280 réponses à ce sujet

[Stegoceras]

It's quite clever to be honest, by giving us 3 equally bad endings they have got us speculating on what the better ending was, I'm pretty sure this is what they wanted us to do in the first place. If you honestly think any of the choices is better just realize that in all cases your dooming Galactic civilization in an equally big way with whatever you choose with a varying but equal amount of bad side-effects.

[Myskal1981]

MalevoIence wrote...

Everybody assumes the Reapers are evil.  They are synthetics programmed to reset the Galaxy every 50,000 years or so, they're not evil, and the means of destroying a hive conciousness is not good, nor is killing allies who trusted you and helped you fight these attackers, namely the Geth, and EDI.  And throughout the game you proven, they are a civilization, for all intent and purposes, they are alive; yet you kill them like it was meh, atleast Organics will live

What? So the Reapers are not evil although they killed/harvested trillions of organics in countless cycles, but my Shepard is supposed to be evil because pressumably (the child says so, so it must be true) I kill the Geth and EDI?

In conversations with Legion and EDI they tell you that it is preferable to die instead of betraying your soul and believes. The conversation with EDI regarding betraying prisoners for self-preservation is a good example.

I could say: ok, the Reapers commited genocide, but meh, here is a chance to control them, so I take it, without guarantees that it will work in the long run and against my better judgement that controlling the Reapers is impossible and even if possible should not be seeked.

[wryterra]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Synthesis isn't neutral, it's just another trick:

*image removed*

look at the eyes, IM, Control, Synthesis


Also Shep said once he won't sacrifice who they are, but Synthesis is exactly that.

I can agree with that (bolded part).

As for the image. Has this been shown with a non-default Shep (one without blue eyes)? Just curious. Also, is it that suprising Shep is changing, considering what he is trying to do in either of those ending (regardless of whether you think he is being tricked)? Again just a thought.

My Sheps eyes are green:
http://thundermods.n...th/ME3/shep.png

My shep's eyes were green too. 

http://social.biowar.../index/10186853

Modifié par wryterra, 18 mars 2012 - 04:27 .

[Dot.Shadow]

I just don't see how "saving" the Reapers is a good thing. They're evil, through and through, even if it is just they way they're programmed in such a manner. Keeping them around can bring nothing good.

[xxLDZxx]

one of the many problems of the ending are the maybes.

maybe Shep took control of the reapers and fly theme in the next sun and fry theme,
maybe he is the new overlord, and we will compute pie instate eating it.maybe if a renegade Shep's takes control it happen, MAYBE!

To many maybes and the only hint what is what are the colors.

[Walsh1980]

We simply don't know enough about the Reapers or the Catalyst to make any assumptions about them. What we see is them cruelly massacring people, but how do you know that inside a reapers mind, there isn't a utopian society that is every bit as real as the real world? Maybe you're liquified and instantly transported to virtual Nirvana and would never know the difference.

What the Control ending does is let Shepard tell the reapers to at least leave us alone to our own destiny. If you just see them as an enemy to destroy rather than understand, you're thinking like a renegade.

And again, the endings are so vague, nothing any of us say is true or untrue, so I won't say anybodies ideas are wrong, but neither should anyone say that to me or anyone else.

Modifié par Walsh1980, 18 mars 2012 - 04:38 .

[aapblok]

 There was no good ending <_<

[Fingertrip]

Nope, I disagree.

[detroitmechworks]

The good ending was still color coded...

It was getting three red lights right after the Anderson Sequence...

[xAmilli0n]

Walsh1980 wrote...

We simply don't know enough about the Reapers or the Catalyst to make any assumptions about them. What we see is them cruelly massacring people, but how do you know that inside a reapers mind, there isn't a utopian society that is every bit as real as the real world? Maybe you're liquified and instantly transported to virtual Nirvana and would never know the difference.

What the Control ending does is let Shepard tell the reapers to at least leave us alone to our own destiny. If you just see them as an enemy to destroy rather than understand, you're thinking like a renegade.

And again, the endings are so vague, nothing any of us say is true or untrue, so I won't say anybodies ideas are wrong, but neither should anyone say that to anyone else.

That is a very good way of putting it. Striaght forward, works with what we are shown.  A nice potential alternative to the Indoctrination Theory.

[C Trayne]

The reason i could never choose the blue ending even tho i play primarily paragon is because that is what TIM wanted. After 2 games of hating his **** i could never give in and do exactly what he wanted to do and was trying to do. No screw him Anderson FTW!

[S Atomeha]

shepard was shot in the arm by maurader shields op.

