328 réponses à ce sujet

[Oryonn]

SNascimento wrote...

 First, I need to say why the endings are good.
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Let's focus on the big picture and not be short sighted. Shepard gave the galaxy for the first time in millions of years a change to develop again in its own way, more than that, with the destruction of the mass relays, each species will evolve in a more unique way. And this for me is the beauty of the endings. Actually, if you take the green ending, life will develop in a way that not even the creator of the reapers could have fallowed.
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Think about the Krogans, for example. They will be able to rebuild themselves with minimum interference from other species, a chance they never had. Same thing for the quarians and geth... depending ony your actions, they will try to live on peace together... and alone. The success of it will depend on the creators and the created, no one else. And so on.
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And it's not like the galaxy will be isolated. From the codex we know ships in ME can travel something like 10 light years per day, that is very fast. Maybe not fast enough to the wide galaxy travels, but enough for most  people go back to their homeworld from Earth if they want (Wrex, for example) and enough for space travel and colonization to be viable.
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In this part, I don't think the game lacked any closure of made our decisions meaninless. They do matter, but in a context different from the one in which they were made. A better one, if you will.
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Not that everything was perfect, though. The dialogue with the Guardian was worse than I expected. It was something we were expecting since ME1, and it just didn't deliver. And of course, the Normandy flying away. That was just out of place, I wouldn't mind a bit of clarification there.
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Now that it's all said, here is why Bioware CANNOT change the endings:
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Simply put, it will be a crime with those who actually liked it. Who actually feels their jurney with Commander Shepard came to a meaninful and fulfilling conclusion. They cannot just take it away from those people.
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Now, Bioware shouldn't change the endings at all, but if they want to tweak them a bit, the only thing I would ask is to not change them. Maybe improve the Normandy scene a bit, or offer a bit more option like what Shepard will do with the reapers once you control them. But in no way just erase the ones that are there and put new ones in the place.

How would offering a DLC with a a different ending/epilogue be a crime to you guys who liked it?
... and you call us self-entitled. God, you Pro-Ending are getting more annoying than the ragers. No one is taking anything, some of us would just like an ending that did justice to the series through DLC. You Pro-ending peeps will still have your beloved ending and we will have the chance at one that makes sense to us.

[Costin_Razvan]

Meltemph wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

There's no need for Bioware to remove the current endings. They just need to add an ending that's not an incoherent wreck that spits on everything Shepard's accomplished during the entire Mass Effect series.

There is one already. It's called Control.

Umm...What?  

Check the link in my signature. You will know what I am saying.

And yes the endings are far from perfect, but I do like them. A lot actually.

I find hard it complain about a supposed ending cinematic where we see the people from our squad or former squad members, what happens to them etc. when the cinematics of ME3 are just SO epic. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have wanted that though.

On the other hand I do not want epilogue slides because they would force perspective in a game series where perspective is EVERYTHING.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 18 mars 2012 - 07:51 .

[Linus108]

Those who like the ending only like it because of the general ideas it represents. These are people that feel Shepard having to sacrifice himself for the greater good is a tragic but perfect way to end a hero story. (As self-sacrifice is a typical way to end a hero plot). 

But what these people fail to realize is that the actual plot that sets this up is awful. It has plot holes, lore errors, makes no sense. Re-writes past plot and is just non-sense (illogical).  It relies too much on fantasy devices to solve problems that the ending sets up. They also fail to realize that what Shepard is sacrificing him/herself for is something completely idiotic, therefore it undermines the sacrifice.

So yes, BioWare should totally give us more choices or extend the ending -- and disregard those that don't care about the complexity of plot, and who accept story at face value if it means achieving surface themes. Actually, I think BioWare must have assumed most of their fan base was like these kind of people. Only way it makes sense they wrote that kind of an ending and thought it would pass.  

Modifié par Linus108, 18 mars 2012 - 08:08 .

[ed87]

No one expects the ending to be changed. They expect alternative endings.

People currently raging will ask for it to be changed, but we all know how rage makes us say drastic things

[Meltemph]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

There's no need for Bioware to remove the current endings. They just need to add an ending that's not an incoherent wreck that spits on everything Shepard's accomplished during the entire Mass Effect series.

There is one already. It's called Control.

Umm...What?  

Check the link in my signature. You will know what I am saying.

And yes the endings are far from perfect, but I do like them. A lot actually.

I find hard it complain about a supposed ending cinematic where we see the people from our squad or former squad members, what happens to them etc. when the cinematics of ME3 are just SO epic. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have wanted that though.

On the other hand I do not want epilogue slides because they would force perspective in a game series where perspective is EVERYTHING.

