to consider outside the simple context of whether or not the endings themselves need to be changed.

You've got someone reporting Bioware to the FTC.

How long is it going to be before the real-world crimes start to hit? How long will it be before it's reported that some folks have responded so badly to the entire affair that they've decided to commit suicide? How long do we go before folks decide to organise movements and groups away from the internet that choose to formally protest or become some other menace to society?

It's one thing to have a powerful ending such as the one we got. It's one thing for the game to go 'against the grain' to be different and memorable. But the problem is, when you generate such controversy and anger on such a wide reaching scale it's almost certain that it will bleed-out into the real world, and when the media starts pointing their fingers at Bioware or (as is the case normally) the games industry in general - that's when the real trouble starts and it could have hard hitting implications for all of us, not least Bioware.

The 'Take Back Mass Effect' movement is the 'paragon' side to the fans backlash, when the 'renegade' side kicks into action, we'd all best just bury our heads and hope Bioware, and maybe even the industry at large, is still around when we resurface.

Extreme things happen and will regardless of how many people are being decent-minded about the current situation. And that's why I sort of fear... of what may happen in the gaming-convention that will take place soon. Bioware may simply cancel their trip out of fear for safety.

[xeNNN]

Pobatti wrote...

This is the real problem people. This is why some of us continue to realistically expect Bioware to chip in and repair the situation with either altered endings or epilogue DLC. While the points made by those that oppose such a thing are very valid when taken as they are (usually), there's the case of the massive backlash to consider outside the simple context of whether or not the endings themselves need to be changed.

You've got someone reporting Bioware to the FTC.

How long is it going to be before the real-world crimes start to hit? How long will it be before it's reported that some folks have responded so badly to the entire affair that they've decided to commit suicide? How long do we go before folks decide to organise movements and groups away from the internet that choose to formally protest or become some other menace to society?

It's one thing to have a powerful ending such as the one we got. It's one thing for the game to go 'against the grain' to be different and memorable. But the problem is, when you generate such controversy and anger on such a wide reaching scale it's almost certain that it will bleed-out into the real world, and when the media starts pointing their fingers at Bioware or (as is the case normally) the games industry in general - that's when the real trouble starts and it could have hard hitting implications for all of us, not least Bioware.

The 'Take Back Mass Effect' movement is the 'paragon' side to the fans backlash, when the 'renegade' side kicks into action, we'd all best just bury our heads and hope Bioware, and maybe even the industry at large, is still around when we resurface.

to be honest i dont think it would go that far and your exadurating a tad. 

people file FTC claims for much much less. like ive said before ive even seen one for a dust pan and brush so dont over exadurate the the issue. just accept it. hes within his rights to do it he brought the product so he can. let him he doesnt speak for all of us. 

you pretty much defined your point with that "long winded" response  no offence lol.

Modifié par xeNNN, 17 mars 2012 - 08:16 .

[SandTrout]

Archereon wrote...

Right thing to do for the wrong reasons and targeted at the wrong corporate entity.

EA has engaged in pretty serious business practices over its lifetime and still does, and while it's faced legal action from time to time, it get's away with so much crap.

EA is the parent company (they own BioWare fully), and as the actuall autonomous entity, it is actually the proper target of any complaint filed.

[Lozark]

Pobatti wrote...

This is the real problem people. This is why some of us continue to realistically expect Bioware to chip in and repair the situation with either altered endings or epilogue DLC. While the points made by those that oppose such a thing are very valid when taken as they are (usually), there's the case of the massive backlash to consider outside the simple context of whether or not the endings themselves need to be changed.

You've got someone reporting Bioware to the FTC.

How long is it going to be before the real-world crimes start to hit? How long will it be before it's reported that some folks have responded so badly to the entire affair that they've decided to commit suicide? How long do we go before folks decide to organise movements and groups away from the internet that choose to formally protest or become some other menace to society?

It's one thing to have a powerful ending such as the one we got. It's one thing for the game to go 'against the grain' to be different and memorable. But the problem is, when you generate such controversy and anger on such a wide reaching scale it's almost certain that it will bleed-out into the real world, and when the media starts pointing their fingers at Bioware or (as is the case normally) the games industry in general - that's when the real trouble starts and it could have hard hitting implications for all of us, not least Bioware.

The 'Take Back Mass Effect' movement is the 'paragon' side to the fans backlash, when the 'renegade' side kicks into action, we'd all best just bury our heads and hope Bioware, and maybe even the industry at large, is still around when we resurface.

