300 réponses à ce sujet

[Mims]

@The Plague Dogs: I like this mention just for the mirror of our situation. In the novel, Richard Adams actually wrote a "DLC" ending to it that is included in most major editions now. It ends happily just for the sake of being happy. If I remember right, he chose to do this. I believe he said something along the lines of, as an author it would end tragically. But as a reader, he wanted it to end happily.

The movie kept the original ending though.

Modifié par Mims, 18 mars 2012 - 04:08 .

[IS1296]

jokingly, the ugly barnacle.

The Grey had me depressed, good movie too

Modifié par IS1296, 18 mars 2012 - 04:09 .

[Xion66]

teknoarcanist wrote...

FLCL -- Events and motivations are ambiguous, but the spectacle (stirring animation and cool music) are so exciting and tonally strong that we forget about it. Follows up with an emotional cooling-down, lets us know where all the characters are, drives home the theme and ratifies the setting.

Red Dead Redemption -- Absolutely perfect. You're told pretty early on that John is probably going to catch the bad guys, but probably isn't going to make it out of this unscathed. And then the game follows through on that promise.

Lord of the Flies -- Similar to 1984, and most "parable" story-types. Drives home the theme, draws verdicts on events, forces us to evaluate events ethically, and then evaluate our own conclusions, and discuss them.

FLCL is so bittersweet but so amazingly well done, so much emotional depth in the middle of the vagueness and the weirdness

[Captain Shakespeare]

Icesong wrote...

Cowboy Bebop

"Bang."

[xeNNN]

Ariq wrote...

Games
Planescape: Torment
Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer
Dragon Age: Origins (at least some of the possibilities are pretty bleak)
FEAR 2

Books
No Country for Old Men
Atonement
Of Mice and Men
Flowers for Algernon
The Green Mile
The Sundering Duology (from a certain point of view)
The collected short fiction of George R. R. Martin (I'm sure at least one has a happy ending, maybe)
To be honest, far too many to continue naming them

Same goes for movies. I think the above is pretty representative of my tastes though.

oh i loved fear 2 i thought it was brilliant, even though i didnt find it remotely scary i thought it was brilliant. 
lol when the nuke goes off near the first mission your just like  "did i just get nuked in the first level of the game?"  lmao.

[nitefyre410]

Gamingtrek12025 wrote...

Final Fantasy 13-2. Everything you set out was acomplished (IE. No plot holes). Did NOT see that ending coming at all. I loved it.

 
^ This 

and what is beautiful about 13-2 ending is that they warn you  a couple of times... very cleverly.  Like after you see Serah with the Seeress Eye , you then  not that much later see  a Yeul with the same eyes and she dies. 

"Change the future and you Change the Past."  

"Within me beats the heart of the Goddess Etro..." 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 18 mars 2012 - 04:16 .

[Karrie788]

West Side Story.

[suusuuu]

Shadow Hears. even though the stuff that happens off screen at first feels like an insult, it fits the game and you grow to accept it when you play the sequel.

[Megachaz]

Inception. LOTS OF SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE!!!

[Vhalkyrie]

Neutral Ground wrote...

Messed up part is I really DO like most ambiguous/bleak endings. Final Fantasy X, for instance, is one of my favorite games, and its ending ACTUALLY INCLUDES (spoilers, by the way) the main character vanishing, not being able to interact with his love interest, the DISSOLUTION OF THE MAGICAL FORCES THAT WERE PART OF WHAT MADE THE WORLD SO ATTRACTIVE, and the loss and simultaneous sense of discovery experienced by characters who had finally broken a seemingly endless cycle.

The difference is it wasn't shoehorned in at the last minute, and it was relevant to the extant narrative. Which, it turns out, makes all the difference.

FFX also warned us that was going to happen.  I expected there would be a scenario where Shepard might have to martyr him/herself.  I didn't expect this sacrifice to be cathartic in explaining what happened after.  In FFX, we know after Tidus defeats Sin, Spira is free, and we see Yuna on the docks.  In ME3, we see the relays blow up and wonder if every freaking species in the Milky Way is stranded in our solar system.

Interesting. FFX story was also about a cycle of destruction and rebirth.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 18 mars 2012 - 04:16 .

[teknoarcanist]

So we can conclude that a good ambiguous ending should ratify the characters and setting, and should probably do its best to satisfy in terms of tonally-proper spectacle.

