280 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

xAmilli0n wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Synthesis isn't neutral, it's just another trick:

*image removed*

look at the eyes, IM, Control, Synthesis


Also Shep said once he won't sacrifice who they are, but Synthesis is exactly that.

I can agree with that (bolded part).

As for the image. Has this been shown with a non-default Shep (one without blue eyes)? Just curious. Also, is it that suprising Shep is changing, considering what he is trying to do in either of those ending (regardless of whether you think he is being tricked)? Again just a thought.

My Sheps eyes are green:
http://thundermods.n...th/ME3/shep.png

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 18 mars 2012 - 03:31 .

[xAmilli0n]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

My Sheps eyes are green:
http://thundermods.n...th/ME3/shep.png

And that was your Shep in the pic?  Interesting.  Thank you for sharing.

[xeNNN]

MalevoIence wrote...

xeNNN wrote...

to be fair im going to disagree i see where you went with it and i can accept that as its "saving all life" but then again theoretically so is synthesis?

but there has also been enthuses on actually beating the reapers by destroying them or at least how i see it but to also have one of the main antagonists as the good guy at the end it just... annoying, so youve got 2 main antagonists being the good guys and we'd be the bad guys if we destroyed the reapers as they are portrayed as the "good" guys.

to be honest in my opinion controlling the reapers instead of destroying them goes against shepards character and what hes done throughout the series. destroying them would mean live continues but the monstrosities that are supposed to be the good guys will be gone forever.

in control your letting them live bassically your influence over them could get smaller and smaller and the threat could eventually still exist + joining the reapers imo goes against the arc of mass effect and again Sheppard's character. not to mention he blindly accepts the choices right in front of him which is also VERY out of character specially when hes talking to the reapers "boss".

yes exactly.... which is why synthesis is neutral, not exactly galactic peace as expected, but everyone lives

Note: i did edit my post but the time it takes to carry over it is way to slow.  

ill say what i was going to say originally in the other post.  


Synthesis - its the same as control only you dont control the reapers you essentially become reapers but in a different form. since when is it neutral to change people from normal people into essentially cyborgs without giving them the freedom to choose yeah i get it "you decide the fate of the entire galaxy" but i dont see how it should be neutral. 

control -  yeah as you pointed it out it would "save" all life, but then as you pointed out the reapers are another race yet controlling them is no better than the reapers indoctrinating other cultures to kill the organics.... so essentially its power through minipulation. which is kinda well from my point of view as i play a "paragon" shep, isnt paragon at

all and even in both synthesis & control saving the reapers in any shape or form still ammounts to them still existing and the threat of the reapers could still exist on some level or another.

Destroy - now destroy seems paragon to me but the consequence of killing the geth from it seems... forced into it just to make it renegade and i dont agree with that as the entire series builds up to have you wanting to destroy the reapers even throughout mass effect 3 and yet destroying them is renegade...... there is no logic behind it.. considering control is essentially joining the reapers... and synthesis is essentially becoming reapers in a different form......... its just backwards. 

to me the "red" ending was the "good" ending with an unecessary consequence. 

Modifié par xeNNN, 18 mars 2012 - 03:36 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Yes it was, can't play a story like Mass Effect with two different characters, doesn't feel right to me ^^

[Walsh1980]

In the blue option, Shepard dies, becomes the mind and motivation of the Reapers, and EVERYONE LIVES. For all we know, now that Shepard IS the Reapers he can build a new body for himself and live with his LI. Maybe he'll go around fixing the Relays. Maybe he rides around the galaxy singing lullabies to babies or punching reporters and pushing Volus around. The Reapers are no longer what they were, they ARE Shepard now. That's the way I see it, maybe it's wrong and it was all a dream and indoctrinated theory people are right (but come one, dream explanations are so lame), but this is where the ending fails, we just don't know what happens.

[MegumiAzusa]

Walsh1980 wrote...

[...] but this is where the ending fails, we just don't know what happens.

That is what I personally think makes this ending huge. You are Shepard, and Shepard doesn't know if s/he is indoctrinated or not.

[xAmilli0n]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Walsh1980 wrote...

[...] but this is where the ending fails, we just don't know what happens.

That is what I personally think makes this ending huge. You are Shepard, and Shepard doesn't know if s/he is indoctrinated or not.

An interesting point.  One that leads to "lots of speculation for everyone."

It could potentially go either way.  I just wish I could explain the whole Normandy sequence...

Modifié par xAmilli0n, 18 mars 2012 - 03:44 .

