280 réponses à ce sujet

[wryterra]

MalevoIence wrote...

wryterra wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

wryterra wrote...

Harorrd wrote...

If i were a evil master ghost child i would replace blue with red to confuse the Sheppard

*like button*

If...... evil......... confuse........... woulda, coulda, and speculation

It was a fun quote. It made me smile because it was funny. After all serious debate has gone out the window in this thread a long time ago because you argue against people saying that you should take the evidence of the videos at face value but refuse to accept that face value means Shepard is vaporised. You also argue using the illusion of false choice, unwilling to accept that it's possible you AND the indoctrination theory are both wrong. 

So, I might as well get a laugh out of the thread at this point. 

The face value took the Reapers off Earth and into deep space leaving everyone alive...... yea, I take facts at face value

The face value showed Shepard vaporised. You have shown no reason why, taken at face value, the Reapers leaving = Shepard surviving. Coincidence is not causality. We do not SEE Shepard leaving with them. At face value, Shepard is vaporised. That is what we are shown. 

You have also not accepted that you can be wrong *as well* as the indoctrination theory. 

[toddmetzger]

I liked the endings. ME has never been KOTOR, there is not straightforward good and evil. When we decided what to do with the Rachni our choice was murder, or risk another rachni wars. Neither decision is a happy outcome, but Shepard must act how s/he sees fit.

In order to save Kelly from Cerberus you need to choose a renegade dialogue option and basically shout at her. In ME1 you can threaten people who work for Fist to make them run away so you don't have to kill them. Renegade and Paragon have never been good and evil; they are means to an ends, and a general attitude.

Mass Effect is about morality. It's about the complexity and subtlety of simply acting. That's why there are two morality bars, instead of the kotor system of light or dark. Sometimes doing the right thing isn't hard because doing the wrong thing is easier, it's hard because we cannot see all outcomes and the lesser of two evils isn't lesser by much. The game talks a lot about "tough decisions". What were you expecting this decision to be? Defeat some end of game boss or die? Save everyone or kill everyone?

[Gorthor]

No because ME3 was a perfect game before that ending sequence, it really was. There is no reason for them to just suddenly become bad game designers and forget to put an ammo per clip limit on the pistol.

The whole last sequence was trying to take your mind off of the "its just that simple" notion so you wouldn't destroy the reapers. It relied on you, as the person, to realize what was going on. Even Shepard tried to fool you himself when he said "So the Illusive man got it right after all...."

[MalevoIence]

ziloe wrote...

No. The destroy ending was good. The rest mean the Reapers won.

wrong, everyone one in Blue Paragon option, because everyone lives, destroy kills them, geth, EDI; under your assumption and speculation the starchild was lying

[MalevoIence]

Gorthor wrote...

No because ME3 was a perfect game before that ending sequence, it really was. There is no reason for them to just suddenly become bad game designers and forget to put an ammo per clip limit on the pistol.

The whole last sequence was trying to take your mind off of the "its just that simple" notion so you wouldn't destroy the reapers. It relied on you, as the person, to realize what was going on. Even Shepard tried to fool you himself when he said "So the Illusive man got it right after all...."

30 minutes into the game, Shepard was doing an exorcist thing with his head following the info droid Glitch around...... what was a perfect game now?

[Gorthor]

As well, how do you explain the scene after choosing the "Red" option where you sees Shepard's chest with his N7 dogtag and he suddenly intakes a breath of air, signaling that he is living.

It was obvious to me as soon as I realized my pistol never ran out of ammo, I find it really hard to believe more people don't realize this.

[MalevoIence]

wryterra wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

wryterra wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

wryterra wrote...

Harorrd wrote...

If i were a evil master ghost child i would replace blue with red to confuse the Sheppard

*like button*

If...... evil......... confuse........... woulda, coulda, and speculation

It was a fun quote. It made me smile because it was funny. After all serious debate has gone out the window in this thread a long time ago because you argue against people saying that you should take the evidence of the videos at face value but refuse to accept that face value means Shepard is vaporised. You also argue using the illusion of false choice, unwilling to accept that it's possible you AND the indoctrination theory are both wrong. 