And we can conclude that a bleak ending should fulfill a promise of inevitability that's been layered into the narrative throughout. Nonetheless, the characters should achieve resolution (whether happy or sad) and the ending should drive home the theme of the narrative. The ending is only bleak for the same reason THE ENTIRE NARRATIVE has been bleak. Since we've already accepted that reason, we don't resist the negativity. It seems unavoidable. Even necessary.

So why does Mass Effect 3 "fail" on these counts, in your opinion?

[Rekia]

Planescape: Torment (Still my favorite game of all time I think). A previous poster makes a good point that no matter which ending you get, you're still damned.

Pan's Labyrinth. When I saw the ending it made me rethink the entire movie in my head. Was it real or was she just being a kid and making it up in her imagination to try to deal with an unfortunate situation?

Stephen King's The Dark Tower series. The ending was kind of vague and certainly not happy, but it really made me go over the entire seven books in my mind to try to imagine how this is going to affect things.

I think a good ending either wraps up things in a satisfying way or it makes you think, to consider the story that brought you to this ending.

The ending to Mass Effect 3 didn't make me think about the journey to this point or make me feel satisfied. It made me feel sick to my stomach every time I see the little ME3 icon on my desktop, to the point where I had to delete that shortcut.

Modifié par Rekia, 18 mars 2012 - 05:45 .

[Sanjuronord]

MaYtriX wrote...

Code Geass, an anime, but still a bleak ending with CLOSURE.

Loved that one, Lelouch remains true to the things he's said from the very beginning of the series.  I choke up everytime I try to watch that last episode.

[Artking3]

Shadow of the Colossus
Metal Gear Solid 4
Planescape: Torment
Bioshock 2
Cowboy Bebop
Pan's Labyrinth

Modifié par Artking3, 18 mars 2012 - 04:31 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Red Dead Redemption.

SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS


Seeing Jack become his father all over again, the exact thing that John did not want and was trying to save him from, was heart breaking but it fit the theme of RDR very well.
That the sins of the father are passed onto the son, and how uncivilized people could be when trying to make civilization is very much a part of the western mythos.

Its tragic, but the ending has more weight than just saying: John went home the end.
Also fits with one of his earlier quotes: "People dont forget. Nothing is forgiven"

[nitefyre410]

Dominus Solanum wrote...

Gamingtrek12025 wrote...

Final Fantasy 13-2. Everything you set out was acomplished (IE. No plot holes). Did NOT see that ending coming at all. I loved it.

Been a lifelong FF fan since the SNES. Have yet to ever play a -2 of any of them. I was kinda iffy on hating or loving XIII for a multitude of reasons but the clincher was not having access to the goddamn crystarium until AFTER the game. And that whole linear level thing that's long been...a part....of FF....tradition.

Worth picking up XIII-2 in a bargain bin?

 

Yes it  is...  It  Square took things  like, choices in the dialogue, and open world  applied in the sense that works for their  style of game.    They did not clone or copy but they made system that works for them.   You will at  certain points in the game live triggers which open up a option to affect what happens next... Some of these also are able to unlock  the 8 Alterante  Paradox Endings. The  Time travel mechnic while the maps  a limit  with it they change some.    The story is presented in Episodes like a TV Show everytime you load your game after turning it off... you get a Previously segement.  

The battle system is going to take some getting used its completely overhauled but once you get hang of its good and challenging

[Neutral Ground]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Neutral Ground wrote...

Messed up part is I really DO like most ambiguous/bleak endings. Final Fantasy X, for instance, is one of my favorite games, and its ending ACTUALLY INCLUDES (spoilers, by the way) the main character vanishing, not being able to interact with his love interest, the DISSOLUTION OF THE MAGICAL FORCES THAT WERE PART OF WHAT MADE THE WORLD SO ATTRACTIVE, and the loss and simultaneous sense of discovery experienced by characters who had finally broken a seemingly endless cycle.

The difference is it wasn't shoehorned in at the last minute, and it was relevant to the extant narrative. Which, it turns out, makes all the difference.

FFX also warned us that was going to happen.  I expected there would be a scenario where Shepard might have to martyr him/herself.  I didn't expect this sacrifice to be cathartic in explaining what happened after.  In FFX, we know after Tidus defeats Sin, Spira is free, and we see Yuna on the docks.  In ME3, we see the relays blow up and wonder if every freaking species in the Milky Way is stranded in our solar system.

Interesting. FFX story was also about a cycle of destruction and rebirth.

