613 réponses à ce sujet

[RShara]

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

But his point is that the Reapers wipe out the advanced races before they reach that point, so how does he know that it is ALWAYS reached?

It might make more sense to do this once the synthetics start to win?  Rather than on a timetable?

Do you have access to the history before the creation of the Reapers?

Do we know that this was going to happen this cycle?  Do we know it happened last cycle(Hi Javik)?

[Sundance31us]

MrGPhantome wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Close but not quite. Create synthetics to kill organics in order to preserve life.

That's not what is presented in the narrative.

There are some slight variations to the narrative; this is from the one that includes synthesis:

Shepard: I need to stop the Reapers. Do you know how I can do that?
Child:: Perhaps, I control the Reapers. They are my solution.
Shepard: Solution? To what?
Child: Chaos. The created will always rebel against their creators. But we found a way to stop that from happening. A way to restore order for the next cycle.
Shepard: By wiping out organic life?
Child: No. We harvest advanced civilizations, leaving the younger ones alone. Just as we left your people alive the last time we were here.
Shepard: But you killed the rest...
Child: We helped them ascend so they could make a way for new life, storing the old life in Reaper form.
Shepard: I think we'd rather keep our own form.
Child: No, you can't...without us to stop it, synthetics would destroy all organics. We've created this cycle so that never happens. That's the solution.
Shepard: <Dialogue Wheel>
Upper - You'll never understand. <---
Lower - We don't want to be preserved.
But you're taking away our future. Without a future, we have no hope. Without hope...we might as well be machines, programmed to do what we are told.
Child: You have hope. More than you think. The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever, proves it. But it also proves my solution won't work anymore.

[origlo]

I understand the (flawed) logic behind the Reapers, but the truth is that what they are doing is killing all organics, no matter how much time it takes. In math when you divide a number by two infinte times you get a zero in the end, and this is exactly what the Reapers are doing. Just think about this - what if the cycle went on for another billion years? galactic resources are not infinte. Eventually organic life would simply fail to develop Mass Effect tech, or worse - stop to evolve at all.

Oh, and since this is my first post on those forums - Yeah, i hate the endings too. ALOT.

Modifié par origlo, 18 mars 2012 - 12:22 .

[piemanz]

RShara wrote...

piemanz wrote...

A Paperback Hero wrote...

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

They all end up dead. The end result is the same.

Culling some organics while leaving others to live = / = Killing all organics so none are left alive

And yet culling each organic over time systematically = all organic life dead anyway.

No future no point. No freedom to dictate their own demise synthetic or not = no point as well.

Yea, but you fail to see that the Reapers beleive they are preserving life by creating a Reaper. Whether you see it as murder or not is totally irrelevent because they don't hold the same value or morality to you. The point is that TO THEM, it's logical to kill the sythetics, and ASCEND the organics to restore order.

I know you're going to say, "how is turning them into goo ascending", it's irrelevent what you think because they see themselves as a higher form of evolution so it's logical that they think makeing a Reaper from organic material is in some twisted way, ascension.

Yes in many ways it's self serving, and in some ways their logic is flawed, but  TO THEM , it's the best solution to a problem they perceive to exist.

And we are sayign THEIR LOGIC IS FLAWED.  And I don't see how an immortal race could fail to comprehend this when we can.

The point is it's logical to them because they don't hold the same values and morals to you. You can't say that what they're doing is illogical whithout looking at it from their perspective. Especially when they state their solution is a solution to "chaos",  and that they're "restoring order", which is their real motivation, not saving organics.

[CavScout]

RShara wrote...

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

But his point is that the Reapers wipe out the advanced races before they reach that point, so how does he know that it is ALWAYS reached?

It might make more sense to do this once the synthetics start to win?  Rather than on a timetable?

Do you have access to the history before the creation of the Reapers?

Do we know that this was going to happen this cycle?  Do we know it happened last cycle(Hi Javik)?

Was that a dodge? You could have simply said, "No, I don't know the full history...."

[Exeider]

MrGPhantome wrote...

I just want everyone to absorb the title of the thread... and realize how insanely retarded that is.

That's the ending in a nutshell dipped in dog ****.

Please don't praise this premise of a story.

cuz it made so much sense in BSG.....(cricket chirp)
-Æ

[RShara]

I don't see how a machine can think a never ending loop logical. Usually, in programs, this causes a lock up and a break down.

[A Paperback Hero]

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

But his point is that the Reapers wipe out the advanced races before they reach that point, so how does he know that it is ALWAYS reached?

It might make more sense to do this once the synthetics start to win?  Rather than on a timetable?

Do you have access to the history before the creation of the Reapers?

And now you go right back into semantics. Sigh...

In production if a machine keeps spitting out a bad product, you turn it off and then fix it. This jesus boy obviously had that answer all along by being able to force peace through merging synths and organics. It makes no logical sense for him to 'preserve' organics just so they can continue the same unbroken chain.

OH wait. It just hit me we are in a space zoo and the space boy is doing this so there is still an organic attraction. Now it all makes sense. I hope the galaxy is a popular attraction to deal with all this upkeep. every 50k years.

