613 réponses à ce sujet

[Golden_Boy187]

I wonder what happens in 3 to 5 billion years when Andromeda & the Milky Way merge. Could be mass effect 4

[Halo Quea]

KylieDog wrote...

One questions why the Reapers don't only kill synthetics, if the reasoning is preserving organics.

I already posed this question, still haven't gotten a good answer from the people defending these endings.

If you think about it, the Geth are actually improved by the Reapers, they're made more intelligent and individualistic.  Organics on the other hand are turned into mindless abominations.   It doesn't make sense that the Reapers improve the machines and turn the organics into monsters.

It totally flies in the face of their own logic.   

[Golden_Boy187]

Halo Quea wrote...

KylieDog wrote...

One questions why the Reapers don't only kill synthetics, if the reasoning is preserving organics.

I already posed this question, still haven't gotten a good answer from the people defending these endings.

If you think about it, the Geth are actually improved by the Reapers, they're made more intelligent and individualistic.  Organics on the other hand are turned into mindless abominations.   It doesn't make sense that the Reapers improve the machines and turn the organics into monsters.

It totally flies in the face of their own logic.   

pretty much. 

[Genera1Nemesis]

Halo Quea wrote...

KylieDog wrote...

One questions why the Reapers don't only kill synthetics, if the reasoning is preserving organics.

I already posed this question, still haven't gotten a good answer from the people defending these endings.

If you think about it, the Geth are actually improved by the Reapers, they're made more intelligent and individualistic.  Organics on the other hand are turned into mindless abominations.   It doesn't make sense that the Reapers improve the machines and turn the organics into monsters.

It totally flies in the face of their own logic.   

The Geth were being used as cannon-fodder for the Reapers; nothing more. The reapers gave them a code to make them adapt better and be better at being cannon-fodder. Legion disrupts this code and changes it so that the Reapers can't just overwrite the geth when they become useless to them.

[SimKoning]

Kelgair wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

"You don't know that, considering that since the Geth's creation organic beings always tried to destroy them out of fear, when the Geth finish the dyson sphere and upload to create their "true" AI, that AI might assume that all organic life is hostile by default and pre-empt any attempts at destroying it."

A Dyson sphere is the size of a solar system, now imagine millions of Dyson spheres linked together by a FTL network. I doubt they would be threatened by organic species running around in rockets anymore than you would feel threatened by a fly buzzing around your head. I doubt they would they be inclined to wipe out every squishy critter they come across anymore than we would go on some campaign to wipe out all bacteria on Earth. What we worry about are the few species of bacteria that do pose a threat to us once in a while, but not ALL of them.

You're presuming the Geth would be able to form mutliple Dyson spheres. As far as the Geth have known there's always been a swarm of flies that have attempted to destroy it since it's creation, if they wanted to make multple Dyson spheres it would only be logical to destroy all flies and the possibility of flies so that they could recreate their spheres in peace. Especially after their creators destroy their first attempt at making a Sphere. You seem to be arguing from a point past what's currently known in the ME universe.

Yes I'm presuming that, since there are probably 300 billions stars in this galaxy that they can build them around, with each one being the dimater of our solar system or greater. Hell, they could even build them around black holes and have a source of energy that would probably last hundreds of billions of years. Also, if you are bothered by a fly, do you just swat that one fly, or do you raise an army to exterminate all the flies on Earth, plus all flying insect species in gereral, since they have the "potential" of biting you? 

Modifié par SimKoning, 18 mars 2012 - 04:49 .

[Bobamelius]

SimKoning wrote...
Even if Space-Ghost-Child-Hitler-AI-God's claim that some super AI will eventually cause the mass extinction of biological life in a galaxy is valid, then so what? Preventing that from happening would be like some alien species coming to Earth 500 million years ago to prevent Cambrian fauna from evolving into more complex animal species, which of course, would be insane. Not to mention that even if some AI managed to wipe out all the *current* life, that doesn’t mean abiogenesis would cease to happen. There would be new life forms forming almost as often as new star systems. Is this insane AI going to sift through billions of stars to stamp out self replicating polymers any where it sees it? THIS IS STUPID LOL

Yes it is.

