160 réponses à ce sujet

[Adsinjapan]

Get off the Forums!

[Kloborgg711]

Soverign 666 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Soverign 666 wrote...

I pointed out some problems I feel the retake movement is going to have. If it appeared any other way Im sorry. But the fact that a good portion of the responses have been attacks against me instead of what I said seems to validate what I said.

Your "suggestions" were:

You have no power.
You guys look immature and whiny.
This isn't going to work.


Great. Why are you even trying to defend yourself any longer? Didn't you JUST admit to being a troll?

No I didn't please show me where I did that. maybe you should go back to school to learn how to read

Good one, I laughed really hard at that joke. Any ways, I never thought I would have to show a person what they themselves said, but here we go:

" Most of you have already bought the game. Bioware/EA already has your money"
"Most people wont care"
"You guys have a bad reputation"
"BSN has been infamous for being nitpicky and unpleasable. "
"you arent going to do enough damage to "force" bioware/EA to do anything."
"even when we know we can't win."

Is that jogging your memory a little?

[Dark_Caduceus]

I'm asking to be valued as a consumer, I'm demanding an explanation for why the endings are the way they are. I'm not demanding the ending be changed, I already saw what Bioware intended to do with the endings.

I'd like some accountability for the lies spouted by the ME3 marketing team and developers. This: does not depict many different endings, it depicts the same cut scene with minor alterations. That's not what I intended to buy.

I would be taking myself too seriously if I held Staples accountable for advertising and selling a printer/scanner/fax machine which actually only faxes and prints, and only does so in colour.

[ed87]

"Hold the line" came from Bioware. Its just ironic that we as fans are now using that phrase to incite an internet riot against them.

Whether we 'win' or 'lose', the uproar itself is already worth it. The gaming community will be talking about this for years to come, and Bioware's screw up will be made an example of in the history of gaming.

Lastly, these companies DO put a money value on their brand. Hurt the brand, hurt the company.

[Soverign 666]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Soverign 666 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Soverign 666 wrote...

I pointed out some problems I feel the retake movement is going to have. If it appeared any other way Im sorry. But the fact that a good portion of the responses have been attacks against me instead of what I said seems to validate what I said.

Your "suggestions" were:

You have no power.
You guys look immature and whiny.
This isn't going to work.


Great. Why are you even trying to defend yourself any longer? Didn't you JUST admit to being a troll?

No I didn't please show me where I did that. maybe you should go back to school to learn how to read

Good one, I laughed really hard at that joke. Any ways, I never thought I would have to show a person what they themselves said, but here we go:

" Most of you have already bought the game. Bioware/EA already has your money"
"Most people wont care"
"You guys have a bad reputation"
"BSN has been infamous for being nitpicky and unpleasable. "
"you arent going to do enough damage to "force" bioware/EA to do anything."
"even when we know we can't win."

Is that jogging your memory a little?

Ok where did i admit to being a troll? You still havent proved to me you understand the english language.

[plaguecaller]

You've got to be kidding me.

Name one person in bioware that cares? Do you know who could be your potential internal allies in Bioware? Have you identified them? Have you actually even got any names?

Name one person in the change movement or a couple of them that are talking to specific bioware reps .

Modifié par plaguecaller, 18 mars 2012 - 05:48 .

[Kloborgg711]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 
More than 50k just for a completely new ending.

Nice!  I had never seen that poll!  Well, that makes 3.5 million sales, and 50,000 votes on a poll in an internet forum.  I know the counter argument will be "not all 3.5 million were actual people buying the game."  So let's go with 1 million people have the game.  That means your poll represents 0.05 percent of the people witht the game.  That is not a good sample, so the poll doesn't say describe anything beyond "forum users."

/facedesk

So if I poll 10000 Republicans across the country and ask if they like Obama, and 10000 say "No", that means only 10000 Republicans don't like Obama and the rest do? I don't think you understand what "sample" means, or how you extrapolate data. You're embarassing yourself.


Before anyone else nitpicks, I'm not saying it's an accurate sample, but this "LOL ITS ONLY 50,000 / #SALES" fallacy is just childish.

[Thornne]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 
More than 50k just for a completely new ending.

