263 réponses à ce sujet

[DigitalMaster37]

jb1983 wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Stop derailing the topic. If you have nothing to say on the topic then let it go, troll some other thread.

Our conversation was on the front page as well. Your topic isn't anymore important then...

Ok, I'll stop.

If you feel that way, then don't respond in this thread, go post in another. that's logical right? or am I giving you too much credit?

So that's the civility you were talking about. I get it now. 

Exactly, I totally told him a thing or two very respectfully. That is in fact a good example of what I am talking about. I never said "YOU IDIOT, get OUTTA MAH THREAD" 
I basically said, I am giving you credit for being civil and logical, was I wrong for doing that?"


Can't get more civil than that, especially when someone is trolling. 

[DigitalMaster37]

Turtlicious wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Stop derailing the topic. If you have nothing to say on the topic then let it go, troll some other thread.

Our conversation was on the front page as well. Your topic isn't anymore important then...

Ok, I'll stop.

If you feel that way, then don't respond in this thread, go post in another. that's logical right? or am I giving you too much credit?

So that's the civility you were talking about. I get it now. 

I apologized, you're right, I was being a **** running with a joke in someone elses thread. I wouldn't like it if someone tried to derail my thread like that, and I shouldn't have done it to you.

I'm being awful, I'm sorry.

If you are serious, apology taken and appreciated. 

[Turtlicious]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Stop derailing the topic. If you have nothing to say on the topic then let it go, troll some other thread.

Our conversation was on the front page as well. Your topic isn't anymore important then...

Ok, I'll stop.

If you feel that way, then don't respond in this thread, go post in another. that's logical right? or am I giving you too much credit?

So that's the civility you were talking about. I get it now. 

Exactly, I totally told him a thing or two very respectfully. That is in fact a good example of what I am talking about. I never said "YOU IDIOT, get OUTTA MAH THREAD" 
I basically said, I am giving you credit for being civil and logical, was I wrong for doing that?"


Can't get more civil than that, especially when someone is trolling. 

She was being respectful, honestly, she was. I think more people need to sack up and apologize when they are wrong.

[jb1983]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...


And that is just proof of what someone said earlier. Being on the same side attacking each other. You never had to sell the fact that the ending is bad. I said that in the OP post. My argument is that you are defending those who are reacting in a negative unconstructive way. My main argument is against pointless steps to get what we want. Cancelling SWTOR is absurd to say the least if people really understood how BioWare is structured. YOu might as well say people should protest BF3 because yeah EA owns that too just as they own BioWare. 

So maybe we have gotten off track a bit. My original statement is regarding seeing the employees at BioWare as people and acting in such a way to take that into account when making the decisions we're making. It's better to look from the outside in rather than vice versa. 

No one is trying to win, but if I prove my point better than you do yours... 

You really are concerned about winning an argument on the internet? Really? You just insulted yourself more than I ever could have hoped to.

Regarding what you're saying, my original critique of your position is that you're approaching it from the wrong direction. As I stated, it doesn't take much for a company to say, "We're working/going to work on ending DLC. We don't know when it will be out. We have no details. But it's on its way." That doesn't require the company to change the course of its ship. It's a simple statement that can deflate a lot of controversy. 

Your response was essentialy, "LOL! Nope" and then went off on a tangent about how it can't be fixed in a few weeks, blah, blah, blah. Of course, all I was talking about was releasing a statement. For all I care they could say, "We're going to fix it, but it may not be fixed until the Fall/Winter." Okay, that would upset some people, but at least we'd know they're working on it. 

So is it right when people attack the employees of Bioware? No, not really. But they're not wrong for attacking Bioware as a corporation or a company. They're not wrong for boycotting other elements of Bioware (though I think that's ultimately futile, it's not wrong). They're not wrong for not wanting to buy further products of Bioware (in fact, who can blame them?). That's the whole point I was making. 

But hey, thanks for not scorching me with your abilities that would make Super Man look inadequate. 

As a businessman, with so many factors going into a decision like this, you think its all about just making a statement. 

Did you see the uproar about the statements already made by BioWare so far. Yeah think about that for a second. People read into stuff way too far sometimes, so I can understand why BioWare may feel like they would be walking on eggshells if they commit to a statement this early. There will be board meetings dicussing this first, and then when they get some plan concrete they will talk to us about it. So no I 110% disagree with you that it should be that easy for BioWare. It's not. As a business I'd thought you'd know that. 

