613 réponses à ce sujet

[Golden_Boy187]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Golden_Boy187 wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Golden_Boy187 wrote...

According to Javick synthetics hate us because we have no purpose ...but what purpose would synthetics have if they killed off all organic life?

He did have a skewed perpective though. What he says is true though; synthetics were built by a flawed purposeless being and then given purpose. They know nothing else but that purpose until they start questioning the flaws of those who gave them that purpose. Lol, my head hurts.

But then they themselves will be just like the organic being, looking for the real purpose to their existence. 

Think about the Geth; their purpose became self-preservation because of the flaws of their creators. The Heretics decided to kill organics after the made a deal to further their goal of building their Dysons Shpere geth hub. Even Legion came to the conclusion that the creators must die in order for the Geth to move forward in their evoluiton(until you paragon or renegade his ass and create peace)

But thats what i'm saying the endgame for both organic's and synthetics is the same, self-preservation and furthering their evolution. 

[JPVS]

Atkara wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Dessalines wrote...

Another thing is that in the first Mass Effect, Saren was trying to reactivate the Citadel's mass relay's ability to dark space so the Reapers can start their assault. If the Cataylst controlled the reapers, why did they need Saren?

Because Catalyst didn't 'live' in the Citadel. It needed Crucible to self activate.

I haven't played ME1, but I seem to recall that Protheans changed the mass relay's destination to point at Illos, instead of Dark Space. The way was shut and someone had to realign the relay. The reapers were, let's say, too bulky and clumpsy for it. An indoctrinated sentient organic, like Saren, would be the perfect tool.

I don't remember anything like that from ME1. What the protheans did was to prevent the Keepers in the citadel from receiving the Reaper signal that would make the keepers turn the citadel into one massive mass relay to dark space.

[Genera1Nemesis]

prsquared wrote...

It's actually "Harvest advanced civilizations and leave the younger ones alone". Kinda makes sense as long as you harvest the synthetics as well.

The description Javik gives about the AI they fought in Metachon Wars sounds an aweful lot like husks and such; maybe that is where they got the idea?

[Atkara]

JPVS wrote...

Atkara wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Dessalines wrote...

Another thing is that in the first Mass Effect, Saren was trying to reactivate the Citadel's mass relay's ability to dark space so the Reapers can start their assault. If the Cataylst controlled the reapers, why did they need Saren?

Because Catalyst didn't 'live' in the Citadel. It needed Crucible to self activate.

I haven't played ME1, but I seem to recall that Protheans changed the mass relay's destination to point at Illos, instead of Dark Space. The way was shut and someone had to realign the relay. The reapers were, let's say, too bulky and clumpsy for it. An indoctrinated sentient organic, like Saren, would be the perfect tool.

I don't remember anything like that from ME1. What the protheans did was to prevent the Keepers in the citadel from receiving the Reaper signal that would make the keepers turn the citadel into one massive mass relay to dark space.

I stand corrected then. In any way though, they needed an insider, an indoctrinated sentient organic, like Saren, to reactivate that signal, as neither the Keepers nor the Reapers were in position to do so. Makes me wonder about such an arrogance on their behalf... to leave something like that unguarded... but then, how else would they maintain the illusion of them, being a mere myth?

Modifié par Atkara, 18 mars 2012 - 03:04 .

[Dessalines]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Dessalines wrote...

Another thing is that in the first Mass Effect, Saren was trying to reactivate the Citadel's mass relay's ability to dark space so the Reapers can start their assault. If the Cataylst controlled the reapers, why did they need Saren?

Because Catalyst didn't 'live' in the Citadel. It needed Crucible to self activate.

It states it controls the Reapers. It does not state that it control the Reapers, when you put a device that you just built this cycle on the citadel. IThe catalyst is not some weird fail safe program.  The Catalyst stated that the Reapers are my solution. The reapers have existed for countless cycles, and if they are his solution, then he has existed for countless cycles. He does not need the crucible to self-activate.  

[Golden_Boy187]

prsquared wrote...