The initial problem though is still there.  The reapers.  We dont know the implications of the reaper control, it is left to our imagination.  Hell that little brat even says you will ose what you are when you do this.  So does Shep completely die or does he becoem a reaper? If he becomes a reaper who is to say he will be the same "Shep" as he was before becomign a reaper and if he dies, these survival at all cost things are still around.  At that point it may be a "happy" ending, but it is still and nonsensical one.  The reapers entire arguemetn was against singualrities and the option that fixes thsi problem is for Shep to become part of the singualrity?  I dont see how that makes any sense.

[Spectre-00N7]

SkyCaptanio wrote...

If they released it as DLC then people who liked the original endings could just not download it.

this

[Holoe4]

 Alright then, let's just leave the galaxy doomed... 

[Costin_Razvan]

Meltemph: I despise the Catalyst myself, should mention that.

I do believe however that making a DLC that would change the ending decisions and their consequences would be the worst thing they could do. A DLC ADDING dialogue or changing the dialogue to the Catalyst would be perfectly fine but ONLY if it's free.

The notion of a free DLC from EA, especially after From Ashes is LAUGHABLE so I will fight against the movement to change the endings. 

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 18 mars 2012 - 08:03 .

[SandTrout]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Check the link in my signature. You will know what I am saying.

And yes the endings are far from perfect, but I do like them. A lot actually.

I find hard it complain about a supposed ending cinematic where we see the people from our squad or former squad members, what happens to them etc. when the cinematics of ME3 are just SO epic. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have wanted that though.

On the other hand I do not want epilogue slides because they would force perspective in a game series where perspective is EVERYTHING.

All endings explicitly destroy the Mass Relays.

[CitizenSnips]

Yes, they can.

[Costin_Razvan]

All endings explicitly destroy the Mass Relays.

Ignore what logic there is in favor of none, good for you.

[gmboy902]

Holoe4 wrote...

 Alright then, let's just leave the galaxy doomed... 

Oh, here I thought they were just too unprepared and unprofessional to have an ending thought up and solidified by the time they realised the Arrival DLC.

Now I know that they were so rushed in making it that they actually forgot to remove codex entries in the game itself that clearly refutiate the ending.

[Linus108]

gmboy902 wrote...

Holoe4 wrote...

 Alright then, let's just leave the galaxy doomed... 

Oh, here I thought they were just too unprepared and unprofessional to have an ending thought up and solidified by the time they realised the Arrival DLC.

Now I know that they were so rushed in making it that they actually forgot to remove codex entries in the game itself that clearly refutiate the ending.

The writers use space magic and fantasy devices to get them out of their bad writing. Didn't you know...

[GnusmasTHX]

Those who liked it, don't download the DLC. Pretty simple.

[FellishBeast]

This isn't even a matter of the majority disliking it. I have my opinion, yeah. I don't like the ending one bit. BUT...not to appear so ignorant as to claim my opinion is fact, but I would argue that the ending is objectively inconsistent with the rest of the game and out of place in the context of this series. That is pretty much what you would call a "bad" ending. You could call it "artistic" or "bold," (two things I respect) but essentially it throws the driving force behind the game out the window. The ending of Mass Effect was supposed to be satisfying and bring a close to the series. It was supposed to give us answers to all of our questions and show us the consequences of our actions throughout our entire playthrough. It did none of this. In fact it makes us doubt whether we ever knew the characters at all and just leaves us with more questions.

[Meltemph]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Meltemph: I despise the Catalyst myself, should mention that.

I do believe however that making a DLC that would change the ending decisions and their consequences would be the worst thing they could do. A DLC ADDING dialogue or changing the dialogue to the Catalyst would be perfectly fine but ONLY if it's free.

The notion of a free DLC from EA, especially after From Ashes is LAUGHABLE so I will fight against the movement to change the endings. 

We dont know what would happen if this hold the line movement actually sees DLC that changes the endings.  That said, if Sherlock can do it, you can bet your ass Bioware can, imo.  Tat said, I am not part of the hold the line movement...at least I dont say I am.  But when you ruin your own work, TBQH, I dont care what you try, but you better try something to fix it and I quite hoenstly dont think fixing the ending AS IS, unless they go with indoctrination, will make it better.  

I dont, hoenstly, see a single good defense for teh writing of the endings.  Only defenses I see of the ending, completely(and pruposely) blind themselves to all teh implications.  While I dont blame people for doing this to enable themselves to "like" the ending. I personally dont wanta ending I "like" I want a good ening period, at this point.

And sorry for my last post, I just realized how many typo's were in it...

[Costin_Razvan]

I don't blind myself to any of the implications. I believe the Relays being destroyed in destroy will not wipe out all life, but since I don't even take that and I choose the Control one...well I just don't care for the others.

The biggest reason why I defend the endings is that Control is imo the best and that would mean TIM was right. If he wasn't then that would make him a ******. Him being ultimately right is the ONLY thing that redeemed him as a character to me after the BS Bioware did to him over the course of the game.

