193 réponses à ce sujet

[JunMadine]

Hold the line.

[Vaktathi]

actually you used "majority" because if in reality you put any of your polls next to sales figures it looks pretty grim doesnt it.

this game will hit at least 7 million sales on all formats.[and thats being conservative]

now..whats your poll count. ?

Do you understand anything about statistics?

You have a *population*, which is the sum group of everyone that falls into the categories of what you are looking at (in this case, ME3 owners) and you have a *sample*, which is a subset of that group you use to to pull data from. 

You never poll the entire population, you'd never get responses from them all and it'd take forever. Poll's are always a *sample* of the population. For a *sample* to be seen as statistically valid, it must be at least a certain size. 

This poll here (first one to come to mind)

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 

currently has over 58,000 votes. In any statistical analysis, that would be considered more than sufficient for statistical viability in terms of raw numbers. There are others out there with numbers in the thousands as well that would also be statistically viable such as the G4TV poll. 

Now, one may be able to argue other aspects in regards to the polls, but trying to make the argument that based on sales numbers that the polls are irrelevant shows a lack of understanding of statistics. 

Speaking of numbers, on *what* are you basing the asssumption that the game will hit 7 million copies sold? That would mean ME3 by itself would be selling about 1.5-2x  as much as ME1 and ME2 *combined*, more than MW3, which I really don't see being the case. The majority of a games sales are done near launch. If we've alredy hit 3.5 million, that means that (unless something happens totally out of the ordinary) we'll see significantly less than 3.5 million in further sales, meaning 7 million really isn't a viable number to expect. 

Modifié par Vaktathi, 18 mars 2012 - 07:56 .

[AJRimmsey]

Vaktathi wrote...

actually you used "majority" because if in reality you put any of your polls next to sales figures it looks pretty grim doesnt it.

this game will hit at least 7 million sales on all formats.[and thats being conservative]

now..whats your poll count. ?

Do you understand anything about statistics?

You have a *population*, which is the sum group of everyone that falls into the categories of what you are looking at (in this case, ME3 owners) and you have a *sample*, which is a subset of that group you use to to pull data from. 

You never poll the entire population, you'd never get responses from them all and it'd take forever. Poll's are always a *sample* of the population. For a *sample* to be seen as statistically valid, it must be at least a certain size. 

This poll here (first one to come to mind)

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 

currently has over 58,000 votes. In any statistical analysis, that would be considered more than sufficient for statistical viability in terms of raw numbers. There are others out there with numbers in the thousands as well that would also be statistically viable such as the G4TV poll. 

Now, one may be able to argue other aspects in regards to the polls, but trying to make the argument that based on sales numbers that the polls are irrelevant shows a lack of understanding of statistics. 

Speaking of numbers, on *what* are you basing the asssumption that the game will hit 7 million copies sold? That would mean ME3 by itself would be selling about 1.5-2x  as much as ME1 and ME2 *combined*, more than MW3, which I really don't see being the case. 

ah the olde statistics theory.

"if 100 from a 100000 population vote blue,then red must be bad"
even though the reds were never asked

in the UK stats for tv work the same way.
they poll 100 people in a population of 6 million and decide on that if a shows a hit.

statistics dont even work when selling chocolate bars.

i say 50k out of millions is a sure sign you are the miniscule minority.
but then you will just say differently even when confronted with real world figures.

Modifié par AJRimmsey, 18 mars 2012 - 07:57 .

[MissMaster_2]

IGN is bought out.

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

cyrrant wrote...

Do not rise to this, we're better than getting dragged into a flame war with a troll.

Hold the Line

This is exactly what makes your movement look bad.  If ANYONE disagrees with your point of view they're automatically branded trolls.

I am not a member of either side, and I have sympathy for your movement, but it looks terrible for your side when someone disagrees and all of a subben you brand them a troll.

And I honestly agree with Colin's opinion...

Modifié par GME_ThorianCreeper, 18 mars 2012 - 08:07 .

[Dansayshi]

People still take IGN seriously?