My point is the Catalyst's stated purpose of preserving organic life via culling is flawed either because a) he can't do it universe-wide, his initial assumption about omnicidal AI is false,

OR

the Catalys is right and his 'preservation' occurs throughout the universe, in which case your efforts in Mass Effect are pointless as a bucketload of additional Reapers will soon be here to finish the culling, set the relay/Citadel system back up and take preventative measure to prevent more failed cullings in the future.

TL;DR everything is stupid and pointless.

[TearForger1]

Guys. The Starchild was LYING! Its the only thing that makes sense.

[Genera1Nemesis]

SimKoning wrote...

Kelgair wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

"You don't know that, considering that since the Geth's creation organic beings always tried to destroy them out of fear, when the Geth finish the dyson sphere and upload to create their "true" AI, that AI might assume that all organic life is hostile by default and pre-empt any attempts at destroying it."

A Dyson sphere is the size of a solar system, now imagine millions of Dyson spheres linked together by a FTL network. I doubt they would be threatened by organic species running around in rockets anymore than you would feel threatened by a fly buzzing around your head. I doubt they would they be inclined to wipe out every squishy critter they come across anymore than we would go on some campaign to wipe out all bacteria on Earth. What we worry about are the few species of bacteria that do pose a threat to us once in a while, but not ALL of them.

You're presuming the Geth would be able to form mutliple Dyson spheres. As far as the Geth have known there's always been a swarm of flies that have attempted to destroy it since it's creation, if they wanted to make multple Dyson spheres it would only be logical to destroy all flies and the possibility of flies so that they could recreate their spheres in peace. Especially after their creators destroy their first attempt at making a Sphere. You seem to be arguing from a point past what's currently known in the ME universe.

Yes I'm presuming that, since there are probably 300 billions stars in this galaxy that they can build them around, with each one being the dimater of our solar system or greater. Hell, they could even build them around black holes and have a source of energy that would probably last hundreds of billions of years. Also, if you are bothered by a fly, do you just swat that one fly, or do you raise an army to exterminate all the flies on Earth, plus all flying insect species in gereral, since they have the "potential" of biting you? 

Biting you is hardly the same as destroying you. Our own history has shown that humans will wipe out other humans who threaten their way of life, or threaten their culture for that matter. Why wouldn't an AI come to the same very conclusion? And since the evolve much faster than we ever could, synthetics or AI would have more than enough capability within a reasonably short life span to wipe everything out. (see Terminator; they build laser-rifles and such while we were still firing bullets)

[Dr. Megaverse]

 Just in case no one has mentioned this...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity

[SimKoning]

TearForger1 wrote...

Guys. The Starchild was LYING! Its the only thing that makes sense.

I would rather they just remove  the "starchild" completely, but if they are goin to keep it in the game, then maybe they can change it to where it was just Harbinger getting in his head. As far as the "real" Reapers go, just leave them as arrogant space tyrants that think they are the end all be all of life in the unviverse and that all other life forms should be assimilated by them, or serve them. 

[baudrahn]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread but I'll ask my questions anyway. To say I didn't understand the ending would be an understatement.

Why were the Geth, EDI and all synthetic life destroyed (dependent on my choice)? Was it because they contained Reaper tech? Did EDI contain Reaper tech? Was all technology wiped out?

According to the Starchild, the Created turn on their Creators. According to the game, EDI and Joker are spooning, the Geth never tried to destroy their Creators except when they were under the influence of the Reapers in ME1. In ME3 they turn to the Reapers in a panic because their Creators are destroying them. Even in ME1 there is an AI who is simply trying to escape and only kills in order to survive. I believe I killed it. According to EDI, AIs can lie.

I suppose you could argue it's true because the Reapers create us thru influencing our evolution and then do indeed try to destroy us.

Why was there no longer spaceflight? All species had achieved spaceflight prior to encountering Reaper technology.

What happens to all the aliens on earth? Or, was the brief scene of an handful of aliens indicating all aliens were destroyed when defending earth?

For me, it's not the three button choice or, whether Shep lived or died, although if anyone were to survive I could believe Shep surviving, it's all the other questions that went unanswered.

