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Create synthetics to kill organics to make sure synthetics don't kill organics.


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#326
Genera1Nemesis

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RShara wrote...

Culling]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culling]Culling

Also doesn't meet the definition of what the Reapers are doing, since they are not breeding or trying for some specific criteria (which would actually be more cool and make more sense. The entire galaxy is their laboratory and they come every 50k yrs to check on their experiments).


They are kinda breeding; they create new Reapers with the harvested DNA of each species.

#327
RShara

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But the organics aren't killing the organics in this scenario. The synthetics maybe are.
So the rabbits are creating wolves, so the rabbits should all be killed so that the squirrels can live.
And then the squirrels will be killed so that they don't create foxes, so that the ladybugs can live.

#328
RShara

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Genera1Nemesis wrote...

RShara wrote...

Culling]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culling]Culling

Also doesn't meet the definition of what the Reapers are doing, since they are not breeding or trying for some specific criteria (which would actually be more cool and make more sense. The entire galaxy is their laboratory and they come every 50k yrs to check on their experiments).


They are kinda breeding; they create new Reapers with the harvested DNA of each species.



Breeding as their goal would also be cool.

#329
Genera1Nemesis

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Consider for a moment what each Reaper represents; the hive intelligence of billions of organic minds all from one specific species they have harvested in the millions of years they've been doing this.

Now consider that if the hive mind is similar to the Geth consensus thing; (Sovereign hated the Geth, he really did) then that means that once all these minds came together they agreed with what the Reapers goal was...

#330
Kelgair

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Golden_Boy187 wrote...

Kelgair wrote...

Golden_Boy187 wrote...

3. what synthetic life form was a threat in the last cycle? what Geth type enemy were the Protheans fighting?


Ah found it.



so one may only know this for the price of 10 bucks.........and bioware said this DLC will not have a impact on the story. 


It doesn't, you're never given the option to actually throw Legion out an airlock. It's just a nifty tidbit of information that just happens to apply for this discussion.

#331
Kanon777

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A Paperback Hero wrote...

Justicar wrote...

Reaping is like gardening.

You destroy something so it can be preserved and flourish again.


Glad sentient organic existence is so valid that it's treated like a non-sentient garden. I guess thats a good conclusion since we could possibly assume that the star child is omnipotent and would look down on organics like a garden.



From the point of view of the reapers, we are not much more sentient/inteligent than pigs and cows (that we breed for the sake of killing) so they have just as much moral obligation to see us a precious creatures than we have to our farm animals.   

#332
Kanon777

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RShara wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

RShara wrote...

Culling]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culling]Culling

Also doesn't meet the definition of what the Reapers are doing, since they are not breeding or trying for some specific criteria (which would actually be more cool and make more sense. The entire galaxy is their laboratory and they come every 50k yrs to check on their experiments).


They are kinda breeding; they create new Reapers with the harvested DNA of each species.



Breeding as their goal would also be cool.


It IS their goal, the Child himself said they "preserve life in reaper form", instead of destroying it completely. 

#333
Genera1Nemesis

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tobito113 wrote...

A Paperback Hero wrote...

Justicar wrote...

Reaping is like gardening.

You destroy something so it can be preserved and flourish again.


Glad sentient organic existence is so valid that it's treated like a non-sentient garden. I guess thats a good conclusion since we could possibly assume that the star child is omnipotent and would look down on organics like a garden.



From the point of view of the reapers, we are not much more sentient/inteligent than pigs and cows (that we breed for the sake of killing) so they have just as much moral obligation to see us a precious creatures than we have to our farm animals.   


Again, they don't see it as killing you. They are going to turn you into a Reaper, and in doing so they actually in a twisted way see you as their equal once you have 'ascended."

#334
JeosDinas

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RShara wrote...Also doesn't meet the definition of what the Reapers are doing, since they are not breeding or trying for some specific criteria .


Your latter statement is actually false here. The specific criteria is not biological in this case, but technological. Furthermore, you're fundamentally ignoring that the goal is, to all intents and purposes, population stabilization. Which is very often the goal of state hunting regulations (as opposed to, say, a more eugenics/farming based goal of controlling traits in the the population). But even then, the Reaper's actions also are done to ensure specifical traits are present and others are not. These things are simply, again, not measured biologically.

Modifié par JeosDinas, 18 mars 2012 - 12:59 .


#335
RShara

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I recognize this as a a valid pt, which is why I didn't use it.

#336
Golden_Boy187

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Kelgair wrote...

Golden_Boy187 wrote...

Kelgair wrote...

Golden_Boy187 wrote...

3. what synthetic life form was a threat in the last cycle? what Geth type enemy were the Protheans fighting?


Ah found it.



so one may only know this for the price of 10 bucks.........and bioware said this DLC will not have a impact on the story. 


