254 réponses à ce sujet

[Legendaryred]

stevesyanks17hotmail.com wrote...

I agree OP

Huh, i remember you, you were posting immflamatory comments yesterday in other threads and you been generally bashing people who want to change the endings these past days.

[xsdob]

effortname wrote...

Cool-headed rational argumentation has never achieved anything in the history of getting things done. People getting all up in flames over random things usually does.

And that thing is usually called a riot or a lynch mob, depending on whose on what end of that anger.

[bchesson]

Even if you have 500 or 1000 nutjobs posting inflamatory posts it's still a small percentage of the Bioware community as a whole. Painting all people who are dissatisfied with the ending with such a broad stroke is equally unfair.

As far as people complaining I subscribe to the good old saying "Only the squeaky wheel gets the grease". Like it or not it's a time honored tactic that gets results.

[effortname]

Sundance31us wrote...

effortname wrote...
Cool-headed rational argumentation has never achieved anything in the history of getting things done. People getting all up in flames over random things usually does.

Bull****. When they canceled Farscape we (the fans) were able to get the Scifi channel to reverse their decision through calm courtesy protests.

We were advised by inside sources that if we allowed things to get out of hand and nasty we would lose.

We sent crackers to the offices of the network executives, among other things. It's no different than people mailing Bioware a book on basic story writing.

[Dragoonlordz]

majormajormmajor wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Feel free to go find such a post if you think there is one where I have attacked or used vitriol agsint another poster on this issue. I think you'll be gone a very long time searching.

Both of you have spread the lie that people who dislike the endings have conducted themselves with anything but restraint, when it is yours and yours alone that has resorted to character assasination, ad hominen attacks and the other bevy of tricks that is the preserve of the cur.

The scurrilous message in your opening post says it all.

Funny because you just described yourself then about how your are currently responding to me. It is not a lie if many have done so even if you close your eyes and pretend such never happened the only lying is to yourself about what people have done on the side you proclaim to be on.

[majormajormmajor]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Feel free to go find such a post if you think there is one where I have attacked or used vitriol against another poster on this issue. I think you'll be gone a very long time searching.

Legendaryred wrote...

Huh,
i remember you, you were posting immflamatory comments yesterday in
other threads and you been generally bashing people who want to change
the endings these past days.

DING DING DING DING DING we have a hit

Or do you suppose you aren't notorious for your atrocious behaviour, that people cannot remember?  Everyone remembers.

[Gulkin]

oh oh oh nice job bioware.

[Dragoonlordz]

bchesson wrote...

Even if you have 500 or 1000 nutjobs posting inflamatory posts it's still a small percentage of the Bioware community as a whole. Painting all people who are dissatisfied with the ending with such a broad stroke is equally unfair.

As far as people complaining I subscribe to the good old saying "Only the squeaky wheel gets the grease". Like it or not it's a time honored tactic that gets results.

I did not say "all", I said a lot on here on the issues I mentioned.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Customers have the right to be as angry as they want... especially when it comes to a company of the pedegree of Bioware.

The ending is below-par to that of even the rest of the game from a plot/mission structure perspective (conflict/resolution/epilogue). Bioware just dropped the ball.. there's really no excuse that works... they just need to fix it... and they owe it to themselves to make that happen.

[effortname]

xsdob wrote...

effortname wrote...

Cool-headed rational argumentation has never achieved anything in the history of getting things done. People getting all up in flames over random things usually does.

And that thing is usually called a riot or a lynch mob, depending on whose on what end of that anger.

Things get done.

[Dragoonlordz]

majormajormmajor wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Feel free to go find such a post if you think there is one where I have attacked or used vitriol against another poster on this issue. I think you'll be gone a very long time searching.

Legendaryred wrote...

Huh,
i remember you, you were posting immflamatory comments yesterday in
other threads and you been generally bashing people who want to change
the endings these past days.

DING DING DING DING DING we have a hit

Or do you suppose you aren't notorious for your atrocious behaviour, that people cannot remember?  Everyone remembers.

Way to make yourself look so silly without my help, she was talking to and about someone else in her post.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 mars 2012 - 05:48 .

