280 réponses à ce sujet

[MalevoIence]

Baihu1983 wrote...

Its a trick, all the good options are red in the last part

That's a lie created by fans who wish to read more into what isn't there, Im not being dismissive, I'm being realistic

[DocDoomII]

Urazz wrote...

DocDoomII wrote...

Blue: Highly unethical. 'Sparing' the Reapers but removing them of their free will.
Green: Even more unethical. Tampering with the DNA of all living being in the galaxy without their approval.
Red: Another kind of unethical. Genocide of every synthetic being in the galaxy.

Edit: Forgot the point of the post.

Where the heck is the paragon choice in your RGB ending?

I picked the Destroy ending.  There is no guarantee that all the Geth or EDI was destroyed.  I base this soley on the fact that Shepard is able to survive that ending even though he is part machine.

I am referring purely to what the fairy kid tells you. He tells you that the red option will kill every synthetic. If there is no actual proof of this in the ending video it's not relevant.

The last breath scene is halfassed and controversial at best. Maybe Shep is braindead cause all his/hers implants shut off, but somehow the body is still breathing.
Too short and to cryptic to hold real meaning. It was clearly just added to further spin the theme of "Speculation".

[bboynexus]

Because, Malevo, the series has always been about determinism vs self-determinism. It's clear that the Starchild believes 'Synthesis' to be the best option, which goes completely against that philosophy. The entire reason the player is even able to dock the Crucible is because they largely support self-determinism. There's no way transforming everything in the galaxy against their will falls in line with that.

[IanPolaris]

MalevoIence wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

Haasth wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

Haasth wrote...

Not all paragon options are to save lives.

I think it should be quite clear they are steering you into the wrong direction, wanting you to believe keeping the Reapers alive is the better outcome. They keep feeding you lies to begin with "An old man that only sees the world through the barrel of his gun", I beg your pardon? That is pretty much the exact opposite of what we know of Anderson.

The Space God Machine Kid is a lie.

MalevoIence wrote...

The indoctrination theory is just us overthinking things which ARE that black and white, or in this case Red and Blue

Then what is green?

Green is neutral; middle ground stance;

so many are trying to find a deeper meaning to this when it isn't there and everything IS just that black and white; Paragon has always been to save life in all its forms, Renegade has always been to end it

But that is just simply not true.
Paragon has NOT always been to save life in all its forms.
Renegade has NOT always been to end it. 

They have very little to do with that action. They are a means of how your Shepard reacts to a situation, harshly or more diplomatically in most cases. They are pretty simple, but it doesn't boil down to "Save life or destroy it". 

Name a Paragon instance that WASNT to preserve life, and I mean life by terms of entire races

And that's precisely what it boils down to, Galactic Peace, or the destruction of all synthetic "life"

Easy.  In Mass Effect 1, the paragon choice is to turn off life support for a brain-dead boy after his mother is defeated.  I am sure there are others.

-Polaris

The boy is braindead, and would hardly call him a race

You are moving goalposts.  In this case the paragon choice kills the body so you are incorrect.  I have shown a valid counterexample.

-Polaris

[Miphious]

MalevoIence wrote...

Haasth wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

Haasth wrote...

Not all paragon options are to save lives.

I think it should be quite clear they are steering you into the wrong direction, wanting you to believe keeping the Reapers alive is the better outcome. They keep feeding you lies to begin with "An old man that only sees the world through the barrel of his gun", I beg your pardon? That is pretty much the exact opposite of what we know of Anderson.

The Space God Machine Kid is a lie.

MalevoIence wrote...

The indoctrination theory is just us overthinking things which ARE that black and white, or in this case Red and Blue

Then what is green?

Green is neutral; middle ground stance;

so many are trying to find a deeper meaning to this when it isn't there and everything IS just that black and white; Paragon has always been to save life in all its forms, Renegade has always been to end it

But that is just simply not true.
Paragon has NOT always been to save life in all its forms.
Renegade has NOT always been to end it. 

