300 réponses à ce sujet

[msp]

Planescape: Torment - bleak ending, but still one of my favorite video games. This is the game that made me a gamer.

Blade Runner (The Director's Cut)

Hard To Be a God, Roadside Picnic, 1984, Animal Farm, Of Mice and Men, The Witcher

[ket_shee]

Bioshock (The Good Ending) - Not necessarily bleak, although the main character dies. The entire game was pretty dark though, no strolls through any (non-lethal) gardens.

Bastion (Evacuate Ending) - Also not necessarily bleak in my opinion, but it gave you some things to think about. Who you couldn't reunite, for one.

Braid - Killer ending, loved the twist. Sad as hell, though. Only if you look at from the non-allegorical perspective of course.

Chrono Cross (the 'real' ending) - Oh man, if ever I wanted the hero to get the girl was here.

This is a stretch but...

Fallout: New Vegas DLC "Dead Money" (everyone lived) - Probably the best characters I've gotten to know in a Fallout game and we all split up. Especially Christina, and we only spoke through half the DLC. Dog was also well written, really could have used another Super Mutant on my team too.

[teknoarcanist]

^ You know Chrono Cross is one of my all-time favorite games, and I've never beaten it?

And yet I've spent hundreds of hours in it.

What the hell's up with that?

[Abisco]

prizm123 wrote...

the ending of the tv show "Angel"

YES! 

[adneate]

teknoarcanist wrote...
So why does Mass Effect 3 "fail" on these counts, in your opinion?

Because of Shepard, she/he is not a "Tragic Hero" Shepard has no flaws and nothing to redeem his or herself for. Thus forcing Shepard down a very convoluted Tragic Hero path doesn't work with the character, Shepard isn't terribly realistic and is very much an "Epic Hero" who defies odds and saves the day. So it's the narrative equalivant of trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Made even worse by the fact that this is a video game and Shepard shouldn't really "be" anything in a technical sense, what Shepard is and is not is up to the player. Trying to usurp control of the PC at the 11th hour is evidently a recipe for a horrible disaster, particularily if that character doesn't fit in the box you're trying to clumsily shove them in.

[JeanLuc Awesome]

Alan Wake
Half-Life
Red Dead Redemption
Shadow of Collosus
Dead Space

[chcknwng]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Watchmen, The Departed, Red Dead Redemption, Dark Souls, Planescape Torment.

I can hardly remember how The Departed ended. I did love the ending of the original Hongkong movie. That would be my fav open ended movies.

Talking about bleak books, I love A Song of Ice and Fire and honestly I expect Sheperd and Anderson to die.

I'm surprise nobody's mentioned Soprano yet. If that's not ambiguous I don't know what is. But again I don't know if anybody liked it.

[christrek1982]

Master and Commander

[nitefyre410]

I think my favorite Sad ending in a video game is Metal Gear Solid 3 you can see it Big Boss faces after come back... he hates them with a passion for what they did to the Boss.

TV show... Angel

Movies: Glory and Rosewood.

[Vhalkyrie]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Neutral Ground wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Neutral Ground wrote...

Messed up part is I really DO like most ambiguous/bleak endings. Final Fantasy X, for instance, is one of my favorite games, and its ending ACTUALLY INCLUDES (spoilers, by the way) the main character vanishing, not being able to interact with his love interest, the DISSOLUTION OF THE MAGICAL FORCES THAT WERE PART OF WHAT MADE THE WORLD SO ATTRACTIVE, and the loss and simultaneous sense of discovery experienced by characters who had finally broken a seemingly endless cycle.

The difference is it wasn't shoehorned in at the last minute, and it was relevant to the extant narrative. Which, it turns out, makes all the difference.

FFX also warned us that was going to happen.  I expected there would be a scenario where Shepard might have to martyr him/herself.  I didn't expect this sacrifice to be cathartic in explaining what happened after.  In FFX, we know after Tidus defeats Sin, Spira is free, and we see Yuna on the docks.  In ME3, we see the relays blow up and wonder if every freaking species in the Milky Way is stranded in our solar system.

