546 réponses à ce sujet

[Volus Warlord]

gamer_girl wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Point is, you can't explain why you're attracted to them based solely on character can you? Human beings are for lack of a better word "programmed" to be the way they are. I don't know why I think the way I do, as I don't know why others think the way they do - it's just how we were born.

Your  "programming" is FAR from set in stone.

I for one would not recognize myself now from say 5 years ago.

Programming is actually accurate because if you've ever programmed in your life you'd know that "const" variables exist. Sexuality is one of the const variables.

Lol. I've done plenty of coding. 

What says sexuality is set to constant? What says that it cannot change? 

Tell me has your sexuality changed? I doubt it. The only thing that could be even close to "changing" is that it usually isn't realized fully until people grow up - because of peer pressure etc people stay in the closet and try to convince themselves that they are something that they aren't.

Cmon now. Is that so? Why then the instances of people swapping back and forth? Why the frequent changes in certain environments?

[gamer_girl]

Volus Warlord wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Point is, you can't explain why you're attracted to them based solely on character can you? Human beings are for lack of a better word "programmed" to be the way they are. I don't know why I think the way I do, as I don't know why others think the way they do - it's just how we were born.

Your  "programming" is FAR from set in stone.

I for one would not recognize myself now from say 5 years ago.

Programming is actually accurate because if you've ever programmed in your life you'd know that "const" variables exist. Sexuality is one of the const variables.

Lol. I've done plenty of coding. 

What says sexuality is set to constant? What says that it cannot change? 

Tell me has your sexuality changed? I doubt it. The only thing that could be even close to "changing" is that it usually isn't realized fully until people grow up - because of peer pressure etc people stay in the closet and try to convince themselves that they are something that they aren't.

Cmon now. Is that so? Why then the instances of people swapping back and forth? Why the frequent changes in certain environments?

I said it once and I'll say it again - peer pressure. You just said yourself that "environment" influences what they do, and you're right. In certain environments people behave differently because of different motivations. Let me give you an example - in a job interview do you not act as if you can do no wrong? You refrain from using curse words, or speaking at all like you normally would because you want to impress the boss to get the job. For people in minorities, they have to do that every day because they're afraid. They don't want to have to take the sticks and stones every day because so many people are discriminatory against the group they're a part of. So they pretend to be something they aren't just so they can feel accepted. That's the atrocity is that people cannot be as they actually are because of ridiculous people and their prejudices.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 19 mars 2012 - 03:35 .

[Volus Warlord]

gamer_girl wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Point is, you can't explain why you're attracted to them based solely on character can you? Human beings are for lack of a better word "programmed" to be the way they are. I don't know why I think the way I do, as I don't know why others think the way they do - it's just how we were born.

Your  "programming" is FAR from set in stone.

I for one would not recognize myself now from say 5 years ago.

Programming is actually accurate because if you've ever programmed in your life you'd know that "const" variables exist. Sexuality is one of the const variables.

Lol. I've done plenty of coding. 

What says sexuality is set to constant? What says that it cannot change? 

Tell me has your sexuality changed? I doubt it. The only thing that could be even close to "changing" is that it usually isn't realized fully until people grow up - because of peer pressure etc people stay in the closet and try to convince themselves that they are something that they aren't.

Cmon now. Is that so? Why then the instances of people swapping back and forth? Why the frequent changes in certain environments?

I said it once and I'll say it again - peer pressure.

Is peer pressure the "mass effect fields" of sexuality or something? You use it to explain everything.

[Russalka]

The gay rights people are adamant on it not being a choice, because otherwise it would encourage those who wish to cure homosexuality or condemn gay people for choosing a life of sin. As long as a large part of society remains hostile towards it, it is easier to resort to "It can't be helped", rather than "Who cares?"

In truth, it is a complicated matter. Sexuality should not be narrowed down to concrete terms. I subscribe to the idea that every person has a spectrum of desires that may or may not cross the borders that some people keep insisting that exist. Usually, it does not seem to be a conscious choice, but a realisation. And science does seem to suggest that it is a mix of factors.

Modifié par Russalka, 19 mars 2012 - 03:37 .

[Walrusninja]

Very well said Russalka. Subscribe to the same line of thought myself.

[gamer_girl]

@Volus Warlord read my edit on my previous post.

[The-Sapient]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Is peer pressure the "mass effect fields" of sexuality or something? You use it to explain everything.

I think you are confusing sexual orientation and sexual behavior.  Sexual behavior may be influsenced by many things, including sexual orientation and social pressures.  But sexual behavior does not influence sexual orientation.  A gay man may only have sex with women to fulfil cultural expectations, but he is still gay.  A bisexual may only have sex with people of the same sex to be accepted in some subculture, but that person is still bisexual.  

[Tirigon]

gamer_girl wrote...

But your defence was that the mind creates everything and that people "choose to be straight or gay". If you're now basing everything about a person on what *you* see, instead of an immaterial thing like the mind, doesn't that throw your whole idea out the window?

