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[MalevoIence]

S Atomeha wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

Holes? Their isn't even a solid foundation lol, assumptions and speculations are what makes up their argument which so many seem to believe, simply for the fact those ppl cannot imagine Bioware making such a simplistic ending. Blue- Paragon= everyone lives, galaxy is at peace. Red- Renegade= kill all synthetics, including the Geth, EDI, and the Reapers where Shepard himself determined they are a species. So, only thing they have to go on, is their own opinion, "was the starchild lying?" with facts all showing he's been telling you nothing but the truth since the crucible was attached, it's only assumptions that make ppl think their word isn't genuine; either you believe cold hard facts of everyone lives peacefully, or you speculate the Reapers will return. One is explained right on the screen, the other is explained in the imaginations of all those warped by those silly conspiracy theories

 control is not paragon, until the very last second of the game your told that destroy is the correct choice and that well TIM is obviously crazy. and his ideals, and ideas were just as crazy.  For paragon to be associated with that is more of a mindf*** then anything.
The child lies, the 'secret ending' proves that.

You were told to destroy the Reapers, not destroy every synthetic in the Universe doing so.  And at the end, things changed, unlike the Illusive Man, you controlled the Reapers to leave, not to dominate

[Liquoid]

NightAntilli wrote...

Hole number 1:
There is a very simple but large hole in the indoctrination theory. In most (if not all) versions of the indoctrination theory, it is said that 'destroy' is the only good option, and if you choose any of the other two options, you ultimately do what the reapers wanted you to do and thus they succeed in fully indoctrinating you. If you choose destroy, you remain independent and free. Problem here is that at the lowest possible military strength, destroy is the only option. How can a much greater military strength give you two additional options that are suddenly worse than the default low military strength one? That doesn't make any sense. 

Hole number 2:
Going on from the above theory, let's say that after Harbinger blasted Shepard, everything that happens is in his head. So.. Shepard eventually breathes if he chose the right path. There is one problem here. The camera hovers there for quite a while. You see nor hear no war, no reaper sounds, no soldiers walking around, nothing. If Shepard never actually made it to the beam and the crucible was never activated, how is the earth suddenly so quiet when he wakes up? That indicates that the war is over right? How did that happen if Shepard never entered the beam to open the Citadel arms so the crucible can be used?

Just like a gamer can be too dumb to realise that the ending cutscene is infact a lucid dream, so can a badly prepared Shepard just stick to his orders (destroying the Reapers). He's a soldier, after all.

Regarding number 2, before Shepard makes it to the conduit, the radio is calling for full retreat. We also don't get to find out how many hours Shepard spent lying unconscious among the London rubble.

[Electric Pig]

The indoctrination theory has less plot holes than the real endings :|


Just goes to show how far Bioware dropped the ball..

[DarkRavin07]

Electric Pig wrote...

The indoctrination theory has less plot holes than the real endings :|


Just goes to show how far Bioware dropped the ball..

^this

Personaly, if they just chopped the ending off right after you blast the reaper with the missle trucks, and insert the troll  song, it would be a more fitting ending than what we got....

[Monochrome Wench]

If they stopped the game at anypoint from the missles to just before Hackett calls you to say its not working would have been a better ending.

Stop it straight after the missiles you'd assume things went to plan
Stop at the top of the hill/beginning of the charge, you'd assume things went to plan
Stop after you get hit by harbingers beam, hmm, maybe no so happy, Did we succeed or fail?
Stop after entering the beam, you'd assume things went to plan
Stop in the control room after opening the CItadel arm, looks pretty bloodly likely that we won. Hell its perfect to end there with Shepard and Anderson looking on over the fleat doing battle.

Adding the choice part of the ending is just awful. If we just destroyed the reapers and as a side effect the relays were destroyed it would be a lot more believeable than being given a choice. That normandy sceen also would need to go, its just awful and make no sense at all.

[S Atomeha]

MalevoIence wrote...

S Atomeha wrote...

MalevoIence wrote...

Holes? Their isn't even a solid foundation lol, assumptions and speculations are what makes up their argument which so many seem to believe, simply for the fact those ppl cannot imagine Bioware making such a simplistic ending. Blue- Paragon= everyone lives, galaxy is at peace. Red- Renegade= kill all synthetics, including the Geth, EDI, and the Reapers where Shepard himself determined they are a species. So, only thing they have to go on, is their own opinion, "was the starchild lying?" with facts all showing he's been telling you nothing but the truth since the crucible was attached, it's only assumptions that make ppl think their word isn't genuine; either you believe cold hard facts of everyone lives peacefully, or you speculate the Reapers will return. One is explained right on the screen, the other is explained in the imaginations of all those warped by those silly conspiracy theories

 control is not paragon, until the very last second of the game your told that destroy is the correct choice and that well TIM is obviously crazy. and his ideals, and ideas were just as crazy.  For paragon to be associated with that is more of a mindf*** then anything.
The child lies, the 'secret ending' proves that.

You were told to destroy the Reapers, not destroy every synthetic in the Universe doing so.  And at the end, things changed, unlike the Illusive Man, you controlled the Reapers to leave, not to dominate

Your told to destroy the reapers at all costs.  also that is a flimsy argument at best, control and dominate mean the same thing but one has stronger connotations then the other.  to be fair, synthesis is the only one where your given a full picture of what actually happens. and that is imposing your will on everything in the galaxy.
Besides, the last time your given a paragoin choice which involves the will and dna of another species and making the choice of controlling let's say their path and belifs how did that turn out?

[REAPER48]

NightAntilli wrote...

Oyeah.. One more.. I'll edit this in my opening post too.

Going on from the theory in the opening post, let's say that after Harbinger blasted Shepard, everything that happens is in his head. So.. Shepard eventually breathes if he chose the right path. There is one problem here. The camera hovers there for quite a while. You see nor hear no war, no reaper sounds, no soldiers walking around, nothing. If Shepard never actually made it to the beam and the crucible was never activated, how is the earth suddenly so quiet when he wakes up? That indicates that the war is over right? How did that happen if Shepard never entered the beam to open the Citadel arms so the crucible can be used?

                                                                                         to comfrim this statement if you look at where shep is lying you can see skinny tubes among the rubble these tubes were in the the thing u shoot at on the citadle to destroy the reapers meaning that shep wakes up after destroying the reapers on a ruined citadle. hes still on the citadle after destroying the reapers. so peolpe just face it the ending is the real ending and the indoctrination theory is an idea that has nothing to support it and i hope bioware just ignore it cause it really wouldn't make sense with the point i just made that no one will be able to prove wrong. those tubes i was on about were also around the thing you shoot in case you can't see them behind the cover you shoot in the game