263 réponses à ce sujet

[sadako]

Dear OP.
Actually sometimes I forget that the greatest anarchists and dictators in this world are people too. Man, I am so horrible.

[garf]

MattFini wrote...

The game has been out for almost two weeks. We have to remember it hasn't been that long yet.

Is it even customary for a compnay to announce specific DLC this early in a game's release?

Anyway, I am encouraged by what BioWare has said so far. Step in the right direction and hopefully they'll keep moving forward to give us what we want.

Three words for you 'same day DLC'

[Bigdoser]

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...


No, its deeper than that, we have arrived at that due to bad experiences. Corporations in America automatically get a bad rap for historical examples. 

The truth is there is a relationship. If there wasn't, none of us would be here right now discussing this. That is truly all the facts I need, but I'll go one step further. Yes the foundation of the relationship is money, but then there is the product. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. Heck the same goes for friends and romantic relationships. 

Just let me know how long a wife stays a wife, when she stops taking care of her husband and vice versa. 

Let me know how long a friendship last when they stop being there for each other. 

Relationships are simple connections through something that is shared in common and through mutual exchanges to some degree or another. We all have a relationship with BioWare or none of us wouldn't be threatening divorce right now. 

This is not a marriage or a friendship. We are here right now because we share an affinity for the same video game series.

Last I checked, you don't have to pay someone 60 dollars to be their friend, at least not in my experience.

The relationship is this: Bioware keeps making good games, and I will keep buying them. We'll keep posting on their forums because we like to talk to people who like the game, and a lot of our real life friends don't care/know about this series.

It's not any deeper than that.

Yup I agree I personally see the feedback threads as a way to burn us out they have released two games and people loved them the internet is ablaze over the endings. The whole of the forum and internet is plasted with topics why the endings are not good. They should KNOW what we like already. You can call me an ass if you think I am being cold but thats just what I think. 

I consider the movement a victory as soon as bioware comes out and say they are going to work on an ending DLC.

[Chronor]

@OP

I understand and respect where you are coming from, but besides the conventional business aspect of all this, have you considered that video game industry is not really a conventional business?

Unlike brick & mortar stores where a dissatisfied customer can return a product, this cannot easily be done with video games, especially PC and digital downloads. There's really no refund & we're stuck. Console gamers at least have the luxury of returning their copies for in-store credit & such.

Having said that, what outlet do we gamers have for our dissatisfaction? Can you honestly say that some of us are so letdown that we do/should not have the justification to ever want to patronize BW anymore?

Every business is made of people. So are the consumers. There's no need to consider the people involved in BW/EA because they have inherently been considered.

In any kind of business, there's a two-way street here, and one cannot survive without the other. BW cannot survive (and I am talking about future business here because they've already made money on the sold games) by alienating their fans. With the internets, word-of-mouth advertising is a powerful tool. On the other hand, the consumers (us) can just go elsewhere.

BW/EA made a mistake (at least I hope so). In either case, they need to be transparent about this situation because the damage is already done. Prolonging any information as to what actions they may take will only widen that distrust/negativity. As someone else already said, the smart PR thing to do is let us know whether a new ending is in the works or not. Unfortunately, whatever they do, it will take a long while to rebuild the trust that was lovingly and willingly given for their games. Everyone here should be able to relate when it comes to trust issues (e.g. the lack thereof).

[Abirn]

I don't care what the supreme court has said... Corporations are NOT people!

[Elite Midget]

They may be people but in recent years they've lost sight on what made them great. DA2, SWTOR, and now the rushed ME3. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Fool me thrice and there's hell to pay.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 18 mars 2012 - 06:03 .

[DaosX]

garf wrote...

MattFini wrote...

The game has been out for almost two weeks. We have to remember it hasn't been that long yet.

Is it even customary for a compnay to announce specific DLC this early in a game's release?

Anyway, I am encouraged by what BioWare has said so far. Step in the right direction and hopefully they'll keep moving forward to give us what we want.

Three words for you 'same day DLC'

Isn't "same day DLC" technically 5 words due to the acronym?

