46 réponses à ce sujet

[Walina]

That's odd, I didn't had that : "NO!! Don't make her king, she betrayed us!" O_o

I agree, if you want him to be a good king you've to harden him, if you don't he will always wander off, people will like him but he won't do anything for his people (Like Bhelen imo)

Anora did good things in my endings, she only messed up with the city elves >.>"

Modifié par Walina, 29 novembre 2009 - 02:17 .

[Hunter246]

she didn't betray me at landsmeet but i didn't give her the throne anyway lol so i feel she got payback for what she did when i saved her.

[Recidiva]

Walina wrote...

That's odd, I didn't had that : "NO!! Don't make her king, she betrayed us!" O_o

I agree, if you want him to be a good king you've to harden him, if you don't he will always wander off, people will like him but he won't do anything for his people (Like Bhelen imo)

Anora did good things in my endings, she only messed up with the city elves >.>"

Well, in my first playthrough I thought Anora was a lying **** and a manipulative wench (and she is, that hasn't changed) and I wouldn't talk to her, so I lost the Landsmeet because she turns against you, even if you saved her.

The only way to get Anora to speak on your behalf at the Landsmeet is to ally with her, otherwise she trashes you to everyone.

I was too "honorable" to do that and told her flat out I was making Alistair king and she could go suck it.

In subsequent playthroughs I lie to her and gather all the evidence and get it all in the right order and I win the Landsmeet at the cost of lying to her about it.

[Walina]

Okay, I see now. I didn't lied to her, I made her queen but seems I would've to do it in my next playthough with a hardenen Alistair so I could see that ending.

[apantoliani]

@ Recidiva



I did the same thing. I didn't make a chart though, after the 5th try, I reloaded to a previous point (I always make mad perma-saves after getting all the treaties) and left his ass at the gate. It tasted like victory.



Back to the OP, she's important because his "thing" his character flaw, everyone has to have one (or a couple) is having absolutely no family to speak of for various reasons. Oghren is a drunk, Leliana/Zevran/Sten all killed people for various reasons, Wynne got a student killed*, etc. Alistair has no family, is unwanted and has ****ty self-esteem as a result that point is kind of a moment where the PC and be like "You know..." or "Everything will be okay. :)"



*Not really, but, you know.

[Walina]

Oh, that's a good point, I didn't saw it in this way.

[ComTrav]

Anora only betrays her if you give her an opportunity to. Like, when you claim to Ser Cautherine that you are rescuing her, instead of surrendering quietly or screaming "Death First" before charging her army of a gajillion archers spamming scattershot. I didn't even realize that this was a possibility until reading some spoilers.

For the record: Ended up with (soft) Alistair married to Anora and it seemed to turn out all right. Most of the nice stuff from Anora's reign, but Alistair appoints an elf advisor to court so things turned out better on that front. Played the archdemon battle twice so I could make different choices at the end, in one I stayed behind as Alistair's chancellor. (I also played Landsmeet to final battle without making him King, tbh if you're interested in your character's relationship with Alistair it's more interesting to make him King.) And not hardening Alistair is one of two regrets from this playthrough. (The other was Harrowmont, but that was 'in character'.)

I understand family is important to Alistair--and I suppose I see the argument that this is the 'final straw' (the fade nightmare should've been a clue.) Coming as it did for me late in the game, with Arl Eamon back on his feet and talking about how Alistair would make a fine king and having done our crazy buddy-comedy adventures it seemed like the Plot of the Game had made Alistair grow up. (Certainly he seemed kingly enough in his "this man is a dwarf" speech.) I did the sidequest and felt the Right Thing To Do was point out that he didn't need this ephemeral family ideal of Goldana because he had plenty of people who cared about him. I suppose my gamer-sense should've tingled with the big "Alistair Personal Quest" marker and should've tried it a couple times.

Modifié par ComTrav, 29 novembre 2009 - 02:49 .

[Walina]

@ ComTrav : most of the girls choosed the same answer as you did, because it felt really out of space when you've to tell him "think first about yourself"

[ReubenLiew]

Because, like Boot Camp, when a man breaks down to nothing, that's when you start building him up to be a MAN!

[Recidiva]

apantoliani wrote...

@ Recidiva

I did the same thing. I didn't make a chart though, after the 5th try, I reloaded to a previous point (I always make mad perma-saves after getting all the treaties) and left his ass at the gate. It tasted like victory.

