160 réponses à ce sujet

[garf]

Soverign 666 wrote...

 Ok let me start off by saying I support the Retake movement I would love a new ending DLC but I think you guys have really overestimated how much you can "force" Bioware/EA to give you new endings by hurting them financially. Lets look at a few things.

1. Most of you have already bought the game. Bioware/EA already has your money and you are the most vocal opposition to the game. But through word of mouth we can hurt sales you say? Well....

2. Most people wont care about the endings. Let's face it most gamers are concerned about gameplay and when they hear 99% of of the game is amazing but the last 5-15 minutes suck they're still going to buy the game. As for people who are invested in the game series and want a satisfying conclusion they probably A: already bought the game B: Will want to see how it ends no matter how bad it is C: Will convince themselves it couldn't really be that bad.

3. You guys have a bad reputation. So let's say Im looking into buying ME3 unlike most people (who will buy off how the game looks) I do some research I here some fans are complaining about the ending. I read some articles about how you guys are "entitled whiners" (I don't support this view). Also BSN has been infamous for being nitpicky and unpleasable.

In the end you guys might cause a slight drop in sales but you arent going to do enough damage to "force" bioware/EA to do anything. I've seen some military analogys about how your "Overwhelming bioware" but I'd like to make my own analogy. Bioware has already won your just the gurillea fighters harrassing them. You might cause enough of an annoyance to make them appease you but you won't drive them out. The truth of the matter is we fans are driven by emotion instead of logic we will fight even when we know we can't win.

 

No Closure

No Sense

No Future

No Choice...

No Money. Hold The Line.

[Deemz]

Sion1138 wrote...

garf wrote...

No Closure

No Sense

No Future

No Choice...

No Money. Hold The Line.

Sums it up.

Yep

[Lianaar]

In response to KaeserZen

[quote]Mass Effect 3 was commissioned in a way. [/quote]
This is exactly, what I have issues with. This is namely not true. I know what you are getting at, but you use wrong wordings and thus invalidate your own claim. If you would refrase them, it might have more merit.
Commission: buyer goes to seller and gives money so the work he asks for is done.
Mass Effect was by no means commissioned.
If BW decided to never make ME3, it was their right to do. If it was commissioned, then it was not their right to do.
Having a demand for something and trying to fulfill that demand doesn't make it commissioned in any way.

Sidenote: Mona Liza is believed to be commissioned, but was worked on for 4 years and it never ever reached the hand of the presumed commissioner. It was inherited by assistant of the artist and bought by a king. I guess the commissioner didn't intend that painting to go unfinished, but Leonardo did consider it unfinished. Thus even commissions don't go as they are intended at times, still it can be good in the long run.
Or lets look at a modern time example: in the USA a dentist was sued successfully for pulling out all teeth of a patient, despite the patient commissioning the dentist to do just that!
Or computer programers -- their goal is not to make the program what the customer asks for, but what the customer needs. It is a difficult art to find that, but that's exactly what they do.

[/quote]but your position within it is flexible. [/quote]
You sit on a train and can decide which way to turn, but you can not leave the railroad or build new railroads. The ride is stil fun, but it is not freely shapable. Thus it is not table top RPG style, but a novel style. I can not really find other comparissions since I acknowledge video games to be a different genre of its own right having own perks.


[quote]Yes, it is their work, we don't own it. But we have a say, because we own our free speech. And we are not simply raging, we are pointing them to their mistakes (the ones we perceive) and to suggestions to sweeten the deal.[/quote]
Totally your right to do so. I have nothing against it.

[quote]Fans don't want to make the product. [/quote]
Fans want to pull a thread without considering what other things is tied to that thread. Maybe it helps the outcome, but maybe it screws up something else. I don't want to change the ending as it will likely bring up way many other problems, and then we can have a new movement of other group of people being displeased about the change and ask for another change. This is what I worry about. There will always be displeased people. It is unavoidable.
I want BW to listen to constructive criticism. I want them to listen and collect data and find the rout of the problem and find a solution. I don't want them blindly comply with player wishes. I think my analogies are correct, so I won't repeat them.

My question: any member of the movement considered what else will be affected if the end is changed? What will be with people who liked the ending and will feel cheated for the end to be changed? Do they have LESS right then those of the movement? Does the movement have a unified stand on what they want to be changed? 

This all goes without me making a claim that I am happy or unhappy with the ending. I don't take a stance on that. I speak generally. I am sure the movement consists of too many people to generalise them actually.

[quote] Once the professional skills are to be doubted of, wouldn't you step in ? [/quote]
Why, do I know better?  I don't really think so. And yes, I would say, this part of the game made me feel this way and I would appreciate a different feeling ( I did provide criticism for some part of the game in other forums). But no way would I demand they change a given part, as I don't know (not being professional and knowing the inner working of the craft) how changing one part will change other parts. 

Lets get back to your car analogy. So I bought a car and it is not working. I take it to the repair guy and say: change this screw here. No, that's not what I'll say. I'll take it to a professional and say: the car shows this symptoms and I wish it wouldn't show those symptoms.

See he difference? I am fine with the repair guy/girl repairing the car in a way they see fit. But I am not fine with them doing exactly what I want them to do, as in changint that wheel, oiling that cylinder.

