613 réponses à ce sujet

[RShara]

It's like being in a room with 10 people. 5 are adults, 5 are children.
You kill all the adults. You tell the children, "You're too young. I'll kill you when you grow up and have kids."
....
How does this make sense?

Modifié par RShara, 18 mars 2012 - 11:59 .

[JeosDinas]

MrGPhantome wrote...

Who get killed anyways.

You do realise that we are right? Don't you?

Except you're not apprehending the logic. I assume deliberately at this point. The belief is that without this cycle, life will reach a point where it will ultimately end alltogether. Creators will be destroyed by creations. They will die with little proof or testament to their existence. There will be nothing.

When the Reapers harvest, they deliberate leave some forms of life...well, alive..because the idea is that any life (even that which might be doomed to destruction in another cycle) is better than allowing a state of affairs that will lead to none at all. 

Mandemon wrote...
Why wipe out galactic civilizations before anything happens in the most horrific way possible?

 


You ask this question as if the Reapers havn't existed long enough to generally see their thesis proven time and time again. Indeed, *we* as players have this knowledge. The Morning War. The Metacon War. The events of Project Overloard. All tend to point towards the validity of the logic. And this is only from recent galactic history. Imagine that chain going back billions of years. The only time this thesis has been proven wrong is by the time of this game with the geth and quarian and only if Shepard directly affects the outcome.

Modifié par JeosDinas, 18 mars 2012 - 12:03 .

[A Paperback Hero]

RShara wrote...

Kelgair wrote...

RShara wrote...

Um
Let me correct that for you

Culling some organics while leaving others to live only to kill them later = Killing all organics so none are left alive
at the end

Except
that they always leave organics alive for the next cycle of harvest. In
other words there will always be organics. In other words the hybrid is
garunteeing the survival of organic life.

A Paperback Hero wrote...

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

Um
Let me correct that for you

Culling some organics while leaving others to live only to kill them later = Killing all organics so none are left alive
at the end

If they always leave some organics alive... then there will always be organics alive....

And yet, those organics left alive are dead at the door and they don't even know it. If your going to just keep killing all organic life because, for eons ,they always make the same mistace just wipe them out. Efficiency itself makes space boy rediculous.

Or just continually blast things at the microscopic level so that only parameciums survive.

Truef don't have to worry about organics growing a brain and I guess organic life gets to continue!!! Why aren't the Reaper's doing that?

[CavScout]

RShara wrote...

Or just continually blast things at the microscopic level so that only parameciums survive.

Do you just forget the whole harvesting thing the Reapers did to the advanced civilizations?

[RShara]

JeosDinas wrote...

MrGPhantome wrote...

Who get killed anyways.

You do realise that we are right? Don't you?

Except you're not apprehending the logic. I assume deliberately at this point. The belief is that without this cycle, life will reach a point where it will ultimately end alltogether. Creators will be destroyed by creations. They will die with little proof or testament to their existence. There will be nothing.

When the Reapers harvest, they deliberate leave some forms of life...well, alive..because the idea is that any life (even that which might be doomed to destruction in another cycle) is better than allowing a state of affairs that will lead to none at all. 

But there is still microscopic life, which will evolve eventually.  Only the "higher" life forms would be wiped out.  Like what the Reapers are doing.
And before anyone says, "The synthetics will wipe out more and keep doing it and prevent organic life from evolving," that's EXACTLY what the Reapers do every 50k years.

[CavScout]

RShara wrote...

It's like being in a room with 10 people. 5 are adults, 5 are children.
You kill all the adults. You tell the children, "You're too young. I'll kill you when you grow up and have kids."
....
How does this make sense?

Ask Logan 3.

[A Paperback Hero]

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

Or just continually blast things at the microscopic level so that only parameciums survive.

Do you just forget the whole harvesting thing the Reapers did to the advanced civilizations?

Why do they want to harvest organic programming so flawed that it does the same thing over and over again and kills itself. Oh wait. They are flawed and just keep mass destroying every organic life every 50k years. WoW space boy is as flawed as the creatures he presumes to save.

Modifié par A Paperback Hero, 18 mars 2012 - 12:02 .

[cotheer]

Someone should really do some kind of diagram to explain how this whole thing makes no sense whatsoever.

All those organics that are "left" to live, are living on a borrowed time.
Time for their extermination will come in the next or the cycle after that.

So i really can't see how can someone find comfort in a fact that some organics are left to live. O_o

[MrGPhantome]

JeosDinas wrote...

Except you're not apprehending the logic. I assume deliberately at this point. The belief is that without this cycle, life will reach a point where it will ultimately end alltogether. Creators will be destroyed by creations. They will die with little proof or testament to their existence. There will be nothing.