Heh.  I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss an option.  I didn't.  I purposely played a few games through without checking spoilers, just to test stuff.  My husband's patient with my obsession and chimes in with "Stupid Alistair!" whenever necessary.  Then goes ahead and says he'd never let me die either, I call him a sexist, he brings me a tissue and I get a hug and a shoulder to cry on if necessary and discuss love and sacrifice in real and not game terms.

I scrapped the whole plan of navigating romance with Alistair and I'm now just trudging through with a dwarven noble male to get my "sacrifice" ending.  Three plays through with a chick and Alistair just won't let me do it.  I took Morrigan's deal on a reset, but I hate the look on Alistair's face.  Also knowing I'm dooming someone, somewhere.  Someone not me.

Next game, I'll set the difficulty higher and do all the "correct" (won't say right) things to get the ideal sacrificial ending.  I'm sad that going with my heart doesn't lead me to where going with my heart leads me in reality, but I'm just grateful my reality's better than the game.  

[Vansen Elamber]

In both my plays my PC, even the mage, killed the Archdemon. The mage suddenly learned how to use a sword, sees one sticking out of a darkspawn corpse runs and grabs it as the dragon is attempting to stand back up, they she jumped on it and killed it expertly with the sword which she had no training with what so ever....



My elf rogue just never let anyone kill anything he wanted to kill first so thats his story,,,,,

[Recidiva]

Vansen Elamber wrote...

In both my plays my PC, even the mage, killed the Archdemon. The mage suddenly learned how to use a sword, sees one sticking out of a darkspawn corpse runs and grabs it as the dragon is attempting to stand back up, they she jumped on it and killed it expertly with the sword which she had no training with what so ever....

My elf rogue just never let anyone kill anything he wanted to kill first so thats his story,,,,,

I haven't gotten the chance.  If there's a romance with Alistair at least, he won't allow it under any circumstances if you're on the roof together.

Shock and anger at me telling him he can't take the final blow and then he says "You sound like I'm giving you a choice" and he runs off.  I don't get the opportunity to at least punch him and knock him out when he's trying to kiss me.  Irks me.  But my husband assures me it's manly and I think approves.  But I was so angry I just walked out of the final assembly without even seeing what Anora was saying or that my friends were there.  Furious.

I'm incensed.  So...I can't be a hero 'cause I'm a GIRL?  REALLY?  There's ranting.

[tmp7704]

Recidiva wrote...

I'm incensed.  So...I can't be a hero 'cause I'm a GIRL?  REALLY?  There's ranting.

I think you can't be because a guy in love with you cannot bring himself to let you   I'm fairly sure if Alistair fished on both sides of the pier the males would be equally screwed, it's just the way he is.

Although then it does make one wonder if he'd let you to sacrifice yourself if his relationship rating was neutral or less...

Modifié par tmp7704, 29 novembre 2009 - 03:54 .

[Recidiva]

I think you can't be because a guy in love with you cannot bring himself to let you   I'm fairly sure if Alistair fished on both sides of the pier the males would be equally screwed, it's just the way he is.

Although then it does make one wonder if he'd let you to sacrifice yourself if his relationship rating was neutral or less...

I think so too.  It's also part of Alistair wanting to shield Duncan on the field and that being his biggest regret.  I'm sure it's Alistair's happiest ending.  Unhardened, deeply in love, and the best hero and king he could be, redeeming himself in his own eyes and in the eyes of the woman he loves. 

It's not that I don't appreciate it.  I do get it, I do.  I'm just selfish and I want my ideal ending too, doing the same thing for him. 

I think if your approval is lower, there's a better shot at him backing down.  But I think romance on the roof at 100 with no deal is an irrevocable death sentence for him.

[kesayo2]

Because that's actually how real life works.
Most people don't believe what other people say when they are praised. He doesn't believe Eamon because Eamon could just be saying it for his own political gain. And you also have something to gain by your best friend becoming king (especially if  you're a female noble).
Also everyone knows that friends and family don't always see or tell it like it is. Do you believe your mommy when she says you're the handsomest guy in the world? Or do you suspect that her opinion is a little biased
You sort of expect your friends and family to praise you. That's why it doesn't effect him much. But when someone in your family (who is supposed to love you) tells you off, that cuts you a lot deeper.

[Recidiva]

kesayo2 wrote...

