254 réponses à ce sujet

[Auralius Carolus]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Gandhi and MLK achieved their goals through a calculated means of mass gatherings, boycotting, and riling up restless behaviors. Saying they did so by "rational argumentation" is incredibly inaccurate.

Because rational argumentation had been ignored, and these people realized that results could still be secured without resorting to extremes. The only reason they are worth mentioning is that they secured impressive results under difficult circumstances, far beyond those which we face, without resorting to extreme measures, which all of them- Christ, Gandhi, and MLK had the following and influence to perpetuate.

Seeing as we are not discussing an issue which surrounds our very existance and could result in our mortal harm, I'd say can afford a little civility.

[wolf465]

So...what about the people defending the endings that are outright attacking the ones who want the dlc? Shouldn't they show some respect too.

[MaYtriX]

daisekihan wrote...

commonperson wrote...

I have to say I agree. I find this "hold the line" thing kind of distrubing. An writer sits down to create a piece of work and pours their soul in to it. They create something they feel is powerful and moving and resolves the story they have been telling. Then just because a vocal group of individuals don't like it they are expected to change their story. That's akin to going back and changing Lord of the Rings to a slap happy road trip. This kind of loops back to an "ownership" argument regarding art. Art for the viewer versus Art for art's sake. Frankly I'm of the opinion the artist creates the work for themselves, they put it out there for people to take from it what they will. Mass Effect 3 was a poigniont story with a powerful conclusion. It's like in Serenity, no one wanted Wash to die. But we needed him to die, we needed to be reminded that the universe isn't shiny and things don't always turn out the way we hope.

My God, do you make a hobby of repeating the same tired arguments that have nothing to do with what we're actually objecting to? We don't mind Shepard dying or the ending not being sunshine and roses, we just want it to make sense --- as in, why did the Normandy leave the battle and zip off into hyperspace? Also, as it stands, you're comparison isn't quite accurate, because in ME everyone (except perhaps those on the Normandy) is going to die of starvation due to lack of resources with a population that depends on the relays, and even if some places make it, Earth is definitely screwed due half of it being reduced to firey rubble while its population triples.

We want to CHOOSE our ending. That's the whole point of the mass effect series, isn't it?
Not "16" slightly different endings, all with the same major results.

[kaisterbahn]

MaYtriX wrote...

kaisterbahn wrote...

Go **** yourself.

Tell me, what exactly are you trying to achieve? You're just aggrivating the problem more, and you are one of the few who make the movement seem vulgar and childish.

Enlightenment, friend.

[Eivuwan]

Also you make it sound as though Bioware is doing us a favor by making these games. They are making them because we're paying for them. Consumers have a right to boycott products they don't like and tell others about how bad a product is. Bioware has spent so much time honing their skills to make rpgs. Do you really think that they can just switch to FPS and make equal amounts of money?

[effortname]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Gandhi and MLK achieved their goals through a calculated means of mass gatherings, boycotting, and riling up restless behaviors. Saying they did so by "rational argumentation" is incredibly inaccurate.

Because rational argumentation had been ignored, and these people realized that results could still be secured without resorting to extremes. The only reason they are worth mentioning is that they secured impressive results under difficult circumstances, far beyond those which we face, without resorting to extreme measures, which all of them- Christ, Gandhi, and MLK had the following and influence to perpetuate.

Seeing as we are not discussing an issue which surrounds our very existance and could result in our mortal harm, I'd say can afford a little civility.

Congratulations on calling posting something nasty on a forum more extreme than organizing mass protests against an antagonistic government. Also on admitting argumentation didn't work.

Modifié par effortname, 18 mars 2012 - 07:19 .

[Kloborgg711]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Gandhi and MLK achieved their goals through a calculated means of mass gatherings, boycotting, and riling up restless behaviors. Saying they did so by "rational argumentation" is incredibly inaccurate.

Because rational argumentation had been ignored, and these people realized that results could still be secured without resorting to extremes. The only reason they are worth mentioning is that they secured impressive results under difficult circumstances, far beyond those which we face, without resorting to extreme measures, which all of them- Christ, Gandhi, and MLK had the following and influence to perpetuate.