Even if it was all an indocrination scene, which, sadly, I suspect is accurate, it doesn't make sense.

Not to mention but I will, according to the game, you destroy a ME relay and wipe out a galaxy. I presume they were disabled in a less damaging way seeing the Normandy crashes but is not obliterated. That was the big point in The Arrival, had to make this morally horrible decision or fail. Just one more example of all those choices you have.

Also, wth was my final push companion doing on the Normandy? Didn't give their all, I guess.

On other thing, I didn't ship Tali but to find out Quarians look just like humans does seem a little lazy.

I've vented my disappointments. Thanks.

Edit: Spacing.

Modifié par baudrahn, 18 mars 2012 - 05:03 .

[Genera1Nemesis]

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

 Just in case no one has mentioned this...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity

Thanks for that. Hopefully that will help people at least see the merits of where Bioware was going with this.

[SimKoning]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

Kelgair wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

"You don't know that, considering that since the Geth's creation organic beings always tried to destroy them out of fear, when the Geth finish the dyson sphere and upload to create their "true" AI, that AI might assume that all organic life is hostile by default and pre-empt any attempts at destroying it."

A Dyson sphere is the size of a solar system, now imagine millions of Dyson spheres linked together by a FTL network. I doubt they would be threatened by organic species running around in rockets anymore than you would feel threatened by a fly buzzing around your head. I doubt they would they be inclined to wipe out every squishy critter they come across anymore than we would go on some campaign to wipe out all bacteria on Earth. What we worry about are the few species of bacteria that do pose a threat to us once in a while, but not ALL of them.

You're presuming the Geth would be able to form mutliple Dyson spheres. As far as the Geth have known there's always been a swarm of flies that have attempted to destroy it since it's creation, if they wanted to make multple Dyson spheres it would only be logical to destroy all flies and the possibility of flies so that they could recreate their spheres in peace. Especially after their creators destroy their first attempt at making a Sphere. You seem to be arguing from a point past what's currently known in the ME universe.

Yes I'm presuming that, since there are probably 300 billions stars in this galaxy that they can build them around, with each one being the dimater of our solar system or greater. Hell, they could even build them around black holes and have a source of energy that would probably last hundreds of billions of years. Also, if you are bothered by a fly, do you just swat that one fly, or do you raise an army to exterminate all the flies on Earth, plus all flying insect species in gereral, since they have the "potential" of biting you? 

Biting you is hardly the same as destroying you. Our own history has shown that humans will wipe out other humans who threaten their way of life, or threaten their culture for that matter. Why wouldn't an AI come to the same very conclusion? And since the evolve much faster than we ever could, synthetics or AI would have more than enough capability within a reasonably short life span to wipe everything out. (see Terminator; they build laser-rifles and such while we were still firing bullets)

You are missing my point: the galaxy is a BIG place. Sure, I can see a "synthetic" species destroying a parent species once in a while, but would it be rational for them to try and stamp out every other thinking species in the galaxy? As I said before, why would organic species be their only threat? What about cyborgs, replicator swarms, Viral AIs etc... they aren't going to be the only kids on the block so to speak. It would be like us going around and killing every species on Earth that poses a potential threat to human life... I think we have better things to do.  

[Genera1Nemesis]

In 1965, I. J. Good first wrote of an "intelligence explosion", suggesting that if machines could even slightly surpass human intellect, they could improve their own designs in ways unforeseen by their designers, and thus recursively augment themselves into far greater intelligences. The first such improvements might be small, but as the machine became more intelligent it would become better at becoming more intelligent, which could lead to a cascade of self-improvements and a sudden surge to superintelligence (or a singularity).

From the above link, just thought it sounded a heck of a lot like EDI's evolution throughout the game.

[Subject M]

Perhaps the Catalyst is a sole survivor of one of the early devastating wars, an AI that was somehow "contaminated" by organic, became "sympathetic" to them, viewed their total destruction as a waste of resources and information, and through this line of thought arrived at a new conclusion on what should be done

[Kelgair]

SimKoning wrote...

Kelgair wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

"You don't know that, considering that since the Geth's creation organic beings always tried to destroy them out of fear, when the Geth finish the dyson sphere and upload to create their "true" AI, that AI might assume that all organic life is hostile by default and pre-empt any attempts at destroying it."