They have very little to do with that action. They are a means of how your Shepard reacts to a situation, harshly or more diplomatically in most cases. They are pretty simple, but it doesn't boil down to "Save life or destroy it". 

Name a Paragon instance that WASNT to preserve life, and I mean life by terms of entire races

And that's precisely what it boils down to, Galactic Peace, or the destruction of all synthetic "life"

Saving the breeder queen was a renegade action in my game. Leaving her to die was the paragon choice. 

[Kohlstream]

I like to think that the colours represented what the star child thought the choices were, rather than it actually being the truth. I played as a Paragon mostly but i never thought Renegade = bad for the most part. In fact i chose renegade options here and there because i thought that was the best course of action rather than trying to be a goodie-goodie all the time.

[jcmccorm]

You may have trouble here deciding what is good or bad because the endings simply don't make sense.

Here is what the blue ending felt like to me:


...and the other endings were just as bad.

Here is what the Synthesis ending felt like to me:

[The Night Mammoth]

MalevoIence wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

If by saving you mean dooming everyone to a slow and painful death by starvation or infighting, or an immediate death through incineration by supernova, or an eventual death when the Reapers return.

Who says the Reapers will Return? You?  And you destroy the relay anyway with either option

More a possibility than a certainty.

But yes, most life in the galaxy is doomed to an immediate or eventual death with the destruction of the mass relays. 

I could say that about the Indoctrination theory, but Im not putting together a bunch of screen captures to prove what Im saying is the right thing, I dont have to.

I don't believe it's true either. I think Bioware were laying the groundwork for something similar, with the child at the start and Shepard's dreams, but they ran out of time to release before the end of the financial quarter, so put together this shambolic mess. Whether they adress it with DLC is uncertain. 

What IS certain is that the Reapers COULD return, thus beginning the cycle again. 

Eitherway, all instances destroy the mass relays, and with the epilogue, it's obvious it doesn't.  It somehow destroys the mass relays without destroying the entire system.

It could destroy the system, but it wont destroy the sector. There are still multiple systems grouped around the mass relays. They'll survive, without being able to leave. Places like Palaven and Thessia could have been wiped out in a supernova. Where the old man is standing is completely unknown. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 18 mars 2012 - 01:28 .

[Mixxer5]

MalevoIence wrote...

Haasth wrote...

Not all paragon options are to save lives.

I think it should be quite clear they are steering you into the wrong direction, wanting you to believe keeping the Reapers alive is the better outcome. They keep feeding you lies to begin with "An old man that only sees the world through the barrel of his gun", I beg your pardon? That is pretty much the exact opposite of what we know of Anderson.

The Space God Machine Kid is a lie.

MalevoIence wrote...

The indoctrination theory is just us overthinking things which ARE that black and white, or in this case Red and Blue

Then what is green?

Green is neutral; middle ground stance;

so many are trying to find a deeper meaning to this when it isn't there and everything IS just that black and white; Paragon has always been to save life in all its forms, Renegade has always been to end it

You take very "Black and White" morality version. Reapers are- if not evil- at least great threat to all galaxy. Also- "assuming contol" over them can lead to continuing their old "tradition" later.

[MalevoIence]

BelnickISMYNICKNAME wrote...

bit confused about the paragon ending, if it was that i picked

Edi(btw MAJOR ******....) tells me that sad story about she is now is having feeling thx to me etc etc

liara have dream sex or something right before

does you team die ? meaning should you only bring members in the final push that you want to die ?