Seeing as we are not discussing an issue which surrounds our very existance and could result in our mortal harm, I'd say can afford a little civility.

The point is that you can make good and reasoned arguments, but you can not make people hear them without getting a little louder.

[HenchxNarf]

wolf465 wrote...

So...what about the people defending the endings that are outright attacking the ones who want the dlc? Shouldn't they show some respect too.

Most of us are respectful, and usually when they're not its because they're fed up.. Like you, we have the right to say we don't want anything changed just like you have the right to say you do. Opinions: Everyone has them.

[Bhaal]

No

[Emcmillin09]

Eivuwan wrote...

Also you make it sound as though Bioware is doing us a favor by making these games. They are making them because we're paying for them. Consumers have a right to boycott products they don't like and tell others about how bad a product is. Bioware has spent so much time honing their skills to make rpgs. Do you really think that they can just switch to FPS and make equal amounts of money?

Could Bioware use that money to go to my Hemroid treatment? It would be good PR, giving their loyal customer the ability to sit down and enjoy their game.

[Computron2000]

kaisterbahn wrote...

Go **** yourself.

Interesting timing for this post.

[Skyhawk02]

Great post! I have been questioning why we still call these people fans when all they do is bash bioware.

[gudman]

Eivuwan wrote...

Also you make it sound as though Bioware is doing us a favor by making these games. They are making them because we're paying for them. Consumers have a right to boycott products they don't like and tell others about how bad a product is. Bioware has spent so much time honing their skills to make rpgs. Do you really think that they can just switch to FPS and make equal amounts of money?

Obviously not, they make them to master their artistic prowess. And we just happened to be wanting to buy their games. And they are doing us a favor saling said games. They lie about it, though, but we're not forced to buy, are we?


Bull**** type of argument I say, and it's a shame there're people who try and pull this argument once in while, what kind of ignorant ass should you be to believe it. 

[daguest]

I think being aggressive doesn't support he cause. Not only it's disrespectful, even if they are disrespectful, we don't have the right to do as they do.
And also because if BW change the ending, they will do something terrible, like killing everyone, shep, teamates, normandy... And say something like "fan wanted closure, we give closure to ME3 : everyone die". Revenge is a sweet thing.

[kaisterbahn]

FTR, Ghandi didn't like the blacks. Some people like saying **** **** ass dick **** **** mayonnaise ****got balls, because it adds a little umph.

The moral of the story, no one's perfect.

Modifié par kaisterbahn, 18 mars 2012 - 07:20 .

[Kloborgg711]

HenchxNarf wrote...

wolf465 wrote...

So...what about the people defending the endings that are outright attacking the ones who want the dlc? Shouldn't they show some respect too.

Most of us are respectful, and usually when they're not its because they're fed up.. Like you, we have the right to say we don't want anything changed just like you have the right to say you do. Opinions: Everyone has them.

Most of us are respectful as well. Surely you can understand why people get angry when you say "the majority of you guys are mean/childish/etc", even if you profess to not be referring to them in particular. It's like if you told me

"Most people in your country are stupid/evil. I'm not talking to those who are smart so if you're smart you don't need to take offense, but most of you are stupid/evil" Even if I believe I'm one of the smart ones, I'm going to take offense at you categorizing so many people. Does that make sense?

[Dragoonlordz]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Gandhi and MLK achieved their goals through a calculated means of mass gatherings, boycotting, and riling up restless behaviors. Saying they did so by "rational argumentation" is incredibly inaccurate.

Because rational argumentation had been ignored, and these people realized that results could still be secured without resorting to extremes. The only reason they are worth mentioning is that they secured impressive results under difficult circumstances, far beyond those which we face, without resorting to extreme measures, which all of them- Christ, Gandhi, and MLK had the following and influence to perpetuate.

Seeing as we are not discussing an issue which surrounds our very existance and could result in our mortal harm, I'd say can afford a little civility.

The point is that you can make good and reasoned arguments, but you can not make people hear them without getting a little louder.

Thats not true, nothing stops you from keeping on making reasonable posts, quantity does not get ignored, good quality gets noticed. Shouting and screaming and threats gets you ignored.

[Kloborgg711]

Skyhawk02 wrote...

Great post! I have been questioning why we still call these people fans when all they do is bash bioware.