It doesn't, you're never given the option to actually throw Legion out an airlock. It's just a nifty tidbit of information that just happens to apply for this discussion.

Still information i think every mass effect player should know giving the importance of the Protheans and their history in the game. 

#337
Kanon777

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Genera1Nemesis wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

A Paperback Hero wrote...

Justicar wrote...

Reaping is like gardening.

You destroy something so it can be preserved and flourish again.


Glad sentient organic existence is so valid that it's treated like a non-sentient garden. I guess thats a good conclusion since we could possibly assume that the star child is omnipotent and would look down on organics like a garden.



From the point of view of the reapers, we are not much more sentient/inteligent than pigs and cows (that we breed for the sake of killing) so they have just as much moral obligation to see us a precious creatures than we have to our farm animals.   


Again, they don't see it as killing you. They are going to turn you into a Reaper, and in doing so they actually in a twisted way see you as their equal once you have 'ascended."


No, they kill "people", what they dont kill is "the species", they dont cause extinction (in their view) but they obviously murder individuals

#338
alek2702

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MrGPhantome wrote...

Last point and I'm out of here. I didn't realize that so many people would be as, for a lack of a better word, dumb, as they are.

The premise is bad. You can try and add all the superfluous details like "Synthetic/organic hybrid" or replace kill with "preserve." It doesn't change the badness of the core premise.

I can't believe I have to say it like this, but:

BAD THINGS KILL THE GOOD THINGS SO THAT BAD THINGS DON'T KILL GOOD THINGS.

That is the premise of Mass Effect 3. It's a flawed contradicting premise which lead to the bull**** motivation of the catalyst and therefore the absolutely unacceptable ending.


F***ing hell, you really don't get that if you oversimplify things like that, you can make every plot nonsensical.
I'm not so sure who's the dumb one here.

Modifié par alek2702, 18 mars 2012 - 01:10 .


#339
RShara

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JeosDinas wrote...

RShara wrote...Also doesn't meet the definition of what the Reapers are doing, since they are not breeding or trying for some specific criteria .


Your latter statement is actually false here. The specific criteria is not biological in this case, but technological. Furthermore, you're fundamentally ignoring that the goal is, to all intents and purposes, population stabilization. Which is very often the goal of state hunting regulations (as opposed to, say, a more eugenics/farming based goal of controlling traits in the the population). But even then, the Reaper's actions also are done to ensure specifical traits are present and others are not. These things are simply, again, not measured biologically.

Specifically, culling doesn't apply because they are not looking for any specific criteria in the races they hunt to be preserved.  They wipe the slate clean.
They're also not trying to control a population, but wipe it clean.

#340
Genera1Nemesis

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tobito113 wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

A Paperback Hero wrote...

Justicar wrote...

Reaping is like gardening.

You destroy something so it can be preserved and flourish again.


Glad sentient organic existence is so valid that it's treated like a non-sentient garden. I guess thats a good conclusion since we could possibly assume that the star child is omnipotent and would look down on organics like a garden.



From the point of view of the reapers, we are not much more sentient/inteligent than pigs and cows (that we breed for the sake of killing) so they have just as much moral obligation to see us a precious creatures than we have to our farm animals.   


Again, they don't see it as killing you. They are going to turn you into a Reaper, and in doing so they actually in a twisted way see you as their equal once you have 'ascended."


No, they kill "people", what they dont kill is "the species", they dont cause extinction (in their view) but they obviously murder individuals


Yes, I know : I was merely pointing out how they actually consider organics as being they're equals; and that they believe they are doing us a favor (and for all we know, maybe being a Reaper is pretty cool)

#341
Ranicus56

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In my opinion: Yes reapers are organic and synthetic but they are
controlled by a synthetic AI. So the god kid is doing what he dosen't
want. He talks about chaos but it is he who is making the most chaos to
begin with.



Maybe he wasn't programed right. Maybe his creators
were a bit crazy, or his programing started to slip over time. He could be right. We don't
know. All in all i don't think we will ever know. But in my eyes there
are alot of plot-holes in the ending or we don't unstand. Ether way we
are f***ed.

Plz remember that this is just my opinion and i'm not trying to make you understand. And i like to read other peoples opinions, but i do not hate them for theres. so plz don't hate on mine :)

Modifié par Ranicus56, 18 mars 2012 - 01:07 .


#342
Maimh

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Could we clarify something here?
Are the Reaper consensus that synthetic will kill all sapient organic life, or all organic life?

Because I find it odd that a group of synthetics should hate organic life so much that they would set out to kill all bacteria.

#343
Genera1Nemesis

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Ranicus56 wrote...

In my opinion: Yes reapers are organic and synthetic but they are
controlled by a synthetic AI. So the god kid is doing what he dosen't
want. He talks about chaos but it is he who is making the most chaos to
begin with.



