160 réponses à ce sujet

[Hyrist]

You don't raise 60k for charity in the game of changing the endings because it's a mild problem.

You don't catch the attention of two major media outlets because it's just some passing craze.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

detroitmechworks wrote...

Very few people answer ANY poll.  That does not invalidate every poll because we didn't track down the one hermit who bought the game and loved the ending but doesn't have the internet.  (We'll assume he hacked the game)

If Fox News, Reuters, CNN, and The New York Times are fine with a sample size under 1%, then they're just hacks? 

Preorders were based off an  unknown quality.  As were those of us who bought it and assumed it wasn't going to be as bad as it was.

And the people who don't care about the game are not EA's target audience for DLC.  Ignoring their fans is sure to create only bad word of mouth.  Which is to this day, STILL the best advertising.

Fox/CNN etc draw from representitive venues for the issues they're discussing.  Plus, they never pretend their polls represent a given population.  They very carefully word things...  but using terms like "respondents" and not "players."  Forum polls draw from forum users.  Thus, the absolute best point you make is that "of forum users."  Which is very different from the rest of the world, who could care less about the forums.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

SandTrout wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

That's fair, but those polls are taken in different venues.  As for the 50,000...  That many have voted on the polls?  I don't think so.

Yes, 50k have voted on some of the polls. Your ignorance is showing.

Link?  ^_^

[Soverign 666]

Wow I say that I don't think the retake movement will work using its current tactics and I'm a troll. No one bothers to check out if I have trolled before by simply checking my reply history. This quick judgement simply because I say something you don't want to here is EXACTLy why you guys have a bad reputation and are going to struggle to get your goals accomplished

[Kloborgg711]

plaguecaller wrote...

JohnShepard12 wrote...

Pretty sure we're banking on Bioware caring enough to change the endings, not hurting them by taking their money. At least that's my angle and I believe Bioware (more than any other developer) does care about it's loyal fans.

Who are you talking about in Bioware that cares can you name them? Bioware does not speak to masses which this grass roots group is at the moment. Two weeks and counting- still nobody really taking the steps to actually start talking to bioware reps who could be representing your group- wtf.  

Yet you are on the boards complianing. get up off your butts and organise properly.
 
What reps do you have to present your position who is speaking for you to bioware?

Who have you elected to represent you to bioware and how did you do so? Was it by consensus, polling, mail in campaing? What was used to get your core of leadership? 

Tell us how you are going to legitimize these identified leaders in your gtoup?

Where is your desiganted spokes person that is savvy enough to strum the news cycle which works on a 90 minute rotation? Where is your media campaign? I don't see it.

Whats your message?- its dijointed.

Where is you leadership what are their names and who have they been talking to?

Go read some books on grass roots organizing such as Piven and Clowards stuff and come up with a plan. This monb level stuff is goinng to get old fast

Bioware is the power at the momement and you are a marginilised group until you can talk with that power through its representatives. Go figure out how you are going to do that. Other wise in time you will drift to the fringes of the community =unheard anymore.

I think some are talking this a tad to seriuosly. So I give you the galaxy song - cheer up.

Is this a troll or serious? We're not campaigning a government for civil rights, we're requesting a new/alternative ending(s) from a corporation.

[Kloborgg711]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

That's fair, but those polls are taken in different venues.  As for the 50,000...  That many have voted on the polls?  I don't think so.

Yes, 50k have voted on some of the polls. Your ignorance is showing.

Link?  ^_^

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 
More than 50k just for a completely new ending.

[VonVerrikan]

Seeing how completely out of touch from reality you are, it's easy enough to assume you're just a Bioware or PR bot trying to drone up support for this terrible ending and Biowares poor choices.

[mastercheif-117]

OP, I'm going to agree with you that the military analogies a la "Hold the Line" and the establishment of regional "fleets" are getting tacky. My personal opinion on this is that Shepard has rubbed off on too many of us

[kunzite]

Soverign 666 wrote...

Wow I say that I don't think the retake movement will work using its current tactics and I'm a troll. No one bothers to check out if I have trolled before by simply checking my reply history. This quick judgement simply because I say something you don't want to here is EXACTLy why you guys have a bad reputation and are going to struggle to get your goals accomplished

Can you show me where we have a bad reputation? And who is 'you guys', exactly? Just curious.

[Kloborgg711]

Soverign 666 wrote...