Calm down~  This kind of doomsaying is way out there and totally unnessecary.  This was a report filed to the FTC, the place where consumers go to report their complaints, not a one man march on Bioware HQ or a suicide threat.  It is not legal action, and it is not going to start anything like what you've said.

This kind of hyperbolic rhetoric is exactly what the articles against us use and want from us, so that they can in turn spin it all out of proportion and make us look bad.  These are the "news" out;lets that have tried to make our movement look selfish because of our donations to charity.

The FTC isn't going to sue anyone over this, or take legal action against anyone.  They're going to note that people have complaints and issues with a product made and sold to them by Bioware and EA and that's it.  It helps get the word out a little more, and that's a good thing.  The worst, the absolute worst, that could happen to Bioware or EA over this?  They get a note from the FTC about how one of their products has gotten a large influx of complaints.  And that only happens if a whole lot of people file with the FTC.

[AwesomeDudex64]

Why did he have to go and do that?

[AsheraII]

That guy is wasting your taxmoney with taking it to the ftc.

[Korhiann]

Good thing that chances are that nothing will come from it.

[Hashbeth]

It is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
No lawyer worth his salt would take the case.
No judge would hear it

[Tyrf]

AsheraII wrote...

That guy is wasting your taxmoney with taking it to the ftc.

...compared to buying an online version of a game that requires no sales tax?

[Pobatti]

xeNNN wrote...

to be honest i dont think it would go that far and your exadurating a tad. 

people file FTC claims for much much less. like ive said before ive even seen one for a dust pan and brush so dont over exadurate the the issue. just accept it. hes within his rights to do it he brought the product so he can. let him he doesnt speak for all of us. 

you pretty much defined your point with that "long winded" response  no offence lol.

It doesn't hurt to over exaggerate - I mean nobody really expected the unprecedented backlash that's already happened. At the moment there's a lot of talk and speculation about ending DLC, but we can't rule out 'random person' behaviour of an extreme nature as a response to all this.

Everything I mentioned has happened before in response to books, movies and other things. Yes, these folks were maybe a little over the top, maybe these folks were 'just looking for an excuse', but there's little doubt that when these things occur the media starts blaming the industry. I mean, someone steals a car, the police raid his appartment and find a copy of Grand Theft Auto and assume the 'game made him do it' - the media seems to be looking to shoot down the games insustry wherever it can.

Plus the fact that 'Facebook-run' groups have been responsible for criminal activity and protests in recent times. Not too long ago a Facebook movement was responsible for mass looting of shops and retail outlets across the UK. During that period, the UK was in turmoil as folks basically walked into shops and took even large things like televisions illegally and on a massive scale.

It's a dangerous age we live in, since people are able to get better organised these days.

[ShepGep]

I hate to say it...but...he's right. We were flat out lied to by the developers and Bioware prior to the game's release on what to expect in the game and in specific the choices we make and the ending actually having conclusion. Even reading the back of my game case...it's all lies. Do I think it's overboard this soon into the process? Sure...but false advertisement is false advertisement.

[Benrosan]

Like it or not, it's his right as a consumer. And I guarantee you he wasn't the first one to do it.

[streamlock]

Well, if he feels that way-he definitely has the right to try and bring it up. But I do think it's a bit excessive and ultimately hurts what (the majority) of folks are trying to accomplish right now.

[Lozark]

Hashbeth wrote...

It is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
No lawyer worth his salt would take the case.
No judge would hear it

Filing a complaint with the FTC is not a lawsuit, it is filing a complaint with the FTC.  They keep track of this sort of thing, but they do not take any sort of legal action unless the company in question has broken the law, which doesn't apply to this case.  It's just another tool of the consumer to get their voices out there, and one that more of us should use.  My parents filed with the FTC when they brought a faulty washing machine, it did not lead them into a lawsuit with Whirlpool, for example.

[Zhijn]

There are actually 16 endings in ME3. It just not at the very end, its throughout the game where you come to a conclusions with the various factions and characters? Since ME3 is The End. Maybe Mr Hudson should just had phrased it better.

Heh, sounds like a silly PR spin!. xD

[dkear1]

Just one more tool in the arsenal to force bioware to fix what they broke.
If it is ok for them to lie to us then they should face the music.

[Cat Lionheart]

Well, I guess they have something there and if that is not an attention getter I do not know what is.

I am curious to see what will come of it though.