[xxskyshadowxx]

commonperson wrote...

I have to say I agree. I find this "hold the line" thing kind of distrubing. An writer sits down to create a piece of work and pours their soul in to it. They create something they feel is powerful and moving and resolves the story they have been telling. Then just because a vocal group of individuals don't like it they are expected to change their story. That's akin to going back and changing Lord of the Rings to a slap happy road trip. This kind of loops back to an "ownership" argument regarding art. Art for the viewer versus Art for art's sake. Frankly I'm of the opinion the artist creates the work for themselves, they put it out there for people to take from it what they will. Mass Effect 3 was a poigniont story with a powerful conclusion. It's like in Serenity, no one wanted Wash to die. But we needed him to die, we needed to be reminded that the universe isn't shiny and things don't always turn out the way we hope.

I don't disagree with your sentiment, but I do disagree with your analogy, First of all....this "game is art thing," people keep falling back on is really beginning to bother me a bit. Mass Effect 3 has art, yes, but it is a mass market product being sold to consumers. If it was on display in boothes somewhere where people pay a cover charge and then play it while sipping wine and eating finger foods, then yes...no one should be complaining.

If we were to accurately compare the ending in Serenity to the ending in ME3, then all of Mal's crew abandons him just as he shows up to load the disc and are long gone by the end of the fight. Two crew members stayed behind to try to bottle-neck the Reavers and both got shot or stabbed...or both, maybe one died. Mal doesn't fight the bounty hunter, instead a glowy child version of River is standing there and she tells him he cannot upload the disc, the only way to get the word out about the Reapers and stop the Alliance from pulling that kind of crap again again is to push either the red button (destroy the Reavers), the blue button (reform the Reavers) or the Green Button (Breed with the Reavers). Mal doesn't question it at all even though it makes no sense at all and goes against his very character. The player chooses, and Mal pushes a button. Mal, the galaxy and everyone in it is destroyed but Serenity manages to survive and crash lands on the World of Two Moons from ElfQuest. Wash stumbles out of the ship and Zoe follows, naked, and hugs him as they look up at the moons. Innara who was in the hallway second ago, somehow is on the crashed ship as well and walks off to look around. Really good music plays the whole time.

Nah...The Browncoats wouldn't question that ending...at all. Oh wait...they don't have to because Joss Wheaton understands his own lore and knows how to end a story even if he wasn't even ready to end it. Bioware shoulda hired him for ME3.

What makes the ending worse, is that it is in contradiction to the many PR claims as to what it was supposed to be made by Bioware. Here's a link to a forum post someone took the time to make illustrating all of the claims, if you're curious: http://social.biowar.../index/10056886

I'd have to look around for the posts, but the writers have admitted to putting together the ending write at the end of developement and they didnt know where to go with it. What they should have done, is just sat back and looked at the story that they had told so far. there is nothing wrong with Shepard dying, and people need to stop accusing the folks asking for a different ending of asking for a "Save Shepard" scenario. Some are, but most aren't. Shepard sacrificing his/herself is epic....Shepard sacrificing his/herself to complete the horrific act of genocide that the Reapers started....all for the sake of an "artsy-creative" (read "Cliched-contrived) ending is not okay. fans who have followed the lore since day one have a right to complain. Fans who haven't or simply don't care have a right not to care.

[Computron2000]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
Just cool your heads, calm down and be patient, reasonable and respectful all of which of late is far from the case for many.

This is pretty much the only time you will be taken seriously. If you shut up for a month, no one cares about you because the sales of the product is no longer in its initial stages, meaning a majority of those who will buy have bought. Cold sales to those not interested will not bring in much revenue so your call for patience (for how long exactly? A month? 2? A year?) is basically telling those who do not like the ending to gtfo

[majormajormmajor]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Funny because you just described yourself then about how your are currently responding to me. It is not a lie if many have done so even if you close your eyes and pretend such never happened the only lying is to yourself about what people have done on the side you proclaim to be on.