[AwesomeDudex64]

 I disagree. All the endings were bad. The renegade (red) ending wasn't as bad since you get to live but still, they're all bad.

[Myskal1981]

Walsh1980 wrote...

We simply don't know enough about the Reapers or the Catalyst to make any assumptions about them. What we see is them cruelly massacring people, but how do you know that inside a reapers mind, there isn't a utopian society that is every bit as real as the real world? Maybe you're liquified and instantly transported to virtual Nirvana and would never know the difference.

What the Control ending does is let Shepard tell the reapers to at least leave us alone to our own destiny. If you just see them as an enemy to destroy rather than understand, you're thinking like a renegade.

And again, the endings are so vague, nothing any of us say is true or untrue, so I won't say anybodies ideas are wrong, but neither should anyone say that to me or anyone else.

That is exactly the point. You don't know.
So instead of taking the safe route and destroying them, you gamble with control, because you try to understand. What if there is nothing to understand and the Reapers do not have a utopian nirvana?
I do not agree that if I don't try to understand I'm thinking like a renegade. For all I know the starchild already explained the existence and I refuse it, no need for further understanding. I will stick to what I know and that is explained by the first part of your second sentence --> cruelly massacring people.

Now, everyone is entitled to believe that control is a paragon choice as the killing is stopped and you do not commit genocide in the process. I do not think that way.

[xAmilli0n]

Myskal1981 wrote...

Walsh1980 wrote...

We
simply don't know enough about the Reapers or the Catalyst to make any
assumptions about them. What we see is them cruelly massacring people,
but how do you know that inside a reapers mind, there isn't a utopian
society that is every bit as real as the real world? Maybe you're
liquified and instantly transported to virtual Nirvana and would never
know the difference.

What the Control ending does is let Shepard
tell the reapers to at least leave us alone to our own destiny. If you
just see them as an enemy to destroy rather than understand, you're
thinking like a renegade.

And again, the endings are so vague,
nothing any of us say is true or untrue, so I won't say anybodies ideas
are wrong, but neither should anyone say that to me or anyone
else.

That is exactly the point. You don't know.
So
instead of taking the safe route and destroying them, you gamble with
control, because you try to understand. What if there is nothing to
understand and the Reapers do not have a utopian nirvana?
I do not
agree that if I don't try to understand I'm thinking like a renegade.
For all I know the starchild already explained the existence and I
refuse it, no need for further understanding. I will stick to what I
know and that is explained by the first part of your second sentence
--> cruelly massacring people.

Now, everyone is
entitled to believe that control is a paragon choice as the killing is
stopped and you do not commit genocide in the process. I do not think
that way.

Fair enough.  At this point its simply impossible to come up with a conclusive answer for any of the endings without making assumptions.

[Canary Wundaboy]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Urazz wrote...

DocDoomII wrote...

Blue: Highly unethical. 'Sparing' the Reapers but removing them of their free will.
Green: Even more unethical. Tampering with the DNA of all living being in the galaxy without their approval.
Red: Another kind of unethical. Genocide of every synthetic being in the galaxy.

Edit: Forgot the point of the post.

Where the heck is the paragon choice in your RGB ending?

I picked the Destroy ending.  There is no guarantee that all the Geth or EDI was destroyed.  I base this soley on the fact that Shepard is able to survive that ending even though he is part machine.

They're dead, the star kid explicitly states all synthetic life is destroyed. 

They can't be, I chose that ending and EDI walked out of the Normandy afterwards. Plus the kid states that "even you are part synthetic", implying that choice will kill Shephard, however Shephard lives.

[xAmilli0n]

Canary Wundaboy wrote...

They can't be, I chose that ending and EDI walked out of the Normandy afterwards. Plus the kid states that "even you are part synthetic", implying that choice will kill Shephard, however Shephard lives.

Eh, you could argue the explosion of the Citadel would kill Shep.  Hell, I would say Harbinger's laser killed Shep (in every other case, its essentially an instant kill).  Honestly, I don't know what I believe anymore.

[MegumiAzusa]

xAmilli0n wrote...

Canary Wundaboy wrote...

They can't be, I chose that ending and EDI walked out of the Normandy afterwards. Plus the kid states that "even you are part synthetic", implying that choice will kill Shephard, however Shephard lives.

Eh, you could argue the explosion of the Citadel would kill Shep.  Hell, I would say Harbinger's laser killed Shep (in every other case, its essentially an instant kill).  Honestly, I don't know what I believe anymore.

If you watch the scene: the beam stops right in front of Shep.

