328 réponses à ce sujet

[FOX216BC]

SkyCaptanio wrote...

If they released it as DLC then people who liked the original endings could just not download it.

I agree, so why all the fuss.
everybody happy. it's a win/win situation right.

[Aweus]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I dismiss any poll that can be tampered with, and the currents can have that by just logging off and creating a new user, especially with all the anger right now.

What I don't dismiss is the people who have donated to Child's Play, because for that you actually spent money.

Why dont ME3's ending supporters dont tamper with this poll as well then? You can do that to show your support to Bioware. Not enough steam? I once spent weeks fighting on Blizzard forums with people who didnt liked the story of Starcraft 2. Contrary to current ME3 situation I was there to support the game producer. Situation was different however. First of all it was not so one-sided as it seems in our case here. Opinions were polarized and the topic was actually truly controversial. Also any possible fix that the "haters" demanded was complicated and required to rewrite pretty much entire game. What we are asking for here is a loosy DLC that will fix a LOT of issues many people have with ME3. It would help Bioware's reputation, let them earn some more cash even, make many people happy and not damage the mood of people who already like the ending (just dont download it or just keep picking old ending option). It would be a win-win situation. All that can be lost is a bit of self-imposed corporate pride on Bioware side.

Modifié par Aweus, 18 mars 2012 - 10:59 .

[Legbiter]

SNascimento wrote...

 First, I need to say why the endings are good.

Yay, everyone is dead or trapped on some dead end world. I really want to buy the next Bioware game so I can feel like a failure again.

[Dragoonlordz]

Aweus wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Well as I said I have no problem with optional DLC to fix your issues, I should state however I think would be a wrong move to give a choice of Shepard lives happily ever after type option. If Shepard lives people will continue to desire to see him or her again in the next title or a spin off title. This flies against the biggest element to the end of the trilogy in which all along was stated it was the end of Shepard's story but not the end of Mass Effect. I do not want Shepard back for the next title and I think letting him live will give people false hope that will be in the next game, failing that if he or she is alive there will be a lot of people asking to bring him back. Same principle as the Warden in Dragon Age franchise.

There are many people who believe there is no Mass Effect franchise. There is Commander Shepard franchise (as directly quoted from a talk I had with a friend yesterday). So in such case it is natural they want Shepard preserved. However I dont think that having Shepard in another set of God knows how many games is what we are fighting here for. At least I dont. Even if Shepard would survive, you can still just end his story right here. Besides, if you have 4000-5000 EMS and choose the "red" ending you get an implication at the end that Shepard might have survived somehow. How does this go with your claim that Shepard MUST die? Honestly, did every hero in fiction history had to die in order to end his story? No! So in any case, a "Disney ending" as some people call it should be an OPTION. Along with a set others, including also those that we already have (but with added better explanation).

I had like 15k+ EMS using 'gibbed' save editor but I still chose the green ending. I also still in believe what I said about no hills alive with sound of music style endings. The optional DLC enhanced alternative to current endings I am thinking is more along lines of maybe epilogue slides/cards or general information. Some more exposition for those who require it and maybe plug few plot issues for some. Anything more than that like additional custscenes, getting people back for additional VO, and sitting down writing and developing extra content along the lines of gmaeplay I think your probably talking few months in the making and I doubt fair amount of those who were unhappy with it would be willing to wait that long though I could be wrong. If people are willing to wait months for it then fair enough to add all those things. Ofcourse they may not change anything so you should brace yourselves for that as a possiblity regardless.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 mars 2012 - 11:04 .

[Aweus]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I had like 15k+ EMS using 'gibbed' save editor but I still chose the green ending. I also still in believe what I said about no hills alive with sound of music style endings. The optional DLC enhanced alternative to current endings I am thinking is more along lines of maybe epilogue slides/cards or general information. Some more exposition for those who require it and maybe plug few plot issues for some. Anything more than that like additional custscenes, getting people back for additional VO, and sitting down writing and developing extra content along the lines of gmaeplay I think your probably talking few months in the making and I doubt fair amount of those who were unhappy with it would be willing to wait that long though I could be wrong. If people are willing to wait months for it then fair enough to add all those things. Ofcourse they may not change anything so you should brace yourselves for that as a possiblity regardless.

It is your right to pick the ending you like and I fully support that. In a way I am happy for you that you found an ending that satisfied you. Speaking of DLC production. I fully understand that it would take time and resources. But it has been done in the past. When they created Lair of the Shadowbroker or Arrival thay also had to go through all those lenghts. I wont speak for others but I am ready to wait several months for it. Heck, I dont even ask them to give us any announcements NOW. I also understand that analysing the situation and making decission also takes time. I just hope they will pick one that will be satisfying for most of us.

