613 réponses à ce sujet

[CavScout]

ed87 wrote...

All that hype about the Reapers, just to conclude that they had no idea what they were doing and they were out of touch with life

There is little doubt they were out of touch with life*.

*Organics that is.

[A Paperback Hero]

Justicar wrote...

Reaping is like gardening.

You destroy something so it can be preserved and flourish again.

Glad sentient organic existence is so valid that it's treated like a non-sentient garden. I guess thats a good conclusion since we could possibly assume that the star child is omnipotent and would look down on organics like a garden.

[Biotic Sage]

Justicar wrote...

Reaping is like gardening.

You destroy something so it can be preserved and flourish again.

"Reaping is like gardening!"

I want a picture of a Reaper in a sunhat gently tending to his lillies on a beautiful summer afternoon with this tagline on it now.  haha

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 18 mars 2012 - 12:30 .

[origlo]

CavScout wrote...

origlo wrote...

I understand the (flawed) logic behind the Reapers, but the truth is that what they are doing is killing all organics, no matter how much time it takes. In math when you divide a number by two infinte times you get a zero in the end....

You do know this is false, right?

When we get to the point that the reapers come to "harvest" your atoms i think we can call it a zero.

[CavScout]

MrGPhantome wrote...

CavScout wrote...

And the Reapers kill some so that some others can live.

Funny that...

Luke doesn't keep killing people once he's saved everyone.

The EU says otherwise...

In Mass Effect: synthetics to kill organics to make sure synthetics don't kill organics.

In ME the Reapers are a organic/synthetic hybrid, the pinnacle of evolution. Don't let that get in the way of a good rant thou.

[MissMaster_2]

Can't just be evil? How hard is that!!!?

[Biotic Sage]

origlo wrote...

CavScout wrote...

origlo wrote...

I understand the (flawed) logic behind the Reapers, but the truth is that what they are doing is killing all organics, no matter how much time it takes. In math when you divide a number by two infinte times you get a zero in the end....

You do know this is false, right?

When we get to the point that the reapers come to "harvest" your atoms i think we can call it a zero.

He's saying in the abstract world of mathematics (which is what you were appealing to) it is false.

[Ranicus56]

Reading all this is giving me a headache...

[AlexXIV]

111987 wrote...

It should be "Create synthetics to harvest/kill space-faring organics to make sure other synthetics don't kill ALL organics."

There is a difference. It's still a horrific plan, but it's not as 'retarded' as you're suggesting.

It's an exaggeration to make fun of it. I think people are clear about what you just mentioned. But if Bioware make a dumb excuse like this then we are entitled to make fun of this exactly this way. Imo.

[Joshuaaaaa]

It definitely seemed to me like Organics were being preserved. I mean, did you see the "Hall of Dead Bloody Corpses" on the citadel at the very end?

Who knows. Maybe they mean't to put them all on ice, but ran out of ice.

[alek2702]

MrGPhantome wrote...

alek2702 wrote...

Once again, it's Create controlled synthetics to kill advanced organics to make sure uncontrolled synthetics don't all kill organics.
And if it's just 'semantics and unnecessary adjectives' then I could render pretty much every plot nonsensical this way.
After all, Luke Skywalker kills people to save people from getting killed. NONSENSE!1!!1

Luke Skywalker kills a few to save the many.

It's just semantics and adjectives.
I still think Luke kills people to save people from being killed. Star Wars needs a new premise.
You know I'm right, don't you? /sarcasm

Modifié par alek2702, 18 mars 2012 - 12:44 .

[CavScout]

Exeider wrote...

Here's a bigger question, what about Organics that create organic slave races, does the catalyst not give a crap about that.

I mean, Organics could genetically engineer a race then that race revolts and kills the first group.
Starchild sounds to me like a racist.

"Yo dawg, I only care if Organics keep the synthetic man down, Synthetic Power, baby!"
-Æ

The Reaper seem to be concerned about all organic life being wiped out. Organic slave revolting and killing off their masters doesn't kill off all organic life... now does it?

[origlo]

Biotic Sage wrote...

origlo wrote...

CavScout wrote...

origlo wrote...

I understand the (flawed) logic behind the Reapers, but the truth is that what they are doing is killing all organics, no matter how much time it takes. In math when you divide a number by two infinte times you get a zero in the end....

You do know this is false, right?

When we get to the point that the reapers come to "harvest" your atoms i think we can call it a zero.

He's saying in the abstract world of mathematics (which is what you were appealing to) it is false.

My point was that at some point you stop calling it a number and refer to it zero.

[RShara]

Justicar wrote...

Reaping is like gardening.

You destroy something so it can be preserved and flourish again.

No, it's destroying something, and then later, destroying more.  As someone else brought up, the galaxy isn't infinite.  Eventually, no more organic life will evolve, or the eezo will run out, or the metal will, and no more space faring races will come in to play.

It's like our natural resources.  Yes, many of them self-perpetuate.  But eventually, they will end, or not perpetuate fast enough to sustain the cycle.

[Kelgair]

RShara wrote...

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

But his point is that the Reapers wipe out the advanced races before they reach that point, so how does he know that it is ALWAYS reached?

It might make more sense to do this once the synthetics start to win?  Rather than on a timetable?

Do you have access to the history before the creation of the Reapers?

Do we know that this was going to happen this cycle?  Do we know it happened last cycle(Hi Javik)?

We actually do know that a synthetic race was created during his cycle that took over and basically destroyed their creators, I think in the dialogue Javik says something like "this was about the time the
reapers arrived". Happened in the discussion about legion (Throw it out an airlock!) if I remember right.