A Dyson sphere is the size of a solar system, now imagine millions of Dyson spheres linked together by a FTL network. I doubt they would be threatened by organic species running around in rockets anymore than you would feel threatened by a fly buzzing around your head. I doubt they would they be inclined to wipe out every squishy critter they come across anymore than we would go on some campaign to wipe out all bacteria on Earth. What we worry about are the few species of bacteria that do pose a threat to us once in a while, but not ALL of them.

You're presuming the Geth would be able to form mutliple Dyson spheres. As far as the Geth have known there's always been a swarm of flies that have attempted to destroy it since it's creation, if they wanted to make multple Dyson spheres it would only be logical to destroy all flies and the possibility of flies so that they could recreate their spheres in peace. Especially after their creators destroy their first attempt at making a Sphere. You seem to be arguing from a point past what's currently known in the ME universe.

Yes I'm presuming that, since there are probably 300 billions stars in this galaxy that they can build them around, with each one being the dimater of our solar system or greater. Hell, they could even build them around black holes and have a source of energy that would probably last hundreds of billions of years. Also, if you are bothered by a fly, do you just swat that one fly, or do you raise an army to exterminate all the flies on Earth, plus all flying insect species in gereral, since they have the "potential" of biting you? 

If the flies had already tried to kill me once, damn near succeded, and continuously attack me or my offspring? Yes I might consider exterminating all flies just so I could live in peace. That's a metaphor which doesn't apply here since we are obviously not flies to AI. We can easily destroy the Geth, the AI on the Citadel, the newborn AI on the moon, and the hybrid AI that was Overlord. So really we aren't flies to any AI in the ME universe, and justifiably are dangerous to their existence.

[SimKoning]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

In 1965, I. J. Good first wrote of an "intelligence explosion", suggesting that if machines could even slightly surpass human intellect, they could improve their own designs in ways unforeseen by their designers, and thus recursively augment themselves into far greater intelligences. The first such improvements might be small, but as the machine became more intelligent it would become better at becoming more intelligent, which could lead to a cascade of self-improvements and a sudden surge to superintelligence (or a singularity).

From the above link, just thought it sounded a heck of a lot like EDI's evolution throughout the game.

Yes, there has been many science fiction novels written about the subject. Heck, there is a whole world building project built around an idea that pretty much refutes everything that came out of Ghost kids mouth > http://www.orionsarm.com/

I also suggest you check out Iain M. Banks Culture series > http://en.wikipedia....iki/The_Culture

All of this reminds me of why I hate the ending so much...

[Genera1Nemesis]

SimKoning wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

Kelgair wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

"You don't know that, considering that since the Geth's creation organic beings always tried to destroy them out of fear, when the Geth finish the dyson sphere and upload to create their "true" AI, that AI might assume that all organic life is hostile by default and pre-empt any attempts at destroying it."

A Dyson sphere is the size of a solar system, now imagine millions of Dyson spheres linked together by a FTL network. I doubt they would be threatened by organic species running around in rockets anymore than you would feel threatened by a fly buzzing around your head. I doubt they would they be inclined to wipe out every squishy critter they come across anymore than we would go on some campaign to wipe out all bacteria on Earth. What we worry about are the few species of bacteria that do pose a threat to us once in a while, but not ALL of them.

You're presuming the Geth would be able to form mutliple Dyson spheres. As far as the Geth have known there's always been a swarm of flies that have attempted to destroy it since it's creation, if they wanted to make multple Dyson spheres it would only be logical to destroy all flies and the possibility of flies so that they could recreate their spheres in peace. Especially after their creators destroy their first attempt at making a Sphere. You seem to be arguing from a point past what's currently known in the ME universe.

Yes I'm presuming that, since there are probably 300 billions stars in this galaxy that they can build them around, with each one being the dimater of our solar system or greater. Hell, they could even build them around black holes and have a source of energy that would probably last hundreds of billions of years. Also, if you are bothered by a fly, do you just swat that one fly, or do you raise an army to exterminate all the flies on Earth, plus all flying insect species in gereral, since they have the "potential" of biting you? 