Its bad for business for them to say a game has failings and give it a low score / negative press. Said game would just go elsewhere in the future, and IGN would lose customers / publicity / advertising etc.

[AJRimmsey]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

IGN is bought out.

any site you visit that has an ad for a game is bought out.
they make more money from ad revenue than selling the games on those sites.

you are on a site now thats been bought out

even when someone here sends you to a youtube they are making money off you

hell,even a charity has latched onto this furor to screw money out of you

Modifié par AJRimmsey, 18 mars 2012 - 08:04 .

[Cartims]

here....read this one

http://calitreview.com/24673

Hold the line...available in blue, red and green...

[Trevarion]

wow that colin kid is a tool.

[DoctorEss]

Can't spell "ignorant" without the letters I, G, and N.

Or, don't take the word of the people who HAVE AN EMPLOYEE IN THE GAME AS ADVERTISEMENT. They have financial stake in this. They're being paid to hype the game, and say it's great.

IGN has, in the past, been forced to admit they're paid for false good reviews. Gamespot, too.

[Vaktathi]

AJRimmsey wrote...
ah the olde statistics theory.

Ah yes, the fields of statistics and econometrics.

We have dismissed such claims.

"if 100 from a 100000 population vote blue,then red must be bad"
even though the reds were never asked

in the UK stats for tv work the same way.
they poll 100 people in a population of 6 million and decide on that if a shows a hit.

statistics dont even work when selling chocolate bars.

i say 50k out of millions is a sure sign you are the miniscule minority.
but then you will just say differently even when confronted with real world figures.

Aaaaaaand you missed what I said entirely. If you'll note, I said a sample has to have a certain size to be considered valid.

If you look at political polls, most of those are done with sample sizes of ~1,000 or ~10,000 people, and usually end to within 3-4% of where the truth actually lies even in elections involving nearly 200 million people. 

 If you're going to simply dismiss statistics and economic theory when arguing these things as being irrelevant, you're living in a fantasy world where nothing anyone or anything says is going to have any effect on what you determine is the "truth" because you've already made up your mind and that's that, and there's no point in discussing anything. 


You're making the completely ridiculous mistake of assuming that everyone outside of those polls holds pretty much the exact opposite opinion, which you have no data or any reasoning to support. 

Modifié par Vaktathi, 18 mars 2012 - 08:08 .

[AkiKishi]

AJRimmsey wrote...

Vaktathi wrote...

actually you used "majority" because if in reality you put any of your polls next to sales figures it looks pretty grim doesnt it.

this game will hit at least 7 million sales on all formats.[and thats being conservative]

now..whats your poll count. ?

Do you understand anything about statistics?

You have a *population*, which is the sum group of everyone that falls into the categories of what you are looking at (in this case, ME3 owners) and you have a *sample*, which is a subset of that group you use to to pull data from. 

You never poll the entire population, you'd never get responses from them all and it'd take forever. Poll's are always a *sample* of the population. For a *sample* to be seen as statistically valid, it must be at least a certain size. 

This poll here (first one to come to mind)

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 

currently has over 58,000 votes. In any statistical analysis, that would be considered more than sufficient for statistical viability in terms of raw numbers. There are others out there with numbers in the thousands as well that would also be statistically viable such as the G4TV poll. 

Now, one may be able to argue other aspects in regards to the polls, but trying to make the argument that based on sales numbers that the polls are irrelevant shows a lack of understanding of statistics. 

Speaking of numbers, on *what* are you basing the asssumption that the game will hit 7 million copies sold? That would mean ME3 by itself would be selling about 1.5-2x  as much as ME1 and ME2 *combined*, more than MW3, which I really don't see being the case. 

ah the olde statistics theory.

"if 100 from a 100000 population vote blue,then red must be bad"
even though the reds were never asked

in the UK stats for tv work the same way.
they poll 100 people in a population of 6 million and decide on that if a shows a hit.

statistics dont even work when selling chocolate bars.

i say 50k out of millions is a sure sign you are the miniscule minority.
but then you will just say differently even when confronted with real world figures.

Obviously all those polls that predicted our election within 10% were complete failures. Someone does not how statistics work.

