254 réponses à ce sujet

[ImpudentInfidel]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

Peete wrote...

I think you're in denial (no offense) and that nothing is coming.

It sucks.

Then I will lose hope in humanity and turn into a bitter old spitefull cynic at the age of 27 -.-

You spend time one the internet. How did you make it 27 without becoming a bitter cynic?

[devSin]

Nykara wrote...

Of course they like it. Its the epic part that we haven't seen yet.

But the purpose of that statement wasn't to pat themselves on the back.

It was a direct response to the negative reaction to the ending. Is that really the time to double down?

[dannati]

ReiCow wrote...

dannati wrote...

The problem with the "It's all a ruse," idea is that they've let it go on too long. At this point, permanent harm has been done to the brand. If they had something ready, but were holding it back (to let the staggered international release complete, for example), they would have said something unambiguous to nip the fan outrage in the bud. If this were deliberate, managing the fan response would have been part of the plan.

The BioWare reaction pretty clearly shows they're circling the wagons while they figure out what to do. They know they've botched it, artistic integrity or not. But all their options are bad and most are costly, either in development or loss of future sales. So they have to analyze what their options are: what do they have the development staff available to do, what will it cost them, and how will that balance against mitigating damage to the brand. It's a tough spot and I don't envy them, but they brought it on themselves.

It has only been 4 days since it was released everywhere (Japan was the 15th).. that isn't terribly long. In addition, the news reports are growing, and to larger instituations. I could definitely believe they want to wait until all countries have had the game for at least a week and for the game to hit the most major news outlets it can, before giving us the reveal. The larger exposure is probably worth the small percentage of fans willing to return their games (most of us enjoyed the rest so much, we couldn't, in good conscience, return it). Fans who may vary well rebuy the game upon the ending reveal, in order t ofinish it. In addition, they made no secret of how they wanted this to be a landmark in gaming history, and a great way to do it would be to fool us all with the indoctrination ending, then release the real ending a little bit later.

As for damage to the brand, if they follow the above release plan, I think they will regain love from the fans (with grumbling), and make their mark in gaming history. Everyone would remember Mass Effect not only for the awesome series it was, but for how they took the story and fooled all of the fans with it in spectacular fashion!

BW's reaction hasn't been "clear" in the slightest; I think their reaction shows them being coy and trying to keep us on the hook until they make the big announcement.

Moo.

Clarity, I suppose, is in the eye of the beholder, so I won't argue that point with you.

If coyness is the plan, emotional responses and memory are... problematic.  Strong emotions tend to make similarly strong impressions in memory and associations.  Even if we assume under this Super Clever plan that consumers will forgive BioWare for the deception (which I find unlikely, but YMMV), customers now have significant periods of time spent associating the Mass Effect and BioWare brands with anger, frustration and general disdain.  Those associations do not (generally) get overwritten when new memories and associations are formed.  Even if people are overwhelmingly happy with the reveal, damage has been done.

As a separate matter, I take issue with the idea that fans will look favorably upon a big reveal after such a botched PR situation.  I'll break in down it the manner I would see it:

1. BioWare/EA knowingly sold me an incomplete game.
2. This act ruined a weekend directly (couldn't muster the interest for a 2nd playthrough), and dimished the following week
3. I, and many others, asked BioWare about it, and their responses varied between smug obscurations and outright lies, when they said anything at all
4. BIG REVEAL!
5. So... you jerks made me miserable and then strung me along for weeks just so you could be super-duper clever?  And you thought I would enjoy this?  You're idiots.  Smug, condescending idiots.
6. Thanks for the great game.  I'll never pre-order or get a collector's editon from BioWare again.  And I'll avoid any BW product until I have unequivocal evidence it's of high quality and exactly up my alley.  No more benefit of doubt.

Modifié par dannati, 19 mars 2012 - 11:18 .

[pablosplinter]

The biggest problem with IT is that if they had it planned, and they were going to do a big gotcha, then it is still ultimately a fail, because 'what is seen cannot be unseen'.  How many people no longer care?

