254 réponses à ce sujet

[nomoredruggs]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I doubt they planned anything. That doesn't preclude them releasing something legendary, though.

Besides, if it was intended it's not funny. Lots of people got depressed (I'm using that term loosely) after the ending.

[Mad-Hamlet]

Those who forget the past....

[ReiCow]

dannati wrote...

ReiCow wrote...

dannati wrote...

The problem with the "It's all a ruse," idea is that they've let it go on too long. At this point, permanent harm has been done to the brand. If they had something ready, but were holding it back (to let the staggered international release complete, for example), they would have said something unambiguous to nip the fan outrage in the bud. If this were deliberate, managing the fan response would have been part of the plan.

The BioWare reaction pretty clearly shows they're circling the wagons while they figure out what to do. They know they've botched it, artistic integrity or not. But all their options are bad and most are costly, either in development or loss of future sales. So they have to analyze what their options are: what do they have the development staff available to do, what will it cost them, and how will that balance against mitigating damage to the brand. It's a tough spot and I don't envy them, but they brought it on themselves.

It has only been 4 days since it was released everywhere (Japan was the 15th).. that isn't terribly long. In addition, the news reports are growing, and to larger instituations. I could definitely believe they want to wait until all countries have had the game for at least a week and for the game to hit the most major news outlets it can, before giving us the reveal. The larger exposure is probably worth the small percentage of fans willing to return their games (most of us enjoyed the rest so much, we couldn't, in good conscience, return it). Fans who may vary well rebuy the game upon the ending reveal, in order t ofinish it. In addition, they made no secret of how they wanted this to be a landmark in gaming history, and a great way to do it would be to fool us all with the indoctrination ending, then release the real ending a little bit later.

As for damage to the brand, if they follow the above release plan, I think they will regain love from the fans (with grumbling), and make their mark in gaming history. Everyone would remember Mass Effect not only for the awesome series it was, but for how they took the story and fooled all of the fans with it in spectacular fashion!

BW's reaction hasn't been "clear" in the slightest; I think their reaction shows them being coy and trying to keep us on the hook until they make the big announcement.

Moo.

Clarity, I suppose, is in the eye of the beholder, so I won't argue that point with you.

If coyness is the plan, emotional responses and memory are... problematic.  Strong emotions tend to make similarly strong impressions in memory and associations.  Even if we assume under this Super Clever plan that consumers will forgive BioWare for the deception (which I find unlikely, but YMMV), customers now have significant periods of time spent associating the Mass Effect and BioWare brands with anger, frustration and general disdain.  Those associations do not (generally) get overwritten when new memories and associations are formed.  Even if people are overwhelmingly happy with the reveal, damage has been done.

As a separate matter, I take issue with the idea that fans will look favorably upon a big reveal after such a botched PR situation.  I'll break in down it the manner I would see it:

1. BioWare/EA knowingly sold me an incomplete game.
2. This act ruined a weekend directly (couldn't muster the interest for a 2nd playthrough), and dimished the following week
3. I, and many others, asked BioWare about it, and their responses varied between smug obscurations and outright lies, when they said anything at all
4. BIG REVEAL!
5. So... you jerks made me miserable and then strung me along for weeks just so you could be super-duper clever?  And you thought I would enjoy this?  You're idiots.  Smug, condescending idiots.
6. Thanks for the great game.  I'll never pre-order or get a collector's editon from BioWare again.  And I'll avoid any BW product until I have unequivocal evidence it's of high quality and exactly up my alley.  No more benefit of doubt.

I think BW is betting that the real ending (and the buildup) will be so great, people will forgive the artistic choice. It is quite a gamble, but even if it doesn't pay off.. it will be very memorable!

Moo.

[RazorrX]

Well probably like with Dragon Age, they will be silent until it grows quiet and sales bottom out, then they will say that they learned a lot from ME3 and are really going to take the fanbase into account when they are building the next game, so you can really trust that they will not make those same mistakes again.

