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Sometimes people forget that BioWare are... people.


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#1
DigitalMaster37

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I swear that sometimes people can be so twisted by what they want that they forget to be human. 

I think the message is loud and clear for BioWare now. We spoke our peace, made our case and continue to do so. Some of us do it more civil than others. I am in the crowd that really doesn't like the ending, but there is a line in the sand for me where going too far is simply going too far. After reading some devs responses and then the reaction to those responses, some people are being really "over the top". There has to come a point where you realize what forms of protest or argument work and which ones don't. I hate to say it, but if you can't speak your peace, protest in a civil way and then move on for this issue, then maybe you need to get back to life... whatever that is for you.

The dev's at BioWare are human just like us, they make a living doing what they do, we make a living doing whatever it is we do. Learn to put yourself in others shoes, it is what makes us human afterall because in one way or another you might have been in the other's shoes in some way.

BioWare just made a game that they love and have poured a ton of their life and time into. sacrifices and so on, so on. We've pretty much nailed home the point of dislike for the endings, now I think people are abusing this movement. It goes back to a lesson I hope most of us learned when we were young: Treat others as you would have them treat you, and if you haven't learned that lesson, then I am not speaking to you whatsoever, cause you might be a lost cause. 

So in this thread I call out to those of us who are trying to do this in a civil way. 

Here is my stand:

- I want the endings changed for most of the same reasons you do, but I made my case. I donated to the RetakeMe3 movement.

- I have voted in the polls. 

- I have contributed to the change Me3 thread created by Jessica. 

But this is where I personally draw the line. 

I like BioWare games, so damnit, I will play BioWare games. Hell I love ME3 immensely outside of the ending. Protesting by not buying their games does what in the long run?

- it makes sure that they don't have the money to make more games that we love
- it makes sure that LESS DLC comes out which can effect exactly what you're (We're) asking for


So while I am a part of this movement to change the endings, I am still using my brain. I will support BioWare, for the simple fact that I want to see a change in the endings. 

If those changes do not come in some form or another and what we have heard so far proves to be lies and untrue, then I'd say, I will not support by buying DLC I am not interested in. But there it goes again, I WON'T BUY DLC I AM NOT INTERESTED IN

Sometimes we get so passionate that we lose our intelligence. Raw power is useless without intelligence on how to use it. We have power as consumers, but when you do not use it intelligently, you in fact lose in one way or another. I don't know about you, but as a fan of games, regardless of who you are, nobody makes games like BioWare. You may like the way others make games as I do to, but there will never be another BioWare, so I will support them to the end unless I see proof that they want to mistreat me as a fan and consumer. After watching what they have done with each game throughout this series, they've done nothing but listen to fan feedback.

Shall we?:

ME1: we complained about combat, interface issues and so many more

- most of all of that was fixed for ME2

ME2: Many beloved ME1 characters were left out in the cold, in particular for me it was Liara

- Enter LofSB and other examples like this.

ME3: it's been out for two weeks and people are ready to give up... see how stupid that looks. 

This list is honestly pathetic when you think of all the ways they have listened. I only named a very small amount.


I don't know about you, but I am afraid common sense is in short supply on the BSN lately (At least this week)

But BioWare I want you to know that you still have fans that believe in you and will stick this out until you have a chance to make a move on this issue. 

And because I am sure not many of you had a chance to feel that your work wasn't in vain, I want to say thank you all for your hard work on this game. Tell your wives and husbands that there are some fans that thank them for allowing you to work hours upon hours and overtime to make this game for us. You are appreciated!


Some of us are human and can put the shoe on the other foot. 

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 18 mars 2012 - 04:42 .


#2
FoxShadowblade

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While I still believe BioWare is listening to our concerns and make a dlc patch to thr endings, I don't blame people for wanting news right away.

#3
Brahlis

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They're people that just **** on my chest.

I expect them to clean it up.

#4
DigitalMaster37

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FoxShadowblade wrote...