Nice!  I had never seen that poll!  Well, that makes 3.5 million sales, and 50,000 votes on a poll in an internet forum.  I know the counter argument will be "not all 3.5 million were actual people buying the game."  So let's go with 1 million people have the game.  That means your poll represents 0.05 percent of the people witht the game.  That is not a good sample, so the poll doesn't say describe anything beyond "forum users."

...

We just discussed this, like two posts back.  National polls (in the USA extrapolated to ~300 million) are done in the thousands.  I think this sample size is more than sufficient.

If you don't want to believe that most people didn't like the ending, that's fine.  Don't believe it.  If you liked the ending, that's great. Please stop telling me what I should think about the ending.

[Rafe34]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 
More than 50k just for a completely new ending.

Nice!  I had never seen that poll!  Well, that makes 3.5 million sales, and 50,000 votes on a poll in an internet forum.  I know the counter argument will be "not all 3.5 million were actual people buying the game."  So let's go with 1 million people have the game.  That means your poll represents 0.05 percent of the people witht the game.  That is not a good sample, so the poll doesn't say describe anything beyond "forum users."

That's a great sample size.

When every single poll about this issue, regardless of where it originates from, has 85%+ of people saying the ending was entirely no good, you have an issue.

Obviously, you've never heard of polling. They take far less people in order to get an idea of how 300mil+ feel. 50k out of 1 mil is a very good sample size.

[Kloborgg711]

Soverign 666 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Soverign 666 wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Soverign 666 wrote...

I pointed out some problems I feel the retake movement is going to have. If it appeared any other way Im sorry. But the fact that a good portion of the responses have been attacks against me instead of what I said seems to validate what I said.

Your "suggestions" were:

You have no power.
You guys look immature and whiny.
This isn't going to work.


Great. Why are you even trying to defend yourself any longer? Didn't you JUST admit to being a troll?

No I didn't please show me where I did that. maybe you should go back to school to learn how to read

Good one, I laughed really hard at that joke. Any ways, I never thought I would have to show a person what they themselves said, but here we go:

" Most of you have already bought the game. Bioware/EA already has your money"
"Most people wont care"
"You guys have a bad reputation"
"BSN has been infamous for being nitpicky and unpleasable. "
"you arent going to do enough damage to "force" bioware/EA to do anything."
"even when we know we can't win."

Is that jogging your memory a little?

Ok where did i admit to being a troll? You still havent proved to me you understand the english language.

Sorry, I'm not going to spoonfeed everything you say back to you for your convenience. This "LOL U DONT SPEAK ENGLISH" crap is ridiculous, grow up.

[JPR1964]

Soverign 666 wrote...

No I didn't please show me where I did that. maybe you should go back to school to learn how to read

You're a troll, plain and simple...

You're indirectly insulting the players who support the retake movement, you're stating your opinion as fact, and you're dismissive about all the others...

I'm sorry sir, but for me, you look really like a troll...

So don't feed the troll! 

Hold the line!

JPR out!

[SandTrout]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 
More than 50k just for a completely new ending.

Nice!  I had never seen that poll!  Well, that makes 3.5 million sales, and 50,000 votes on a poll in an internet forum.  I know the counter argument will be "not all 3.5 million were actual people buying the game."  So let's go with 1 million people have the game.  That means your poll represents 0.05 percent of the people witht the game.  That is not a good sample, so the poll doesn't say describe anything beyond "forum users."

/facedesk

So if I poll 10000 Republicans across the country and ask if they like Obama, and 10000 say "No", that means only 10000 Republicans don't like Obama and the rest do? I don't think you understand what "sample" means, or how you extrapolate data. You're embarassing yourself.


Before anyone else nitpicks, I'm not saying it's an accurate sample, but this "LOL ITS ONLY 50,000 / #SALES" fallacy is just childish.

Thanks for covering this for me Kloborgg. RinpocheSchnozberry is once again showing he ignorance.

[In Exile]

Soverign 666 wrote...
In the end you guys might cause a slight drop in sales but you arent going to do enough damage to "force" bioware/EA to do anything. I've seen some military analogys about how your "Overwhelming bioware" but I'd like to make my own analogy. Bioware has already won your just the gurillea fighters harrassing them. You might cause enough of an annoyance to make them appease you but you won't drive them out. The truth of the matter is we fans are driven by emotion instead of logic we will fight even when we know we can't win.