Then they will hype up and try to get you to buy the next installment in the Mass Effect universe :

Mass Effect: The First Contact War!

[disfunktional]

 I do not understand this consistent argument being echoed that the ending has some how "financially" hurt Cerber... I mean EA or BW? It has moved over 2.4 million units in less the 2 weeks... In some places the game has not even been out for a week.

To give you some perspective ME1 sold a total to date 2.97 million... This inlcudes Xbox full price discs, Reduced priced discs, Market place downloads and all forms of PC release.

ME2 total 3.98 million.

So to recap in a few weeks we have well crossed selling over half of the best selling ME game.

This idea that peoples anger stops units from selling is in the best terms misguided, There is an old saying that any publicity is good publicity... In a capitolist society notions of fairness to your feelings are irrelevant.

This is not any form of proof and very importantly disproof that BW has something planned... The sales figures do difinitively prove one thing... The sales are not being hurt by the what some will call backlash and what others would call free publicity... ME3 is on track to be the best selling ME. 

Modifié par disfunktional, 19 mars 2012 - 01:29 .

[jkflipflopDAO]

disfunktional wrote...

 I do not understand this consistent argument being echoed that the ending has some how "financially" hurt Cerber... I mean EA or BW? It has moved over 2.4 million units in less the 2 weeks... In some places the game has not even been out for a week.

To give you some perspective ME1 sold a total to date 2.97 million... This inlcudes Xbox full price discs, Reduced priced discs, Market place downloads and all forms of PC release.

ME2 total 3.98 million.

So to recap in a few weeks we have well crossed selling over half of the best selling ME game.

This idea that peoples anger stops units from selling is in the best terms misguided, There is an old saying that any publicity is good publicity... In a capitolist society notions of fairness to your feelings are irrelevant.

This is not any form of proof and very importantly disproof that BW has something planned... The sales figures do difinitively prove one thing... The sales are not being hurt by the what some will call backlash and what others would call free publicity... ME3 is on track to be the best selling ME. 

It's going to hurt them going forwards, genius. You know, once all the people that have been avoiding spoilers like the pox finish the game and go "WTF?!?!"

Of course ME3's sales arent really affected. No one is reading spoilers, and those few that are do are saying "it can't possibly be that bad".

[ReiCow]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

disfunktional wrote...

 I do not understand this consistent argument being echoed that the ending has some how "financially" hurt Cerber... I mean EA or BW? It has moved over 2.4 million units in less the 2 weeks... In some places the game has not even been out for a week.

To give you some perspective ME1 sold a total to date 2.97 million... This inlcudes Xbox full price discs, Reduced priced discs, Market place downloads and all forms of PC release.

ME2 total 3.98 million.

So to recap in a few weeks we have well crossed selling over half of the best selling ME game.

This idea that peoples anger stops units from selling is in the best terms misguided, There is an old saying that any publicity is good publicity... In a capitolist society notions of fairness to your feelings are irrelevant.

This is not any form of proof and very importantly disproof that BW has something planned... The sales figures do difinitively prove one thing... The sales are not being hurt by the what some will call backlash and what others would call free publicity... ME3 is on track to be the best selling ME. 

It's going to hurt them going forwards, genius. You know, once all the people that have been avoiding spoilers like the pox finish the game and go "WTF?!?!"

Of course ME3's sales arent really affected. No one is reading spoilers, and those few that are do are saying "it can't possibly be that bad".

However, if the Indoctrination Theory is correct and BW releases an awesome continuination & ending as a free dlc, I think ME3 will not hurt BW future sales. People in the future will realize BW may mess with us a little bit to make an artistic point, but will feel assured they are going to get the BW quality game they expect.

Moo.

[disfunktional]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

disfunktional wrote...

 I do not understand this consistent argument being echoed that the ending has some how "financially" hurt Cerber... I mean EA or BW? It has moved over 2.4 million units in less the 2 weeks... In some places the game has not even been out for a week.

To give you some perspective ME1 sold a total to date 2.97 million... This inlcudes Xbox full price discs, Reduced priced discs, Market place downloads and all forms of PC release.