I had 87% ready and ~6400(maxed out, nothing else existed but the cerberus base)
I picked to kill the reapers as that seemed the only way to get back to my lover liara, but no, she and joker flee the earth when i kill the reapers and end up a few million light years away from earth

Anderssons Die for no reason(picks blue option everytimes till illusive man does a Saren and shoots him self in the head)

and then an old guy and a child tanking and after that a rock with a n7 tag tries to breathe

I mean wtf ???

how can that be the paragon ending ?
loved ones fled and are millions lightyears away in a crached ship, forever gone from earth and me if i now somehow survived

and why did edi have to die ?

did all the millions of ppl in the citadel die when it exploded `?

no this feels VERY rushed out, like they started out with an ending and then, "****! the relese date is soon here"

it is knight of the old republic 2 all over again : (

You pick the red option everytime, Anderson still dies.  And the ppl in the citadel I think had already been processed by the Reapers in any instance by the time you talk to starchild.  Saving everyone, Synthetics and Organics is the one true Paragon option, there isn't some mystery conspiracy alot of ppl try to make you believe simply for the fact they cant cope with the simplistic ending

[The Night Mammoth]

MalevoIence wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

The green ending is no different to the control ending.

why it's a neutral stance, you're eliminating synthetics but fusing them with organics

Which doesn't change anything.

Ofcourse there is, Reapers go away in control ending to who knows where, and neutral ending we all fuse together; completely different

Fusing together doesn't change anything. 

[S Atomeha]

Paragon is about staying true to your morals or some semblance of pre-ascribed morals(depending on your point of view[like the brain dead guy/president]) Red is the destruction of reapers, it is, and has been your only goal the entire series. anything else and you've failed.

[MalevoIence]

Mixxer5 wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

Haasth wrote...

Not all paragon options are to save lives.

I think it should be quite clear they are steering you into the wrong direction, wanting you to believe keeping the Reapers alive is the better outcome. They keep feeding you lies to begin with "An old man that only sees the world through the barrel of his gun", I beg your pardon? That is pretty much the exact opposite of what we know of Anderson.

The Space God Machine Kid is a lie.

MalevoIence wrote...

The indoctrination theory is just us overthinking things which ARE that black and white, or in this case Red and Blue

Then what is green?

Green is neutral; middle ground stance;

so many are trying to find a deeper meaning to this when it isn't there and everything IS just that black and white; Paragon has always been to save life in all its forms, Renegade has always been to end it

You take very "Black and White" morality version. Reapers are- if not evil- at least great threat to all galaxy. Also- "assuming contol" over them can lead to continuing their old "tradition" later.

And you are taking things very grey when the game itself is very Black and White in its decision making.  And you're assuming Starchild was lying, Im assuming he's telling the truth.  Reapers truly believe they are bringing order to chaos, and since no other race developed the crucible, that gives you some special leverage that allows you to manipulate them in some form, unless as the starchild says they were already under their control which the Illusive man was.  Harbinger, none of them ever lied, they've always been honest, even if that honesty was told in a deep, raspy, scary voice.

[Deflagratio]

MalevoIence wrote...

The indoctrination theory is just us overthinking things which ARE that black and white, or in this case Red and Blue

I don't think it's giving Bioware too much credit to assume they're not stupid enough to believe Shepard would survive the desintegrating Citadel, a high atmospheric reentry, and the rusulting massive impact of the space Station.

To me, the "Shepard Lives" cutscene is proof positive that the events after Harbinger glasses the Hammer Team were not a physical reality. Simply Harbinger attempting to break the will of the species by subverting humanity's lynchpin.

Maybe that is giving Bioware too much credit, but there's a lot of prescedent, even in Mass Effect 3 alone, that says it's not unreasonable to think that.

[Ricvenart]

I'm sorry but give me signs that reapization actually saved anything of the species they are made out of? That theres anything beyond arrogance and ignorance of thier own purpose left to save. All they want is produce shelves.

At least green turning people into part synthetics seems to keep thier original selves intack. Which arguably is a more paragon thing as it implies free will not control.

[bboynexus]

If there is no follow-up, there's no reason why people can't interpret the ending as a hallucination. Who are you to tell them otherwise?

[Lugaidster]

Ah yes, "The Good Ending". We have dismissed that myth.

[MalevoIence]

S Atomeha wrote...

Paragon is about staying true to your morals or some semblance of pre-ascribed morals(depending on your point of view[like the brain dead guy/president]) Red is the destruction of reapers, it is, and has been your only goal the entire series. anything else and you've failed.