I look at DA2 and a bunch of angry, "entitled" Bioware fans and see a 50% drop in sales from DA:O.

Mass Effect 3 had great word-of-mouth. But now you've got a dedicated group  going around trashing this franchise, like when DA2 was announced.

Whether or not ME3 is a success, Bioware is going to need ME4 to be a success too. They could always write off their audience and make a pure FPS, but that's probably going to kill another part of their DA/TOR fanbase.

[Kloborgg711]

plaguecaller wrote...

You've got to be kidding me.

Name one person in bioware that cares? Do you know who could be your potential internal allies in Bioware? Have you identified them? Have you actually even got any names?

Name one person in the change movement or a couple of them that are talking to specific bioware reps .

You don't need internal allies to boycott a company's product, Mr Bourne.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

So if I poll 10000 Republicans across the country and ask if they like Obama, and 10000 say "No", that means only 10000 Republicans don't like Obama and the rest do? I don't think you understand what "sample" means, or how you extrapolate data. You're embarassing yourself.


Before anyone else nitpicks, I'm not saying it's an accurate sample, but this "LOL ITS ONLY 50,000 / #SALES" fallacy is just childish.

"Across the country" is different from "on the social.bioware.com" forums.  :)

I'm glad you agree it's not an acurate sample.  That means no worthwhile conclusions can be drawn from it regarding the opinions of the majority of ME3 gamers.  It's not a fallacy simply because you disagree. 


And you're getting into personal attacks.  Please be civil, thanks!

[The Real Bowser]

No dude, if you are making threads like this you do not, in any way, support the retake movement.  I'm sorry, but you're just lying to yourself or us.

[Thornne]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
"Across the country" is different from "on the social.bioware.com" forums.  :)

Ok, now it looks like you're just poking people to get a rise out of them. Have fun with that, and have a nice day.

[Kloborgg711]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

So if I poll 10000 Republicans across the country and ask if they like Obama, and 10000 say "No", that means only 10000 Republicans don't like Obama and the rest do? I don't think you understand what "sample" means, or how you extrapolate data. You're embarassing yourself.


Before anyone else nitpicks, I'm not saying it's an accurate sample, but this "LOL ITS ONLY 50,000 / #SALES" fallacy is just childish.

"Across the country" is different from "on the social.bioware.com" forums.  :)

I'm glad you agree it's not an acurate sample.  That means no worthwhile conclusions can be drawn from it regarding the opinions of the majority of ME3 gamers.  It's not a fallacy simply because you disagree. 


And you're getting into personal attacks.  Please be civil, thanks!

/facedesk*2
You're right, the phrase "across the country" differs from the phrase "on the social.bioware.com" both in meaning and in the arrangement of letters. Congratulations, now what's the argument you're going to present based on that stunning analysis? Oh, three smiley faces? Interesting, interesting. I'll get back to you on that.

Oh, and "the poll is not entirely accurate and suffers from some bias" does not equal "LOL THROW IT OUT IT MEANS NOTHING". A slight bias does not account for a 2% satisfaction rate. This dealing in absolutes is hideously fallacious.

[Almostfaceman]

Not saying this for the benefit of the OP, obvious troll is obvious. I'm gonna say a small bit about what they teach you in customer service.

The dissatisfied customer will not only not buy your product any longer. They will tell their friends. They will tell their family. A dissatisfied customer will affect on average eight to 10 people, whereas a satisfied customer will affect 2 to 3 people. It's human nature, we complain more than we share the praise.

Obviously a company cannot do anything and everything to eliminate every single dissatisfied customer, but there are things they can do to keep unhappy customers to a minimum. Anything they reasonably can do, they should do.

There is obviously a huge negative buzz about ME3 on the internet. Bioware can't be happy about it. The want to sell to as many people as possible, and this problem is not in any way going to help with that.

[shurryy]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

That's fair, but those polls are taken in different venues.  As for the 50,000...  That many have voted on the polls?  I don't think so.

Yes, 50k have voted on some of the polls. Your ignorance is showing.

Link?  ^_^

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 
More than 50k just for a completely new ending.

OHHHH... Burnt. 

Haha jk. xD 
Ugh im so not serious today... But yeah we take the case rather seriously. Why shouldn't we? 

[Claym0re]

Us:

Adding insult to injury, literally, necessary?

Sovereign 666:

Maybe not, felt good, though.