The vast majority of them have been responding with a lot more restraint than I would have used. Any outliers is a negative reprecussion of the high-handed way your bunch has been treating them. And that is your tactic- to goad them into irrationality so your aspersions on their character have merit.

Supporters of the ending have consistently pushed the fiction that both sides are at fault. This is a blatant untruth. Your side annointed this current debacle by commencing the use of such tactics, it is plain for anyone to see. 

[FOX216BC]

Do not forget not everyone finished the game at the same time.
My reaction to the ending was anger, 5 minutes later i just had an empty feeling.
Than i went for a walk, i calmed down.
Still didn't liked the ending, but at least i hit the forum whit a clear mind.
I do understand the fans their outrage, Bioware did an exellent job at making an emotional game.
So i'm not surprised that people react badly to this ending.
I respect bioware, and adress them with my problem about the ending in a reasonable way.

But i will not give in to people who treat big profit making companies as saints.
Some go even as far at getting angry to the fans that didn't liked the ending.
They even say we don't have the right to complain.
Every consumer has the right to complain about his product.

Oh and "hold the line" shows how much we care about the ME trilogy
Better to HOLD THE LINE than to give up on the franchise and throw it away like any other mediocre game we've played in the past.

So with all my love for commander shepard i will continue to HOLD THE LINE!!![

Modifié par FOX216BC, 18 mars 2012 - 05:58 .

[archanesoldier]

commonperson wrote...

I have to say I agree. I find this "hold the line" thing kind of distrubing. An writer sits down to create a piece of work and pours their soul in to it. They create something they feel is powerful and moving and resolves the story they have been telling. Then just because a vocal group of individuals don't like it they are expected to change their story. That's akin to going back and changing Lord of the Rings to a slap happy road trip. This kind of loops back to an "ownership" argument regarding art. Art for the viewer versus Art for art's sake. Frankly I'm of the opinion the artist creates the work for themselves, they put it out there for people to take from it what they will. Mass Effect 3 was a poigniont story with a powerful conclusion. It's like in Serenity, no one wanted Wash to die. But we needed him to die, we needed to be reminded that the universe isn't shiny and things don't always turn out the way we hope.

I ask you then who actually owns the story that bioware created? fore it is not the fans, and it is not the artists at Bioware, it is instead the corporate suits at EA.  Becuause some of you assume that the disjointed ending was always intended, that Bioware controls creative licence.  I do not belive that Bioware created an ending that feels so rushed and disjointed, becuase they wanted to created "Lots of Specualtion".  Instead I think That EA, becuase March 31st was the end of their fiscal year forced Bioware to release a game that did not have a complete ending, so that EA would not lose money. 

I do not want or need an ending that is a "disney ending" instead I want an ending that actually makes logical sense within the context of the story (I.E get rid of the normandy crash scence it makes no sense).  What I do not want is nehelistic/calvinistic ending that implies that all organic life is predetermined to destroy itself, so the only solution to is to create anarchy on a galactic scale whiich will lead to organic lifes destruction at least partially, or forcibly make every organic being a cyborg without their consent. And I definitely do not one indiviual deciding for the rest of all organic life what the future will hold, for that is depressing and bleak.  If people think that the irony to the idea that all organic life has no free will is a good ending to a story that was all about free will and choice, I wonder do they even believe they have choice or are you predetermined to do what you are doing right now.

And for the people that think that hurray we detroyed the Reapers, according to the space god unless you frocibly make everyone a hybrid. Organic life will eventaully be the creator of its own destruction.  This is a no win stituation where no matter what the players chose, all organic life either destroys itself or must give up and become synsthetic.  These are the problems I have with the ending NOT that it is not all parites and blue babies

[Dragoonlordz]

Computron2000 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
Just cool your heads, calm down and be patient, reasonable and respectful all of which of late is far from the case for many.

This is pretty much the only time you will be taken seriously. If you shut up for a month, no one cares about you because the sales of the product is no longer in its initial stages, meaning a majority of those who will buy have bought. Cold sales to those not interested will not bring in much revenue so your call for patience (for how long exactly? A month? 2? A year?) is basically telling those who do not like the ending to gtfo

Not saying you have to go away or keep it quiet, I am saying how your express what you want and why you want it is fine if keep it respectable and reasonable and it's fine to keep doing so in that manner for as long as you feel the need, patience does not mean absence.