Let me think of the equivalent..... Matrix 3.... Despite all the killing, and enslaving, eventually the hero had no choice but to trust the machines that there will be a peace at the cost of his own life.  These are the same machines killing humans for the last 3 movies, and instead of wanting to destroy them, they started talking about peace, which ended up the correct path.  Hate using that crappy movie as a reference, but it's the best comparison to the Mass Effect 3 ending I could think of.

It isn't failing to NOT kill the Reapers.  It's preserving all life in the Galaxy, whether it's synthetic or organic

[MalevoIence]

bboynexus wrote...

If there is no follow-up, there's no reason why people can't interpret the ending as a hallucination. Who are you to tell them otherwise?

Im not telling you to think like me Mister Defensive Pants.  Just telling you I believe all of you who believe the Indoctrination Theory is correct, are completely wrong that's all, think what you like

[The Night Mammoth]

Preserving? You don't preserve anyone by dooming them to a slow death by starvation or infighting or an immediate death by incineration in a supernova.

[bboynexus]

Right. Stranding the Turians and Quarians on Earth is...problematic.

Modifié par bboynexus, 18 mars 2012 - 01:39 .

[Harorrd]

Blue is the renegade way,

[MalevoIence]

Deflagratio wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

The indoctrination theory is just us overthinking things which ARE that black and white, or in this case Red and Blue

I don't think it's giving Bioware too much credit to assume they're not stupid enough to believe Shepard would survive the desintegrating Citadel, a high atmospheric reentry, and the rusulting massive impact of the space Station.

To me, the "Shepard Lives" cutscene is proof positive that the events after Harbinger glasses the Hammer Team were not a physical reality. Simply Harbinger attempting to break the will of the species by subverting humanity's lynchpin.

Maybe that is giving Bioware too much credit, but there's a lot of prescedent, even in Mass Effect 3 alone, that says it's not unreasonable to think that.

It wasn't any secret The Illusive Man was indoctrinated....... wasn't any secret Saren was indoctrinated..... everything has been very straight forward in this series without any twist and turns that I can see.  Despite the complexity of taking game 1 and 2 to influence 3, I don't see any complexity beyond, bad guy, good guy, and misunderstood guy within the story itself

[MalevoIence]

Harorrd wrote...

Blue is the renegade way,

Blue is the Paragon way, thinking it's the Renegade way is because you're spending too much time reading the indoctrination theory threads

[Mixxer5]

MalevoIence wrote...

Mixxer5 wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

Haasth wrote...

Not all paragon options are to save lives.

I think it should be quite clear they are steering you into the wrong direction, wanting you to believe keeping the Reapers alive is the better outcome. They keep feeding you lies to begin with "An old man that only sees the world through the barrel of his gun", I beg your pardon? That is pretty much the exact opposite of what we know of Anderson.

The Space God Machine Kid is a lie.

MalevoIence wrote...

The indoctrination theory is just us overthinking things which ARE that black and white, or in this case Red and Blue

Then what is green?

Green is neutral; middle ground stance;

so many are trying to find a deeper meaning to this when it isn't there and everything IS just that black and white; Paragon has always been to save life in all its forms, Renegade has always been to end it

You take very "Black and White" morality version. Reapers are- if not evil- at least great threat to all galaxy. Also- "assuming contol" over them can lead to continuing their old "tradition" later.

And you are taking things very grey when the game itself is very Black and White in its decision making.  And you're assuming Starchild was lying, Im assuming he's telling the truth.  Reapers truly believe they are bringing order to chaos, and since no other race developed the crucible, that gives you some special leverage that allows you to manipulate them in some form, unless as the starchild says they were already under their control which the Illusive man was.  Harbinger, none of them ever lied, they've always been honest, even if that honesty was told in a deep, raspy, scary voice.

Nah ME (wasn't supposed to be) isn't Black and White. Saving Rachni Queen- sure it don't have any impact now. But originally they had much bigger sigificance.