[The Night Mammoth]

[quote]terdferguson123 wrote...

I am so sick of all you "Take Back ME3" posters. You guys are so annoying and your wrong about the majority of what you say. The ending does explain what happened, you just weren't paying attention throughout most of the game/series apparently. [/quote]

There must be two doezen threads detailing exactly why this assertion is wrong. 

Seriosuly, there are numerous things wrong with the ending that no one can explain without a severe leap of faith. 

One example: your crew teleporting aboard the Normandy from Earth as it flees faster than light. 

[quote]Secondly, if I hear another person say your choices don't matter I will literally **** a brick. YOUR CHOICES MATTER, all of the stuff you do up until the end of the game are choices you make, the consequences of those choices effect who goes into battle with you through your EMS.[/quote]
EMS basically unlocks what color you want to destroy the galaxy with. So yeah, I suppose your choices do matter. 

[quote]What else do you need? Do you really need some reassuring voice at the end to tell you that the Geth fought for you, even though you already know they did?[/quote]

Well yeah, since Bioware have built a trilogy around this premise. 

[quote]This argument about your choices not effecting that game makes no sense, and never has.[/quote]

Like I said, pick a color. 

[quote]Is it so hard to believe that when fighting an ultra powerful force that was literally designed to destroy all advanced life in the galaxy that you won't be able to get out of that fight without something dastardly happening to the galaxy. [/quote]

Certainly not, but the ending is bleak for no purpose whatsoever. And it's the only outcome. Shepard isn't a tragic hero, hence why the ending being universally dark is hilariously stupid. 

[quote]The OP is right, and Shepard says it from the very beginning "This is about Survival." That's exactly what it is, I'm so sorry that you didn't pay attention throughout the game when everyone had a bleak output about what would happen. [/quote]
Too bad we're guaranteed to have killed off the majority of our friends and allies. Shepard didn't assure the survival of anyone. 

[quote]Did you guys actually take Garrus' "vacation island" literally, if you did your an idiot. He knew that the vast majority of life in the galaxy as well as possibly himself was going to die, it's called coping, thinking about those things that you wish you had before you die. [/quote]
Garrus never talks about an island. 

[quote]The point is, the endings are exactly what this series has been culminating too since we found out about the Reapers.[/quote]

Not really. In fact, since Shepard emodies hope and is the diametric opposite of tragic there's no reason to assume that there has to be only one tragic ending, other than people think that's deep and edgy. 

Or they have some strange narrow perception of the games themes. Like you. 

[quote]To stop their cycle, something drastic had to change, if you guys could see for a second that possibly the destruction of the Mass Effect relays was actually the right choice for the LONG-TERM.[/quote]

Something drastic did happen. It's called the Crucible and it's a massive cop-out and idiotic plot device. It's a Deus Ex more than anything else. 

The Mass Relays blowing up is completely meaningless. There's literally no logical explanation for it. 

[quote]I realize that nobody wants to see the majority of people die due to your choices, but the point of the ending was that in order to stop a cycle that has gone on for so long, it needs to have a fresh start. [/quote]
Why though? Destroying the relays basically accomplishes exactly what the Reapers wanted. Choosing anything but the colour red leaves them alive and allows the possibility for them to return some day. 

[quote]It's depressing, it's bleak, and it's rough, but if you thought it was going to be any different then I question whether you have been playing the same series as I have.[/quote]

To think that there can only be one very pointlessly dark ending leads me to question if you've been playing the same trilogy as I have.  Hope against the inevitable and player choice are the game's driving themes.

Within the last five minutes, both of these elemetns are largley extinguished in favor of a plot hole filled mess which contradicts pretty much everything about the series, introduces a whole bunch of literary  and logical fallacies, all with the purpose of "Lots of speculation for everyone!".

Serisously, if that was indeed their goal, they must have gotten rid of the entire design team at the last hurdle and hired a bunch of zoo animals. 

[quote]Again, I quote Shepard "It's about survival" Changing the endings would be doing a disservice to this theme of absolute survival at all costs, that has persisted throughout the entirety of the series.
[/quote]

Keeping them the same would achieve that as well, with the added bonus of p*****g off most of the fanbase.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 18 mars 2012 - 11:22 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

You do realize that poll is only a sample, right? Not everyone who did not liked the ending will come and vote in this poll. Same as of course not everyone who liked it will vote either. But if you have even a basic grasp of statistics science you would understand what all those online polls are implying (hint: there is a lot more of us than 20-30 thousand).

Are there? Well where? Can you back up your claim with anything then speculation? Can you claim the poll speaks facts for the entire ME3 fanbase? I don't believe so.