[Meltemph]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

bchesson wrote...

Even if you have 500 or 1000 nutjobs posting inflamatory posts it's still a small percentage of the Bioware community as a whole. Painting all people who are dissatisfied with the ending with such a broad stroke is equally unfair.

As far as people complaining I subscribe to the good old saying "Only the squeaky wheel gets the grease". Like it or not it's a time honored tactic that gets results.

I did not say "all", I said a lot on here on the issues I mentioned.

It is the internet, here you're going to get crazies no matter what... The only reason you see more people that dislike the ending, being "disrespectful" is because the majority here do not like the ending.  However, you are acting like it is hard to find a lot of other people who liked the endings being condecending/insulting.  Seems like you routinely only pickout the groups you disagree with.  IMO, Dragon you have had a pattern to always think the people that dont think like you, are the "problem".  Sure you may not be insulting, but I'd say you routinely come across as condecending.

Modifié par Meltemph, 18 mars 2012 - 05:54 .

[AwesomeDudex64]

 You do realize every group has its extremists, right? They are the minority to our movement and I'd appreciate it if people didn't just write us off as an angry mob.

[Abirn]

xsdob wrote...

effortname wrote...

Cool-headed rational argumentation has never achieved anything in the history of getting things done. People getting all up in flames over random things usually does.

And that thing is usually called a riot or a lynch mob, depending on whose on what end of that anger.

And the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is nothing more than which side you support. 

[Computron2000]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
Just cool your heads, calm down and be patient, reasonable and respectful all of which of late is far from the case for many.

This is pretty much the only time you will be taken seriously. If you shut up for a month, no one cares about you because the sales of the product is no longer in its initial stages, meaning a majority of those who will buy have bought. Cold sales to those not interested will not bring in much revenue so your call for patience (for how long exactly? A month? 2? A year?) is basically telling those who do not like the ending to gtfo

Not saying you have to go away or keep it quiet, I am saying how your express what you want and why you want it is fine if keep it respectable and reasonable and it's fine to keep doing so in that manner for as long as you feel the need, patience does not mean absence.

In which case who defines "respectable" and "reasonable"? You? Me? Bioware? 

Since you have no problems with the ending as you have said "enjoy the game like i have", then anything other than "enjoying the game" would thus be "unreasonable" and we would all fall afoul of your measuring standards

[Dragoonlordz]

AwesomeDudex64 wrote...

 You do realize every group has its extremists, right? They are the minority to our movement and I'd appreciate it if people didn't just write us off as an angry mob.

You seem to be under the wrong impression I am singling out the endings group. I mentioned many groups in the second paragraph and it is a combination of all the groups not just yours. The detriment caused by accumulation of many issues about how the so called 'fans' have reacted over time with regards to all of those issues leading me to the aspect I mentioned in the third paragraph.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 mars 2012 - 06:01 .

[Sundance31us]

effortname wrote...
We sent crackers to the offices of the network executives, among other things. It's no different than people mailing Bioware a book on basic story writing.

LOL yes, but we were still courteous about it.

If I remember right the only updates we received were unofficial ones from Froony and those were few and far between. At least Bioware maintains direct contact with us.

[Shallyah]

I agree completely with the OP. Those who are bashing irrationally and insulting Bioware are the small % that make us all look bad, and be labelled as "entitled whiners". You do not do us a favor by taking that attitude, even if you think you are contributing.

Please, be polite, especially with the company that has brought these awesome games to you. They may have made a mistake, but start counting how many hours of awesome they've brought ot you. Let's give them some credit and ask for the changes we wish with the education that we've been given.

[HenchxNarf]

I agree op. I'm just so freaking tired of being trolled and not being able to write anything on the game in a positive light. I want our boards back. I want to be able to talk about the game without the rabid fanboys comping at the bit.

However, don't try and reason with them. They'll likely not understand where you're coming from since they're all set in their ways. But IA, they have no right to tell Bioware what to do with anything.