Those election polls were samples of 1000 vs a population of 60 million by the way.

The board polls are skewed, but still statistically accurate.

[kbct]

Vaktathi wrote...

Do you understand anything about statistics?

You have a *population*, which is the sum group of everyone that falls into the categories of what you are looking at (in this case, ME3 owners) and you have a *sample*, which is a subset of that group you use to to pull data from. 

You never poll the entire population, you'd never get responses from them all and it'd take forever. Poll's are always a *sample* of the population. For a *sample* to be seen as statistically valid, it must be at least a certain size. 

No, he doesn't. Some here argue that since the poll is self-selecting, it has no predictive power. Let me tell you, a poll with 60K votes has predictive power especially when it shows only 2% like the ending as-is.

Modifié par kbct, 18 mars 2012 - 08:10 .

[AkiKishi]

Who do we report IGN to so they get investigated for corruption?

[kbct]

Vaktathi wrote...

If you're going to simply dismiss statistics and economic theory when arguing these things as being irrelevant, you're living in a fantasy world where nothing anyone or anything says is going to have any effect on what you determine is the "truth" because you've already made up your mind and that's that, and there's no point in discussing anything. 

You're a smart guy. You were bound to come to that conclusion eventually.

[MICHELLE7]

Quietness wrote...

I find it more interesting that Forbes (A business magazine) is the one behind the fans and openly criticising Bioware.

For those that want to use the extremely BS "ITS ART" Argument : http://calitreview.com/24673 Cali. Lit Journal that complete tears apart the ending even from an artistic point of view.

I'm assuming you click the link to the review on that page...anyway...loved the last 2 paragraph's especially that last line...and you're right...the article tears it apart.

[AJRimmsey]

Vaktathi wrote...

You're making the completely ridiculous mistake of assuming that everyone outside of those polls holds pretty much the exact opposite opinion, which you have no data or any reasoning to support. 

well that makes two of us.
as your "statistics" refuse to take into account reality.

using election statistics is also flawed as they are well known to be twisted to support whoever uses them.


the main thing this "retake" group ignores is statistics vs logistics
we have yet to see this group agree on an ending to make them all happy.

until then its all just a fracas.

[slimgrin]

I'm not going to petition Bioware or anything extreme, but this guy sounds like a ****** to me. Bioware failed so hard, and right at the very f*cking end of a trilogy, so yeah, some people are going to be pissed. I'm just left wondering why they wrote the ending that way, and were so incredibly lazy about player 'choice' in the end.

[Chuvvy]

IGN
Respectable, intelligent, and unbiased journalism.

Choose one.

[Cartims]

Errrr...IGN, this was suppose to be OUR game, with OUR choices MAKING a difference....THEY didn't....it was Bioware's game...they made all our choices moot....so STFU.

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

Vaktathi wrote...

actually you used "majority" because if in reality you put any of your polls next to sales figures it looks pretty grim doesnt it.

this game will hit at least 7 million sales on all formats.[and thats being conservative]

now..whats your poll count. ?

Do you understand anything about statistics?

You have a *population*, which is the sum group of everyone that falls into the categories of what you are looking at (in this case, ME3 owners) and you have a *sample*, which is a subset of that group you use to to pull data from. 

You never poll the entire population, you'd never get responses from them all and it'd take forever. Poll's are always a *sample* of the population. For a *sample* to be seen as statistically valid, it must be at least a certain size. 

This poll here (first one to come to mind)

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 

currently has over 58,000 votes. In any statistical analysis, that would be considered more than sufficient for statistical viability in terms of raw numbers. There are others out there with numbers in the thousands as well that would also be statistically viable such as the G4TV poll. 

Now, one may be able to argue other aspects in regards to the polls, but trying to make the argument that based on sales numbers that the polls are irrelevant shows a lack of understanding of statistics. 

Speaking of numbers, on *what* are you basing the asssumption that the game will hit 7 million copies sold? That would mean ME3 by itself would be selling about 1.5-2x  as much as ME1 and ME2 *combined*, more than MW3, which I really don't see being the case. The majority of a games sales are done near launch. If we've alredy hit 3.5 million, that means that (unless something happens totally out of the ordinary) we'll see significantly less than 3.5 million in further sales, meaning 7 million really isn't a viable number to expect. 