Maybe he wasn't programed right. Maybe his creators
were a bit crazy, or his programing started to slip over time. He could be right. We don't
know. All in all i don't think we will ever know. But in my eyes there
are alot of plot-holes in the ending or we don't unstand. Ether way we
are f***ed.

Plz remember that this is just my opinion and i'm not trying to make you understand. And i like to read other peoples opinions, but i do not hate them for theres. so plz don't hate on mine [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]


A general can clain to 'control' his army, but that doesn't mean that he programs them either. Catalyst may be just the one who gave them their orders; their purpose. Whe you talk to Soverign or Harbinger did they seem like a 'controlled' organism? No, they just seemed to be very fanatical in their devotion to their cause.

#344
RShara

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To kill the organic life that is capable of creating synthetic life.
They leave the yahg alone, for example, even though they are sapient.

#345
piemanz

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RShara wrote...

JeosDinas wrote...

RShara wrote...Also doesn't meet the definition of what the Reapers are doing, since they are not breeding or trying for some specific criteria .


Your latter statement is actually false here. The specific criteria is not biological in this case, but technological. Furthermore, you're fundamentally ignoring that the goal is, to all intents and purposes, population stabilization. Which is very often the goal of state hunting regulations (as opposed to, say, a more eugenics/farming based goal of controlling traits in the the population). But even then, the Reaper's actions also are done to ensure specifical traits are present and others are not. These things are simply, again, not measured biologically.

Specifically, culling doesn't apply because they are not looking for any specific criteria in the races they hunt to be preserved.  They wipe the slate clean.
They're also not trying to control a population, but wipe it clean.


It's more of a technological cull.

Culling is the process of removing breeding animals from a group
based on specific criteria. This is done either to reinforce certain
desirable characteristics or to remove certain undesirable
characteristics from the group. For livestock and wildlife alike, culling usually implies the killing of the removed animals .


The undisireable charactaristic being the thechnologcal advancement that leads to the creation of synthetics. Leaving the non advanced races to evolve.

#346
RShara

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Also, how does an infinite loop make sense to a machine, or to an organic/machine hybrid? Doing the same thing over and over and over and over again, with no progress and no benefit? (other than if they were doing it to increase their population, which would be a valid, sensical premise)

#347
JeosDinas

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RShara wrote...
Specifically, culling doesn't apply because they are not looking for any specific criteria in the races they hunt to be preserved.  

 

They actually do. The criteria is the population's level of technological advancement. You've ignored this point twice now. And for no state reason that I can discern other than you either simply wanted to or lacked a proper response to it.

RShara wrote...
They're also not trying to control a population, but wipe it clean.


Not galactically. You have to think bigger. Their population pool is significantly larger than you are acknowledging.

#348
Genera1Nemesis

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Maimh wrote...

Could we clarify something here?
Are the Reaper consensus that synthetic will kill all sapient organic life, or all organic life?

Because I find it odd that a group of synthetics should hate organic life so much that they would set out to kill all bacteria.


That's being specific. What would be logical is if they felt threatened by organics in that organics always try to destroy, or threaten their existence; they may go around wiping out all sentient life that could rise up to threaten them.

#349
RShara

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piemanz wrote...

RShara wrote...

JeosDinas wrote...

RShara wrote...Also doesn't meet the definition of what the Reapers are doing, since they are not breeding or trying for some specific criteria .


Your latter statement is actually false here. The specific criteria is not biological in this case, but technological. Furthermore, you're fundamentally ignoring that the goal is, to all intents and purposes, population stabilization. Which is very often the goal of state hunting regulations (as opposed to, say, a more eugenics/farming based goal of controlling traits in the the population). But even then, the Reaper's actions also are done to ensure specifical traits are present and others are not. These things are simply, again, not measured biologically.

Specifically, culling doesn't apply because they are not looking for any specific criteria in the races they hunt to be preserved.  They wipe the slate clean.
They're also not trying to control a population, but wipe it clean.


It's more of a technological cull.

Culling is the process of removing breeding animals from a group
based on specific criteria. This is done either to reinforce certain
desirable characteristics or to remove certain undesirable
characteristics from the group. For livestock and wildlife alike, culling usually implies the killing of the removed animals .


The undisireable charactaristic being the thechnologcal advancement that leads to the creation of synthetics. Leaving the non advanced races to evolve.


But then they shape the evolving races into the exact same traits that they wiped out last time.

#350
Maimh

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RShara wrote...

To kill the organic life that is capable of creating synthetic life.
They leave the yahg alone, for example, even though they are sapient.


No, what I meant was, does the Reapers think that synthetic life would destroy all organic life, down to last bacteria, Or only sapient life?