Interesting. FFX story was also about a cycle of destruction and rebirth.

That's precisely my point. The particulars of the ending--the god-child, the relays, whatever--aren't the failing, but the EXECUTION is. That is why people who defend the ending are, to my mind, duping themselves at least a little. The ending is sloppy in terms of its writing, and does a terrible job of explaining itself.

Whereas, like you said, in FFX the ending was at least strongly hinted at, and by the time it actually happened, instead of provoking rage, I think most of the audience that was enjoying the game was awestruck and genuinely touched by the incredibly moving power of the tragedy of it. It was beautifully executed, absolutely touching, and those last words that Yuna says, "Never forget them"?  Man, that really capped the game BRILLIANTLY. Part of my enduring love for FFX is that its ending delivered so well on what the game had promised!

For the record, I choose to treat Final Fantasy X-2 as bad fanfiction. I just ignore it.

 
 
Exactly, once you find out Tidus is the Dream of the Faythe and what the Grand summoning is .. . you knew things were not going end as planned.   Yet what a lot of people fail to realize was that the game was about  Yuna  and not Tidus.... he just served as vechile for to see the story.. he was like the narrator in a sense.    x-2 killed almost all of Yuna developement and it was sad attempt to just bring Tidus back...it made so made.

In order to execute a FFX style ending in ME3, we would have had to been told how to work the crucible, and that it would destroy the relays several scenes before the final.  In FFX we weren't told about the Faythe and Grand Summoning 5 minutes before we battle Sin.  We're told about it about mid-late game, what the consequence will be, and spend that time agonizing over the inevitable separation of Tidus and Yuna.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 18 mars 2012 - 04:42 .

[Darth Howie]

Brazil. I love the ending of Brazil. Bleak as hell, but somehow beautiful.

[teknoarcanist]

wngmv wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Watchmen, The Departed, Red Dead Redemption, Dark Souls, Planescape Torment.

I can hardly remember how The Departed ended. I did love the ending of the original Hongkong movie. That would be my fav open ended movies.

Talking about bleak books, I love A Song of Ice and Fire and honestly I expect Sheperd and Anderson to die.

I'm surprise nobody's mentioned Soprano yet. If that's not ambiguous I don't know what is. But again I don't know if anybody liked it.

The ending to the Sopranos has been mentioned quite a bit. 

And actually, it's really not all that ambiguous.  Maybe during the first viewing.  But once you think about it (or have someone explain it to you) it's pretty straightforward, and you go, "Oh yeah, the guy came out of the bathroom and shot him, and then it just ended, because that's what they were talking about death being like a few episodes ago."

[Synonamess]

Donnie Darko

[nitefyre410]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

*Snips* 
In order to execute a FFX style ending in ME3, we would have had to been told how to work the crucible, and that it would destroy the relays several scenes before the final.  In FFX we weren't told about the Faythe 5 minutes before we battle Sin.  We're told about it about mid game, and spend that time agonizing over the inevitable separation of Tidus and Yuna.

 

I know,  Bioware wishes they could have pulled of what Square did FF X . Mass Effect 3 would have been served better with a "Earn  your happy ending" Type ending  for who  worked for  and varring degrees on down to the worst possilbe ending.   

[ket_shee]

teknoarcanist wrote...

^ You know Chrono Cross is one of my all-time favorite games, and I've never beaten it?

And yet I've spent hundreds of hours in it.

What the hell's up with that?

My god man, you should replay the game and beat it. The endings are hilarious, emotional, and imaginative.

And also, thats whats wrong with ME3's endings. "16 wildly divergent endings," but they forgot to footnote endings* to define later as *by endings we mean the entire game.

Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross had wildly divergent endings. THATS what I heard when they made that statement, and drove me not only to pay full retail price for the game, but also to PRE order it AND attend it's midnight release.

Have you ever been to a  Gamestop in Rural Idaho at a  midnight release? It reeks of bacon.

Modifié par ket_shee, 18 mars 2012 - 04:45 .