Wow I say that I don't think the retake movement will work using its current tactics and I'm a troll. No one bothers to check out if I have trolled before by simply checking my reply history. This quick judgement simply because I say something you don't want to here is EXACTLy why you guys have a bad reputation and are going to struggle to get your goals accomplished

Well, that's one of the stupidest "arguments" I've ever head the displeasure to read. "You guys don't use ad hominem enough". Right...

[Soverign 666]

VonVerrikan wrote...

Seeing how completely out of touch from reality you are, it's easy enough to assume you're just a Bioware or PR bot trying to drone up support for this terrible ending and Biowares poor choices.

Can you explain to me how I'm out of touch. I seem to recall starting this by saying I didnt liek the endings and would like new ones just as much as ys you? This kind of hostilitay will get you nowhere

[Lianaar]

[quote]SandTrout wrote...
[/quote]Yes, 50k have voted on some of the polls. Your ignorance is showing.
[/quote]

Those polls show that many people are dissatisfied.
It however doesn't show how many percentage of buyers are satisfied or dissatisfied. We have currently no means to validly claim anything.
You can validly claim that 50k votes have been given (maybe by 50k people, maybe not) and most of those voted for displeasure in the ending.
Making a representative poll is very difficult, because active people don't always represent the actual preferences. However active people shape the appearances and in modern time media that is very important.
To sum up my views: we can't know how many people are displeased from those who bought the game. A whole lot of active people disliked it, a whole lot of active people ask for a different ending. I think none is denying that the movement calling for changing the end is to be ignored or that it is worthless.

To comment someone who said we come here to say I hope you lose. No, I don't hope you lose. I claim you might not have considered the long time consequences of fulfilling your request.
Thus I hope BW is smarter then us and can come up with a solution that is not changing the end and yet making players more pleased. I am sure such exists, I very sincerely hope they find it.

[Kloborgg711]

Soverign 666 wrote...

VonVerrikan wrote...

Seeing how completely out of touch from reality you are, it's easy enough to assume you're just a Bioware or PR bot trying to drone up support for this terrible ending and Biowares poor choices.

Can you explain to me how I'm out of touch. I seem to recall starting this by saying I didnt liek the endings and would like new ones just as much as ys you? This kind of hostilitay will get you nowhere

Starting with "I agree with you but..." doesn't negate everything else you write, buddy. It's as effective as Kanye saying "I'm really happy for you and I'm going to let you finish but...."

[daguest]

incinerator950 wrote...

If I was serious about this, I would have been banned for calling the community out as a bunch of morons who need mental evaluations.

I did the mental evaluation. You could be surprised by the result. And btw, it means nothing.

[plaguecaller]

detroitmechworks wrote...

plaguecaller wrote...

Who are you talking about in Bioware that cares can you name them? Bioware does not speak to masses which this grass roots group is at the moment. Two weeks and counting- still nobody taking thew steps to actually start talking to bioware reps- wtf.
 
What reps do you have to present your position who is speaking for you to bioware?

Who have you elected to represent you to bioware and how did you do so? Was it by consensus, polling, mail in campaing? What was used to get your core of leadership? 

Tell us how you are going to legitimize these identified leaders in your gtoup?

Where is your desiganted spokes person that is savvy enough to strum the news cycle which works on a 90 minute rotation? Where is your media campaign? I don't see it.

Whats your message?- its dijointed.

Where is you leadership what are their names and who have they been talking to?

Go read some books on grass roots organizing such as Piven and Clowards stuff and come up with a plan. This monb level stuff is goinng to get old fast

Bioware is the power at the momement and you are a marginilised group until you can talk with that power through its representatives. Go figure out how you are going to do that. Other wise in time you will drift to the fringes of the community =unheard anymore.

I think some are talking this a tad to seriuosly. So I give you the galaxy song - cheer up.

Not sure if serious...

You're actually saying that the company needs to be treated like a political entity in order to get the ending we want?

Ya know... at that point, we will just give up.  Bioware won't get our money and we'll spend it elsewhere.

So uh... no.

Give up huh? Cause what its too tough? Its too much like having to do something? 

If you think siiting on your asses is going to do it you have already failed. Bioware knows that as well as any other person that ever successfully pushed for change or understands change.

By demandeing a change in the endings you have already become political. Go form a bioware buyers group or something get some legimticy going instead of just being rabble.