While I still believe BioWare is listening to our concerns and make a dlc patch to thr endings, I don't blame people for wanting news right away.


But that isn't normal for any large corporation. As a business man myself, I understand things just don't happen that way. There is an addage that says, a small company is like a mouse, changes come fast and easy. With a larger corporation it is like an elaphant, quick turns are not possible and changes take time. Patience is the order of the day, you have to give them a chance. Everything they've done since we've been crying out says they are doing what they can to change and speak to us giving us the best they can. 

As a business man I know that is how it is. 

#5
Sovereign z

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They really need to say something. As each day passes, Bioware continues to dig themselves a deeper ditch for themselves.

#6
Nageth

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Honestly, Bioware responding immediately would give us no better closure than what the game shipped with. Hopefully they sit down and think of a way to clean up some of the issues with the ending and get back to us when they have something meaningful to say. (I'm hoping they focus on the Joker run away part and explain that.)

Modifié par Nageth, 18 mars 2012 - 04:48 .


#7
Silent Rage

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You wouldn't think so they way the respond to people on twitter.

#8
DigitalMaster37

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Sovereign z wrote...

They really need to say something. As each day passes, Bioware continues to dig themselves a deeper ditch for themselves.


I disagree. They are speaking. It's as if you want info on that DLC now.

ever think that they need to create it first?

How can they talk about something that probably wasn't planned???

Then, I'd bet you say they should have known what the response would be... then I'd point you to my first statement that is in the title, They are HUMAN. Give them a chance.

#9
DaosX

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Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

The dev's at BioWare are human just like us, they make a living doing what they do, we make a living doing whatever it is we do. Learn to put yourself in others shoes, it is what makes us human afterall because in one way or another you might have been in the other's shoes in some way.

BioWare just made a game that they love and have poured a ton of their life and time into. sacrifices and so on, so on. We've pretty much nailed home the point of dislike for the endings, now I think people are abusing this movement. It goes back to a lesson I hope most of us learned when we were young: Treat others as you would have them treat you, and if you haven't learned that lesson, then I am not speaking to you whatsoever, cause you might be a lost cause. 


While I do agree with your point about how humans err...but I truly don't think this was a case of human error. This was omitting content from the game. LIke all the people who are posting indoctrination theories (and even some Bioware employees are sort of hinting at it as well), it gives the impression that Bioware left out the ending on purpose with the intention of selling it as "DLC". What they didn't bargain for was just how bad of a backlash it would have on them. They let their greed get in the way and now they're paying for it.

#10
jb1983

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Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

FoxShadowblade wrote...

While I still believe BioWare is listening to our concerns and make a dlc patch to thr endings, I don't blame people for wanting news right away.


But that isn't normal for any large corporation. As a business man myself, I understand things just don't happen that way. There is an addage that says, a small company is like a mouse, changes come fast and easy. With a larger corporation it is like an elaphant, quick turns are not possible and changes take time. Patience is the order of the day, you have to give them a chance. Everything they've done since we've been crying out says they are doing what they can to change and speak to us giving us the best they can. 

As a business man I know that is how it is. 


No. 

It doesn't take a long time to make an announcement or to release a few sentences saying an ending DLC is on its way, release TBA. 

I've worked in both small business and corporations. In the corporation I work for, the few times we get bad press we're usually on it that day. We formulate a quick response and say that we're "working towards a solution." We make it as clear as we can that we are working on a solution for the problem. 

Bioware has no excuse really.

#11
tommythetomcat

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People who are accountable to people with money.

It's the sad fact that when you become big and get bought up you lose a lot of the charm that you start out with and just focus on what makes the most money. Things like multiplayer, which I do enjoy but that's not the point I'm making.

#12
jb1983

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Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Sovereign z wrote...

They really need to say something. As each day passes, Bioware continues to dig themselves a deeper ditch for themselves.


I disagree. They are speaking. It's as if you want info on that DLC now.

ever think that they need to create it first?

How can they talk about something that probably wasn't planned???