[Neutral Ground]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Neutral Ground wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Neutral Ground wrote...

Messed up part is I really DO like most ambiguous/bleak endings. Final Fantasy X, for instance, is one of my favorite games, and its ending ACTUALLY INCLUDES (spoilers, by the way) the main character vanishing, not being able to interact with his love interest, the DISSOLUTION OF THE MAGICAL FORCES THAT WERE PART OF WHAT MADE THE WORLD SO ATTRACTIVE, and the loss and simultaneous sense of discovery experienced by characters who had finally broken a seemingly endless cycle.

The difference is it wasn't shoehorned in at the last minute, and it was relevant to the extant narrative. Which, it turns out, makes all the difference.

FFX also warned us that was going to happen.  I expected there would be a scenario where Shepard might have to martyr him/herself.  I didn't expect this sacrifice to be cathartic in explaining what happened after.  In FFX, we know after Tidus defeats Sin, Spira is free, and we see Yuna on the docks.  In ME3, we see the relays blow up and wonder if every freaking species in the Milky Way is stranded in our solar system.

Interesting. FFX story was also about a cycle of destruction and rebirth.

That's precisely my point. The particulars of the ending--the god-child, the relays, whatever--aren't the failing, but the EXECUTION is. That is why people who defend the ending are, to my mind, duping themselves at least a little. The ending is sloppy in terms of its writing, and does a terrible job of explaining itself.

Whereas, like you said, in FFX the ending was at least strongly hinted at, and by the time it actually happened, instead of provoking rage, I think most of the audience that was enjoying the game was awestruck and genuinely touched by the incredibly moving power of the tragedy of it. It was beautifully executed, absolutely touching, and those last words that Yuna says, "Never forget them"?  Man, that really capped the game BRILLIANTLY. Part of my enduring love for FFX is that its ending delivered so well on what the game had promised!

For the record, I choose to treat Final Fantasy X-2 as bad fanfiction. I just ignore it.

 
 
Exactly, once you find out Tidus is the Dream of the Faythe and what the Grand summoning is .. . you knew things were not going end as planned.   Yet what a lot of people fail to realize was that the game was about  Yuna  and not Tidus.... he just served as vechile for to see the story.. he was like the narrator in a sense.    x-2 killed almost all of Yuna developement and it was sad attempt to just bring Tidus back...it made so made.

In order to execute a FFX style ending in ME3, we would have had to been told how to work the crucible, and that it would destroy the relays several scenes before the final.  In FFX we weren't told about the Faythe and Grand Summoning 5 minutes before we battle Sin.  We're told about it about mid-late game, what the consequence will be, and spend that time agonizing over the inevitable separation of Tidus and Yuna.

We would need MUCH more than that. The entire tenor of the narrative would need a drastic overhaul.

Quick, what is the FIRST thing you hear in FFX?

"Listen to my story. This may be our last chance."

Immediately, while you do feel a sense of union (this may be "our" last chance, which may be the game's party of characters, or "our" meaning "Tidus and the player"; I believe this is intentionally unclear), it's also illustrated that this will be a story about a specific, clearly outlined character (my story), and that it will also probably be, in some way, pretty sad (last chance). This is built upon throughout the entire game.

However, what is the FIRST thing you hear/do in Mass Effect?

"Profile reconstruction failed. Please reconstruct your profile" (Or you might just get the option to approve everything and go with standard Shep). In either scenario, you are IMMEDIATELY thrust into the storytelling process where YOU have an effect on the story. The first thing you hear after that is Anderson talking about the story you just made! The first moments of Mass Effect emphasize player choice. Then, the rest of the series builds on that.

That is why Mass Effect can't get away with FFX's ending.

[Whybother]

Darth Howie wrote...

Brazil. I love the ending of Brazil. Bleak as hell, but somehow beautiful.

Director's cut, right?  Yes, forgot about that one.

[teknoarcanist]

Neutral Ground wrote...

Quick, what is the FIRST thing you hear in FFX?