[blood-dodo]

I know I said I'm done, but let me try to point out your fallacy one last time:
We assume the StarChild cannot be trusted, and you say we are wrong in this assumption.
But for you to refute our ideas, you assume the StarChild tells nothing but the truth, because... Well, you've given no reason, and that's because there is none to give. Either assumption is equally valid.

[Kataigida]

I would like to point out to the OP that you are basically just shooting down anyone's ideas about the ending that is against your own because they are all just assumptions.

However, I would like to make the point that everything that you have said is pretty much an assumption as well. For one, you are assuming that the starchild is telling the truth. There is no evidence to suggest that the starchild is telling the truth, at any given point in time. You only just meet the star child in the last 5 minutes of the game, and he basically gives you an ultimatum about what you can do about the Reapers.

You are assuming it is a good shepard that chooses the control option. What if a Renegade Shepard chooses to control the Reapers? You can't know what Shepard will do because you basically lose most of your control over Shepard in the last few minutes of the game.

You seem to be saying that it is a fact that Shepard is bleeding because Marauder Shields shot him. If you watch though, you can clearly see that Shepard is shot in the arm (because his whole body basically rolls from the shot, which hits the arm or shoulder), whereas in the end, Shepard is holding his gut and bleeding.

You also state that keeping the Reapers alive is paragon because we don't understand the Reapers and because they are living beings. However, it is clearly stated by the starchild (who you firmly believe in) that you control the Reapers. This means that you take away their free will, even though you say that they are living beings.

In short, no matter what side you are on about the ending, whether you like it or hate it, or what theory you believe about it, or even which ending you think is actually paragon or renegade, you can only make assumptions about the ends because BioWare provided so little actual information about the endings, and inplanted a Deus Ex Machina character that you have never met before or know anything about to guide your final choice in the closing matter of the Reapers.

Basically, it is impossible say that any ending is true, or even if one ending is paragon or renegade, when so little information has actually been provided to us.

[Edit]

If I mixed up any of your points, I apologize. It was a little difficult to try and bring order to your thoughts since some of them are scattered about the forum posts.

Modifié par Kataigida, 18 mars 2012 - 07:38 .

[gmboy902]

I don't buy into it, but maybe the indoctrination theory is people hoping that there's more to the ending than, literally, red and blue (and green).

[The Night Mammoth]

Canary Wundaboy wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Urazz wrote...

DocDoomII wrote...

Blue: Highly unethical. 'Sparing' the Reapers but removing them of their free will.
Green: Even more unethical. Tampering with the DNA of all living being in the galaxy without their approval.
Red: Another kind of unethical. Genocide of every synthetic being in the galaxy.

Edit: Forgot the point of the post.

Where the heck is the paragon choice in your RGB ending?

I picked the Destroy ending.  There is no guarantee that all the Geth or EDI was destroyed.  I base this soley on the fact that Shepard is able to survive that ending even though he is part machine.

They're dead, the star kid explicitly states all synthetic life is destroyed. 

They can't be, I chose that ending and EDI walked out of the Normandy afterwards. Plus the kid states that "even you are part synthetic", implying that choice will kill Shephard, however Shephard lives.

She can't have. No playthrough I've ever watched or actually played myself has EDI walk out of the Normandy, since she's synthetic.

Plus Shepard is only partly synthetic, and he clearly doesn't wake up on the Citadel, since it was destroyed in a massive explosion. 

[TheMadBlimper]

Marauder Shields very clearly shoots Shepard in the shoulder.

[Kataigida]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Canary Wundaboy wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Urazz wrote...

DocDoomII wrote...

Blue: Highly unethical. 'Sparing' the Reapers but removing them of their free will.
Green: Even more unethical. Tampering with the DNA of all living being in the galaxy without their approval.
Red: Another kind of unethical. Genocide of every synthetic being in the galaxy.

Edit: Forgot the point of the post.

Where the heck is the paragon choice in your RGB ending?

I picked the Destroy ending.  There is no guarantee that all the Geth or EDI was destroyed.  I base this soley on the fact that Shepard is able to survive that ending even though he is part machine.

They're dead, the star kid explicitly states all synthetic life is destroyed. 

They can't be, I chose that ending and EDI walked out of the Normandy afterwards. Plus the kid states that "even you are part synthetic", implying that choice will kill Shephard, however Shephard lives.

She can't have. No playthrough I've ever watched or actually played myself has EDI walk out of the Normandy, since she's synthetic.

Plus Shepard is only partly synthetic, and he clearly doesn't wake up on the Citadel, since it was destroyed in a massive explosion. 

I think if you play the final mission with your love interest + EDI in your squad, Joker comes out, followed by your LI, followed by EDI. I'm not entirely sure though. I would go find out myself, but I'd rather not have to play through the ending again...