Then, I'd bet you say they should have known what the response would be... then I'd point you to my first statement that is in the title, They are HUMAN. Give them a chance.


All they have to say is, "Ending DLC content will be made. Release, details, and plot is TBA at this point." 

That's it. They do that and the controversy loses all steam.

#13
spartan5127

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Bioware is indeed made up of people and only a few should feel bad from the outcry against the ending as most of the team was responsible for the awesome parts of the game.

It is important to be civil to the developers themselves. That being said, it is important to keep making noise so that EA gets on board with approving alternate endings because that is who is making the decision on the matter.

#14
SamFlagg

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I think the difference is the ambiguity.  And I say that because all previous things that were improved were either improved between games (not an option here) or as additional new content.  Once you get into retconning events I think it all starts to become very tricky.

(Note this is coming as a person who definatally wants them to do that, its just it is almost certainly looked at differently.)

When it all comes down to it I think they're not going to tell us whether or not there will be a new ending until they figure out of the options on the table to do it which one they would want to use if any.

#15
Nageth

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DaosX wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

The dev's at BioWare are human just like us, they make a living doing what they do, we make a living doing whatever it is we do. Learn to put yourself in others shoes, it is what makes us human afterall because in one way or another you might have been in the other's shoes in some way.

BioWare just made a game that they love and have poured a ton of their life and time into. sacrifices and so on, so on. We've pretty much nailed home the point of dislike for the endings, now I think people are abusing this movement. It goes back to a lesson I hope most of us learned when we were young: Treat others as you would have them treat you, and if you haven't learned that lesson, then I am not speaking to you whatsoever, cause you might be a lost cause. 


While I do agree with your point about how humans err...but I truly don't think this was a case of human error. This was omitting content from the game. LIke all the people who are posting indoctrination theories (and even some Bioware employees are sort of hinting at it as well), it gives the impression that Bioware left out the ending on purpose with the intention of selling it as "DLC". What they didn't bargain for was just how bad of a backlash it would have on them. They let their greed get in the way and now they're paying for it.


The problem with conspiracy theories is you can invent one for almost any situation.

#16
RaptorZefier

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Deltaboy37-1 wrote...



But this is where I personally draw the line. 

I like BioWare games, so damnit, I will play BioWare games. Hell I love ME3 immensely outside of the ending. Protesting by not buying their games does what in the long run?

- it makes sure that they don't have the money to make more games that we love
- it makes sure that LESS DLC comes out which can effect exactly what you're (We're) asking for



Just about the same stance I have. I'm not happy with the ending and I'd like it changed, but dang, the rest of the game was great and for what it's worth I'm still absolutely fascinated by the universe and lore, I may wait a bit for the next ME game, see how it pans out, but that's more hesitation built by DA2 then this game's ending. 

If an ME game or DLC pique's my interest, I'm going for it.  Just so you know you're not alone out there. I may show caution, but I'm not boycotting them. I'm confident they know where they messed up. 

#17
DigitalMaster37

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DaosX wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

The dev's at BioWare are human just like us, they make a living doing what they do, we make a living doing whatever it is we do. Learn to put yourself in others shoes, it is what makes us human afterall because in one way or another you might have been in the other's shoes in some way.

BioWare just made a game that they love and have poured a ton of their life and time into. sacrifices and so on, so on. We've pretty much nailed home the point of dislike for the endings, now I think people are abusing this movement. It goes back to a lesson I hope most of us learned when we were young: Treat others as you would have them treat you, and if you haven't learned that lesson, then I am not speaking to you whatsoever, cause you might be a lost cause. 


While I do agree with your point about how humans err...but I truly don't think this was a case of human error. This was omitting content from the game. LIke all the people who are posting indoctrination theories (and even some Bioware employees are sort of hinting at it as well), it gives the impression that Bioware left out the ending on purpose with the intention of selling it as "DLC". What they didn't bargain for was just how bad of a backlash it would have on them. They let their greed get in the way and now they're paying for it.