That's precisely my point. The particulars of the ending--the god-child, the relays, whatever--aren't the failing, but the EXECUTION is. That is why people who defend the ending are, to my mind, duping themselves at least a little. The ending is sloppy in terms of its writing, and does a terrible job of explaining itself.

Whereas, like you said, in FFX the ending was at least strongly hinted at, and by the time it actually happened, instead of provoking rage, I think most of the audience that was enjoying the game was awestruck and genuinely touched by the incredibly moving power of the tragedy of it. It was beautifully executed, absolutely touching, and those last words that Yuna says, "Never forget them"?  Man, that really capped the game BRILLIANTLY. Part of my enduring love for FFX is that its ending delivered so well on what the game had promised!

For the record, I choose to treat Final Fantasy X-2 as bad fanfiction. I just ignore it.

[RenownedRyan]

Watchmen. Fight Club. Green Mile. Godfather Part 1. (500) Days of Summer. The Social Network. I watch a wide array of movies.

[dannati]

Most of these have been mentioned but:

Games:
Red Dead Redemption
Planescape: Torment
Fallout!
NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer

The common thread here being that the protagonist succeeds, more or less, but also has to face the consequences of their actions, even if they're not "fair."

Books: most William Gibson books qualify. That said, the most relevant one here, I think, is Lev Grossman's recent The Magician King:

"This isn't how it ends!" Quentin said. "I am the hero of this god-damned story, Ember! Remember? And the hero gets the reward!"
"No, Quentin," the ram said. "The hero pays the price."

[KillSlash45]

 Mass Effect 3

[nitefyre410]

Neutral Ground wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Neutral Ground wrote...

Messed up part is I really DO like most ambiguous/bleak endings. Final Fantasy X, for instance, is one of my favorite games, and its ending ACTUALLY INCLUDES (spoilers, by the way) the main character vanishing, not being able to interact with his love interest, the DISSOLUTION OF THE MAGICAL FORCES THAT WERE PART OF WHAT MADE THE WORLD SO ATTRACTIVE, and the loss and simultaneous sense of discovery experienced by characters who had finally broken a seemingly endless cycle.

The difference is it wasn't shoehorned in at the last minute, and it was relevant to the extant narrative. Which, it turns out, makes all the difference.

FFX also warned us that was going to happen.  I expected there would be a scenario where Shepard might have to martyr him/herself.  I didn't expect this sacrifice to be cathartic in explaining what happened after.  In FFX, we know after Tidus defeats Sin, Spira is free, and we see Yuna on the docks.  In ME3, we see the relays blow up and wonder if every freaking species in the Milky Way is stranded in our solar system.

Interesting. FFX story was also about a cycle of destruction and rebirth.

That's precisely my point. The particulars of the ending--the god-child, the relays, whatever--aren't the failing, but the EXECUTION is. That is why people who defend the ending are, to my mind, duping themselves at least a little. The ending is sloppy in terms of its writing, and does a terrible job of explaining itself.

Whereas, like you said, in FFX the ending was at least strongly hinted at, and by the time it actually happened, instead of provoking rage, I think most of the audience that was enjoying the game was awestruck and genuinely touched by the incredibly moving power of the tragedy of it. It was beautifully executed, absolutely touching, and those last words that Yuna says, "Never forget them"?  Man, that really capped the game BRILLIANTLY. Part of my enduring love for FFX is that its ending delivered so well on what the game had promised!

For the record, I choose to treat Final Fantasy X-2 as bad fanfiction. I just ignore it.

 
 
Exactly, once you find out Tidus is the Dream of the Faythe and what the Grand summoning is .. . you knew things were not going end as planned.   Yet what a lot of people fail to realize was that the game was about  Yuna  and not Tidus.... he just served as vechile for to see the story.. he was like the narrator in a sense.    x-2 killed almost all of Yuna developement and it was sad attempt to just bring Tidus back...it made so made.

[Whybother]

On The Beach.

The Road.

Children of Men.

Grave of the Fireflies.

Pan's Labyrinth (lots of dust in the room when I watch this movie.)

Videodrone.

[RenownedRyan]

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. I liked it before it was cool. Red Dead Redemption. LA Noire.

Bleak endings are fine, I've never been one for ambiguous.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Watchmen, The Departed, Red Dead Redemption, Dark Souls, Planescape Torment.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 18 mars 2012 - 04:29 .