63 réponses à ce sujet

[RLesueur]

Icesong wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

The systems were cut off from other clusters. not from other systems IN that same cluster (of which there are hundreds).

As I said the Prothean Empire fought for 300 years in spite of being effectively crippled in a galactic sense before being defeated.

Javik on Eden Prime in the Exodus Cluster heard stories about the Crucible. Also on Eden Prime was data on the Crucible's main power source.

Mars in the Local Cluster contained data on the Crucible.

The VI on Thessia in the Athena Nebula also knew about the Crucible.

And that's just what I can remember. A lot of project coordinating in greatly separated spaces for being cut off.

Don't forget the Protheans still had the beacons though, which were used for cross Galactic communication. Even without the mass relays they could talk to each other and share information.

[Mixxer5]

vrumpt wrote...

So, for some reason the Reapers never saw reason in closing off the Mass Relays from one another.

Perhaps the reason is because this cycle was already delayed numerous times from being extinct, it would be better to leave the relays open so the Reapers could quickly travel between systems and deal with the largest threats first. Time is a factor and this cycle already had plenty of it to prepare for the Reapers.

Cycle was delayed for 3 years. Protheans=300 years. Galaxy as we known:about 100 years (Liara say so). 200 years faster. It definietly wasn't because of "deadline".

[ZLurps]

daisekihan wrote...



So Vigil says the Reapers came storming through the Citadel and  immediately took control of the mass relays, isolating each system to be picked off. Yet apparently, they were not only able to start building the Crucible, but there was even a faction that wanted to control the Reapers and opposed it.

So, retcon I guess?

Retcon is nicely put. Completely messed up the history is other way to put it.

[ZLurps]

Edit: double post

Modifié par ZLurps, 17 mars 2012 - 11:56 .

[daisekihan]

Mixxer5 wrote...

vrumpt wrote...

So, for some reason the Reapers never saw reason in closing off the Mass Relays from one another.

Perhaps the reason is because this cycle was already delayed numerous times from being extinct, it would be better to leave the relays open so the Reapers could quickly travel between systems and deal with the largest threats first. Time is a factor and this cycle already had plenty of it to prepare for the Reapers.

Cycle was delayed for 3 years. Protheans=300 years. Galaxy as we known:about 100 years (Liara say so). 200 years faster. It definietly wasn't because of "deadline".

This cycle probably been delayed longer than three. Because the Keepers were no longer calling the Reapers in, the Sovereign got desperate and enlisted the Geth so he could take the Citadel back by force.

[Firas81]

"The citadel is the heart of your civilization and the seat of
government. As it was with us, as it has been with every civilization that came
before us... but the citadel is a trap… The station is actually an enormous
mass-relay… one that links to dark-space; the empty void beyond the galaxy’s
horizon. When the citadel relay is activated the Reapers will pour through… all
you know will be destroyed."

“That was our fate. Our leaders were dead before we even
realized we were under attack. The Reapers seized control of and with THE
MASSRELAYS communication and transportation were crippled. Each star system
was isolated, cut off from the others, easy prey for the Reaper fleets”

Clearly the easiest method to destroying all of these separate civilizations would be to seize control of the citadel again and shut down access, for all ships but their own, to comunicate or traverse the galaxy using the MassRelays.

It's more of a "Why didn't they" than a complete retcon, but still a inconsistent strategy for the method that the Reapers have continually used to wipe out galatic civilization.

Modifié par Firas81, 18 mars 2012 - 12:24 .

[gorgoth]

I always rationalized the question of "Why didn't they go to the citadel and close of the mass relays" because they didn't need to. One of the main reasons they took the citadel first is so they can show up instantly from dark space. So almost instantly they would take the citadel and flood out throw the relay network and quickly smash all defenses, much like the blitzkrieg tactics in world war 2. Since the citadel was closed off to them any surprise they would have had by the time they hit the citadel would have been lost.

When looking at the character of the reapers the exude a feeling of arrogance and invincibility. To them the thought of ever losing just seems stupid. When you consider this then them ignoring the citadel makes sense, in their minds they don't need it to win.

[GnusmasTHX]

Mixxer5 wrote...

vrumpt wrote...

So, for some reason the Reapers never saw reason in closing off the Mass Relays from one another.

Perhaps the reason is because this cycle was already delayed numerous times from being extinct, it would be better to leave the relays open so the Reapers could quickly travel between systems and deal with the largest threats first. Time is a factor and this cycle already had plenty of it to prepare for the Reapers.

Cycle was delayed for 3 years. Protheans=300 years. Galaxy as we known:about 100 years (Liara say so). 200 years faster. It definietly wasn't because of "deadline".

Actually our cycle was delayed for over 2000 years, if you consider Sovereign tampering the rachni and almost destroying the galaxy as Plan A, and Saren as the geth as Plan B.

[Mixxer5]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Mixxer5 wrote...

vrumpt wrote...

So, for some reason the Reapers never saw reason in closing off the Mass Relays from one another.

Perhaps the reason is because this cycle was already delayed numerous times from being extinct, it would be better to leave the relays open so the Reapers could quickly travel between systems and deal with the largest threats first. Time is a factor and this cycle already had plenty of it to prepare for the Reapers.