[Penguinlover]

DarthTrey wrote...

 Wow, so the "Retake ME3" movement wants to hurt the sales of Mass Effect 3 in order to get Bioware to change the ending...

First of all, if a game doesn't do well, the last thing a developer is going to do is want to continue supporting it. The cost of development time and marketting are not worth it at all if the game isn't doing well. Up until this point, I was respectful of the Retake movement, but I am starting to agree that a good portion of its supporters are entitled whiners. The game hasn't even been out for two weeks! You have no idea what Bioware plans on doing with dlc or the series in general. And regardless of how you feel about the ending, Mass Effect has been a great journey. Why would fans intentionally try to hurt the series? Way to spit in the face of Bioware. We as gamers have the easy job, we just get to play the game and **** about it on the forums. The Bioware team has put countless hours and sleepless nights into this series. Way to be loyal fans. 

I don't agree that we should continue to be loyal to Bioware just because they used to make great games, if a company tanks, it should be because it was not performing to the standards it should. When I finished the ending I felt utter disappointent and sadness. After a couple of days of mellowing out I realised it was a great series and it was tarnished by an utterly awful ending. However, I would love to play more Bioware games in the future, there is no better games company in my opinion that can take thier place. They did put a lot of effort into catering for the fans and they always make the effort to keep on contact with the forums. They messed up, and hopefully they wont make the same mistake again. If people want to pay money to charity or cancel their SWTOR accounts in disgust, that is entirely up to them.

The forums can at times be quite hysterical, I think that is the downside of having a passionate fan base, but there is only so many times I can see **** the line before I start to gag. It's nice to see some of this energy going to great causes but lets not kid ourselves that this ending should be changed at any cost. It is a little sad that people can turn from the most dedicated fan to someone who is wanting Bioware to go bankrupt because they made a bad judgement call. Personally, if this caused Bioware to suffer as a company, I would feel sorry for them, for making an amazing series, the best I ever played, for trying to make it the most involving and immersive RPG ever.

I think if people spent some time away from the forums and reflect a little on the situation, they may not feel quite so angry. Have a cup of tea, talk with a friend or remember the nice things about ME, fixating on this too much is not healthy.

Thank you

Modifié par Penguinlover, 18 mars 2012 - 07:06 .

[IsleySilverlord]

ME3 won't be the last BW game.

It's not really the current ME3 what is in danger, their future is.

Future DLC, DA3, any MMO or RPG they'll try to sell us, future will be dark for them if they just ignore us. We've been their supporters and diehard fans for years, they can shoot us and they'll be hurting themselves.

Modifié par asdoorip, 18 mars 2012 - 06:51 .

[HITMAN629]

Logic is half the reason behind the ending arguements. We are not trying to "force Bioware out" as you put it. We are trying to show them that we care about this francise enough to try to change it if we feel something is wrong. Even if they say that they wont change it, I have no regrets because at the very least I can say that I tried.

[Artking3]

DarthTrey wrote...


Let me be clear. I'm not saying that people shouldn't complain about the ending, I'm not saying that people who complain about the ending are ungrateful to Bioware, I'm merely expressing my frustration with the Retake Movement's attempts at hurting Mass Effect 3's sales because they don't like the game's, while still demanding that Bioware change it. 

Bioware is a corporation. The bottom line to a corporation is its sales, hurting its future sales is the only way to get its attention.

1 to 3.5 million copies (depending on who you ask) of ME3 has already been sold, and cannot be returned in most cases. BW already has most of the paid gaming media to help its sales. If unhappy consumers do not try to hurt its sales, BW would think everything is business as usual and put no effort into its customers' wishes.

[spychi]

Soverign 666 wrote...

 Ok let me start off by saying I support the Retake movement I would love a new ending DLC but I think you guys have really overestimated how much you can "force" Bioware/EA to give you new endings by hurting them financially. Lets look at a few things.

1. Most of you have already bought the game. Bioware/EA already has your money and you are the most vocal opposition to the game. But through word of mouth we can hurt sales you say? Well....

2. Most people wont care about the endings. Let's face it most gamers are concerned about gameplay and when they hear 99% of of the game is amazing but the last 5-15 minutes suck they're still going to buy the game. As for people who are invested in the game series and want a satisfying conclusion they probably A: already bought the game B: Will want to see how it ends no matter how bad it is C: Will convince themselves it couldn't really be that bad.

3. You guys have a bad reputation. So let's say Im looking into buying ME3 unlike most people (who will buy off how the game looks) I do some research I here some fans are complaining about the ending. I read some articles about how you guys are "entitled whiners" (I don't support this view). Also BSN has been infamous for being nitpicky and unpleasable.

In the end you guys might cause a slight drop in sales but you arent going to do enough damage to "force" bioware/EA to do anything. I've seen some military analogys about how your "Overwhelming bioware" but I'd like to make my own analogy. Bioware has already won your just the gurillea fighters harrassing them. You might cause enough of an annoyance to make them appease you but you won't drive them out. The truth of the matter is we fans are driven by emotion instead of logic we will fight even when we know we can't win.

 

[Spectre-00N7]

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. If anything, I am giving Bioware a chance to redeem themselves for lying to me about the 16 different ends that aren't just A, B, or C.