When the Reapers harvest, they deliberate leave some forms of life...well, alive..because the idea is that any life (even that which might be doomed to destruction in another cycle) is better than allowing a state of affairs that will lead to none at all. 

The same old "but.... they leave some people alive" arugment.

Sorry, but synthetics to kill organics to make sure synthetics don't kill organics.

[Tasker]

It all boils down to...

Reapers "WILL" wipe you out, because pure guesswork says that synthetics "MIGHT" wipe you out.

From crawling out of the ooze to being wiped out by the Reapers, your race has at most 100,000 years of existance.

What is the point of letting the non space fairing races go, if they're just going to be wiped out next cycle anyway?

Might as well wipe out all life now regardless of space worthyness, as next cycle they'll be wiping them out anyway.

Which results in the exact thing they were trying to prevent in the first place.

Modifié par Orkboy, 18 mars 2012 - 12:03 .

[Kelgair]

RShara wrote...

Or just continually blast things at the microscopic level so that only parameciums survive.

That's exactly the kind of thing the Reapers are trying to prevent, they don't WANT to kill all organic life. That's the kind of thing an AI would do to garuntee it doesn't have to fight organics again.

[RShara]

A Paperback Hero wrote...

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

Or just continually blast things at the microscopic level so that only parameciums survive.

Do you just forget the whole harvesting thing the Reapers did to the advanced civilizations?

Why do they want to harvest organic programming so flawed that it does the same thing over and over again and kills itself. Oh wait. They are flawed and just keep mass destroying every organic life every 50k years. WoW space boy is as flawed is the creatures he presumes to save.

Didn't we agree to call a duck a duck and call it killing, not harvesting, preserving, ascending, etc?

[CavScout]

A Paperback Hero wrote...

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

Or just continually blast things at the microscopic level so that only parameciums survive.

Do you just forget the whole harvesting thing the Reapers did to the advanced civilizations?

Why do they want to harvest organic programming so flawed that it does the same thing over and over again and kills itself. Oh wait. They are flawed and just keep mass destroying every organic life every 50k years. WoW space boy is as flawed as the creatures he presumes to save.

Is this another spasam because you've found yourself boxed in again?

[piemanz]

A Paperback Hero wrote...

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

They all end up dead. The end result is the same.

Culling some organics while leaving others to live = / = Killing all organics so none are left alive

And yet culling each organic over time systematically = all organic life dead anyway.

No future no point. No freedom to dictate their own demise synthetic or not = no point as well.

Yea, but you fail to see that the Reapers beleive they are preserving life by creating a Reaper. Whether you see it as murder or not is totally irrelevent because they don't hold the same value or morality to you. The point is that TO THEM, it's logical to kill the sythetics, and ASCEND the organics to restore order.

I know you're going to say, "how is turning them into goo ascending", it's irrelevent what you think because they see themselves as a higher form of evolution so it's logical that they think makeing a Reaper from organic material is in some twisted way, ascension.

Yes in many ways it's self serving, and in some ways their logic is flawed, but  TO THEM , it's the best solution to a problem they perceive to exist.

[RShara]

Kelgair wrote...

RShara wrote...

Or just continually blast things at the microscopic level so that only parameciums survive.

That's exactly the kind of thing the Reapers are trying to prevent, they don't WANT to kill all organic life. That's the kind of thing an AI would do to garuntee it doesn't have to fight organics again.

The only difference here is that the Reapers wait until the organic life realizes what is happening to it before it blasts it.

[MrGPhantome]

RShara wrote...

Didn't we agree to call a duck a duck and call it killing, not harvesting, preserving, ascending, etc?

No we can't do that, it would incovience those trying to make bad arguments that in no way come close to disproving the flawed premise of the ending.

[RShara]

piemanz wrote...

A Paperback Hero wrote...

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

They all end up dead. The end result is the same.

Culling some organics while leaving others to live = / = Killing all organics so none are left alive

And yet culling each organic over time systematically = all organic life dead anyway.

No future no point. No freedom to dictate their own demise synthetic or not = no point as well.

Yea, but you fail to see that the Reapers beleive they are preserving life by creating a Reaper. Whether you see it as murder or not is totally irrelevent because they don't hold the same value or morality to you. The point is that TO THEM, it's logical to kill the sythetics, and ASCEND the organics to restore order.

I know you're going to say, "how is turning them into goo ascending", it's irrelevent what you think because they see themselves as a higher form of evolution so it's logical that they think makeing a Reaper from organic material is in some twisted way, ascension.