So, I might as well get a laugh out of the thread at this point. 

The face value took the Reapers off Earth and into deep space leaving everyone alive...... yea, I take facts at face value

The face value showed Shepard vaporised. You have shown no reason why, taken at face value, the Reapers leaving = Shepard surviving. Coincidence is not causality. We do not SEE Shepard leaving with them. At face value, Shepard is vaporised. That is what we are shown. 

You have also not accepted that you can be wrong *as well* as the indoctrination theory. 

God... I must repeat myself  50 times with you ppl.  compare what Legion did with the Geth, that's what Shepard did with the Reapers..... ffs

[Gorthor]

MalevoIence wrote...

Gorthor wrote...

No because ME3 was a perfect game before that ending sequence, it really was. There is no reason for them to just suddenly become bad game designers and forget to put an ammo per clip limit on the pistol.

The whole last sequence was trying to take your mind off of the "its just that simple" notion so you wouldn't destroy the reapers. It relied on you, as the person, to realize what was going on. Even Shepard tried to fool you himself when he said "So the Illusive man got it right after all...."

30 minutes into the game, Shepard was doing an exorcist thing with his head following the info droid Glitch around...... what was a perfect game now?

You are just dodging the whole thing now. I've given you points that you cannot deny.

[MalevoIence]

Gorthor wrote...

As well, how do you explain the scene after choosing the "Red" option where you sees Shepard's chest with his N7 dogtag and he suddenly intakes a breath of air, signaling that he is living.

It was obvious to me as soon as I realized my pistol never ran out of ammo, I find it really hard to believe more people don't realize this.

So.... he's alive.... and?  Technically he's alive in the Reaper mind telling them to leave Earth, so what's your point?

[MalevoIence]

Gorthor wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

Gorthor wrote...

No because ME3 was a perfect game before that ending sequence, it really was. There is no reason for them to just suddenly become bad game designers and forget to put an ammo per clip limit on the pistol.

The whole last sequence was trying to take your mind off of the "its just that simple" notion so you wouldn't destroy the reapers. It relied on you, as the person, to realize what was going on. Even Shepard tried to fool you himself when he said "So the Illusive man got it right after all...."

30 minutes into the game, Shepard was doing an exorcist thing with his head following the info droid Glitch around...... what was a perfect game now?

You are just dodging the whole thing now. I've given you points that you cannot deny.

Like? Pistol that didn't run out of ammo? It was a sequence, life bar, powers, everything was gone.  Your trying to comb through it very carefully, trying to find tidbits of facts that are in your mind

Marauder shot Shepard, that's how he got the bullet wound, tendrils came from the IM controlling Shepard to shoot Anderson which disappeared after IM died.  And as for the gun, it didn't matter in the game, was meant to be an emotional dramatic race to the finish, not some conspiracy theory drawn up by the lonely

Modifié par MalevoIence, 18 mars 2012 - 03:04 .

[Zepp95]

If you chose the 'control' ending, would it mean the Reapers would return at some point? Without the mass relays? That would only condemn the future galaxy to a slow and painful death if they do return.

I'd like to think Legion and the Geth would understand why I chose the destroy ending. I mean...it's not like they can't create more geth, and there is an awful lot of dead reaper tech lying about.

[wryterra]

MalevoIence wrote...

wryterra wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

wryterra wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

wryterra wrote...

Harorrd wrote...

If i were a evil master ghost child i would replace blue with red to confuse the Sheppard

*like button*

If...... evil......... confuse........... woulda, coulda, and speculation

It was a fun quote. It made me smile because it was funny. After all serious debate has gone out the window in this thread a long time ago because you argue against people saying that you should take the evidence of the videos at face value but refuse to accept that face value means Shepard is vaporised. You also argue using the illusion of false choice, unwilling to accept that it's possible you AND the indoctrination theory are both wrong. 

So, I might as well get a laugh out of the thread at this point. 

The face value took the Reapers off Earth and into deep space leaving everyone alive...... yea, I take facts at face value

The face value showed Shepard vaporised. You have shown no reason why, taken at face value, the Reapers leaving = Shepard surviving. Coincidence is not causality. We do not SEE Shepard leaving with them. At face value, Shepard is vaporised. That is what we are shown. 