[MegumiAzusa]

The Normandy sequence for me is Shep dreaming his/her friends, and especially LI (s/he is always present if alive before the assault), are alive and well. Shep wakes up only after that scene. At this point in my opinion Shep realizes it was only a dream, but for every other ending where you don't achieve this, and don't have this information you just can't tell.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 18 mars 2012 - 03:50 .

[Myskal1981]

Sorry, but the control option cannot be paragon. Round about five minutes before the choice you are telling the Illusive Man that even if control was possible, you should not seek it, as first it is too much power and second we are not ready. And how do you get this dialogue? By choosing the paragon dialogue options with TIM. So defining this option as paragon contradicts what you have been telling TIM all game long.

Aside from that it is interesting that a renegade option in ME2 (keep the Collector's Base) is helping you get the control option with far less EMS, so there is a second indicator that the colour coding was reversed.

These two points are valid with or without believing in the indoctrination theory.

[Kataigida]

MalevoIence wrote...

Kataigida wrote...

I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed/believes this, but I believe that even your subconscious is telling you that trusting the god-child-ai will lead to doom. Every time that you see the child after his 'death' (even though he just seems to be a figment of your imagination) in your dreams, you can never catch up to him, and when you do, you generally end up hearing the 'reaper call' as I call it, or he burns. In the final dream when a version of you kneels with the kid and looks at you, you and the kid burn up. It's almost like your subconscious is telling you not to trust the kid, or you'll die.

Also, the 'ghosts' of all of your dead allies are in the dream, littered about like grim trees, and they always seem to be trying to distract you/pull you away from the kid, perhaps another sign you shouldn't trust the kid.

Assumption, speculation... referring to a gut feeling isn't evidence

Isn't that what I said? I'm pretty sure 'believing' in something means you are making an assumption/speculation. I was just stating an opinion and my interpretation. You can choose to believe it or not, but don't try to put it down just because there's no 'proof.'

[Doctoglethorpe]

MalevoIence wrote...

Shepard being shot in the gut like Anderson... some ppl seem to take this as evidence that it was a dream, no, if you recall, Shepard was shot by the Marauder right before entering the beam

He was shot in the shoulder, not the gut.  The blood only showed after shooting Anderson and then disappeared when he met the god boy. 

Fishy like a halibut, period. 

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 18 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[ashwind]

MalevoIence wrote...

And find it extremely tiring to fend off what I perceive as determined lonely ppl 50,000 strong all clamouring for a better ending.... who find some solice in a half baked speculation with broad assumptions... who are willing to go the distance of unsubscribing from their swtor accounts, and boycotting Bioware with a stupid catch phrase of "Hold the Line"....... bugs me more than Bioware making broken games

Well... their passion reflects how great the Mass Effect series has been, how captivating it is. While I think that some are a little too extreme. I too find that the ending does not do Mass Effect justice.

My disappointment is not with the 3 choices themselves but the aftermath. We as players are clueless to the consequences of our final decision. I want to believe more players share my feeling about the ending.

I too do not believe that the Paragon ending is the "good" one. Maybe Bioware intended it to be the good ending, but I cannot agree. Even if the Catalyst is telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, it is still... not "good" per se.

Reason being: The Reapers are still out there. They simply have a new boss. Shepard replaced the Catalyst... Shepard is no longer human. The Reapers will obey Shepard... .. . Shepard is immortal now... and no longer think, feel, live like a human/organic and has the power to send the entire galaxy to hell if he wish to do so... I dont trust myself with that kind of power, I dare not.

[toddmetzger]

Myskal1981 wrote...

Sorry, but the control option cannot be paragon. Round about five minutes before the choice you are telling the Illusive Man that even if control was possible, you should not seek it, as first it is too much power and second we are not ready. And how do you get this dialogue? By choosing the paragon dialogue options with TIM. So defining this option as paragon contradicts what you have been telling TIM all game long.

Aside from that it is interesting that a renegade option in ME2 (keep the Collector's Base) is helping you get the control option with far less EMS, so there is a second indicator that the colour coding was reversed.

These two points are valid with or without believing in the indoctrination theory.

He wanted to control them so he could use their power to make humanity dominant in the galaxy. Shepard wants to control them to make them simply leave. You can't equate these motivations.

[TheRevanchist]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Urazz wrote...

DocDoomII wrote...