I think they planned it, removed it but didn't change any of the cutscenes, tacked on this rubbish ending. They really should adopt it though. It can still work

[Wikkr]

Too much doesnt fit. the main story to the game is epic but the ending a plot hole ridden farse? it could go either way.

I was showing a friend the start to me3 last night and i noticed one thing. one of the times the kid appears in the game is just after the reapers land and your working your way over the rooftops. you get patched through and can hear the normandy chatter, the first time anderson points out some husks climbing the building if you look to the right you see the kid clamber over the side rail and run into the building where you find him in a vent. BUT if you go over and look over that edge after the second wave of husks you have to mellee come out theres a sheer drop down the side of a sky scraper. no way that kid climbed it himself.

The more i look at the plot holes and (possible) hints dropped throughout the game the more i pray the indoctrination theory is true. Either that or it is just dissapointly poor writing on behalf of bioware which lets down what could have been their crowning glory for years to come

[ReiCow]

GizmoKodiak wrote...

I like the Indoctrination Theory. But if it were true, they would have implemented it in-game already and not pull a "gotcha" move like this. Its way too risk. If I'm wrong and they say "gotcha" now, they still screwed up. It's a lousy move that doesen't achieve anything, even if it is legendary.

I want a different ending because they failed. Even if it was intentional. And I don't like it that I want one.

.

I like your post, and agree it is rather mean to us to do this, however, I can see why they would do it this way. Suppose that the game, as released, continued on.. the "indoctrination segment" would have FAR LESS impact. People would be confused and annoyed for two seconds before starting the actual final level.

Doing it the way they actually release it, however, the indoctrination ending has a MAJOR emotional impact.. and thus the REAL ending will have that much more heightened an impact. Again, I'm not the biggest fan of doing it this way, but it is a brilliant artistic idea, and one that will be remembered.

Moo.

[ImpudentInfidel]

The problem with this idea is that they had a more complete ending, then changed it to insert plotholes.

[Peranor]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

Isnt it strange:

...that Bioware doesent seem concerned that the ending was so bad that even if 99% of the game was fantastic... the only thing their game will ever be remembered for was its horrible ending?

... that the now-standing ending is actually so bad that 1% of the game completely overshadows the other 99% combined?

And thats just extra sad. No matter how great the game was, a few years from now it will only be remembered as the game with the horrible ending that destroyed the whole series.
In a way that would have been easier for me to cope with if the whole game had been a stinking pile of horse manure, but alas it isnt.

[count_4]

Sadly this works in both ways.
If BioWare really had something up their sleeve, why in hell would they deliberately take this much damage without saying anything?

We're way beyond the point of nerd rage - it's affecting sales and the overall perception of BioWare and Mass Effect 3.

Believe me, I do really hope you're right but I haven't a lot of hope...

[Hendrik.III]

OR they just made a gigantic mistake they don't know how to fix.

Of course, they worked their asses off, but that fact only gets more painful because they didn't go the last mile. I've worked hard on projects that ultimately failed, and near the end you know what's going to work, what will be a gamble and what is probably not going to work. Best is to ditch the deadline/budget and do whatever is best, but if you're not allowed the room to do that... this is what you get.

The team MUST have known that this end would be a problem, yet someone gave it a green light anyway.

Trust me. NEVER underestimate the amount of stupid in corporations, no matter how big. This economial crisis we're in now? Same thing. There's no kind of stupidity worse than the "impatient for results" kind.

Modifié par Hendrik.III, 19 mars 2012 - 11:31 .

[Phoenix NL]

Well whether they meant it or not Bioware has gotten more press for this game than any other recent game. It's made part of their original fanbase move to vocalize their opinions and others who weren't interested in the game take note if only to understand what the controversy was about. They have a chance to salvage this if they play their cards right but it's a very thin line to walk.

[pharsti]

Thats called denial mate, but youre free to believe in unicorns XD

[t_i_e_]

Electronic Arts is a disease to game developers. DA:2 was the beginning signs of sickness. SW:TOR and ME3 is now the EA disease full blown that has bed ridden Bioware. Give them maybe another game or two and Bioware will be pushed to the side for nothing more then a free to play MMO management company.