[DigitalMaster37]

sadako wrote...

Dear OP.
Actually sometimes I forget that the greatest anarchists and dictators in this world are people too. Man, I am so horrible.

I never called you horrible if you may have forgotten that they are human. In the end we don't know the pressures, situations, factors facing some the decisions that are made that effect us, naturally we just respond. But history proves that people who can think past their own desires are indeed the world changers. Those that can't only add to the negativity. 

That's all I'm saying. 

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 18 mars 2012 - 06:05 .

[DaosX]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

sadako wrote...

Dear OP.
Actually sometimes I forget that the greatest anarchists and dictators in this world are people too. Man, I am so horrible.

I never called you horrible if you may have forgotten. In the end we don't know the pressures, situations, factors facing some the decisions that are made that effect us, naturally we just respond. But history proves that people who can think past their own desires are indeed the world changers. Those that can't only add to the negativity. 

That's all I'm saying. 

You never said he was horrible. He was saying that he was horrible (for using dictators as an analogy)

[cyrrant]

atghunter wrote...

So how do you resolve empathy for overworked and disappointed employees vs. a company you feel delivered an inferior/defective product? Simple. You can do both. Feel empathy for the workers, but continue to demand accountability from the corporation. As I’ve mentioned previously, at this point, this isn’t a struggle with the writers. And in the end, to be blunt, those hard-working, personable emplotees will do what the corporate entity ultimately decides. If EA instructs the writers and developers to write an ending with pink ponies and chocolate bars falling from the sky, that’s what will happen.

Just remember the bottom line is, well, the bottom line for EA. Please continue to remain civil and express your views (no matter which side of this debate you favor). Since I can’t see the other side of the chessboard, no prognostications on where the game stands, but it is pretty clear the pieces are moving.

The people behind Bioware are human, and it's okay to empathize with their situation. However, the second you let it dull your call for an ending fix is the second they start winning the PR war and we take a step back.

Hold the Line

Modifié par cyrrant, 18 mars 2012 - 06:09 .

[Computron2000]

Now i feel so bad for not accepting a monitor because it has a few dead pixels. The salesguy was human too. He must have been under so much pressure because of how terrible and unreasonable i was.

[DigitalMaster37]

Computron2000 wrote...

Now i feel so bad for not accepting a monitor because it has a few dead pixels. The salesguy was human too. He must have been under so much pressure because of how terrible and unreasonable i was.

Bad analogy is bad.

[Bigdoser]

"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the
endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into
account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a
lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game
endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C."


Casey Hudson on Mass effect 3

Hard to feel bad for them when they out right lie to you. 

Modifié par Bigdoser, 18 mars 2012 - 06:15 .

[LadyofRivendell]

Thank you, TC! I wish more people thought like this. BW probably already feels pretty bad, I know I would if I poured my heart and hard work into something only to have people constantly insulting it. It's not like they WANTED to anger all of their fanbase... At least, I don't think they did.

[avmf8]

I will accept they are people just as I accept that people with down syndrome are people.

[Computron2000]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Now i feel so bad for not accepting a monitor because it has a few dead pixels. The salesguy was human too. He must have been under so much pressure because of how terrible and unreasonable i was.

Bad analogy is bad.

Silly original reasoning is silly

[jb1983]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Thank you, TC! I wish more people thought like this. BW probably already feels pretty bad, I know I would if I poured my heart and hard work into something only to have people constantly insulting it. It's not like they WANTED to anger all of their fanbase... At least, I don't think they did.

There is a sadist in everyone of us to a degree...

Why does everyone keep bringing up the whole, "But they poured their heart and hard work into this" card? Hard work means nothing if it results in a bad product. I didn't give them my money because they worked hard, I gave them my money because I expected their hardwork to end in a great product. That's how businesses work...

[Bigdoser]

jb1983 wrote...

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Thank you, TC! I wish more people thought like this. BW probably already feels pretty bad, I know I would if I poured my heart and hard work into something only to have people constantly insulting it. It's not like they WANTED to anger all of their fanbase... At least, I don't think they did.