[RShara]

CavScout: No, it wasn't a dodge. I was disproving the Starchild's premise of IT ALWAYS HAPPENS. Because it hasn't yet.

[Zing Freelancer]

alek2702 wrote...

MrGPhantome wrote...

Zing Freelancer wrote...

Actually Reapers kill advanced organic life to make way for the young, it's more about keeping the evoluion process going. If Protheans have not been wiped out, humanity would have no future. You can draw an analogy to our real world, as humans progress and expand on earth, the habitants of animal kingdom have to make way. If humans are allowed to continue the most likely outcome is that they become sole lifeforms on earth.

Eventually chances are that advanced organic life might create sythetic lifeforms that will erradicated advanced organic life form and all young lifeforms, stopping the evolution process.

Who all die anyway when the cycle continues due to the ****ty premise of Create synthetics to kill organics to make sure synthetics don't kill organics.

We've done this argument back in page 2.

Once again, it's Create controlled synthetics to kill advanced organics to make sure uncontrolled synthetics don't all kill organics.
And if it's just 'semantics and unnecessary adjectives' then I could render pretty much every plot nonsensical this way.
After all, Luke Skywalker kills people to save people from getting killed. NONSENSE!1!!1

Gods you people are dumb, its not about preventing uncontrolled synthetics from killing organics. This is about making way for new life forms, unshackelling them from advanced life forms.
Just let yourself play with the idea of Lions evolving into being on par with humans... But because of humans suppressing lions, they will never reach that stage, unless humans are removed.

[MalevoIence]

A Paperback Hero wrote...

Ranicus56 wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

Heathen Pride wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

Wait..... thought Reapers were both synthetic and organic, using the us to create themselves, hence the human reaper

Yeah..I suppose they are. But they're controlled by Space Boy as we learn at the end, so they may as well be mindless golems that bend to the will of Space Boy.

My point is, they're not entirely synthetic, they're a hybrid

But reapers are controlled by a super synthetic AI...

Nice catch! Lets fix the phrase I guess. Hybrid synthetics made by synthetics to kill all organics to save the organics. Hmmm pretty much sounds the same. Thanks

No it doesn't..... Hybrid means both........ you might aswell call them hybrid organics, sounds different doesnt it?  wish you could see me flipping you off lol

[CavScout]

origlo wrote...

I understand the (flawed) logic behind the Reapers, but the truth is that what they are doing is killing all organics, no matter how much time it takes. In math when you divide a number by two infinte times you get a zero in the end....

You do know this is false, right?

[MrGPhantome]

alek2702 wrote...

Once again, it's Create controlled synthetics to kill advanced organics to make sure uncontrolled synthetics don't all kill organics.
And if it's just 'semantics and unnecessary adjectives' then I could render pretty much every plot nonsensical this way.
After all, Luke Skywalker kills people to save people from getting killed. NONSENSE!1!!1

Luke Skywalker kills a few to save the many.

The Catalyst Create synthetics to kill organics to make sure synthetics don't kill organics.

One is a logical justification for killing, the other is complete contridiction.

Again, The premise remains the same, abjectives are irrelevent don't change the core premise, that artificially created things (synthetics) kill naturally created things (organics) to make sure Artificially created things don't kill naturally created things.

[A Paperback Hero]

RShara wrote...

CavScout: No, it wasn't a dodge. I was disproving the Starchild's premise of IT ALWAYS HAPPENS. Because it hasn't yet.

True! and good morning / night.

[CavScout]

A Paperback Hero wrote...

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

But his point is that the Reapers wipe out the advanced races before they reach that point, so how does he know that it is ALWAYS reached?

It might make more sense to do this once the synthetics start to win?  Rather than on a timetable?

Do you have access to the history before the creation of the Reapers?

And now you go right back into semantics. Sigh...

It's not semantics to dispute a claim of origin when that origin was never given.

[JeosDinas]

RShara wrote...
My point is that other than timescale, there's no difference between killing everything at once, and killing everything every so often.

 

This is a vapid point. Everything dies, yes. But by your logic, that means attempts to save life are inherently pointless. I see no reason to agree with this idea at all. Morally, it's actually fairly callous.

RShara wrote...But his point is that the Reapers wipe out the advanced races before they reach that point, so how does he know that it is ALWAYS reached? 

 

This has been a part of the series since the first game, actually. The Reapers have taken it upon themselves to meticulous plan the rate of technological growth throughout the galaxy in each cycle. It's very much something calculated. As we move along the x axis, time wise, we move upwards on the y, tech wise. The Reapers know how far it takes on the x for the galaxy to reach the appointed y point. At which time, they act.

RShara wrote... It might make more sense to do this once the synthetics start to win?  Rather than on a timetable?

I've always gotten the sense that the timetable is link directly to the point where the Reapers believe there must be intervention. Right before the end of the Protheans, the Metacon Wars occured. Right before this cycle, the Morning War occured. I'd suggest that this is not coincidental. 

Modifié par JeosDinas, 18 mars 2012 - 12:27 .

[Exeider]

Zing Freelancer wrote...

alek2702 wrote...

MrGPhantome wrote...

Zing Freelancer wrote...