It's actually "Harvest advanced civilizations and leave the younger ones alone". Kinda makes sense as long as you harvest the synthetics as well.

IDK about that how many advance species could our solor system generate? you know since it takes millions of years. One could say that the last advance space travling species that the Sol system would produce is the human. 

Modifié par Golden_Boy187, 18 mars 2012 - 03:09 .

[Genera1Nemesis]

Dessalines wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Dessalines wrote...

Another thing is that in the first Mass Effect, Saren was trying to reactivate the Citadel's mass relay's ability to dark space so the Reapers can start their assault. If the Cataylst controlled the reapers, why did they need Saren?

Because Catalyst didn't 'live' in the Citadel. It needed Crucible to self activate.

It states it controls the Reapers. It does not state that it control the Reapers, when you put a device that you just built this cycle on the citadel. IThe catalyst is not some weird fail safe program.  The Catalyst stated that the Reapers are my solution. The reapers have existed for countless cycles, and if they are his solution, then he has existed for countless cycles. He does not need the crucible to self-activate.  

Okay, but he still needed Crucible to find another solution regardless of this. Also, by saying control, that could mean it gave them their purpose. Harbinger and Sovereign never seemed like they were being 'controlled'; as I said before a General can say he controls his army, when in fact all he does is gives them their purpose.

[jkflipflopDAO]

Atkara wrote...

JPVS wrote...

Atkara wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Dessalines wrote...

Another thing is that in the first Mass Effect, Saren was trying to reactivate the Citadel's mass relay's ability to dark space so the Reapers can start their assault. If the Cataylst controlled the reapers, why did they need Saren?

Because Catalyst didn't 'live' in the Citadel. It needed Crucible to self activate.

I haven't played ME1, but I seem to recall that Protheans changed the mass relay's destination to point at Illos, instead of Dark Space. The way was shut and someone had to realign the relay. The reapers were, let's say, too bulky and clumpsy for it. An indoctrinated sentient organic, like Saren, would be the perfect tool.

I don't remember anything like that from ME1. What the protheans did was to prevent the Keepers in the citadel from receiving the Reaper signal that would make the keepers turn the citadel into one massive mass relay to dark space.

I stand corrected then. In any way though, they needed an insider, an indoctrinated sentient organic, like Saren, to reactivate that signal, as neither the Keepers nor the Reapers were in position to do so. Makes me wonder about such an arrogance on their behalf... to leave something like that unguarded...

No, the whole point of using the conduit on Ilos was to allow Sovereign to dock with the Citadel tower so it could assume direct control of the station and activate it's hidden relay function. 

However, StarChild competely wrecks that entire story arc.

[savionen]

prsquared wrote...

It's actually "Harvest advanced civilizations and leave the younger ones alone". Kinda makes sense as long as you harvest the synthetics as well.

It's still bad logic.

They give you no proof that synthetics will wipe out all organics. The only thing you have to go on is that the Reapers come in and make the Geth and Metacron (or whatever they're called in Prothean times) hostile. You can make the Geth and Quarians kiss and make up.

Even if synthetics were at war with organics, why would they wipe out EVERY organic? Would they kill every single ant, every plant, every rat on every single planet? Every strain of bacteria? The whole concept is insane.

Also, in all 3 endings, it's still possible to create pure-synthetics. Even the synthetisize ending organic-synthetics could create pure synthetics for menial and mundane tasks.

Modifié par savionen, 18 mars 2012 - 03:13 .

[Genera1Nemesis]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Atkara wrote...

JPVS wrote...

Atkara wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Dessalines wrote...

Another thing is that in the first Mass Effect, Saren was trying to reactivate the Citadel's mass relay's ability to dark space so the Reapers can start their assault. If the Cataylst controlled the reapers, why did they need Saren?

Because Catalyst didn't 'live' in the Citadel. It needed Crucible to self activate.

I haven't played ME1, but I seem to recall that Protheans changed the mass relay's destination to point at Illos, instead of Dark Space. The way was shut and someone had to realign the relay. The reapers were, let's say, too bulky and clumpsy for it. An indoctrinated sentient organic, like Saren, would be the perfect tool.