There is a sadist in everyone of us to a degree...

Why does everyone keep bringing up the whole, "But they poured their heart and hard work into this" card? Hard work means nothing if it results in a bad product. I didn't give them my money because they worked hard, I gave them my money because I expected their hardwork to end in a great product. That's how businesses work...

I know if people keep that line of thinking bioware can keep doing these kind of things and get away with it *looks at da2*. EVE online tried it the players sure showed them. 

edit:I think people on this forum really need to read that PR topic 

Modifié par Bigdoser, 18 mars 2012 - 06:21 .

[cubie_hole7]

To OP, I didn't forget they were people. I specifically remember they are people every time I think about how much money I've spent on the Mass Effect series.

[DigitalMaster37]

jb1983 wrote...

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Thank you, TC! I wish more people thought like this. BW probably already feels pretty bad, I know I would if I poured my heart and hard work into something only to have people constantly insulting it. It's not like they WANTED to anger all of their fanbase... At least, I don't think they did.

There is a sadist in everyone of us to a degree...

Why does everyone keep bringing up the whole, "But they poured their heart and hard work into this" card? Hard work means nothing if it results in a bad product. I didn't give them my money because they worked hard, I gave them my money because I expected their hardwork to end in a great product. That's how businesses work...

The result isn't a bad product. It's a bad ending, yet that is subjective at best. Some people liked it, we cannot refute that. 

So I can also ask you "why do you keep bringing up the alternative?"

Most people on both sides of the issue think the overall product was great not good. So where does your conclusions come from? if you believe it was a bad product, then you are a minority on this issue.

[Maria Caliban]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

I swear that sometimes people can be so twisted by what they want that they forget to be human. 

Being insensitive is just as human as being sensitive.

I'd suggest 'twisted by what they want' is a uniquely human situation.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 18 mars 2012 - 06:22 .

[DigitalMaster37]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

I swear that sometimes people can be so twisted by what they want that they forget to be human. 

Being insensitive is just as human as being sensitive.

Right but the truth comes out when we put the shoe on your own foot. Would you be okay with millions of people coming at you insensitively?

That is the humanity piece I am speaking of. I am trying to appeal to the unclouded and positive portion of our humanity not the negative side. I understand that there is two sides to the humanity coin. 

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 18 mars 2012 - 06:23 .

[Demon Velsper]

Far more common is that people forget that Bioware is a corporation, not your bestest friend.

[jb1983]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

jb1983 wrote...

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Thank you, TC! I wish more people thought like this. BW probably already feels pretty bad, I know I would if I poured my heart and hard work into something only to have people constantly insulting it. It's not like they WANTED to anger all of their fanbase... At least, I don't think they did.

There is a sadist in everyone of us to a degree...

Why does everyone keep bringing up the whole, "But they poured their heart and hard work into this" card? Hard work means nothing if it results in a bad product. I didn't give them my money because they worked hard, I gave them my money because I expected their hardwork to end in a great product. That's how businesses work...

The result isn't a bad product. It's a bad ending, yet that is subjective at best. Some people liked it, we cannot refute that. 

So I can also ask you "why do you keep bringing up the alternative?"

Most people on both sides of the issue think the overall product was great not good. So where does your conclusions come from? if you believe it was a bad product, then you are a minority on this issue.

If an essential part of a product doesn't function, then it's a bad product. If your luxury vehicle lacks tires, it's a bad product. If your incredible computer lacks a screen, it's a bad product. If novel lacks a conclusion, it's a bad product. 

So yes, it was a bad product. And the ending issue isn't subjective. When 98% of your fans on a poll say they hate the endings, and only 2% want to keep them like they are, then it's objectively bad. 

The game itself was fantastic. The ending was a failure. The ending is essential to the product. Thus it's a bad product. 

A is to B and B is to C. A, therefore C. 

[Bigdoser]

Demon Velsper wrote...

Far more common is that people forget that Bioware is a corporation, not your bestest friend.

Yup more people need to realise this.