Biting you is hardly the same as destroying you. Our own history has shown that humans will wipe out other humans who threaten their way of life, or threaten their culture for that matter. Why wouldn't an AI come to the same very conclusion? And since the evolve much faster than we ever could, synthetics or AI would have more than enough capability within a reasonably short life span to wipe everything out. (see Terminator; they build laser-rifles and such while we were still firing bullets)

You are missing my point: the galaxy is a BIG place. Sure, I can see a "synthetic" species destroying a parent species once in a while, but would it be rational for them to try and stamp out every other thinking species in the galaxy? As I said before, why would organic species be their only threat? What about cyborgs, replicator swarms, Viral AIs etc... they aren't going to be the only kids on the block so to speak. It would be like us going around and killing every species on Earth that poses a potential threat to human life... I think we have better things to do.  

No, instead we dominate or control them because we can. Just by existing, humans have stunted the natural evolution of all other life on this planet. When we percieve a threat, we kill it or keep it at bay. (wolves for example)

If humans were never to have existed, it is quite possible that another animal might have evolved intelligently. We can never really know this because organic life is quite random (chaotic as it were) and too many factors are involved in how a species evolves.

Synthetics are  not bound by this law,and can evolve themselves however they so choose.

Modifié par Genera1Nemesis, 18 mars 2012 - 05:09 .

[In Exile]

alek2702 wrote...
Actually it's: Create synthetic-organic hybrids to harvest/ascend advanced organics to make sure uncontrolled synthetics don't kill ALL organic life.

Somehow most of the whiners forget about these details....

That's the same kind of stupid. Because there are two options: (1) organic life is finite. If organic life is finite, at some point, there will be no more organics. The reapers would have reaped them all. End result? No organic life. How is that different from synthetics killing all organic life? Right. It isn't. (2) organic life is infinite, and no matter how much of it dies there will always be more. In this case, what the reapers are doing is poinless. By definition, synethics will never be able to kill organic life.

No matter how you try to spin the ball of stupid, it remains stupid.

[In Exile]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...
Oh I know; that's why said it just uses the same basic logic as Catalyst; not anywhere near the same lol. It's just that this thread is about the motives being silly or illogical; I just wanted to point out a great moment in literature where that logic is considered to be amazing, lol.

It's not the same logic, though.

Their goal is to save all other life on Earth. From that standpoint, humanity is the cause of the threat to all life on Earth. So they're going to kill humanity.

The actual parallel would be if the Reapers would genocide all synethic life to save organic life, i.e. what people are arguing the not-stupid conclusion would be.

[Genera1Nemesis]

In Exile wrote...

alek2702 wrote...
Actually it's: Create synthetic-organic hybrids to harvest/ascend advanced organics to make sure uncontrolled synthetics don't kill ALL organic life.

Somehow most of the whiners forget about these details....

That's the same kind of stupid. Because there are two options: (1) organic life is finite. If organic life is finite, at some point, there will be no more organics. The reapers would have reaped them all. End result? No organic life. How is that different from synthetics killing all organic life? Right. It isn't. (2) organic life is infinite, and no matter how much of it dies there will always be more. In this case, what the reapers are doing is poinless. By definition, synethics will never be able to kill organic life.

No matter how you try to spin the ball of stupid, it remains stupid.

The Reapers do not reap them all. Otherwise humans would have been harvested 50 000 years and the Reapers would be exactly what they defending against. You're argument rings of half-truth.

[Genera1Nemesis]

In Exile wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...
Oh I know; that's why said it just uses the same basic logic as Catalyst; not anywhere near the same lol. It's just that this thread is about the motives being silly or illogical; I just wanted to point out a great moment in literature where that logic is considered to be amazing, lol.

It's not the same logic, though.

Their goal is to save all other life on Earth. From that standpoint, humanity is the cause of the threat to all life on Earth. So they're going to kill humanity.

The actual parallel would be if the Reapers would genocide all synethic life to save organic life, i.e. what people are arguing the not-stupid conclusion would be.