Cycle was delayed for 3 years. Protheans=300 years. Galaxy as we known:about 100 years (Liara say so). 200 years faster. It definietly wasn't because of "deadline".

Actually our cycle was delayed for over 2000 years, if you consider Sovereign tampering the rachni and almost destroying the galaxy as Plan A, and Saren as the geth as Plan B.

But Reapers came "at last". Even if no one called them. And Protheans were more advanced than "our" cycle- but their cycle wasn't delayed. Asari had Prothean beacon- so they should get their tech fast. Something's wrong with plot...

[daisekihan]

Mixxer5 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Mixxer5 wrote...

vrumpt wrote...

So, for some reason the Reapers never saw reason in closing off the Mass Relays from one another.

Perhaps the reason is because this cycle was already delayed numerous times from being extinct, it would be better to leave the relays open so the Reapers could quickly travel between systems and deal with the largest threats first. Time is a factor and this cycle already had plenty of it to prepare for the Reapers.

Cycle was delayed for 3 years. Protheans=300 years. Galaxy as we known:about 100 years (Liara say so). 200 years faster. It definietly wasn't because of "deadline".

Actually our cycle was delayed for over 2000 years, if you consider Sovereign tampering the rachni and almost destroying the galaxy as Plan A, and Saren as the geth as Plan B.

But Reapers came "at last". Even if no one called them. And Protheans were more advanced than "our" cycle- but their cycle wasn't delayed. Asari had Prothean beacon- so they should get their tech fast. Something's wrong with plot...

The first civilization probably lasted a great deal longer than any other since the cycle began. At least 10,000 years longer than the 50,000 any civilization afterward had, I'd estimate.

[Bad King]

knightoftaurus wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

MB957 wrote...

what does "retcon" mean? Im not familiar with that term

It's changing established canon. For example, in ME2(My memory is foggy) I believe samara says that there are only 3 ardat yakshi in existence.(her 3 daughters) But in ME3 we visit a temple that was full of them? And the banshees, which we fight many times in ME3, are ardat yakshi repurposed by the reapers(the codex specifically says banshees are ardat yakshi transformed). So yea, change in established canon. Generally, from a storytelling perspective, they're considered something you should try to avoid as much as possible.

To be fair, the Codex states that the Reapers targetted asari who were predominantly ardat-yakshi (whether passively or aggressively so), as well as those who had the latent genes.

That being said, yeah that was a very poor retcon. You can't even justify it properly because there's no reason why Samara would lie to you at that point.

Don't blame ME3, ME2 contradicts itself when it comes to Ardat-Yakshi- look at this codex entry from ME2:

http://masseffect.wi...i:_Ardat-Yakshi

[Bad King]

devSin wrote...

Liber320 wrote...

What I don't get is why they didn't take control of the mass relays this time around. Instead they decided to derp around systems until the Normandy happened by

It seems to be a strategic no-brainer, especially given their goals.

Take the Citadel, control the relay network, and isolate your enemies. Then pick them off.

Instead they just jumped randomly around the galaxy and started walking around on useless planets to shoot random people.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and attempt to come up with an explanation. Maybe the citadel closing its arms would make it very difficult to capture (sovereign needed the conduit to bypass this problem in ME1, so we know that this mechanism is capable of stopping even reapers).

So if the reapers had any chance of taking it, they'd have to hit the citadel with a large fleet with enough firepower to break open its shell. This would force the reapers to abandon large scale invasions other locations (Earth, Palaven, Kar'shan etc.) and would give the other races a chance to rally their forces to strike the reapers in the flank while they attempted to take the the citadel, which could be problematic for them.

As for how they gained control of the citadel at the end of the game, I'm guessing they used TIM as an inside man- TIM may have used his magical reaper implants to play jedi mind tricks on C-Sec and infiltrate Citadel control which would allow him to hand control of the citadel over to the reapers who quickly moved it to earth where the bulk of their fleet was busy. Maybe the attempted Cerberus coup was an early reaper plan to try and get control of the citadel and avoid a full scale fleet attack which would have left the reapers vulnerable.

gorgoth wrote...



I always rationalized the question of "Why didn't they go to the citadel and close of the mass relays" because they didn't need to. One of the main reasons they took the citadel first is so they can show up instantly from dark space. So almost instantly they would take the citadel and flood out throw the relay network and quickly smash all defenses, much like the blitzkrieg tactics in world war 2. Since the citadel was closed off to them any surprise they would have had by the time they hit the citadel would have been lost.

When looking at the character of the reapers the exude a feeling of arrogance and invincibility. To them the thought of ever losing just seems stupid. When you consider this then them ignoring the citadel makes sense, in their minds they don't need it to win.

This is also a possibility.

As for the protheans, yeah it does seem like a bit of a retcon, unless perhaps the reapers failed in manipulating all of the mass relays meaning that at least some connections still existed across the empire. This would explain why some systems were isolated while others such as Sol and Athena remained connected.

Another retcon seems to be that Benezia had access to the beacon at the temple of Athame and yet knew nothing about the reapers in ME1 (she thought that Sovereign was just an advanced and unusual dreadnought).

Modifié par Bad King, 28 mars 2012 - 02:02 .

[TuringPoint]

 Ok, the OP is talking about a supposed recon of events in the Prothean era.

The protheans had beacons.

Modifié par Alocormin, 03 février 2014 - 08:23 .