613 réponses à ce sujet

[Dessalines]

lrrose wrote...

The Reapers don't consider dissolving people to make more Reapers to be killing, instead, they view it as ascending to a higher plane of existence. Their motive makes sense if you view it from that perspective. They're actions are still horrific, but they are somewhat logical.

Sovereign talks about destruction. Harbringer talks about ripping you apart piece by piece. I think they understand that they are killing you.

[redsox95MB]

I think I understand it. They created the synthetics to wipe out space-faring civilizations before they become advanced enough to create true AIs, which they thought would kill ALL organic life, not just advanced life. I guess it's to make sure organic life continues. It still doesn't make much sense though.

[BrunoBerg]

They don't kill every single living being, they let species that haven't developed too far live. Kill lots of organics to ensure that organics as a whole, survive. It's not all that stupid in my opinion.

It's more like: Create synthetics to kill organics to make sure other synthetics don't exterminate every single living being.
It's certainly harsh and it's not necessarily correct, but it's not completely idiotic.

Modifié par BrunoBerg, 19 mars 2012 - 01:11 .

[Archon-god]

Dessalines, you are right on some points, but in my opinion:
1) Starchild said himself , that they believed that "The created will always rebel against their creators" so even if they worked together, that wouldn't stop anyone else from creating another synthetic race that could rise up and kill all organic life.
2) They might kill creatures/organics up to some point, but still their main objective is to harvest and preserve. The husks are just a means to an end, they need to decimate the organics' defenses before they can really start harvesting. Liara even says that it took the Reapers centuries to conquer the Protheans, so it's not a quick process.
3) Mass Relays were built by the Reapers so that "organic life would develop along the paths they desire". Also it made them a lot easier to come in, harvest, and then get back into dark space. They needed to make sure that all advanced civilizations were harvested (because eventually, they would all create synthetic life), and without the relays, that would take immense amounts of time, even with FTL travel.
4) Sure they are the only ones, but only because they had the TIME to develop such technology. Given time, and resources, any synthetic life form could surpass the Reapers, ultimately destroying all organic life along with the Reapers.
5) The Reapers didn't care about the Geth, even Saren said so. They were also just a means to an end. Sovereign had to make use of what he could, because alone,he couldn't have done what it wanted to: conquer the citadel, activate the citadel relay, and allow the Reapers to waltz in and harvest advanced life. He needed an agent/agents for that, this is where Saren and the Geth came in.. After their goal was met, they would have discarded and destroyed the Geth anyway, because they were inferior to the Reapers in every way, no useful technology to be earned.

Modifié par Archon-god, 19 mars 2012 - 01:31 .

[kidbd15]

I understand the premise, kill advanced organics so they don't create true AI that could kill ALL organics, that way organics in general live. I'm okay with the premise, it was just very poorly executed.

We shouldn't have to take his word that would happen, and shouldn't be confined to those 3 crappy choices. Furthermore, it completely derails everything my Shepard worked for in uniting Geth and Quarians.

[SimKoning]

Why does organic life have more value than synthetic life? It would be like wiping out all carbon based life so that silicon based life can evolve.. why would anything do that? We don't go out into the wild to stop ants from killing off a termite colony, why the hell should the Reapers care if one form of life (synthetic in this case) causes the extinction of carbon based life? The problem with those of you defending this reasoning, is that you are talking about machine life as if it has less value, or is not true life. If synthetic life evolves to become the dominant form of life in the galaxy, then why stop it at all?

There are only a few rational justifications for what the Reapers do: they evolved to be a cybernetic species that preys on other species, both synthetic and organic, and so they don't want any other species displacing them as the dominant "predator". Consequently, they snuff out life forms that have the potential to eventually threaten them, while feeding their heads with bull**** like, "oh, we aren't ruthlessly murdering you for selfish reasons! No, we are doing this for your own good!" Hence the need for indoctrination: no sane, critically thinking person would swallow their arguments.

Modifié par SimKoning, 20 mars 2012 - 08:08 .

[Archon-god]

Why stop it you ask? Because the organics would like to survive of course.

[idunhavaname]

Or... the star child could just you know... TELL US instead of sending god damn synthethics to kill everything.

[SimKoning]

Archon-god wrote...

Why stop it you ask? Because the organics would like to survive of course.