See though, everything you said is speculation. When you have proof that this is what they did, then come back and discuss it, because a decision or conclusion coming from incomplete information is not a sound one. 

#18
irishScott3

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Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Sovereign z wrote...

They really need to say something. As each day passes, Bioware continues to dig themselves a deeper ditch for themselves.


I disagree. They are speaking. It's as if you want info on that DLC now.

ever think that they need to create it first?

How can they talk about something that probably wasn't planned???

Then, I'd bet you say they should have known what the response would be... then I'd point you to my first statement that is in the title, They are HUMAN. Give them a chance.


How about: We acknowledge the concerns of our fans about the endings and are in the early stages of producing  DLC that should address their concerns.

Is that so hard?

Modifié par irishScott3, 18 mars 2012 - 04:51 .


#19
RagingCeltik

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Retake Mass Effect: Mission Statement and Goals
http://social.biowar...ndex/10160364/1

We acknowledge the great talent and creativity of Bioware and its staff. That is first and foremost. We are here because their passion became our passion.

Modifié par RagingCeltik, 18 mars 2012 - 04:52 .


#20
Deemz

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Sovereign z wrote...

They really need to say something. As each day passes, Bioware continues to dig themselves a deeper ditch for themselves.


THIS ^

#21
Reptilian Rob

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Brahlis wrote...

They're people that just **** on my chest.

I expect them to clean it up.

Haha, very true.

They are also people that blatently lied to us. 

#22
Bioras

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I have said this before...They are people. This for many has been almost a decade. At times they have little time for family. I really do feel for them.
I wonder if they even understand what they created. They did such an amazing job...that they roused thousands against them when the ending did not meet what we thought it should be.

#23
BDelacroix

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I haven't forgotten. I know they are people. That's why its so disappointing. I know they can do better.

#24
Bigdoser

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jb1983 wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Sovereign z wrote...

They really need to say something. As each day passes, Bioware continues to dig themselves a deeper ditch for themselves.


I disagree. They are speaking. It's as if you want info on that DLC now.

ever think that they need to create it first?

How can they talk about something that probably wasn't planned???

Then, I'd bet you say they should have known what the response would be... then I'd point you to my first statement that is in the title, They are HUMAN. Give them a chance.


All they have to say is, "Ending DLC content will be made. Release, details, and plot is TBA at this point." 

That's it. They do that and the controversy loses all steam.

Yup if bioware don't say something like this bioware is not getting my money. Its that simple.

#25
DigitalMaster37

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jb1983 wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

FoxShadowblade wrote...

While I still believe BioWare is listening to our concerns and make a dlc patch to thr endings, I don't blame people for wanting news right away.


But that isn't normal for any large corporation. As a business man myself, I understand things just don't happen that way. There is an addage that says, a small company is like a mouse, changes come fast and easy. With a larger corporation it is like an elaphant, quick turns are not possible and changes take time. Patience is the order of the day, you have to give them a chance. Everything they've done since we've been crying out says they are doing what they can to change and speak to us giving us the best they can. 

As a business man I know that is how it is. 


No. 

It doesn't take a long time to make an announcement or to release a few sentences saying an ending DLC is on its way, release TBA. 

I've worked in both small business and corporations. In the corporation I work for, the few times we get bad press we're usually on it that day. We formulate a quick response and say that we're "working towards a solution." We make it as clear as we can that we are working on a solution for the problem. 

Bioware has no excuse really.


To respond, your issue is perspective. What you said is how you respond to a mistake or something faulty. Now I know we may view it that way, but they don't as it is a work of art and not an object that doesn't work anymore for instance or shipped faulty. 

Instead it is a disagreement on quality. And to further drive the point home, look at Chris' and Jessica's post. THAT IS A RESPONSE. Looking for information is basically saying in uncertain terms that "we want to know what you feel" so they can make changes. 

I swear we are at a place in society where everything must be RIGHT NOW and in reality it doesn't. Patience is in short supply and it is sad to see.