They can choose their actions, and therefore how they are seen.

Since we dont know the reasoning for anyone's actions except our own, we have no way of telling why they act like they do.

Maybe it is really only peer pressure and you are right?
Or maybe they do what they wish, as I believe?
Or maybe something entirely different neither of us can understand?

We do not know that (and hopefully never will, I fear a world where we can read other people's mind), and therefore discussing it is pointless (even though interesting).

[gamer_girl]

The-Sapient wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Is peer pressure the "mass effect fields" of sexuality or something? You use it to explain everything.

I think you are confusing sexual orientation and sexual behavior.  Sexual behavior may be influsenced by many things, including sexual orientation and social pressures.  But sexual behavior does not influence sexual orientation.  A gay man may only have sex with women to fulfil cultural expectations, but he is still gay.  A bisexual may only have sex with people of the same sex to be accepted in some subculture, but that person is still bisexual.  

QFT

[shepisavanguardgetoverit]

Russalka wrote...

The gay rights people are adamant on it not being a choice, because otherwise it would encourage those who wish to cure homosexuality or condemn gay people for choosing a life of sin. As long as a large part of society remains hostile towards it, it is easier to resort to "It can't be helped", rather than "Who cares?"

In truth, it is a complicated matter. Sexuality should not be narrowed down to concrete terms. I subscribe to the idea that every person has a spectrum of desires that may or may not cross the borders that some people keep insisting that exist. Usually, it does not seem to be a conscious choice, but a realisation. And science does seem to suggest that it is a mix of factors.

Wow a post that contains actual intelligence and reasoning.  I am still on the BSN right?

[gamer_girl]

Tirigon wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

But your defence was that the mind creates everything and that people "choose to be straight or gay". If you're now basing everything about a person on what *you* see, instead of an immaterial thing like the mind, doesn't that throw your whole idea out the window?

They can choose their actions, and therefore how they are seen.

Since we dont know the reasoning for anyone's actions except our own, we have no way of telling why they act like they do.

Maybe it is really only peer pressure and you are right?
Or maybe they do what they wish, as I believe?
Or maybe something entirely different neither of us can understand?

We do not know that (and hopefully never will, I fear a world where we can read other people's mind), and therefore discussing it is pointless (even though interesting).

Welcome to philosophy. But if we are to assume the role of proper human beings we should treat others as we would want to be treated. I know I certainly wouldn't like there to be a female toggle or an Asian toggle, or a straight toggle - I would be extremely offended if such a thing existed, even if it is just in a game. It reinforces the notion that people should stick to their prejudices. I do know that tolerance cannot be forced, but I also know that discrimination and intolerance shouldn't be encouraged either.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 19 mars 2012 - 03:41 .

[The-Sapient]

Tirigon wrote...

They can choose their actions, and therefore how they are seen.

Since we dont know the reasoning for anyone's actions except our own, we have no way of telling why they act like they do.

Maybe it is really only peer pressure and you are right?
Or maybe they do what they wish, as I believe?
Or maybe something entirely different neither of us can understand?

We do not know that (and hopefully never will, I fear a world where we can read other people's mind), and therefore discussing it is pointless (even though interesting).

Why engage in this conversation if you believe that other people's words are not evidence of their mental state?  

[Tirigon]

Russalka wrote...

The gay rights people are adamant on it not being a choice, because otherwise it would encourage those who wish to cure homosexuality or condemn gay people for choosing a life of sin. As long as a large part of society remains hostile towards it, it is easier to resort to "It can't be helped", rather than "Who cares?"

Rather the opposite is true, in my opinion.

If something is a choice, then it cant be cured but must be accepted.

I hate the belief it is not because if the truth is that you are born with your sexual orientation - then the fundamentalists are actually RIGHT about "curing" homosexuals, just like medicine tries to cure other hereditary defects.

Because if we believe in your theory - then homosexuality is nothing but an hereditary defect. And that thought, I admit, is both frightening and disgusting to me.

[Rosey]

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT....

I CAN ROMANCE GARRUS AS DUDESHEP?

SRSLY?

SOMEONE CONFIRM THIS FOR ME RIGHT EFFING NOW OMG.

*FLAILS*

allcaps ;p

[Russalka]

It is not a defect as it is not inherently harmful.

[Tirigon]

The-Sapient wrote...

Why engage in this conversation if you believe that other people's words are not evidence of their mental state? 

That is indeed a great problem in human interaction. On the one hand we need to rely on what is said, but at the same time we know that it is only a filtered view the other allows us, that may or may not be true.

[NoAngel89]

Granted I think I think ME3 ok. There's not many gay male characters I see that do that. There's only one gay male character I know so far from ME3. And he's up front with you that he's gay. So that already gives you the chance to avoid a relationship with him, if you're not into that sort of thing. Unlike like dragon age origins & 2, where gay relationships came up as surprises.  Bioware has really refined it's gay relationship options, so straight people don't feel so uncomfortable about gay relationships coming up. Anyway I hope what I said helps.