It is exactly the same underlying logic; they want to wipe out humanity to preserve lesser species. Just like what the reapers do. Humans were that lesser species 50 000 years ago. Now we are one of the advanced ones that threaten our own existence and the existence of the remaining lesser species.

Modifié par Genera1Nemesis, 18 mars 2012 - 05:19 .

[SimKoning]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

Kelgair wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

"You don't know that, considering that since the Geth's creation organic beings always tried to destroy them out of fear, when the Geth finish the dyson sphere and upload to create their "true" AI, that AI might assume that all organic life is hostile by default and pre-empt any attempts at destroying it."

A Dyson sphere is the size of a solar system, now imagine millions of Dyson spheres linked together by a FTL network. I doubt they would be threatened by organic species running around in rockets anymore than you would feel threatened by a fly buzzing around your head. I doubt they would they be inclined to wipe out every squishy critter they come across anymore than we would go on some campaign to wipe out all bacteria on Earth. What we worry about are the few species of bacteria that do pose a threat to us once in a while, but not ALL of them.

You're presuming the Geth would be able to form mutliple Dyson spheres. As far as the Geth have known there's always been a swarm of flies that have attempted to destroy it since it's creation, if they wanted to make multple Dyson spheres it would only be logical to destroy all flies and the possibility of flies so that they could recreate their spheres in peace. Especially after their creators destroy their first attempt at making a Sphere. You seem to be arguing from a point past what's currently known in the ME universe.

Yes I'm presuming that, since there are probably 300 billions stars in this galaxy that they can build them around, with each one being the dimater of our solar system or greater. Hell, they could even build them around black holes and have a source of energy that would probably last hundreds of billions of years. Also, if you are bothered by a fly, do you just swat that one fly, or do you raise an army to exterminate all the flies on Earth, plus all flying insect species in gereral, since they have the "potential" of biting you? 

Biting you is hardly the same as destroying you. Our own history has shown that humans will wipe out other humans who threaten their way of life, or threaten their culture for that matter. Why wouldn't an AI come to the same very conclusion? And since the evolve much faster than we ever could, synthetics or AI would have more than enough capability within a reasonably short life span to wipe everything out. (see Terminator; they build laser-rifles and such while we were still firing bullets)

You are missing my point: the galaxy is a BIG place. Sure, I can see a "synthetic" species destroying a parent species once in a while, but would it be rational for them to try and stamp out every other thinking species in the galaxy? As I said before, why would organic species be their only threat? What about cyborgs, replicator swarms, Viral AIs etc... they aren't going to be the only kids on the block so to speak. It would be like us going around and killing every species on Earth that poses a potential threat to human life... I think we have better things to do.  

No, instead we dominate or control them because we can. Just by existing, humans have stunted the natural evolution of all other life on this planet. When we percieve a threat, we kill it or keep it at bay. (wolves for example)

If humans were never to have existed, it is quite possible that another animal might have evolved intelligently. We can never really know this because organic life is quite random (chaotic as it were) and too many factors are involved in how a species evolves.

Synthetics are  not bound by this law,and can evolve themselves however they so choose.

Right, and *that* would have been a great explanation for why the Reapers do what they do, rather than this synthetics don't play nice with organics crap. Organics seem to spend alot of time killing organics, and there is no reason why synthetics wouldn't fight each other too. In fact, the more similar two species are in terms of needed resources and living space, the more likely they would come into conflict. For example, the Geth Quarian conflict is silly because the Geth could easily relocate to deep space or to some system that is completely uninhabitable for any organic life form; there is no reason at all for the Geth to live on an Earth like planet. The writers just set it up that way so the two species have a (rather stupid) reason to fight.  

Modifié par SimKoning, 18 mars 2012 - 05:23 .

[Genera1Nemesis]

SimKoning wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

In 1965, I. J. Good first wrote of an "intelligence explosion", suggesting that if machines could even slightly surpass human intellect, they could improve their own designs in ways unforeseen by their designers, and thus recursively augment themselves into far greater intelligences. The first such improvements might be small, but as the machine became more intelligent it would become better at becoming more intelligent, which could lead to a cascade of self-improvements and a sudden surge to superintelligence (or a singularity).

From the above link, just thought it sounded a heck of a lot like EDI's evolution throughout the game.