ME2 total 3.98 million.

So to recap in a few weeks we have well crossed selling over half of the best selling ME game.

This idea that peoples anger stops units from selling is in the best terms misguided, There is an old saying that any publicity is good publicity... In a capitolist society notions of fairness to your feelings are irrelevant.

This is not any form of proof and very importantly disproof that BW has something planned... The sales figures do difinitively prove one thing... The sales are not being hurt by the what some will call backlash and what others would call free publicity... ME3 is on track to be the best selling ME. 

It's going to hurt them going forwards, genius. You know, once all the people that have been avoiding spoilers like the pox finish the game and go "WTF?!?!"

Of course ME3's sales arent really affected. No one is reading spoilers, and those few that are do are saying "it can't possibly be that bad".

You clearly misundertood the context and meaning of my post. 

A couple of points:

People keep saying this is currently hurting EA financially... Not so.

Many peoples disbelief that this could not be planned hinges on an arguement that is baseless and has no merit... EA is somehow being hurt by all this publicity. 

Re read the thread and my post before addressing what I have said... "genius"... Or don't.

[Cucobr]

Hold the Line!

Actualy the IT is the only way retake the awesomeness of Mass Effect. The only theory acceptable, the only end that Shepard wake up.

[mattynutz]

I think that BW made a huge mistake with this game. One that came from a culture that lacked perspective and a filtering mechanism for bad ideas coupled with pressure for cash grabs (multiplayer) from above. Nothing was planned. It is possible, sadly probable, that nothing is planned to "save" the title. The PR hit that they took is a big one. There is egg on a lot of faces right now. It just wouldn't be worth the risk. Corporate culture is all about safe bets. They THOUGHT they were making one and they were wrong. They tried some crafty maneuvers with this board and their other PR outlets, but that isn't working like they'd hoped either.

The big thing they had planned was a spring vacation in Rio for the bigwigs while they celebrated their brilliant decisions. Unfortunately, the plan has already backfired. So now, we MIGHT get a fix. Might. But there is a whole flock of crow to eat first and corporate culture is very bad at chewing on feathers.

[MB957]

I hope so. I too cant comprehend how a professional writing team can do so good for 99 miles and implode on mile 100. it just doesnt make sense to me.

[disfunktional]

If the game continues to be covered by the media and the controversy continues they in no way took a hit... It is a hit.

Dollars speak louder then complaints. And the complaints just generate more interest and the interest turns into dollars... Some people seem to forget there are a LOT of people either just fine or actually happy with the ending.

[justlogme]

Peete wrote...

I think you're in denial (no offense) and that nothing is coming.

It sucks.

This^^

 Bioware just posted this weekend in facebook that there will be no ending DLC.
They have already lost some customers/fans as it is and while they are Listening, and collecting data to see if fans will "just get over it" or if they can fix things with a free copy of DA2 with their next game release. More are swearing off further Bioware purchases.

[thinicer]

Anything Bioware does will involve milking its customers for more $ unfortunately.

[justlogme]

RazorrX wrote...

Well probably like with Dragon Age, they will be silent until it grows quiet and sales bottom out, then they will say that they learned a lot from ME3 and are really going to take the fanbase into account when they are building the next game, so you can really trust that they will not make those same mistakes again.

Then they will hype up and try to get you to buy the next installment in the Mass Effect universe :

Mass Effect: The First Contact War!

   Exaclty

[WildcardCharlie]

justlogme wrote...

Peete wrote...

I think you're in denial (no offense) and that nothing is coming.

It sucks.

This^^

 Bioware just posted this weekend in facebook that there will be no ending DLC.

Which they then deleted and stated several times was someone who was "misinformed" speaking out of turn.

It meant nothing.

[Phoenix NL]

justlogme wrote...

Peete wrote...

I think you're in denial (no offense) and that nothing is coming.

It sucks.