You have also not accepted that you can be wrong *as well* as the indoctrination theory. 

God... I must repeat myself  50 times with you ppl.  compare what Legion did with the Geth, that's what Shepard did with the Reapers..... ffs

That's in the video? Who says it? Where is it shown? 

This is why I dislike your argument. Anyone who objects to you by interpreting what they saw in a way that disagrees with you is told that the ending does not SHOW what they are saying is true. 

You, however, have assumed that what happens to Shepard is the same as what Legion did with the Geth but that is no more visible in the video than anyone else's theory.

When someone disagrees, it's imagination, when you say something it's God, so obvious you have to repeat yourself... 

So show me the evidence, in the ending video, that when taken at face value PROVES that Shepard was not vaporised (which is what is shown as direct evidence) and instead turned into an AI who distributed his self-awareness amongst independant network AI hubs to modify them slightly into an independant operating mode and making them into true AI individuals. 

[MalevoIence]

Zepp95 wrote...

If you chose the 'control' ending, would it mean the Reapers would return at some point? Without the mass relays? That would only condemn the future galaxy to a slow and painful death if they do return.

I'd like to think Legion and the Geth would understand why I chose the destroy ending. I mean...it's not like they can't create more geth, and there is an awful lot of dead reaper tech lying about.

Them returning is an assumption, the fact is that they left

[Gorthor]

MalevoIence wrote...

Gorthor wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

Gorthor wrote...

No because ME3 was a perfect game before that ending sequence, it really was. There is no reason for them to just suddenly become bad game designers and forget to put an ammo per clip limit on the pistol.

The whole last sequence was trying to take your mind off of the "its just that simple" notion so you wouldn't destroy the reapers. It relied on you, as the person, to realize what was going on. Even Shepard tried to fool you himself when he said "So the Illusive man got it right after all...."

30 minutes into the game, Shepard was doing an exorcist thing with his head following the info droid Glitch around...... what was a perfect game now?

You are just dodging the whole thing now. I've given you points that you cannot deny.

Like? Pistol that didn't run out of ammo? It was a sequence, life bar, powers, everything was gone.  Your trying to comb through it very carefully, trying to find tidbits of facts that are in your mind

I gave you 5 or 6 points...you refuted one with the Maruader shooting Shepard.

The Tendrils were not the Illusive Man controlling you, it was the indoctrination that the Reapers had been using on you since the start, just in a very desparate manner.

[cactusberry]

None of the endings are Paragon/Renegade...

[wryterra]

MalevoIence wrote...

Zepp95 wrote...

If you chose the 'control' ending, would it mean the Reapers would return at some point? Without the mass relays? That would only condemn the future galaxy to a slow and painful death if they do return.

I'd like to think Legion and the Geth would understand why I chose the destroy ending. I mean...it's not like they can't create more geth, and there is an awful lot of dead reaper tech lying about.

Them returning is an assumption, the fact is that they left

That Shepard didn't die when he was vaporised is an assumption. If you apply rules to other peoples' arguments you must apply them to your own. 

[MalevoIence]

wryterra wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

wryterra wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

wryterra wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

wryterra wrote...

Harorrd wrote...

If i were a evil master ghost child i would replace blue with red to confuse the Sheppard

*like button*

If...... evil......... confuse........... woulda, coulda, and speculation

It was a fun quote. It made me smile because it was funny. After all serious debate has gone out the window in this thread a long time ago because you argue against people saying that you should take the evidence of the videos at face value but refuse to accept that face value means Shepard is vaporised. You also argue using the illusion of false choice, unwilling to accept that it's possible you AND the indoctrination theory are both wrong. 

So, I might as well get a laugh out of the thread at this point. 

The face value took the Reapers off Earth and into deep space leaving everyone alive...... yea, I take facts at face value

The face value showed Shepard vaporised. You have shown no reason why, taken at face value, the Reapers leaving = Shepard surviving. Coincidence is not causality. We do not SEE Shepard leaving with them. At face value, Shepard is vaporised. That is what we are shown. 

You have also not accepted that you can be wrong *as well* as the indoctrination theory. 