Some of you raised 50+ k - Go get some money to register an advocacy group through your suipporters and begin the real work.

[Soverign 666]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Soverign 666 wrote...

VonVerrikan wrote...

Seeing how completely out of touch from reality you are, it's easy enough to assume you're just a Bioware or PR bot trying to drone up support for this terrible ending and Biowares poor choices.

Can you explain to me how I'm out of touch. I seem to recall starting this by saying I didnt liek the endings and would like new ones just as much as ys you? This kind of hostilitay will get you nowhere

Starting with "I agree with you but..." doesn't negate everything else you write, buddy. It's as effective as Kanye saying "I'm really happy for you and I'm going to let you finish but...."

I pointed out some problems I feel the retake movement is going to have. If it appeared any other way Im sorry. But the fact that a good portion of the responses have been attacks against me instead of what I said seems to validate what I said.

[Kloborgg711]

plaguecaller wrote...

You've got to be kidding me.

[Kloborgg711]

Soverign 666 wrote...

I pointed out some problems I feel the retake movement is going to have. If it appeared any other way Im sorry. But the fact that a good portion of the responses have been attacks against me instead of what I said seems to validate what I said.

Your "suggestions" were:

You have no power.
You guys look immature and whiny.
This isn't going to work.


Great. Why are you even trying to defend yourself any longer? Didn't you JUST admit to being a troll?

[Timforsgren]

This attitude sickens me, it couldn't be that Bioware actually cares about what their most passionate fans think of their games? We do have a voice in this and your pessimistic attitude doesn't provide anything, it's just uncalled for.

Something as major as this has never been done before, we are raising money for charity, making our way into major media channels, etc.

Just because you are bitter and pessimistic you don't have to try and rally sympathizers just so you'll feel better about yourself or something.

I might overreact but this is SO counterproductive.

[Soverign 666]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Soverign 666 wrote...

I pointed out some problems I feel the retake movement is going to have. If it appeared any other way Im sorry. But the fact that a good portion of the responses have been attacks against me instead of what I said seems to validate what I said.

Your "suggestions" were:

You have no power.
You guys look immature and whiny.
This isn't going to work.


Great. Why are you even trying to defend yourself any longer? Didn't you JUST admit to being a troll?

No I didn't please show me where I did that. maybe you should go back to school to learn how to read

[Almostfaceman]

Soverign 666 wrote...

 Ok let me start off by saying I support the Retake movement I would love a new ending DLC but I think you guys have really overestimated how much you can "force" Bioware/EA to give you new endings by hurting them financially. Lets look at a few things.

1. Most of you have already bought the game. Bioware/EA already has your money and you are the most vocal opposition to the game. But through word of mouth we can hurt sales you say? Well....

2. Most people wont care about the endings. Let's face it most gamers are concerned about gameplay and when they hear 99% of of the game is amazing but the last 5-15 minutes suck they're still going to buy the game. As for people who are invested in the game series and want a satisfying conclusion they probably A: already bought the game B: Will want to see how it ends no matter how bad it is C: Will convince themselves it couldn't really be that bad.

3. You guys have a bad reputation. So let's say Im looking into buying ME3 unlike most people (who will buy off how the game looks) I do some research I here some fans are complaining about the ending. I read some articles about how you guys are "entitled whiners" (I don't support this view). Also BSN has been infamous for being nitpicky and unpleasable.

In the end you guys might cause a slight drop in sales but you arent going to do enough damage to "force" bioware/EA to do anything. I've seen some military analogys about how your "Overwhelming bioware" but I'd like to make my own analogy. Bioware has already won your just the gurillea fighters harrassing them. You might cause enough of an annoyance to make them appease you but you won't drive them out. The truth of the matter is we fans are driven by emotion instead of logic we will fight even when we know we can't win.

 

Thanks for the feedback! Is there anything positive you'd like to mention about the Retake Mass Effect Movement?

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 
More than 50k just for a completely new ending.

Nice!  I had never seen that poll!  Well, that makes 3.5 million sales, and 50,000 votes on a poll in an internet forum.  I know the counter argument will be "not all 3.5 million were actual people buying the game."  So let's go with 1 million people have the game.  That means your poll represents 0.05 percent of the people witht the game.  That is not a good sample, so the poll doesn't say describe anything beyond "forum users."