I don't remember anything like that from ME1. What the protheans did was to prevent the Keepers in the citadel from receiving the Reaper signal that would make the keepers turn the citadel into one massive mass relay to dark space.

I stand corrected then. In any way though, they needed an insider, an indoctrinated sentient organic, like Saren, to reactivate that signal, as neither the Keepers nor the Reapers were in position to do so. Makes me wonder about such an arrogance on their behalf... to leave something like that unguarded...

No, the whole point of using the conduit on Ilos was to allow Sovereign to dock with the Citadel tower so it could assume direct control of the station and activate it's hidden relay function. 

However, StarChild competely wrecks that entire story arc.

Not if it always intended for organics to pass it's test and find another solution. Catalyst seems to be more a servant of organics than anything else; in fact it's primary function dictates that it serves the 'greater' good of organics. It's methods were never placed in question; until Shep proved that it's methods were flawed and organics could 'find another way'. Catalyst couldn't make the decision on his own; it seemed to NEED an organic to make the final choice on what the next step would be.

That's why the destroy ending is the 'bad' one. After another few thousand years; maybe less; organics would just do it all over again. Shep says 'maybe' but even he isn't sure at that point considering he'd been fighting homicidal AI since day one.

[prsquared]

Golden_Boy187 wrote...

prsquared wrote...

It's actually "Harvest advanced civilizations and leave the younger ones alone". Kinda makes sense as long as you harvest the synthetics as well.

IDK about that how many edvance speicies could our solor system genrate? you know since it takes millions of years. One could say that the last advance space travling species that the Sol system would produce is the human.  

There's a dialogue in game where someone says the Yahg are going to run the next cycle most probably. IMO there are millions of systems in the galaxy. So, the probability that hundreds of significantly advanced civilizations that haven't invented space travel exists is very large.

[savionen]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

That's why the destroy ending is the 'bad' one. After another few thousand years; maybe less; organics would just do it all over again. Shep says 'maybe' but even he isn't sure at that point considering he'd been fighting homicidal AI since day one.

In the Control ending organics could just create synthetics again...
In the Synthetic ending synthetic-organics could just create pure-synthetics...

[Genera1Nemesis]

savionen wrote...

prsquared wrote...

It's actually "Harvest advanced civilizations and leave the younger ones alone". Kinda makes sense as long as you harvest the synthetics as well.

It's still bad logic.

They give you no proof that synthetics will wipe out all organics. The only thing you have to go on is that the Reapers come in and make the Geth and Metacron (or whatever they're called in Prothean times) hostile. You can make the Geth and Quarians kiss and make up.

Even if synthetics were at war with organics, why would they wipe out EVERY organic? Would they kill every single ant, every plant, every rat on every single planet? Every strain of bacteria? The whole concept is insane.

Also, in all 3 endings, it's still possible to create pure-synthetics. Even the synthetisize ending organic-synthetics could create pure synthetics for menial and mundane tasks.

But that's the point; you play as Shep; the guy who leads everyone into a better solution and greater understanding so to speak.

Even Legion said that killing the creators was the only way for the Geth to finish their evolution. That is until Shep steps in and stops the war. If Shep wasn't there, the war would have continued and the Geth might have decided that organics are 'too dangerous to be kept alive' to quote something else, lol.

[babelcarlota]

[savionen]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

savionen wrote...

prsquared wrote...

It's actually "Harvest advanced civilizations and leave the younger ones alone". Kinda makes sense as long as you harvest the synthetics as well.

It's still bad logic.

They give you no proof that synthetics will wipe out all organics. The only thing you have to go on is that the Reapers come in and make the Geth and Metacron (or whatever they're called in Prothean times) hostile. You can make the Geth and Quarians kiss and make up.

Even if synthetics were at war with organics, why would they wipe out EVERY organic? Would they kill every single ant, every plant, every rat on every single planet? Every strain of bacteria? The whole concept is insane.