Lets also not forget how EA opened up all kinds of side studios with the Bioware name on it. They bought Bioware just for the name alone. Now they'll run them through the mud.

[Wes Finley]

The guys in suits are just grinning wider and wider...

[FyreSyder]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

Peete wrote...

I think you're in denial (no offense) and that nothing is coming.

It sucks.

Then I will lose hope in humanity and turn into a bitter old spitefull cynic at the age of 27 -.-

Dude, I'm ALREADY a spiteful, pessimistic cynic and I'm only 19....

[Sinilin_]

I truly hope they're planning something epic for the ending but my faith is fading away as the days go by...

[Joccaren]

Bioware honestly f***ed up this time, but they feel it and they don't like it. Sadly, EA has the final word on what happens, and they are in PR mode ATM. Do they need to make ending DLC, costing them more money, will anyone actually buy it? How many protesters are serious about this?
I personally think Bioware would love to expand upon the ending and make it better. What everyone here needs to do is convince EA that its a good idea to let them. That means making your voice heard (Be civil though), getting organised with others and letting them know that not making ending DLC will cost them your playing of their game, and therefore future potential DLC purchases, and be clear just how far you will go for this ending DLC. I've seen people say they'd give up to $15 for a better ending - let them know how far you'd go for it. Know its unlikely to be free, and be reasonable there - the need to spend money to make it - but keep pushing for that ending, and Bioware may get to make us happy. We just gotta let EA know we want them to.

[Kirmy]

You obviously underestimate how important the end of a trilogy game series is...

Sorry but you should think into a bit more.

[Phoenix NL]

The thought I can't shake is that they've already faced this kind of ending with DA:Origins. There were good endings, there were bad endings. You could sacrific yourself or you could survive and you found out what happened to you and your LI and all of your companions. I don't remembers fans coming out with torches and pitchforks complaining that the ending was "not epic enough", the fans were happy with it and then went out and bought Awakening. Somehow they forgot this with ME3.

[-Colt-]

A part of me still holds out hope that Bioware is indeed planning something...

Like many others I can't honestly believe that they would let this ending fly. These are the people that created the entire universe and it's inhabitants we've been playing through these last three games and have grown to care for. A universe rich in some much detail, which a great deal of people won't even notice/read/experience.
To just ruin the entire lore of the series in 10 minutes of the last entry in the serie. I don't buy it.

Not to mention the "Sheppard Lives" cutscene... It doesn't make sense. They first completely destroy the mass effect universe, doom entire civilisations and induviduals to death. And then show everyone a scene that indicates Sheppard survived? What is the point?
Then I am not even going into specifics on how the hell Sheppard survived, why he is waking up in an area that looks more like the ruined remains of London then any part of the Crucible or Citadel.

I fully support the ReTake ME3 movement and will continue to do so; but still...
I'd really like to see Bioware make a big reveal of something amazing that'll turn this whole thing around.

[Hendrik.III]

Joccaren wrote...

Bioware honestly f***ed up this time, but they feel it and they don't like it. Sadly, EA has the final word on what happens, and they are in PR mode ATM. Do they need to make ending DLC, costing them more money, will anyone actually buy it? How many protesters are serious about this?
I personally think Bioware would love to expand upon the ending and make it better. What everyone here needs to do is convince EA that its a good idea to let them. That means making your voice heard (Be civil though), getting organised with others and letting them know that not making ending DLC will cost them your playing of their game, and therefore future potential DLC purchases, and be clear just how far you will go for this ending DLC. I've seen people say they'd give up to $15 for a better ending - let them know how far you'd go for it. Know its unlikely to be free, and be reasonable there - the need to spend money to make it - but keep pushing for that ending, and Bioware may get to make us happy. We just gotta let EA know we want them to.

Exactly this. I had the feeling BioWare would gladly give us what we desired, but that EA enforced the deadline when BioWare ran out of time/money.