[KaeserZen]

a tarAbout your previous post comparing game to segregation. Read his again. He wasn't.

He was summarizing what you wrote as "Know your place". This is exactly what you did, regardless of whether anyone input 20th century references.

Lianaar wrote...

Hell no. None can tell you what you enjoy and what you find good. It is your sole right to decide what you enjoy, whom you trust, what you buy. None else can do that decision for you.
You are free to express your view anywhere and you are free to ask a company to consider your views.
I didn't even say I like the ending.
My point is: I fear that forcing the company to change the ending is setting a dangerous precedent, which I fear will lead to lack of bravery to break the old recipes in game making.

First : It is not a precedent : Bethesda has retconned Fallout 3. This retcon has been very appreciated.
Second : I don't think acknowleding you made a major mistake in game design is lack of bravery. Standing up, admitting it, and fixing it takes twice or thrice as much balls as trying to glance the issue away.

Lianaar wrote...

I hope they create it with having a well defined target group, which they know and which they make the game for.
I presume they have marketing department who scans the market for different needs and then decides which segment to work for.

So, they make a series of 2 RPGs with heavy choice, implication of the player and control over the experience for people who are looking for that. And they completely change the target group for the last instalment of what is designed as a trilogy, without noticing anyone ? And to add insult to injury, the dev/producers interviews heavily targeted the original target group ?
Change the marketing department.

Lianaar wrote...
Then they write ideas and they test it, refine it and eventually release it, then listen to feedback which they include in their work. Certainly this is what I want. However none demands that a writer republishes a book because it didn't end the way readers wanted it to end like. I have read many books which had little flaws here and there. I took it at face value. It would be very disappointing if those writers said: oh, you don't like it, let me rewrite it. Or how about Mona Liza, I find her unattractive and the painting totaly disappeals to me, so please, let us repaint it? Or let's stick to Picasso who is way more controversial in his reception. A whole lot of people think his work is increadibly bad. Should we then force him to paint something else? No. It is his right to paint what he wants, and we can decide wether or not we check what he painted or not. But I would be appalled if anyone made a movement to make him change his painting style or change a given peace they produced.

First : You can't compare the entertainment experience of a vook and a video game. In a book, you are passive.
In a game, you are active. In BioWare game, you are exceptionnally active in the direction of the story and its vaslty diverging outcomes. Which was clearly not the case with the ending.

Second : Art in the Renaissance period was mostly commissionned by the consumers. If the purchaser didn't like it, the painter would have to tweak it to get his money.

Third : Picasso painted for himself and a target group of people who would appreciate it. He never told "I will be making a classic figurative art, if you want to sponsor my exposition with a major masterpiece at the end of the tour", then pulled a Guernica on his sponsors.

Fourth : In business, an unhappy customer situation leads to very few outcomes : No more purchases / Ask for a refund / Ask for some change.
Why doesn't it disturbs you that if you are contacted by an artisan to change your doors, and that you don't like the doorknobs he installed, you can have him change them, while asking a writer to change part of the work he markets and makes a business model around is outrageous ? Are you implying writers are more entitled to do what they want than artisan, or any other tradesman on Earth?

Lianaar wrote...
And let us not go into what is art or not, so maybe I should have pulled a map which has illustrations you dislike or pulp fictions... I am sure you see the point.

I won't discuss what art is, I will discuss what art has : a creator and a receptor. Make what you want out of it. I beleive that art, as anything else on the planet, is value by people jugding and rating it.

[detroitmechworks]

plaguecaller wrote...

Give up huh? Cause what its too tough? Its too much like having to do something? 

If you think siiting on your asses is going to do it you have already failed. Bioware knows that as well as any other person that ever successfully pushed for change or understands change.

By demandeing a change in the endings you have already become political. Go form a bioware buyers group or something get some legimticy going instead of just being rabble.

Some of you raised 50+ k - Go get some money to register an advocacy group through your suipporters and begin the real work.

No.  This is not political.  This is a bunch of people who are annoyed at a company who is not listening.

So, we raised some money in an attempt to show we were serious.

They gave us PR bs.

Far as I'm concerned... End Of The Line.

Fine you win, Bioware.  You got my money.  You won't get any MORE of it.  or any more of my attention.

[vigna]

Doing nothing ensures you will get nothing from them. Except weapons packs for $10.