Modifié par NoAngel89, 19 mars 2012 - 09:45 .

[Tirigon]

Russalka wrote...

It is not a defect as it is not inherently harmful.

I agree. Any fundamentalis wanting to turn homosexuals back to a "normal" lifestyle, however, would not.

[The-Sapient]

Tirigon wrote...

The-Sapient wrote...

Why engage in this conversation if you believe that other people's words are not evidence of their mental state? 

That is indeed a great problem in human interaction. On the one hand we need to rely on what is said, but at the same time we know that it is only a filtered view the other allows us, that may or may not be true.

You may think that.  Then again, you may think the opposite.  Or you may just be thinking how awesome The Sapient is.  

Do we really want to pretend that what people say they experience is not evidence of what they actually experience? 

[gamer_girl]

Tirigon wrote...

Russalka wrote...

The gay rights people are adamant on it not being a choice, because otherwise it would encourage those who wish to cure homosexuality or condemn gay people for choosing a life of sin. As long as a large part of society remains hostile towards it, it is easier to resort to "It can't be helped", rather than "Who cares?"

Rather the opposite is true, in my opinion.

If something is a choice, then it cant be cured but must be accepted.

I hate the belief it is not because if the truth is that you are born with your sexual orientation - then the fundamentalists are actually RIGHT about "curing" homosexuals, just like medicine tries to cure other hereditary defects.

Because if we believe in your theory - then homosexuality is nothing but an hereditary defect. And that thought, I admit, is both frightening and disgusting to me.

Who says they're the ones that need to be "cured" if you say they're right about it. Maybe the "fundamentalists" need to be cured of their corrupted minds.

[superwarrior]

j78 wrote...

superwarrior wrote...

@j78

No, i don't think u mean to be rude so no probs, you seem reasonable. The truth? I've been looking into ideologies and theories/studies about socio/economic issues for the past few years. Why? Because my country and the world currently is a bit of a mess and it filtered down to my curent livelihood. And it mostly comes down to this; human behaviour. So i made it a point to study as much as i can and try to understand the aspects, not just sexuality. Learning about life and people and the world/universe in other words...to better apply myself. Good thing surely no?

Absolutely. super warrior then you are the man to ask is the reaction a religious thing? I know every culture has a name for gays and some cultures even revere them what is the problem here in the west .

OK. Interesting you should ask. I'm chinese, born in Malaysia, sent to military boarding school (where i've certainly experienced raw racism and "persecution" amongst witnessing some crazy things) in England and stayed for 12 years including uni and now back and working in malaysia. From Buddhist/taoist family but went to church for 5 years so i'm kind of a fusion mindset.

Take what i say as my opinion and not fact. What i've observed is this; the west seems to have a very skewed and twisted interpretation and application of freedom, rights and political correctness. Corporatisation is rife and that's taken certain cultures and values away from what once made countries like England and USA mighty. "Freedom" and "rights" are abused, politicians/people are confused or have non-altruistic agendas. Materialism is rife. Selfishness is rife in the name self-obssession and self-gratification (as opposed to more family/community centric values in Asia generally). Does Asia have problems? Absolutely, politicised religion,etc. and the corporate culture is creeping/builiding here.

But think of it this way, humans currently are pretty intelligent but lack wisdom. Intellingence is like, say, knowing how to build a gun. Wisdom is whether one should be built in the first place. Freedom may be every bit as crippling as fascism especially when lacking wisdom. And sometimes calling a spade a spade is more constructive than political correctness. VERY thin line and balance.

I'll stop, gonna get this thread locked. Hope that little summary is interesting.

[Eterna]

So apparently Cortez saying he had a husband is shoving the gay agenda down our throats.

[j78]

Rather the opposite is true, in my opinion.

If something is a choice, then it cant be cured but must be accepted.

I hate the belief it is not because if the truth is that you are born with your sexual orientation - then the fundamentalists are actually RIGHT about "curing" homosexuals, just like medicine tries to cure other hereditary defects.

Because if we believe in your theory - then homosexuality is nothing but an hereditary defect. And that thought, I admit, is both frightening and disgusting to me.

Agreed, but Russalka has a point there are people who are in a grey area .We are to complex to be fixed to one preset .The problem is people forcing other people to adhere to society that might go against are true natures.

Modifié par j78, 19 mars 2012 - 03:59 .

[gamer_girl]

@superwarrior
So let me get this straight. Basically what I just read was "Corporations, materialism, and greed are evil. And dammit, those gays aren't harming anyone but they're bad too." ............ O_o

[Russalka]

Those who wish to "heal" homosexuals would want to with any option. If it is a choice, then let's bring in the psychiatrists, if it is not, let's bring in the physicians. Or we could pray it away with either.

It is just that with all the hostility, they had to pick one. Usually, people don't remember choosing their sexuality, nor would anyone even question it with heterosexuality. The possibility of it being a choice, alongside the suggestion of homosexuality being a perversion, is still used as something to make gay people look depraved. "It can't be helped!" evokes sympathy in this case.