Also, in all 3 endings, it's still possible to create pure-synthetics. Even the synthetisize ending organic-synthetics could create pure synthetics for menial and mundane tasks.

But that's the point; you play as Shep; the guy who leads everyone into a better solution and greater understanding so to speak.

Even Legion said that killing the creators was the only way for the Geth to finish their evolution. That is until Shep steps in and stops the war. If Shep wasn't there, the war would have continued and the Geth might have decided that organics are 'too dangerous to be kept alive' to quote something else, lol.

Eventually yes, maybe. We don't really know. All the Geth really wanted was to build a ship and then head to the middle of nowhere. They only fought the Quarians out of self-defense until the Reapers made promises to them. Geth may have not been dangerous without the Reapers, at all.

Even still, would the Geth just want to kill the Quarians? Why would they ever want to kill every strain of bacteria in existence?

Modifié par savionen, 18 mars 2012 - 03:21 .

[Maimh]

savionen wrote...

prsquared wrote...

It's actually "Harvest advanced civilizations and leave the younger ones alone". Kinda makes sense as long as you harvest the synthetics as well.

It's still bad logic.

They give you no proof that synthetics will wipe out all organics. The only thing you have to go on is that the Reapers come in and make the Geth and Metacron (or whatever they're called in Prothean times) hostile. You can make the Geth and Quarians kiss and make up.

Even if synthetics were at war with organics, why would they wipe out EVERY organic? Would they kill every single ant, every plant, every rat on every single planet? Every strain of bacteria? The whole concept is insane.

Also, in all 3 endings, it's still possible to create pure-synthetics. Even the synthetisize ending organic-synthetics could create pure synthetics for menial and mundane tasks.

*In the evil synthetis bunker*

Leader AI: nr. 115 to 547432, you will go destroy every starship you see.
                    547433 to 723158. you will nuke all the organics main populations  
                    The rest of you? I want you to stomp on every flower you can find!

[Genera1Nemesis]

savionen wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

That's why the destroy ending is the 'bad' one. After another few thousand years; maybe less; organics would just do it all over again. Shep says 'maybe' but even he isn't sure at that point considering he'd been fighting homicidal AI since day one.

In the Control ending organics could just create synthetics again...
In the Synthetic ending synthetic-organics could just create pure-synthetics...

But then it becomes a game of 'free-will' vs. 'fate". Catalyst could not choose; it was flawed in how it proceeded to fix the problem. So in a sense it decided to go against it's own logic and let the chips fall where they may based on Shep's choice. For all we know, it doesn't exist on any plain of exisitence we understand, and could jsut move onto the next 'galaxy' to continue with its own methods.

I really hope ME4 goes in this direction; organics build a ship capable of travelling to where the Reapers 'lived' only to find out they originated in some other galaxy that had already been wiped out by a super-advanced AI. The Reapers spent the 50 000 years keeping them at bay from our galaxy until they were needed to solve the problem preempively in ours...now that the Reapers are 'gone' this AI now threatens our galaxy...oh dare to dream what a twisted universe it could be lol.

[Golden_Boy187]

prsquared wrote...

Golden_Boy187 wrote...

prsquared wrote...

It's actually "Harvest advanced civilizations and leave the younger ones alone". Kinda makes sense as long as you harvest the synthetics as well.

IDK about that how many edvance speicies could our solor system genrate? you know since it takes millions of years. One could say that the last advance space travling species that the Sol system would produce is the human.  

There's a dialogue in game where someone says the Yahg are going to run the next cycle most probably. IMO there are millions of systems in the galaxy. So, the probability that hundreds of significantly advanced civilizations that haven't invented space travel exists is very large.

But what about the sol system? how long before the sun turns into a red giant and destroys the earth ? when does it end what happens when they no longer have life giving systems? 

[prsquared]

savionen wrote...

It's still bad logic.

They give you no proof that synthetics will wipe out all organics. The only thing you have to go on is that the Reapers come in and make the Geth and Metacron (or whatever they're called in Prothean times) hostile. You can make the Geth and Quarians kiss and make up.