The uproar was because it was vague. I'm talking about making a direct statement that doesn't leave anything for the imagination. "We're doing an ending DLC" leaves absolutely no room for "will they/won't they" speculation. 

And yes, that would deflate the issue. I'm not saying "it's all about just making a decision." Cripes, can you read? I've consistently said that it would deflate the situation. Deflate does not equal "solve." There's no need for a board meeting on this either - if you're going to fix the problem, you make a statement saying so. 

Also, "as a business I thought you'd know that." I'm not a business. I'm an individual human being. I'm beginning to think your problem is you don't understand basic ontology. 

[DigitalMaster37]

jb1983 wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...


And that is just proof of what someone said earlier. Being on the same side attacking each other. You never had to sell the fact that the ending is bad. I said that in the OP post. My argument is that you are defending those who are reacting in a negative unconstructive way. My main argument is against pointless steps to get what we want. Cancelling SWTOR is absurd to say the least if people really understood how BioWare is structured. YOu might as well say people should protest BF3 because yeah EA owns that too just as they own BioWare. 

So maybe we have gotten off track a bit. My original statement is regarding seeing the employees at BioWare as people and acting in such a way to take that into account when making the decisions we're making. It's better to look from the outside in rather than vice versa. 

No one is trying to win, but if I prove my point better than you do yours... 

You really are concerned about winning an argument on the internet? Really? You just insulted yourself more than I ever could have hoped to.

Regarding what you're saying, my original critique of your position is that you're approaching it from the wrong direction. As I stated, it doesn't take much for a company to say, "We're working/going to work on ending DLC. We don't know when it will be out. We have no details. But it's on its way." That doesn't require the company to change the course of its ship. It's a simple statement that can deflate a lot of controversy. 

Your response was essentialy, "LOL! Nope" and then went off on a tangent about how it can't be fixed in a few weeks, blah, blah, blah. Of course, all I was talking about was releasing a statement. For all I care they could say, "We're going to fix it, but it may not be fixed until the Fall/Winter." Okay, that would upset some people, but at least we'd know they're working on it. 

So is it right when people attack the employees of Bioware? No, not really. But they're not wrong for attacking Bioware as a corporation or a company. They're not wrong for boycotting other elements of Bioware (though I think that's ultimately futile, it's not wrong). They're not wrong for not wanting to buy further products of Bioware (in fact, who can blame them?). That's the whole point I was making. 

But hey, thanks for not scorching me with your abilities that would make Super Man look inadequate. 

As a businessman, with so many factors going into a decision like this, you think its all about just making a statement. 

Did you see the uproar about the statements already made by BioWare so far. Yeah think about that for a second. People read into stuff way too far sometimes, so I can understand why BioWare may feel like they would be walking on eggshells if they commit to a statement this early. There will be board meetings dicussing this first, and then when they get some plan concrete they will talk to us about it. So no I 110% disagree with you that it should be that easy for BioWare. It's not. As a business I'd thought you'd know that. 

The uproar was because it was vague. I'm talking about making a direct statement that doesn't leave anything for the imagination. "We're doing an ending DLC" leaves absolutely no room for "will they/won't they" speculation. 

And yes, that would deflate the issue. I'm not saying "it's all about just making a decision." Cripes, can you read? I've consistently said that it would deflate the situation. Deflate does not equal "solve." There's no need for a board meeting on this either - if you're going to fix the problem, you make a statement saying so. 

Also, "as a business I thought you'd know that." I'm not a business. I'm an individual human being. I'm beginning to think your problem is you don't understand basic ontology. 

I understand what you're saying but the part you are missing is that they have to come up with a plan first. You cannot talk about something that you have no plan for first. I'm sorry but that is not how it works. What they have said already was a good faith statement that they hear us and are in fact planning now. Then they will give details or as you say "Direct" statements. No company that is smart jumps the gun before they have planned it through first. Patience is the order of the day and those that lack it will have your mindset, no offense. Others like me, will give BioWare a period of time to come through on what we are asking them for. Some people think things should come when they want them, but that is not how the world works. Anyone with experience in this I think would know that. Again, no offense.

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 18 mars 2012 - 08:05 .

[DigitalMaster37]

Turtlicious wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Stop derailing the topic. If you have nothing to say on the topic then let it go, troll some other thread.

Our conversation was on the front page as well. Your topic isn't anymore important then...

Ok, I'll stop.

If you feel that way, then don't respond in this thread, go post in another. that's logical right? or am I giving you too much credit?

So that's the civility you were talking about. I get it now. 