Because that's actually how real life works.
Most people don't believe what other people say when they are praised. He doesn't believe Eamon because Eamon could just be saying it for his own political gain. And you also have something to gain by your best friend becoming king (especially if  you're a female noble).
Also everyone knows that friends and family don't always see or tell it like it is. Do you believe your mommy when she says you're the handsomest guy in the world? Or do you suspect that her opinion is a little biased
You sort of expect your friends and family to praise you. That's why it doesn't effect him much. But when someone in your family (who is supposed to love you) tells you off, that cuts you a lot deeper.

Heh.  I don't get along with my family particularly.  I understood growing up that I couldn't choose my family, so I was polite and left as soon as possible.

So my viewpoint is entirely different.  I don't get it because I WAS capable of choosing differently.  I honor them, I care for them, and I love them as family.

But my mate's the one I chose, he's the one that matters, and I tell him the truth even if it's painful and expect him to do the same.

So my problem is projecting my security onto my NPC comrades.  Oh well.  Could be a lot worse. 

[SarEnyaDor]

This ticks me off, too.



I mean the "right" answer really is "you don't need her, you have others who care about you, like me!" THAT should be the answer that mans him up because it sure seems to be hardening other areas very shortly after. LOL



We were all set to rule together, and I left him at the gate, told him I loved him, and then got a really beautiful funeral and a statue to me, true he was a common king and disliked ruling, but the country seemed a-okay without him hardened. I particularly liked when I said we'd rule together he goes "Really? This is usually the point where I wake up or realize I'm not wearing any clothes..." LOL

[Recidiva]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

This ticks me off, too.

I mean the "right" answer really is "you don't need her, you have others who care about you, like me!" THAT should be the answer that mans him up because it sure seems to be hardening other areas very shortly after. LOL

We were all set to rule together, and I left him at the gate, told him I loved him, and then got a really beautiful funeral and a statue to me, true he was a common king and disliked ruling, but the country seemed a-okay without him hardened. I particularly liked when I said we'd rule together he goes "Really? This is usually the point where I wake up or realize I'm not wearing any clothes..." LOL

Hah!  I replay the second time...I have everything set up...Landsmeet's on my side...I'm looking for the Persuade option...there it is!  Alistair and I rule together!  Yes!

What does he say?

"Good choice."

"GOOD CHOICE?"  That's what I get?  REALLY?  I was so busy laughing though I had to just shrug it off.  I guess I expected a dramatic confession/proposal in the council chamber.  Nope.  The dude who has excelled at dramatic gestures in the game up until this point...says..."Good choice."

[SarEnyaDor]

Really? He didn't do the line about it being a dream? Was he hardened? My Alistair wasn't. And he was at 100% love.

[Recidiva]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Really? He didn't do the line about it being a dream? Was he hardened? My Alistair wasn't. And he was at 100% love.

I think I got that line too.  But I think that's in response to Arl Eamon, not my persuade. 

He wasn't hardened that time.  He still didn't want to be king. 

"I don't question why you made me king..."
"You're welcome?"

[SarEnyaDor]

I said "you aren't angry are you?" and he went on about no, but kids blah blah and I said if we didn't have kids it wouldn't be for lack of trying and it was all good from there... until my funeral. LOL

Though he did say how special I was to everybody who met me (I had 50 cunning, max coercion, and all of my party members were at 90+ approval at time of death) and that he thought we were going to be together forever, and that I was going to be more missed than I possibly could have known... still chokes me up a bit.

I have three saves for that one - one I leave him at gate, one I took the ritual, and one where I left him take the blow for the kiss, but that one makes me feel a dirty kind of sad when I do it.

Modifié par SarEnyaDor, 29 novembre 2009 - 05:07 .

[Recidiva]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I said "you aren't angry are you?" and he went on about no, but kids blah blah and I said if we didn't have kids it wouldn't be for lack of trying and it was all good from there... until my funeral. LOL

Though he did say how special I was to everybody who met me (I had 50 cunning, max coercion, and all of my party members were at 90+ approval at time of death) and that he thought we were going to be together forever, and that I was going to be more missed than I possibly could have known... still chokes me up a bit.

I have three saves for that one - one I leave him at gate, one I took the ritual, and one where I left him take the blow for the kiss, but that one makes me feel a dirty kind of sad when I do it.

I can't let him die again, can't take Morrigan's deal again.  He's died three times unless I take the deal, which I hate and consider a betrayal of everything I fought for.  I'm not all that impressed with the epilogue available if you survive.  Sacrifice all the way baby.

Now I'm finally convinced I can't coerce or charm or change that bit whatsoever by dint of will or replay, I'll just leave him at the gate.