Yes in many ways it's self serving, and in some ways their logic is flawed, but  TO THEM , it's the best solution to a problem they perceive to exist.

And we are sayign THEIR LOGIC IS FLAWED.  And I don't see how an immortal race could fail to comprehend this when we can.

[CavScout]

RShara wrote...

A Paperback Hero wrote...

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

Or just continually blast things at the microscopic level so that only parameciums survive.

Do you just forget the whole harvesting thing the Reapers did to the advanced civilizations?

Why do they want to harvest organic programming so flawed that it does the same thing over and over again and kills itself. Oh wait. They are flawed and just keep mass destroying every organic life every 50k years. WoW space boy is as flawed is the creatures he presumes to save.

Didn't we agree to call a duck a duck and call it killing, not harvesting, preserving, ascending, etc?

You're calling a dog a duck and hoping now one notices. The Reapers dont just kill. They harvest.

[MrGPhantome]

I'll try this approach...

If I was a creative writing teacher, and I gave out an assignment saying, try to make a GOOD story out of this premise: Create synthetics to kill organics to make sure synthetics don't kill organics.

They would all fail the assignment.

That's what the core argument is about. That is the premise of the story, no matter how hard you argue and try to add specifics and details the core premise stays the same ****ty premise.

It needs to be changed!

[Raxxman]

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

A Paperback Hero wrote...

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

Or just continually blast things at the microscopic level so that only parameciums survive.

Do you just forget the whole harvesting thing the Reapers did to the advanced civilizations?

Why do they want to harvest organic programming so flawed that it does the same thing over and over again and kills itself. Oh wait. They are flawed and just keep mass destroying every organic life every 50k years. WoW space boy is as flawed is the creatures he presumes to save.

Didn't we agree to call a duck a duck and call it killing, not harvesting, preserving, ascending, etc?

You're calling a dog a duck and hoping now one notices. The Reapers dont just kill. They harvest.

They don't harvest everything, last cycle it seems like they didn't harvest anything, and this cycle the seem to just want Humans. Everyone else is chow.

[A Paperback Hero]

RShara wrote...

Kelgair wrote...

RShara wrote...

Or just continually blast things at the microscopic level so that only parameciums survive.

That's exactly the kind of thing the Reapers are trying to prevent, they don't WANT to kill all organic life. That's the kind of thing an AI would do to garuntee it doesn't have to fight organics again.

The only difference here is that the Reapers wait until the organic life realizes what is happening to it before it blasts it.

Truuuuuuuuuuuuuef.

Its the intergalactic running gag I guess. "OMG we are smart enough to know there are reapers and ****. Awp here they come I guess its our turn to go. I miss being a an amoeba and not thinking so I could live."

[CavScout]

RShara wrote...

And we are sayign THEIR LOGIC IS FLAWED.  And I don't see how an immortal race could fail to comprehend this when we can.

If our lives depended on your convincing an immortal race we had logic... we'd be doomed.

[JeosDinas]

 

MrGPhantome wrote...

The same old "but.... they leave some people alive" arugment.

Sorry, but synthetics to kill organics to make sure synthetics don't kill organics.

 

My mistake. I confused you with someone who actually wanted to discuss things.

RShara wrote...
But there is still microscopic life, which will evolve eventually..

I'm not entirely sure I follow your argument here. What of microscopic life? It has no particular bearing on anything. Of course it will evolve. I rather believe that's partly the point. Control development, let it reach an acceptable apex, prune the garden as it were, and let lesser forms of life rise to develop along the lines deemed acceptable until you get to the second verse which is the same as the first. 

By the point that their logic has been proven false, they outright admit it. And it's only been proven false through very specific circumstances.

Modifié par JeosDinas, 18 mars 2012 - 12:09 .

[A Paperback Hero]

CavScout wrote...

RShara wrote...

And we are sayign THEIR LOGIC IS FLAWED.  And I don't see how an immortal race could fail to comprehend this when we can.

If our lives depended on your convincing an immortal race we had logic... we'd be doomed.

And under your under your view we should be happy to be doomed. ROFL

Modifié par A Paperback Hero, 18 mars 2012 - 12:08 .

[Ranicus56]

MalevoIence wrote...

Heathen Pride wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

Wait..... thought Reapers were both synthetic and organic, using the us to create themselves, hence the human reaper

Yeah..I suppose they are. But they're controlled by Space Boy as we learn at the end, so they may as well be mindless golems that bend to the will of Space Boy.

My point is, they're not entirely synthetic, they're a hybrid

But reapers are controlled by a super synthetic AI...