God... I must repeat myself  50 times with you ppl.  compare what Legion did with the Geth, that's what Shepard did with the Reapers..... ffs

That's in the video? Who says it? Where is it shown? 

This is why I dislike your argument. Anyone who objects to you by interpreting what they saw in a way that disagrees with you is told that the ending does not SHOW what they are saying is true. 

You, however, have assumed that what happens to Shepard is the same as what Legion did with the Geth but that is no more visible in the video than anyone else's theory.

When someone disagrees, it's imagination, when you say something it's God, so obvious you have to repeat yourself... 

So show me the evidence, in the ending video, that when taken at face value PROVES that Shepard was not vaporised (which is what is shown as direct evidence) and instead turned into an AI who distributed his self-awareness amongst independant network AI hubs to modify them slightly into an independant operating mode and making them into true AI individuals. 

Shepard asks, then I can make the Reapers leave, starchild says yes, Shepard integrates, if it wasn't the case that he integrates, Reapers would have just destroyed everything

[Gorthor]

None of the options are Paragon or Renegade.

Two are you failing to fight off the effects of Indoctrination, one is you fighting it off and waking up.

If you don't destroy the Reapers, the Reapers destroy the rest of the galaxy and the cycle continues. There is only one option to continue the game.

[MalevoIence]

wryterra wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

Zepp95 wrote...

If you chose the 'control' ending, would it mean the Reapers would return at some point? Without the mass relays? That would only condemn the future galaxy to a slow and painful death if they do return.

I'd like to think Legion and the Geth would understand why I chose the destroy ending. I mean...it's not like they can't create more geth, and there is an awful lot of dead reaper tech lying about.

Them returning is an assumption, the fact is that they left

lol, another one who thinks he's clever, the child says Shepard will control the Reapers.... "control" I can't control ppl if Im dead.  His conciousness is inside the Reaper hive mind which controlled them to "leave" Earth peacefully, that's not an assumption, very sure I saw them just pick up and go
That Shepard didn't die when he was vaporised is an assumption. If you apply rules to other peoples' arguments you must apply them to your own. 

[ashwind]

Heh. What to believe, lets see.

1. A company that launches a game that is incomplete because they want to trick the players, agonize them and then release a DLC (free or not) so that they can say "SUCKA! I GOTCHA"

2. Fans who are so depress that they make up a theory of their own and "indoctrinate" themselves to deal with their emotional ordeal.

I find it extremely hard to umm... believe a business entity would do that. I find it exceedingly easy to believe that desperate people goto any length to make themselves feel better.

[MalevoIence]

Gorthor wrote...

None of the options are Paragon or Renegade.

Two are you failing to fight off the effects of Indoctrination, one is you fighting it off and waking up.

If you don't destroy the Reapers, the Reapers destroy the rest of the galaxy and the cycle continues. There is only one option to continue the game.

Your assuming Starchild lied, and what.... Reapers just picking up and leaving was them saying "Ha! Gotcha, were actually going to kill you all" ???

[wryterra]

MalevoIence wrote...

wryterra wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

wryterra wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

wryterra wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

wryterra wrote...

Harorrd wrote...

If i were a evil master ghost child i would replace blue with red to confuse the Sheppard

*like button*

If...... evil......... confuse........... woulda, coulda, and speculation

It was a fun quote. It made me smile because it was funny. After all serious debate has gone out the window in this thread a long time ago because you argue against people saying that you should take the evidence of the videos at face value but refuse to accept that face value means Shepard is vaporised. You also argue using the illusion of false choice, unwilling to accept that it's possible you AND the indoctrination theory are both wrong. 

So, I might as well get a laugh out of the thread at this point. 

The face value took the Reapers off Earth and into deep space leaving everyone alive...... yea, I take facts at face value

The face value showed Shepard vaporised. You have shown no reason why, taken at face value, the Reapers leaving = Shepard surviving. Coincidence is not causality. We do not SEE Shepard leaving with them. At face value, Shepard is vaporised. That is what we are shown. 

You have also not accepted that you can be wrong *as well* as the indoctrination theory. 