And why should the Reapers care about what we want? Especially since they seem to have no problem mass murdering trillions, or turning people into space zombies. They are machines, they may have some organic componets, but they are still machines. Not to mention, the god kids is an **AI**.

Modifié par SimKoning, 20 mars 2012 - 11:21 .

[tractrpl]

The spaceboy's logic is flawed. Ignoring the fact that EDI isn't hostile and the geth/quarian peace, there's the notion that synthetic life will inevitably destroy organic life. Why? It's totally illogical. Synthetic life can survive on just stellar radiation and raw materials taken from asteroids and comets. Why would synthetics need to fight organics? There would be virtually no competition of resources between the two groups that would lead to conflict. This 5 billion year old kid is messed. His circuitry must have gotten crossed at some point in the last 5 billion years. In any case, I ignored him. I took control of the Reapers, and in my own narrative, sent a self-destruct signal to them all and finished that particular problem, allowing the geth and EDI to progress naturally as well as organics, instead of forcing a synthesis on them or killing all synthetic life.

[tractrpl]

SimKoning wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

AS an interesting aside, if you haven't already watch the film The Day the Earth Stood Still. The alien uses the same logic as the Catalyst in that it wants to wipe out humanity so that we don't destroy the entire ecology of the earth one day.

    Right, but why the heck would a type 3 (on the Kardashev scale) civilization that is space based, synthetic, and devoid of organic components bother wiping out all complex life in the galaxy? We are talking about what would be millions, if not billions of worlds in Mass Effect’s version of the Milky Way. The biggest threat to the organic life would be other forms of organic life, not some quantum computer Matrioshka brain constructed around a black hole. Destroying *space faring* civilizations capable evolving into, or constructing new forms of super intelligence would make some sense, but not because they would be a threat to organic life, it would be because they would be a threat to preexisting artificial life forms… such as the Reapers. Bioware was on the right track, then they got it completely backwards.    

You bring up a good point. I will imagine that this spaceboy was lying, but for some reason unable to directly stop shepard. Usually, Reaper artifacts have some method of indoctrination, but this is absent from the Citadel, likely because if people started acting strangly before the Reapers were ready to start Reaping, then it would tip them off. Also, the Protheans reworked the Citadel at the end of their cycle. So, in my own re-imagining of the end story, the Reapers wiped out organic life to prevent other forms of synthetic life from arising, but want to preserve organic life
as "creators". The synergy ending is preferrable to him, because in the end, any synthetics and organics that arise are part Reaper, so they themselves never truly die. The destructive ending is bad for them, but also bad for our cycle, cause you kill helpful synthetics like EDI and the Geth. The blue ending is best, in my imagination, I sent them all into the the nearest star, killing all of them, and allowing the species of the Galaxy a chance to evolve naturally.

By the way, what the f*#% is up with Haestrom? Another thing that's never explained in the game. I think it was supposed to be incorporated in a similar manner to Freespace 2 (lots of Mass Effect draws parallels to the Freespace saga), but never fully implemented.

[JShepppp]

Hi OP, respectfully, I would suggest that you misunderstood the Catalyst. That statement may be intended for comic effect but it's a great oversimplification of the problem it's actually trying to deal with - technological singularity. I don't want to use up a lot of space to explain it here. Some threads talk about it on the forums here, or if you can't find any you can check my sig.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

how does everyone miss this:

The reapers obliterate our militaries, and then preserve our civilizations as reapers.  They dont kill everyone, they declaw us so that they can reaperize the rest of our people to preserve our society as reaper data.


Geth gone wild wouldn't preserve our society, they'd whipe us out.

thats the whole crisis that lead to the creation of the reapers in the first place.

i got it the first time.  one wants to destroy life because its illogical, one wants to archive it before it can destroy itself.  thats why the reapers do what they do.

[StarGateGod]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

how does everyone miss this:

The reapers obliterate our militaries, and then preserve our civilizations as reapers.  They dont kill everyone, they declaw us so that they can reaperize the rest of our people to preserve our society as reaper data.


Geth gone wild wouldn't preserve our society, they'd whipe us out.

thats the whole crisis that lead to the creation of the reapers in the first place.

i got it the first time.  one wants to destroy life because its illogical, one wants to archive it before it can destroy itself.  thats why the reapers do what they do.

i cant honestly tell if you are being serious but i will assume you are. They do kill us all and they do it for a stupid reason. The geth are my friends