Exactly, I totally told him a thing or two very respectfully. That is in fact a good example of what I am talking about. I never said "YOU IDIOT, get OUTTA MAH THREAD" 
I basically said, I am giving you credit for being civil and logical, was I wrong for doing that?"


Can't get more civil than that, especially when someone is trolling. 

She was being respectful, honestly, she was. I think more people need to sack up and apologize when they are wrong.

I apoligize, I should've been more careful with the assuming you to be a guy. My apologies.

[jb1983]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...



I understand what you're saying but the part you are missing is that they have to come up with a plan first. You cannot talk about something that you have no plan for first. I'm sorry but that is not how it works. What they have said already was a good faith statement that they hear us and are in fact planning now. Then they will give details or as you say "Direct" statements. No company that is smart jumps the gun before they have planned it through first. Patience is the order of the day and those that lack it will have your mindset, no offense. Others like me, will give BioWare a period of time to come through on what we are asking them for. Some people think things should come when they want them, but that is not how the world works. Anyone with experience in this I think would know that. Again, no offense.

This goes back to my question, "Cripes, can you read?" Offense. 

I've stated very consistently that if they are planning on doing ending DLC, then they need to just say, "Hey, we're planning on doing it." If they're still debating it at this point, on if they should or not, then they've already lost their way as a company, thus justifying the many people who want to abandon them. 

I don't expect a DLC out in a few weeks. God, I hope that's not the case. I want them to take their time on it. My point, however, is that by now they should have decided on if they're going to do one or not. Not what it will be, not the plan, but just a general, "Yeah, we're going to do this." 

And maybe they should be direct and say, "We're currently talking amongst on ourselves on if we should change the endings. It's an ongoing debate in our offices" or something to that effect. In my view, Hudson already said this, but not all the fans took it that way. Is that the fault of the fans? No. It's the fault of Hudson for not being more direct. So be more direct.

And I do have experience in this, that's why I'm saying it. I also have experience in reading. I'm glad you're reading this, because it means you're gaining in experience too.

This has been my point the entire time. How can you not see this? 

Modifié par jb1983, 18 mars 2012 - 08:14 .

[Lebrine]

Bioware forgot we are people too....
They lied to us about ME3 knowing how badly it was wanted, they treated us like cash cows lol

[Ricvenart]

Bioware just lost thier arguement to be treated with more respect.

"The fans weren't giving BioWare the benefit of the doubt; no, they took the hacked story synopsis as the real script." - Final Hours App.

Excellent PR to talk about your fans that way, when they not only paid for the game but go on to pay for a behind the scenes app.

Thought they liked Speculation not sweeping generalizations that are insulting.

Edit: Just like to note it's not the "fans" fault the synopsis was leaked, nor is it thier fault to read it or thier fault on how they interpet it. Seriously livid again now after reading this. Though proves my point that Bioware forgets that thier "fans" are people too.

Modifié par Ricvenart, 18 mars 2012 - 08:26 .

[Reptilian Rob]

jb1983 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

Brahlis wrote...

They're people that just **** on my chest.

I expect them to clean it up.

Why? That sounds hawt. That's the LI scen I  wanted.

That statement contained so much win...

"Garrus, I want you..."

"Yeah Shepard?"

"Take a dump on my chest Garrus."

":sick:"

There's always that special spot on the Citadel. 

Man this sex scene would be hot as hell. 

Steaming hot. 

Maybe Shep could take Garrus to Cleveland. 

[ValendianKnight]

Yup, they are people that now have my $80. And guess what? When I fail at MY job, I get no breaks, so why should I give them a break?

[jb1983]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

Brahlis wrote...

They're people that just **** on my chest.

I expect them to clean it up.

Why? That sounds hawt. That's the LI scen I  wanted.

That statement contained so much win...

"Garrus, I want you..."

"Yeah Shepard?"

"Take a dump on my chest Garrus."

":sick:"

There's always that special spot on the Citadel. 

Man this sex scene would be hot as hell. 

Steaming hot. 

Maybe Shep could take Garrus to Cleveland. 

This is one scene that would need "Take My Breath Away" playing in the background. 

[ThePasserby]

Oh no, I'm very aware that Bioware are people. And as people, they are fully capable of lying to their fans about what the game is about; of being egoistic about their "artistic vision"; and most of all, digging in their heels in the face of criticism.

I have absolutely no faith that they will do a decent job of rectifying the ending. All I can do, as a consumer, is to promise them that I won't give them anymore money, and will spread by word of mouth what I think of their products.