This^^

 Bioware just posted this weekend in facebook that there will be no ending DLC.
They have already lost some customers/fans as it is and while they are Listening, and collecting data to see if fans will "just get over it" or if they can fix things with a free copy of DA2 with their next game release. More are swearing off further Bioware purchases.

Bioware have since retracted that statement saying that nothing is ruled out and that they are carefully considering fan feedback. By no means a guarantee that something will be done about the ending but they haven't ruled it out completely.

[N7Gold]

nikola8 wrote...

No, this is the real end. There isn't something "legendary" coming. Bioware may clarify the ending, but they are not going to wave a wand and make everyone love them again with some sort of new something. This ending was meant to be controversial and divisive. But it was also meant to be "the ending". I find posts where people think that the real ending is coming to be amusing. No, they planned on this being the ending, as hard as it is for people to accept.

Unlike you and other pessimists, I prefer to keep an open mind. If they don't come out with a true ending DLC, that's when all hell will break loose.

[savionen]

disfunktional wrote...

 I do not understand this consistent argument being echoed that the ending has some how "financially" hurt Cerber... I mean EA or BW? It has moved over 2.4 million units in less the 2 weeks... In some places the game has not even been out for a week.

To give you some perspective ME1 sold a total to date 2.97 million... This inlcudes Xbox full price discs, Reduced priced discs, Market place downloads and all forms of PC release.

ME2 total 3.98 million.

So to recap in a few weeks we have well crossed selling over half of the best selling ME game.

This idea that peoples anger stops units from selling is in the best terms misguided, There is an old saying that any publicity is good publicity... In a capitolist society notions of fairness to your feelings are irrelevant.

This is not any form of proof and very importantly disproof that BW has something planned... The sales figures do difinitively prove one thing... The sales are not being hurt by the what some will call backlash and what others would call free publicity... ME3 is on track to be the best selling ME. 

It was also the biggest budgeted game, and the most marketed. So, it's not surprising that it'd overall sell better even if it has a terrible ending. Doesn't mean that the backlash, etc is not affecting it.

Also keep in mind that they might be pushing a bunch of units front-end, but they're not going to get many DLC sales (unless the ending will cost money.)

Modifié par savionen, 19 mars 2012 - 02:44 .

[darkiddd]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

Peete wrote...

I think you're in denial (no offense) and that nothing is coming.

It sucks.

Then I will lose hope in humanity and turn into a bitter old spitefull cynic at the age of 27 -.-

I'm 20. My case is worse.

[Carlthestrange]

[MikeRoz]

Yeah I'm too much of a cynic to believe that. The ending was a last-ditch attempt to make ME into watercooler talk and generate buzz (LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE!). You're supposed to do that with twists and turns DURING the series, not at the very end.

[parrmi22]

No way. There's simply no way that any game developer, regardless of how evil or saintly they are, would deliberately hold back the true ending to of an IP to boost DLC sales. I genuinely feel as if they thought this was a brilliant ending, all "deep" and stuff. All this "we'll discuss the ME3 endings" talk just means they'll try to explain what it means and why they thought it was epic.

Maybe it's just my cynical nature talking, but I don't believe for a second that any ending fix is incoming. It's so sad. However, a small part of my soul is hoping I'm wrong.

[Vigil_N7]

No. No. No. No. No. No!

That would be ridiculous, and quite frankly it would cause outrage if that was intended. This is the END of the trilogy, Bioware owes it to themselves to create the ending that the series deserved.

The endings we got were intentional, there was never supposed to be ending DLC, and quite frankly we shouldn't have to need ending DLC anyway, the idea is preposterous in all honesty.

If that wasn't the ending intended, then it shows the game was rushed and was released too early. There is no excuse for rushing an ending, especially an ending of a trilogy.

[Ender99]

I think they got lazy and sloppy at the end trying to make deadlines, and expected us just to sit back and take it. I for one will not. I am holding the line.

IF, and that's a big if, they planned on doing "legendary" to make up for it, it better be pretty damn legendary and free if they want me to ever get over this.