You cant use a biased sample and think it reflects the views of all.

I used this example in a previous thread...

You take 50000 random people and ask them if they're going to vote for a democrat or a republican.  49000 said they were going to vote democrat.  That must mean that a democrat is going to win the election correct?

No, incorrect, do you know why? Every single person polled was from the city of Chicago. Therefore that sample can not be taken seriously,  just like the one here on the BSN.

[AkiKishi]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Quietness wrote...

I find it more interesting that Forbes (A business magazine) is the one behind the fans and openly criticising Bioware.

For those that want to use the extremely BS "ITS ART" Argument : http://calitreview.com/24673 Cali. Lit Journal that complete tears apart the ending even from an artistic point of view.

I'm assuming you click the link to the review on that page...anyway...loved the last 2 paragraph's especially that last line...and you're right...the article tears it apart.

That's one hell of a review. Wonder if it will be put up on Meta Critic.

[AJRimmsey]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Vaktathi wrote...

actually you used "majority" because if in reality you put any of your polls next to sales figures it looks pretty grim doesnt it.

this game will hit at least 7 million sales on all formats.[and thats being conservative]

now..whats your poll count. ?

Do you understand anything about statistics?

You have a *population*, which is the sum group of everyone that falls into the categories of what you are looking at (in this case, ME3 owners) and you have a *sample*, which is a subset of that group you use to to pull data from. 

You never poll the entire population, you'd never get responses from them all and it'd take forever. Poll's are always a *sample* of the population. For a *sample* to be seen as statistically valid, it must be at least a certain size. 

This poll here (first one to come to mind)

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 

currently has over 58,000 votes. In any statistical analysis, that would be considered more than sufficient for statistical viability in terms of raw numbers. There are others out there with numbers in the thousands as well that would also be statistically viable such as the G4TV poll. 

Now, one may be able to argue other aspects in regards to the polls, but trying to make the argument that based on sales numbers that the polls are irrelevant shows a lack of understanding of statistics. 

Speaking of numbers, on *what* are you basing the asssumption that the game will hit 7 million copies sold? That would mean ME3 by itself would be selling about 1.5-2x  as much as ME1 and ME2 *combined*, more than MW3, which I really don't see being the case. The majority of a games sales are done near launch. If we've alredy hit 3.5 million, that means that (unless something happens totally out of the ordinary) we'll see significantly less than 3.5 million in further sales, meaning 7 million really isn't a viable number to expect. 

You cant use a biased sample and think it reflects the views of all.

I used this example in a previous thread...

You take 50000 random people and ask them if they're going to vote for a democrat or a republican.  49000 said they were going to vote democrat.  That must mean that a democrat is going to win the election correct?

No, incorrect, do you know why? Every single person polled was from the city of Chicago. Therefore that sample can not be taken seriously,  just like the one here on the BSN.

you are about to be called a troll

[Parmida]

LOL at IGN ...

[Vaktathi]

AJRimmsey wrote...

well that makes two of us.
as your "statistics" refuse to take into account reality.

*What* reality? That they arent' taking *every single ME3 player* into account? No poll does that. What *reality* is it that I'm missing?

using election statistics is also flawed as they are well known to be twisted to support whoever uses them.

There are many independent polling organizations that do political polling for purely informational purposes and typically get within less than 3% of the actual result. Just because there *are* those that twist numbers doesn't mean the entire field is pointless. 

the main thing this "retake" group ignores is statistics vs logistics

What on earth do you mean by that? How are you relating them here. Statistics is the mathematics of collecting, analyzing and interpreting data. Logistics is the management and oversight of goods between the supply points and consumption points in order to meet demand. 

How are you relating these things here?

we have yet to see this group agree on an ending to make them all happy.

There isn't one, hence the need for more than one ending, and endings that make sense within the context of the game. What we got was three different color-codings of the *same* ending.