"Listen to my story. This may be our last chance."

Immediately, while you do feel a sense of union (this may be "our" last chance, which may be the game's party of characters, or "our" meaning "Tidus and the player"; I believe this is intentionally unclear), it's also illustrated that this will be a story about a specific, clearly outlined character (my story), and that it will also probably be, in some way, pretty sad (last chance). This is built upon throughout the entire game.

However, what is the FIRST thing you hear/do in Mass Effect?

"Profile reconstruction failed. Please reconstruct your profile" (Or you might just get the option to approve everything and go with standard Shep). In either scenario, you are IMMEDIATELY thrust into the storytelling process where YOU have an effect on the story. The first thing you hear after that is Anderson talking about the story you just made! The first moments of Mass Effect emphasize player choice. Then, the rest of the series builds on that.

That is why Mass Effect can't get away with FFX's ending.

Well said.

[GuilleCuba]

I N C E P T I O N

[nitefyre410]

ket_shee wrote...

teknoarcanist wrote...

^ You know Chrono Cross is one of my all-time favorite games, and I've never beaten it?

And yet I've spent hundreds of hours in it.

What the hell's up with that?

My god man, you should replay the game and beat it. The endings are hilarious, emotional, and imaginative.

And also, thats whats wrong with ME3's endings. "16 wildly divergent endings," but they forgot to footnote endings* to define later as *by endings we mean the entire game.

Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross had wildly divergent endings. THATS what I heard when they made that statement, and drove me not only to pay full retail price for the game, but also to PRE order it AND attend it's midnight release.

Have you ever been to a  Gamestop in Rural Idaho at a  midnight release? It reeks of bacon.

 


You what made the Chrono Chrono  " Real" Ending so good from me... what you had to do to get it..  not have to kill the last  boss. That was something that I never seen in a game sense... very nice twist. 

[Darth Howie]

Whybother wrote...

Darth Howie wrote...

Brazil. I love the ending of Brazil. Bleak as hell, but somehow beautiful.

Director's cut, right?  Yes, forgot about that one.

Actually, Terry Gilliam won his battle with the studio and got the cut he wanted.  The studio mandated "Love Conquers All" cut was kept in the vault for years until the Criterion Collection version of Brazil was released.  The bleak ending of Brazil was what made it to the theaters.  

Modifié par Darth Howie, 18 mars 2012 - 04:53 .

[Arkonian7]

2001: A Space Odyssey

[thehomeworld]

Everyone dies in Siren and or goes insane this makes sense because all the characters slowly at their own times come to the realization that no matter what they will become shibito the rain they can't get away from is changing them some kill themselves to try to save themselves from this fate and fail, others kill their siblings in madness, and no one is spared of the 9 people you play as. That game wouldn't have been right with a happy ending or someone escaped and didn't turn ending.

[nitefyre410]

Neutral Ground wrote...

*snip* 


We would need MUCH more than that. The entire tenor of the narrative would need a drastic overhaul.

Quick, what is the FIRST thing you hear in FFX?

"Listen to my story. This may be our last chance."

Immediately, while you do feel a sense of union (this may be "our" last chance, which may be the game's party of characters, or "our" meaning "Tidus and the player"; I believe this is intentionally unclear), it's also illustrated that this will be a story about a specific, clearly outlined character (my story), and that it will also probably be, in some way, pretty sad (last chance). This is built upon throughout the entire game.

However, what is the FIRST thing you hear/do in Mass Effect?

"Profile reconstruction failed. Please reconstruct your profile" (Or you might just get the option to approve everything and go with standard Shep). In either scenario, you are IMMEDIATELY thrust into the storytelling process where YOU have an effect on the story. The first thing you hear after that is Anderson talking about the story you just made! The first moments of Mass Effect emphasize player choice. Then, the rest of the series builds on that.

That is why Mass Effect can't get away with FFX's ending.

 

Exactly... damn this thread is making my proud. That is what fails about  Mass Effect 3 ending.. its just trying to be something that its not. 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 18 mars 2012 - 04:54 .