God... I must repeat myself  50 times with you ppl.  compare what Legion did with the Geth, that's what Shepard did with the Reapers..... ffs

That's in the video? Who says it? Where is it shown? 

This is why I dislike your argument. Anyone who objects to you by interpreting what they saw in a way that disagrees with you is told that the ending does not SHOW what they are saying is true. 

You, however, have assumed that what happens to Shepard is the same as what Legion did with the Geth but that is no more visible in the video than anyone else's theory.

When someone disagrees, it's imagination, when you say something it's God, so obvious you have to repeat yourself... 

So show me the evidence, in the ending video, that when taken at face value PROVES that Shepard was not vaporised (which is what is shown as direct evidence) and instead turned into an AI who distributed his self-awareness amongst independant network AI hubs to modify them slightly into an independant operating mode and making them into true AI individuals. 

Shepard asks, then I can make the Reapers leave, starchild says yes, Shepard integrates, if it wasn't the case that he integrates, Reapers would have just destroyed everything

That's YOUR assumption. There is no direct visible evidence in the video that Shepard survives. 

We see Shepard vaporised. We see the Reapers leave. 

Saying that one happens because of the other is already an assumption. Correlation and causality are NOT the same. 

Saying that because one happens the other in fact is nullified because the person who was vaporised was turned into a robot's brain child is HIGHLY assumptious. 

Are you yet willing to admit that you are also making assumptions and could ALSO be wrong?

[xAmilli0n]

Gorthor wrote...

I gave you 5 or 6 points...you refuted one with the Maruader shooting Shepard.

The Tendrils were not the Illusive Man controlling you, it was the indoctrination that the Reapers had been using on you since the start, just in a very desparate manner.

Interesting point.  However, I would argue it is TIM controling, as it was established he could earlier on.  Also, it stops once you kill him, allowing you to open the Citadel.

HOWEVER!  What if the Reapers are indirectly controling TIM causing him to control YOU, and in the end, everything that happens on the Citdael is all part of their master plan...


Speculation for everyone...

[xeNNN]

to be fair im going to disagree i see where you went with it and i can accept that as its "saving all life" but then again theoretically so is synthesis?

but there has also been enthuses on actually beating the reapers by destroying them or at least how i see it but to also have one of the main antagonists as the good guy at the end it just... annoying, so youve got 2 main antagonists being the good guys and we'd be the bad guys if we destroyed the reapers as they are portrayed as the "good" guys.

to be honest in my opinion controlling the reapers instead of destroying them goes against shepards character and what hes done throughout the series. destroying them would mean life continues but the monstrosities that are supposed to be the good guys will be gone forever.

in control your letting them live bassically your influence over them could get smaller and smaller and the threat from the reapers could potentially still exist over time + joining the reapers imo goes against the arc of mass effect and again Shepard's character. not to mention he blindly accepts the choices right in front of him which is also VERY out of character specially when hes talking to the reapers "boss".

so yeah i feel like they put unecessary conseqeunces on destroy to make it a renegade option to make control look paragon which imo is still backwards regardless if control is saving all life your still joining the reapers which is just .... yeah  really stupid imo goes against what the stories building up to, the story itself and the main character shepard.

what you consider is saving all life is i think considered to be synthesis. 
Control is still "controlling" another race, which is minipulation.... power through minipulation imo isnt not a "good" thing.

Modifié par xeNNN, 18 mars 2012 - 03:20 .

[MalevoIence]

ashwind wrote...

Heh. What to believe, lets see.

1. A company that launches a game that is incomplete because they want to trick the players, agonize them and then release a DLC (free or not) so that they can say "SUCKA! I GOTCHA"

2. Fans who are so depress that they make up a theory of their own and "indoctrinate" themselves to deal with their emotional ordeal.

I find it extremely hard to umm... believe a business entity would do that. I find it exceedingly easy to believe that desperate people goto any length to make themselves feel better.

And find it extremely tiring to fend off what I perceive as determined lonely ppl 50,000 strong all clamouring for a better ending.... who find some solice in a half baked speculation with broad assumptions... who are willing to go the distance of unsubscribing from their swtor accounts, and boycotting Bioware with a stupid catch phrase of "Hold the Line"....... bugs me more than Bioware making broken games