Yes, there has been many science fiction novels written about the subject. Heck, there is a whole world building project built around an idea that pretty much refutes everything that came out of Ghost kids mouth > http://www.orionsarm.com/

I also suggest you check out Iain M. Banks Culture series > http://en.wikipedia....iki/The_Culture

All of this reminds me of why I hate the ending so much...

That Orion's Arm thing looks really cool, i'm going to dig a lot deeper into that lol. Thanks for the link.

[Genera1Nemesis]

SimKoning wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

Kelgair wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

"You don't know that, considering that since the Geth's creation organic beings always tried to destroy them out of fear, when the Geth finish the dyson sphere and upload to create their "true" AI, that AI might assume that all organic life is hostile by default and pre-empt any attempts at destroying it."

A Dyson sphere is the size of a solar system, now imagine millions of Dyson spheres linked together by a FTL network. I doubt they would be threatened by organic species running around in rockets anymore than you would feel threatened by a fly buzzing around your head. I doubt they would they be inclined to wipe out every squishy critter they come across anymore than we would go on some campaign to wipe out all bacteria on Earth. What we worry about are the few species of bacteria that do pose a threat to us once in a while, but not ALL of them.

You're presuming the Geth would be able to form mutliple Dyson spheres. As far as the Geth have known there's always been a swarm of flies that have attempted to destroy it since it's creation, if they wanted to make multple Dyson spheres it would only be logical to destroy all flies and the possibility of flies so that they could recreate their spheres in peace. Especially after their creators destroy their first attempt at making a Sphere. You seem to be arguing from a point past what's currently known in the ME universe.

Yes I'm presuming that, since there are probably 300 billions stars in this galaxy that they can build them around, with each one being the dimater of our solar system or greater. Hell, they could even build them around black holes and have a source of energy that would probably last hundreds of billions of years. Also, if you are bothered by a fly, do you just swat that one fly, or do you raise an army to exterminate all the flies on Earth, plus all flying insect species in gereral, since they have the "potential" of biting you? 

Biting you is hardly the same as destroying you. Our own history has shown that humans will wipe out other humans who threaten their way of life, or threaten their culture for that matter. Why wouldn't an AI come to the same very conclusion? And since the evolve much faster than we ever could, synthetics or AI would have more than enough capability within a reasonably short life span to wipe everything out. (see Terminator; they build laser-rifles and such while we were still firing bullets)

You are missing my point: the galaxy is a BIG place. Sure, I can see a "synthetic" species destroying a parent species once in a while, but would it be rational for them to try and stamp out every other thinking species in the galaxy? As I said before, why would organic species be their only threat? What about cyborgs, replicator swarms, Viral AIs etc... they aren't going to be the only kids on the block so to speak. It would be like us going around and killing every species on Earth that poses a potential threat to human life... I think we have better things to do.  

No, instead we dominate or control them because we can. Just by existing, humans have stunted the natural evolution of all other life on this planet. When we percieve a threat, we kill it or keep it at bay. (wolves for example)

If humans were never to have existed, it is quite possible that another animal might have evolved intelligently. We can never really know this because organic life is quite random (chaotic as it were) and too many factors are involved in how a species evolves.

Synthetics are  not bound by this law,and can evolve themselves however they so choose.

Right, and *that* would have been a great explanation for why the Reapers do what they do, rather than this synthetics don't play nice with organics crap, which is a false dichotomy. Organics seem to spend alot of time killing organics, and there is no reason why synthetics wouldn't fight each other too. In fact, the more similar two species are in terms of needed resources and living space, the more likely they would come into conflict. For example, the Geth Quarian conflict is silly because the Geth could easily relocate to deep space or to some system that is completely uninhabitable for any organic life form; there is no reason at all for the Geth to live on an Earth like planet. The writers just set it up that way so the two species have a (rather stupid) reason to fight.  

Assuming as well that they were being totally specific when they say 'destroy all organic life". That could also be taken as they adapt us into their machine world, thereby 'destroying' the nature of organic life by way of dictated evolution.

Assumptions, I know; and I could be entirely wrong; I am a flawed organic and it is a very interesting debate that has gone on for many, many years.