Actually Reapers kill advanced organic life to make way for the young, it's more about keeping the evoluion process going. If Protheans have not been wiped out, humanity would have no future. You can draw an analogy to our real world, as humans progress and expand on earth, the habitants of animal kingdom have to make way. If humans are allowed to continue the most likely outcome is that they become sole lifeforms on earth.

Eventually chances are that advanced organic life might create sythetic lifeforms that will erradicated advanced organic life form and all young lifeforms, stopping the evolution process.

Who all die anyway when the cycle continues due to the ****ty premise of Create synthetics to kill organics to make sure synthetics don't kill organics.

We've done this argument back in page 2.

Once again, it's Create controlled synthetics to kill advanced organics to make sure uncontrolled synthetics don't all kill organics.
And if it's just 'semantics and unnecessary adjectives' then I could render pretty much every plot nonsensical this way.
After all, Luke Skywalker kills people to save people from getting killed. NONSENSE!1!!1

Gods you people are dumb, its not about preventing uncontrolled synthetics from killing organics. This is about making way for new life forms, unshackelling them from advanced life forms.
Just let yourself play with the idea of Lions evolving into being on par with humans... But because of humans suppressing lions, they will never reach that stage, unless humans are removed.

yeah nature has something like that already........its called extinction, it happens normally. bringing about a cataclysm every 50,000 years is not much of a sense of progress.
-Æ

[A Paperback Hero]

CavScout wrote...

A Paperback Hero wrote...

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

But his point is that the Reapers wipe out the advanced races before they reach that point, so how does he know that it is ALWAYS reached?

It might make more sense to do this once the synthetics start to win?  Rather than on a timetable?

Do you have access to the history before the creation of the Reapers?

And now you go right back into semantics. Sigh...

It's not semantics to dispute a claim of origin when that origin was never given.

and your arguement IS the origin never given. Therefore no arguement presented.

[CavScout]

MrGPhantome wrote...

alek2702 wrote...

Once again, it's Create controlled synthetics to kill advanced organics to make sure uncontrolled synthetics don't all kill organics.
And if it's just 'semantics and unnecessary adjectives' then I could render pretty much every plot nonsensical this way.
After all, Luke Skywalker kills people to save people from getting killed. NONSENSE!1!!1

Luke Skywalker kills a few to save the many.

And the Reapers kill some so that some others can live.

Funny that...

[Justicar]

Reaping is like gardening.

You destroy something so it can be preserved and flourish again.

[ed87]

All that hype about the Reapers, just to conclude that they had no idea what they were doing and they were out of touch with life

[MrGPhantome]

CavScout wrote...

And the Reapers kill some so that some others can live.

Funny that...

Luke doesn't keep killing people once he's saved everyone.

In Mass Effect: synthetics to kill organics to make sure synthetics don't kill organics.

Again, a contradiction and an overall ****ty premise.

[Atkara]

I don't buy this.

If the Protheans and their subjects, hadn't been eradicated, humans would propably not be in position for anything. On the other hand, the Prothean social structure was their ultimate undoing. And the only thing we know about the older advanced civilizations of the Galaxy, is that they ran out of time, developing and building the Crucible. A project, being re-discovered and further developed, during each cycle.

Nobody can really tell, if the Protheans would've had a single chance to establish this kind of, ruthless empire, hadn't the older advanced races been eradicated by the Reapers.

Now, for The Catalyst AI: The Synthetic life form, behind the ongoing cycle of galactic anhilation by the Reapers. It offers, Synthesis. What exactly is, Synthesis? A mix of DNA and Reaper Code.

What the Catalyst actually offers, is, pretty much another form of what was being going on all along: instead of storing Organic Life Forms in Reaper form, store the Reapers and itself in Organic form.

I don't think the Catalyst and the Reapers, were really protecting the Galaxy from Chaos. The Galactic Anhilation Cycle, was merely a preemptive measure to protect themselves from eventually being discovered by an Organic life form, capable enough to threaten and destroy them.

Why not assimilate or eradicate all organic life forms, then? Because they can't. Life is a spontaneous event, triggered by the Universe itself. Furthermore, they need Organic life forms, to produce new Reapers. Along with Organic DNA, they assimilate ideas and propably, what they perceive as a soul. No Reaper is complete, without those 2.

And now that Shepard, united all the Sentient Organic life forms and brought them to the Catalyst's doorstep, he's willing to negotiate. Clever

Modifié par Atkara, 18 mars 2012 - 12:33 .

[res27772]

MrGPhantome wrote...

I just want everyone to absorb the title of the thread... and realize how insanely retarded that is.

That's the ending in a nutshell dipped in dog ****.

Please don't praise this premise of a story.

I know, it took a little while to get what the AI was actually saying, when it did dawn on me, the ending wasn't only ****e, it was laughable.

[Exeider]

Here's a bigger question, what about Organics that create organic slave races, does the catalyst not give a crap about that.

I mean, Organics could genetically engineer a race then that race revolts and kills the first group.
Starchild sounds to me like a racist.

"Yo dawg, I only care if Organics keep the synthetic man down, Synthetic Power, baby!"
-Æ