People make mistakes, you say? Let's hear them own up to them first.

[CRISIS1717]

Stop defending a company this is the real world. EA and Bioware want you to buy their game and their content, they want your money, they do not care about you.

Like I said in another topic, I'm sure the employees of Bioware are kind people but that doesn't defend bad practices.

If you have a problem with a company it is your duty as a sensible consumer to contest the issue.

[TyDurden13]

Soylent Green is people too.

[NamelessJT]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

I swear that sometimes people can be so twisted by what they want that they forget to be human. 

Soylent Green is PEOPLE!

.... hopefully that joke wasn't already used in the last 10 pages.

Bioware is a company with whom people are employed in.  Without worrying about the more extreme fringe, the majority of people who are here strictly for this Mass Effect 3 fiasco are keeping it "clean".  Those that are getting out of hand are being handled by the moderators, so trying to appeal to them is just wasted breath.

Personally, I appreciate the thought of this post and the details contained.  That shows passion and initiative - and while my opinion doesn't matter, I give you a thumbs up internet stranger! 

[NamelessJT]

TyDurden13 wrote...

Soylent Green is people too.

Haha!  TyDurden13 beat me by FIVE minutes!  

[tenojitsu]

In the corporate world, almost no decisions are made in two weeks. It all comes down to the bottom line. If EA/bioware decide that doing the right thing will help their bottom line in the long run, they'll release ending dlc (which I think it will make them more money in the long run). We have to show a little more atience, but still be firm in our demands

[Sharn01]

Dont fool yourself, the moment people quiet down about the ending is the moment bioware attempts to sweep it under a rug and forget about it.

Bioware is not people either, its a company, it has people who work for it, and I am sure many of them are good people, but its still a company, one that has shown us in the past its more concerned with profit then its fans desires. Blame EA if you want for that happening, but thats the way it is.

[Vertrucio]

I respect the people behind the good decisions at Bioware. After all, 99% of the game is great, wonderful even.

But there are people controlling the people that I respect, making them do stuff like this. The only way to make sure the people we really respect get the leeway to do things right is to make sure the investors and execs behind them know that their bottom line will be affected by stupid decisions like these endings.

Thus, if they want to make money off further DLC sales, fix the ending for free so that I have a setting that I'm still invested enough in to pay for.

Thankfully, with the way DLC works, this argument works slightly better than in most other cases. But how much it will we'll have to see.

There's plenty of cases where people get upset over business decisions in games, threaten a boycott, and almost every one who said they wouldn't buy ends up buying anyway. One look at the Boycott MW2 steam group's list of games and you'll see many people are actually pretty fickle, and the people behind these bad decisions knows it.

But, with DLC, which already has a limited audience, you want to make sure that audience is invested in the game. Since the ending pretty much destroys player investment in the game, it might affect sales.

So, we'll see how this plays out.

Modifié par Vertrucio, 18 mars 2012 - 09:30 .

[Wintermaulz]

What u talkin about Wilis?
They all mascarade as humans, but secretly, they are Bio drones






(sarcasm)

Modifié par Wintermaulz, 18 mars 2012 - 09:30 .

[lltoon]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...


BioWare just made a game that they love and have poured a ton of their life and time into. sacrifices and so on, so on.

I doubt you would get lazy doing the thing you love. Doing something you love required effort and dedication, both of which are glaringly absent in the game.

Bioware are people, okay I can roll with that. But I don't tolerate lazy people who do lazy work in real life, so the same should apply to Bioware.

Modifié par lltoon, 18 mars 2012 - 09:48 .

[Bigdoser]

lltoon wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...


BioWare just made a game that they love and have poured a ton of their life and time into. sacrifices and so on, so on.

I doubt you would get lazy doing the thing you love. Doing something you love required effort and dedication, both of which are glaringly absent in the game.

Bioware are people, okay I can roll with that. But I don't tolerate lazy people who do lazy work in real life, so the same should apply to Bioware.

When ever I see that image I die a little inside. 

[jb1983]

Bigdoser wrote...

lltoon wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...


BioWare just made a game that they love and have poured a ton of their life and time into. sacrifices and so on, so on.

I doubt you would get lazy doing the thing you love. Doing something you love required effort and dedication, both of which are glaringly absent in the game.

Bioware are people, okay I can roll with that. But I don't tolerate lazy people who do lazy work in real life, so the same should apply to Bioware.

When ever I see that image I die a little inside. 

This makes me hurt inside.