Modifié par Claym0re, 18 mars 2012 - 05:57 .

[OSUfan12121]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 
More than 50k just for a completely new ending.

Nice!  I had never seen that poll!  Well, that makes 3.5 million sales, and 50,000 votes on a poll in an internet forum.  I know the counter argument will be "not all 3.5 million were actual people buying the game."  So let's go with 1 million people have the game.  That means your poll represents 0.05 percent of the people witht the game.  That is not a good sample, so the poll doesn't say describe anything beyond "forum users."

Wow someone doesn't know how polls work. Theres also polls on facebook, G4 and other gameing sites about the ending. Each of those had anywhere between 5k to 30k people voting in them as well but apparently that sample size isn't indicitive of anything either. Why bother responding when someone shows you a logical answer and you see fit to shoot it down with, "Oh this doesn't fit how I feel so its not good enough".

[plaguecaller]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

plaguecaller wrote...

You've got to be kidding me.

Name one person in bioware that cares? Do you know who could be your potential internal allies in Bioware? Have you identified them? Have you actually even got any names?

Name one person in the change movement or a couple of them that are talking to specific bioware reps .

You don't need internal allies to boycott a company's product, Mr Bourne.

You want change you do need to be talking to some one and this group is not talking to anyone at bioware, has no consitent mesaging or a communication plan.

That's why you are being treated as a joke, most media does not report your story well, people turn off you. 

[Lianaar]

Mass Effect was not commissioned. It was made by BioWare and offered for people to buy it. Even in Renaissance some people refused to let their supporters tell them what and how to do things and they survived. So yes, it is pretty much just like Picasso (who by the way did make works on commission, but that's beside the point). And yes, it can be compared to a book way more then it can be compared to anything else. No matter what you do, you can not step out of the limits set by the writers of the game. You can not stay on Earth. It is just not an option. You -must- and -will- go off with the Normandy. You can not say you won't be Alliance military. You don't have those choices. No matter what you do, the frame is set and you move within that frame set. That's not too far away from a book. A video game is of course a different genre then literature, I don't argue that. But it is not table top RPG with a GM altering evens based on your choice.

Legally the matter is pretty simple. BW has the intellectual property rights, not you. Thus is it their work, not yours.

Regardless, the choices mattered, just not where most people expected them.
Mass Effect has been a linear game, from the first game on. There never was a detour in the events, the elements came after each other. This didn't change whatsoever.

I don't mind if someone comes to my door and asks me to change the doorknob.
But I think if people see that coming up to my house and issuing demands will make me appease them, I'll find myself living in a house that has no cohesion whatsoever and is simply ugly, because person A asking for the change of door and person B asking for the change of the window didn't care to match their tastes.

If I want to live in a house, I won't task 50000 different people to build me the 50 000 parts of the house. I'll task a single one, to arrange for the house to be built. There needs to be a leading idea, there must be a coherent and unified concept. And as I said over and over again: I worry that will be lost.

No, I am not sure it will be lost. This is also something I pointed out. I said, it might be good in the end (stated in my dress reference). But I still prefer to trust the professionals with their job because I deem the chance of success higher.

[KaeserZen]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 
More than 50k just for a completely new ending.

Nice!  I had never seen that poll!  Well, that makes 3.5 million sales, and 50,000 votes on a poll in an internet forum.  I know the counter argument will be "not all 3.5 million were actual people buying the game."  So let's go with 1 million people have the game.  That means your poll represents 0.05 percent of the people witht the game.  That is not a good sample, so the poll doesn't say describe anything beyond "forum users."

That is some serious denial pal.

Journalists and political analysts use sample bases of 1.000 to 2.000 to illustrate trends in the USA. That's not 1,4% (oh, by the way 50.000 / 3.500.000 it not 0,05%, but 1,4% get your Math straights before using them, please, you'll do yourself a favor)  that's 2.000 / 260.000.000, and that still represent serious trends for a single trend. When all the inividual polls are aggregated, I'm not ven sure it represents 1,4% of the entire U.S. population (that would be 3.640.000 people surveyed.

Don't beleive me?

http://www.huffingto...n_n_725503.html Aggregate of polls

http://i2.cdn.turner...1/22/rel19d.pdf Extract of one poll of this aggregation

Our numbers are representative. Deal with it.