So if you criticize something you love, you're no longer a fan? Market stagnation.

[Dragoonlordz]

HenchxNarf wrote...

wolf465 wrote...

So...what about the people defending the endings that are outright attacking the ones who want the dlc? Shouldn't they show some respect too.

Most of us are respectful, and usually when they're not its because they're fed up.. Like you, we have the right to say we don't want anything changed just like you have the right to say you do. Opinions: Everyone has them.

Opinions are not the problem, methods are.

[Dragoonlordz]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

wolf465 wrote...

So...what about the people defending the endings that are outright attacking the ones who want the dlc? Shouldn't they show some respect too.

Most of us are respectful, and usually when they're not its because they're fed up.. Like you, we have the right to say we don't want anything changed just like you have the right to say you do. Opinions: Everyone has them.

Most of us are respectful as well. Surely you can understand why people get angry when you say "the majority of you guys are mean/childish/etc", even if you profess to not be referring to them in particular. It's like if you told me

"Most people in your country are stupid/evil. I'm not talking to those who are smart so if you're smart you don't need to take offense, but most of you are stupid/evil" Even if I believe I'm one of the smart ones, I'm going to take offense at you categorizing so many people. Does that make sense?

Did not say majority or most, said many.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 mars 2012 - 07:24 .

[Kloborgg711]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
Shouting and screaming and threats gets you ignored.

History disagrees with you. The decision to greenlight an entirely new ending DLC comes from those up top, who ultimately will view it as a financial decision. As such, the most effective way to get what we want is to make our numbers and resolution clear. If we hurt sales, it's not because we want to hurt people, it's because we know it's an effective way of getting those people to notice us.

[longtimecoming00]

Skyhawk02 wrote...

Great post! I have been questioning why we still call these people fans when all they do is bash bioware.

I've been a fan of the Yankees all my life, but that didn't stop me from bashing them when they overpaid for the prima donna that is A-Rod.  Be careful not to confuse loyalty with blind loyalty.

[Kloborgg711]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

wolf465 wrote...

So...what about the people defending the endings that are outright attacking the ones who want the dlc? Shouldn't they show some respect too.

Most of us are respectful, and usually when they're not its because they're fed up.. Like you, we have the right to say we don't want anything changed just like you have the right to say you do. Opinions: Everyone has them.

Most of us are respectful as well. Surely you can understand why people get angry when you say "the majority of you guys are mean/childish/etc", even if you profess to not be referring to them in particular. It's like if you told me

"Most people in your country are stupid/evil. I'm not talking to those who are smart so if you're smart you don't need to take offense, but most of you are stupid/evil" Even if I believe I'm one of the smart ones, I'm going to take offense at you categorizing so many people. Does that make sense?

Did not say majority, said many.

I was responding to Hench.

[Auralius Carolus]

effortname wrote...

Congratulations on calling posting something nasty on a forum more extreme than organizing mass protests against a antogonistic government. Also on admitting argumentation didn't work.

The circumstances are different, the forum is different, the lesson is the same: there is a respective level of leverage that exists in which you can prove convincing without resorting to relative extremes, but still managing a reasonable probability of success. I believe this concept is housed in what is known as diplomacy.

[daisekihan]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I actually sad "What?" because that sentence made no grammatical sense and I honestly couldn't decipher it, not because I wasn't paying attention. So, your hypothesis (which you're trying to "prove") is that more and more people are being disrespectful in your view..

..Ok, so? Are we supposed to take responsibility for those people? Or do you think this thread is going to alert them to their grievous mistakes and they're going to suddenly stop? You're ranting to many about the few, and I really don't see the purpose.

My point being what I said first post, people need to start being more reasonable, respectful and less bile and disdain , threats and blackmail and listed many examples such 'fans' used attack Bioware and staff. I provided links to back up such claims while you went on a personal attack and made claims of myself which you did not back up.

If some people are rude, that's a shame, and it certainly won't get those people what they want. But your obsequious attitude is almost the polar opposite ---- the idea that we don't "deserve" the privelege of buying Bioware's products if we complain we're not getting what we want is akin to saying you don't deserve to eat at a restaurant that serves your favorite dish if you send it back because there's a hair in it.