Modifié par Kelgair, 18 mars 2012 - 12:36 .

[Golden_Boy187]

1. If you want to save organics why don't you just kill the synthetic threat of that cycle?....kill of the Geth don't recruit them to help you kill i mean save the organics.
2. Are the geth really a threat at that point in time in the galaxy? i don't think so, hell the quarians were holding their own against the geth. Things only turned when the reapers started to help them out.
3. what synthetic life form was a threat in the last cycle? what Geth type enemy were the Protheans fighting?

[piemanz]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Can't just be evil? How hard is that!!!?

They are evil.

Hitler was evil, but his logic was sound. If you don't like jews then it's logical that you kill them all. Same with the Reapers, they have a solution to a problem they perceive to exist, and to them it's perfectly logical, it's only illogical when you don't look at it from their perspective.

Modifié par piemanz, 18 mars 2012 - 12:36 .

[CavScout]

origlo wrote...

CavScout wrote...

origlo wrote...

I understand the (flawed) logic behind the Reapers, but the truth is that what they are doing is killing all organics, no matter how much time it takes. In math when you divide a number by two infinte times you get a zero in the end....

You do know this is false, right?

When we get to the point that the reapers come to "harvest" your atoms i think we can call it a zero.

You making an assumption that at the end of each cycle there was less organic life than at the begining of the last.

Besides, the point was your math example was false.

Modifié par CavScout, 18 mars 2012 - 12:37 .

[A Paperback Hero]

origlo wrote...

CavScout wrote...

origlo wrote...

I understand the (flawed) logic behind the Reapers, but the truth is that what they are doing is killing all organics, no matter how much time it takes. In math when you divide a number by two infinte times you get a zero in the end....

You do know this is false, right?

When we get to the point that the reapers come to "harvest" your atoms i think we can call it a zero.

infinity divided by infinite is zero. That's basic math. Reapers kill sentient organics into infinity. less organics allowed to evolve to sentient organics to infinity. The value is still zero as no organic species is allowed the freedom to make the choice to thrive or destroy themselves inevitably with synths .

Modifié par A Paperback Hero, 18 mars 2012 - 12:37 .

[CavScout]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Can't just be evil? How hard is that!!!?

Logic and evil are not mutually exclusive.

[JPVS]

We cannot say the galaxy's resources are infine. New stars are born, new planets formed, etc. It may take millions of years but the Reapers are eternal, so a dozen million of years for them means nothing. Now you can argue the universe is ending but even the actual physicists can't say that for a fact. So, as far as we know, the resources are indeed infinite, although it takes millions of years to get new resources available.

In the end, the Child/Catalyst logic makes sense only if during the countless cycles it has seen, their logic has been proven true: that synthetics always turn on their creators and try to annihilate organic life. So they harvest civilizations capable of creating synthetic life, in order to allow the less advanced ones to flourish until those become capable of creating synthetic life.
However, being an AI with just calculus, once a single example against that logic was shown, the AI's logic would be destroyed and it would then be forced to accept the possibility that at least in that cycle, the synthetics wouldn't turn on their creators. And wasn't that proven by EDI wanting to help organics and getting peace between Geth and the Quarians? That is the real flaw of the game, not being able to destroy the ChildCatalyst/s logic with what the commander Shepard learned during his life.

Modifié par JPVS, 18 mars 2012 - 12:38 .

[MrGPhantome]

CavScout wrote...

The EU says otherwise...

Luke doesn't have a contradicting moral towards his killing. He isn't kiling people so that others won't kill them. He kills people because of differing philisophical posistions.

Reapers who are synthetic or Artificially created kill organics to make sure synthetics don't kill organics.

CavScout wrote...
In ME the Reapers are a organic/synthetic hybrid, the pinnacle of evolution. Don't let that get in the way of a good rant thou.

Being org/synth hybrids are irrelevant to the premise's flaws. 

Modifié par MrGPhantome, 18 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[Exeider]

CavScout wrote...

Exeider wrote...

Here's a bigger question, what about Organics that create organic slave races, does the catalyst not give a crap about that.

I mean, Organics could genetically engineer a race then that race revolts and kills the first group.
Starchild sounds to me like a racist.

"Yo dawg, I only care if Organics keep the synthetic man down, Synthetic Power, baby!"
-Æ

The Reaper seem to be concerned about all organic life being wiped out. Organic slave revolting and killing off their masters doesn't kill off all organic life... now does it?

eh, maybe not, but ask the humans from planet of the apes if they are having a good time.
-Æ

[JeosDinas]

Joshuaaaaa wrote...

It definitely seemed to me like Organics were being preserved. I mean, did you see the "Hall of Dead Bloody Corpses" on the citadel at the very end?

Who knows. Maybe they mean't to put them all on ice, but ran out of ice.

I believe the idea is that because Reapers are partially composed using the DNA of the reaped species, there's some testament that those beings existed.

[CavScout]

origlo wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

origlo wrote...

CavScout wrote...

origlo wrote...

I understand the (flawed) logic behind the Reapers, but the truth is that what they are doing is killing all organics, no matter how much time it takes. In math when you divide a number by two infinte times you get a zero in the end....

You do know this is false, right?

When we get to the point that the reapers come to "harvest" your atoms i think we can call it a zero.

He's saying in the abstract world of mathematics (which is what you were appealing to) it is false.

My point was that at some point you stop calling it a number and refer to it zero.

A small number is still not zero.