The fact is the endings are vague as hell, and I don't mind that. What I would have prefered is for Synthesis to be completely removed, the Catalyst doesn't show up. TIM isn't indoctrinated and you get to pick who to side with; TIM or Anderson.

Siding with TIM would force you to either kill Anderson or persuade him whereas sidding with Anderson would force you to shoot/persuade TIM, but just because the endings do NOT fit my mental image of what should have been done doesn't mean I will spit, and ****, and whine about them like others have done. 

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 18 mars 2012 - 08:24 .

[Meltemph]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I don't blind myself to any of the implications. I believe the Relays being destroyed in destroy will not wipe out all life, but since I don't even take that and I choose the Control one...well I just don't care for the others.

The biggest reason why I defend the endings is that Control is imo the best and that would mean TIM was right. If he wasn't then that would make him a ******. Him being ultimately right is the ONLY thing that redeemed him as a character to me after the BS Bioware did to him over the course of the game.

The fact is the endings are vague as hell, and I don't mind that.

My problem isnt that it is vague, my problem is the vagueness is based on quite literally broken logic and philosophy.  How many Scifi books/movies that you know of, breaks its own rules at the end of the series, and that book/movie series is still considered good?  Becaue honest to God, I tried to think of 1, and I cant.

Modifié par Meltemph, 18 mars 2012 - 08:25 .

[Costin_Razvan]

How does it break it's own rules? Explain that first. As for the Catalyst as I said I think it's bad, but in both destroy and control you disagree with it.

Control is: I assume direct control.
Destroy is: I wipe you Reapers out.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 18 mars 2012 - 08:26 .

[blacqout]

VegaMendoza wrote...

What part DLC being optional do you not get?

Why should BioWare release additional content solely for those that didn't like the way the game ended? I loved the game, and would download absolutely any single-player DLC.

You and your ilk are utterly, shamefully selfish.

[OblivionDawn]

People who make crappy decisions can keep the crappy endings. It's as simple as that.

Everyone else who invested so much time into the series should get proper endings.

[silvercharmer]

OP: "You're wrong. Just stand there in your wrongness and be wrong and get used to it." - President Bartlet.

If you like the ending, I'm glad for you. I envy you. You can walk away from the series happy and content. You are also apparently in a very small majority.

But liking the ending is very different from it being a good ending. I like the movie Day After Tomorrow. Doesn't change the fact that it's a terrible movie featuring people running from cold.

You cannot argue the ending is bad. It is terrible storytelling. I have studied story for years. I have a bachelor's and MFA in creative writing. You can call me pretentious for saying so, and you may be right, but that doesn't change the fact that this is terrible storytelling. There are lots of things that are subjective. You can think that the cutscene with Garrus on the Citadel is corny or poignant, and you could make an argument for both. You can say you like James Vega as a character or think he's boring and underdeveloped. Again, you can make arguments for both.

But you cannot argue that this ending is good storytelling that adequately concludes this trilogy. It's not subjective. It IS bad. I don't understand how they came up with it, what their intentions were. Whether it was lack of time, a moment of insanity, sheer stupidity, reading too much Alistair Reynolds or simply the wrong person steering the course, we'll never know. From a team of people who have proven to be very good storytellers, I can't imagine they actually thought this was a great decision.
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Do they HAVE to change it? Money will tell. CAN they change it? Why can't they? They should. And besides, if it is changed, it would have to be DLC. So why are you worried?

[Meltemph]

How does it break it's own rules?

The mass effects blowing up, character agency, synthesis doing what it does, destroy(supposedly) doing what it does. Now I agree control breaks the LEAST amount of rules, by a fairly long shot, but it still forces you to "trust" that the writers will supply you with new rules after blatantly breaking them. Also, breaking its own rules to me is the same as breaking the logic and philosophy of the series, the writers setting it up as that.

Also, the cotnrol ending, like I said before, what shep can do is vague and the only things we can assume is, it breaks it's own rules. Either it is implying Shep dying after controlling the reapers, for whatever reason, changes the point of the reapers(based on nothing otehr then welcome to the catalys), because he says stop or he becomes a reaper himself and somehow does not become a singularity while becoming a singularity.

[DarkRPG]

SNascimento wrote...

 First, I need to say why the endings are good.

Fix your OP, its ENDING, not endings.  A different color, your last squad mates walking out of the normandy, and either reapers flying or falling does not constitute as "endings" when for all intent and purposes they're practically the same. 

[ticklefist]

blacqout wrote...

VegaMendoza wrote...

What part DLC being optional do you not get?

Why should BioWare release additional content solely for those that didn't like the way the game ended? I loved the game, and would download absolutely any single-player DLC.

You and your ilk are utterly, shamefully selfish.

Cause they're in it to make money and people want this more than anything.