Gut feeling? Instead of letting them do what BioWare wanted, EA wanted results and it backfired. I'd not be surprised if that multiplayer idea was EA's, as well. Hurr durr BF series is populurrr... do a multiplayer, let the fps kids crave for this game too! ...and then BW ran out of time because of it and had to f*** up the ending, patch things with photoshop and whatnot to at least make it in time.

This has corporate stupidity written all over it.

Modifié par Hendrik.III, 19 mars 2012 - 11:51 .

[Hexxys]

Bioware isn't really an insidious company. I'm sure they were banking on this ending pissing a few people off, but not NEARLY this many. They'll downplay it for awhile longer to keep sales up, which is technically the correct business move, even if it is at our expense.

We'll see if what they do is legendary. Right now they've already managed something legendary... In a bad way.

[ReiCow]

Hendrik.III wrote...

Joccaren wrote...

Bioware honestly f***ed up this time, but they feel it and they don't like it. Sadly, EA has the final word on what happens, and they are in PR mode ATM. Do they need to make ending DLC, costing them more money, will anyone actually buy it? How many protesters are serious about this?
I personally think Bioware would love to expand upon the ending and make it better. What everyone here needs to do is convince EA that its a good idea to let them. That means making your voice heard (Be civil though), getting organised with others and letting them know that not making ending DLC will cost them your playing of their game, and therefore future potential DLC purchases, and be clear just how far you will go for this ending DLC. I've seen people say they'd give up to $15 for a better ending - let them know how far you'd go for it. Know its unlikely to be free, and be reasonable there - the need to spend money to make it - but keep pushing for that ending, and Bioware may get to make us happy. We just gotta let EA know we want them to.

Exactly this. I had the feeling BioWare would gladly give us what we desired, but that EA enforced the deadline when BioWare ran out of time/money.

Gut feeling? Instead of letting them do what BioWare wanted, EA wanted results and it backfired. I'd not be surprised if that multiplayer idea was EA's, as well. Hurr durr BF series is populurrr... do a multiplayer, let the fps kids crave for this game too! ...and then BW ran out of time because of it and had to f*** up the ending, patch things with photoshop and whatnot to at least make it in time.

This has corporate stupidity written all over it.

But even with a bad deadline, they could have put togethor a slideshow ending of character / race / plot wrap up like DAO (or DAOA). The only thing that makes any sense to me is that this simply isn't the ending. The game continues on from Sheppard waking up in London in a future free dlc.

Moo.

[Raycer X]

ImpudentInfidel wrote...

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

Peete wrote...

I think you're in denial (no offense) and that nothing is coming.

It sucks.

Then I will lose hope in humanity and turn into a bitter old spitefull cynic at the age of 27 -.-

You spend time one the internet. How did you make it 27 without becoming a bitter cynic?

I'd like to know too since I'm well into the cynical as*hole stage. But to be on topic, I'm skeptical about Bioware's "supposed" plan for handling the ending with DLC.

If they were planning this, then it would infuriate some of the fan base knowing that the ending that they wanted would require real world money from them.

If that's the case, what is there to prevent other games from giving players crappy endings on the main disc's game and then selling us a "desirable" ending??

[ReiCow]

Raycer X wrote...

ImpudentInfidel wrote...

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

Peete wrote...

I think you're in denial (no offense) and that nothing is coming.

It sucks.

Then I will lose hope in humanity and turn into a bitter old spitefull cynic at the age of 27 -.-

You spend time one the internet. How did you make it 27 without becoming a bitter cynic?

I'd like to know too since I'm well into the cynical as*hole stage. But to be on topic, I'm skeptical about Bioware's "supposed" plan for handling the ending with DLC.

If they were planning this, then it would infuriate some of the fan base knowing that the ending that they wanted would require real world money from them.

If that's the case, what is there to prevent other games from giving players crappy endings on the main disc's game and then selling us a "desirable" ending??

Right, the ending DLC idea only works if it is FREE. If it is essentially a gigantic game patch. That would be a very interesting anti-piracy precedent. On the other hand, charging for afixed ending would set a HORRIBLE precedent.

Moo.