Blue: Highly unethical. 'Sparing' the Reapers but removing them of their free will.
Green: Even more unethical. Tampering with the DNA of all living being in the galaxy without their approval.
Red: Another kind of unethical. Genocide of every synthetic being in the galaxy.

Edit: Forgot the point of the post.

Where the heck is the paragon choice in your RGB ending?

I picked the Destroy ending.  There is no guarantee that all the Geth or EDI was destroyed.  I base this soley on the fact that Shepard is able to survive that ending even though he is part machine.

They're dead, the star kid explicitly states all synthetic life is destroyed. 

And you believe him because?............

[S Atomeha]

MalevoIence wrote...

Gorthor wrote...

How do you explain you getting shot in the stomach in the same place you shot Anderson, and you never running out of bullets even if you don't reload?

Its clear its not real, stop defending a position that is blatantly incorrect.

You remember that Marauder you were shooting at on your way to the beam when you were in slow mo? Rewatch that, he shoots you in the gut and Shepard goes "ugh"

he actually gets shot in the shoulder.

[toddmetzger]

The reload thing is obvious. If you used all your heat sincs right at the start then you couldn't shoot the illusive man, and you couldn't destroy the reapers. It's just there to prevent a game breaking situation.

[wryterra]

By the way if the OP wants to state that we have to believe what the starchild says he says, of the control ending 'You will die.' That's his first comment. That's the best evidence, using OP's rules, that Shepard dies.

[Megadark]

nice to see theres an actual topic about the endings that isnt just full of complaints

[MegumiAzusa]

The guardian (the child) also says Shep dies if s/he choose to destroy (as s/he is to some extend synthetic), but s/he clearly is alive under certain conditions. We can only conclude the guardian lies.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 18 mars 2012 - 04:05 .

[Myskal1981]

toddmetzger wrote...

Myskal1981 wrote...

Sorry, but the control option cannot be paragon. Round about five minutes before the choice you are telling the Illusive Man that even if control was possible, you should not seek it, as first it is too much power and second we are not ready. And how do you get this dialogue? By choosing the paragon dialogue options with TIM. So defining this option as paragon contradicts what you have been telling TIM all game long.

Aside from that it is interesting that a renegade option in ME2 (keep the Collector's Base) is helping you get the control option with far less EMS, so there is a second indicator that the colour coding was reversed.

These two points are valid with or without believing in the indoctrination theory.

He wanted to control them so he could use their power to make humanity dominant in the galaxy. Shepard wants to control them to make them simply leave. You can't equate these motivations.

No matter what the intentions are, the message that is way too much power and is totally wrong, because humanity is not ready, still stands. I'm not comparing what Shepard would do compared to TIM.
The theme of "corrupting" power and therefore destroying it before trying to wield it can be seen in other stories as well, most prominent in Lord of the Rings. While Shepards intentions are good he knows better than trying to be almighty, at least as a paragon.

You could argue that keeping the base in ME2 is a paragon decision as long as you wield the power for good things. Well, guess what, a paragon Shepard outright destroys the base, because of what the base stands for, not because it might fall in TIM hands. For what do the Reapers stand? Genocide, that's right, so you would be spitting in the faces of the dead by keeping them. Sorry, not paragon at all.

[Elite Midget]

You're implying that any of them was good?

[TheRevanchist]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

The guardian (the child) also says Shep dies if s/he choose to destroy (as s/he is to some extend synthetic), but s/he clearly is alive under certain conditions. We can only conclude the guardian lies.

he also clearly tells you the relays are destroid regardless of your choices....

[MalevoIence]

 Bump, added more to my opening, just refer to it when you come up with a vague assumption or speculation, your argument is probably up there

Modifié par MalevoIence, 18 mars 2012 - 04:16 .

[TheSteelArcher]

I've got one "perfect" Shepard who's almost purely Paragon, but I chose the Destroy ending for many reasons.
1. The Illusive Man was shown and he certainly wasn't a good guy
2. Shepard, although awesome, is still only a person. I wouldn't trust myself with that much power.
3. Nothing good comes from Reapers. They exist to destroy organics so organics can't make synthetics who kill organics... wait?
4. Lastly, kind of like #2, I didn't want to take any chances. If you can end a cycle of galactic extinction there, go for it.
PS: EDI survived, was the Catalyst wrong or is that a glitch, or is just how bad the endings are? Or Space Magic?

Modifié par TheSteelArcher, 18 mars 2012 - 04:15 .

[MalevoIence]

Bump, added more to my opening, just refer to it when you come up with a vague assumption or speculation, your argument is probably up there