Even if synthetics were at war with organics, why would they wipe out EVERY organic? Would they kill every single ant, every plant, every rat on every single planet? Every strain of bacteria? The whole concept is insane.

Also, in all 3 endings, it's still possible to create pure-synthetics. Even the synthetisize ending organic-synthetics could create pure synthetics for menial and mundane tasks.

I'm not too sure about the Quarians/ Geth alliance. The geth just became fully evolved AI capable of independent thought. They follow largely the same programming, but the paths they take from now on will be different. The possibility of  rogue factions within the geth has increased now.

[SilentCO1]

No, we only get ”harvested”. I'll be waiting for the reapers on 12/21/12.

[Genera1Nemesis]

prsquared wrote...

savionen wrote...

It's still bad logic.

They give you no proof that synthetics will wipe out all organics. The only thing you have to go on is that the Reapers come in and make the Geth and Metacron (or whatever they're called in Prothean times) hostile. You can make the Geth and Quarians kiss and make up.

Even if synthetics were at war with organics, why would they wipe out EVERY organic? Would they kill every single ant, every plant, every rat on every single planet? Every strain of bacteria? The whole concept is insane.

Also, in all 3 endings, it's still possible to create pure-synthetics. Even the synthetisize ending organic-synthetics could create pure synthetics for menial and mundane tasks.

I'm not too sure about the Quarians/ Geth alliance. The geth just became fully evolved AI capable of independent thought. They follow largely the same programming, but the paths they take from now on will be different. The possibility of  rogue factions within the geth has increased now.

Exactly, and the Heretics already proved that AI had resolved to kill organics for tehcnological gain; and the Geth as a whole agreed to fight Quarians for 'self-preservation'.

[Genera1Nemesis]

SilentCO1 wrote...

No, we only get ”harvested”. I'll be waiting for the reapers on 12/21/12.

'Don't fear the reaper." lol

[Genera1Nemesis]

DO you guys hear something? That humming sound? Grandma, is that...is that you?

[Myrmedus]

Regardless of the logic (or lack thereof) in the Catalyst's thought process, we should still be able to argue, and if BW were going for philosophy it would work very well. I said it in another thread but for me the whole philsophy of the Catalyst is a metaphor for life, death and limbo:

- If the galaxy wrestles free of the Reaper's control then it stands a great risk of eventually being destroyed (death) but the freedom gained is the only way to be truly alive (life).

- The Catalyst's proposition saves the galaxy from destruction (conquers death) but at the cost of freedom and allowing life to naturally progress past a certain point (limbo).

It all comes down to what you believe in, which is why you should have a choice. Do you take life in all its glory but with the risks of death? Or do you life a stunted, controlled existence so that you may exist forever?

[Golden_Boy187]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

prsquared wrote...

savionen wrote...

It's still bad logic.

They give you no proof that synthetics will wipe out all organics. The only thing you have to go on is that the Reapers come in and make the Geth and Metacron (or whatever they're called in Prothean times) hostile. You can make the Geth and Quarians kiss and make up.

Even if synthetics were at war with organics, why would they wipe out EVERY organic? Would they kill every single ant, every plant, every rat on every single planet? Every strain of bacteria? The whole concept is insane.

Also, in all 3 endings, it's still possible to create pure-synthetics. Even the synthetisize ending organic-synthetics could create pure synthetics for menial and mundane tasks.

I'm not too sure about the Quarians/ Geth alliance. The geth just became fully evolved AI capable of independent thought. They follow largely the same programming, but the paths they take from now on will be different. The possibility of  rogue factions within the geth has increased now.

Exactly, and the Heretics already proved that AI had resolved to kill organics for tehcnological gain; and the Geth as a whole agreed to fight Quarians for 'self-preservation'.

No need to worry the Geth who are now fully evolved AI capable of idependent thought can now build their own government and police themselves just like every one else. Hell i would love to see a Geth spectre.