The poll is flawed. It's a purely internet poll after all, and those are always flawed.

There's only one semi-legitimate problem with it, and that's an uncertain amount of subject bias.

The sample size is large and open enough to assure its validity.

[Costin_Razvan]

The issue with the poll is that for ME3 we had the game troll bombed since the day it came out. We had hundreds of people giving it very low scores since day 1 when very few people had actually finished the game, and I still think only hardcore fans have finished the game so far for the most part ( myself included in that category ) so how exactly am I to take it seriously when I know how much people were ready to flame the game before it even came out?

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 18 mars 2012 - 11:29 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I dismiss any poll that can be tampered with, and the current one can have that by just logging off and creating a new user, especially with all the anger right now that is expected, and as I have stated you can vote in that repeteadly without even creating a new user.

The first point is a pretty hollow attempt to dismiss it. Doing anything on the forums requires a 24 hour wait. That alone should deter people from creating multiple accounts. It can also happen for all sides of the poll, so it's pretty negligible. 

On the second, I'm fairly certain that's not even true. I for one can't. 

What I don't dismiss is the people who have donated to Child's Play, because for that you actually spent money and I am very much willing to accept there are 10 times as many people who dislike the endings then those who donated.

But not more, not without proof.

I'd say the facebook page adds to it, as does the official website, and the Twitter account. The poll obviously you've dismissed.

[TK EL_]

Sigh, for the umpteenth time. You like the ending = opinion. The endings were good = not opinion. The endings were terrible = fact. Why? It contradicts its source material. OP you glossed over the stuff the AI child said as "worse than you expected". I don't know what your expectations were, but it was a game breaking disaster and the presented choices are an extension of that.

So you can like the endings, that's fine. But in the interest of the loss of the least amount of credibility, they need to retcon the crap out of this thing. They are going to lose credibility with either route but more so if they let the endings stand as they would confirm they are now terrible writers as opposed to just conceding the endings as a rushed mistake

[AmaraDark]

Regardless if you like or not, there are numerous plot holes in the endings that -should- be fixed. Many, many people have come up with alternatives that would give options for better endings - the forum has been swimming in ideas that are better then the endings we were given, I've got one of my favorites in my sig.

- spells out the plot holes very politely and clearly.

[Aweus]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The issue with the poll is that for ME3 we had the game troll bombed since the day it came out. We had hundreds of people giving it very low scores since day 1 when very few people had actually finished the game, and I still think only hardcore fans have finished the game so far for the most part ( myself included in that category ) so how exactly am I to take it seriously when I know how much people were ready to flame the game before it even came out?

Then why I keep reading so often that people like 99% of the game apart from ending? Once in a while I see some voice who tells the game overall is bad and **** but its like 1 in 100 or whatever the impression may be. Every single "big" game will be trolled on places like Metacritic etc. You are right about this. But I truly and sincerely believe that Take back Mass Effect is something more than that. In any case, even if you keep dismissing us and keep asking for proof. Could I humbly ask you to present similar proofs showing that your standpoint is correct? Becouse I am sorry, but so far a collection of anything that can be remotely classified as facts is piling up against you.

Modifié par Aweus, 18 mars 2012 - 11:38 .

[Ryoten]

SNascimento wrote...

 First, I need to say why the endings are good.
.
Let's focus on the big picture and not be short sighted. Shepard gave the galaxy for the first time in millions of years a change to develop again in its own way, more than that, with the destruction of the mass relays, each species will evolve in a more unique way. And this for me is the beauty of the endings. Actually, if you take the green ending, life will develop in a way that not even the creator of the reapers could have fallowed.
.
Think about the Krogans, for example. They will be able to rebuild themselves with minimum interference from other species, a chance they never had. Same thing for the quarians and geth... depending ony your actions, they will try to live on peace together... and alone. The success of it will depend on the creators and the created, no one else. And so on.
.
And it's not like the galaxy will be isolated. From the codex we know ships in ME can travel something like 10 light years per day, that is very fast. Maybe not fast enough to the wide galaxy travels, but enough for most  people go back to their homeworld from Earth if they want (Wrex, for example) and enough for space travel and colonization to be viable.
.
In this part, I don't think the game lacked any closure of made our decisions meaninless. They do matter, but in a context different from the one in which they were made. A better one, if you will.
.
Not that everything was perfect, though. The dialogue with the Guardian was worse than I expected. It was something we were expecting since ME1, and it just didn't deliver. And of course, the Normandy flying away. That was just out of place, I wouldn't mind a bit of clarification there.
.
Now that it's all said, here is why Bioware CANNOT change the endings:
.
Simply put, it will be a crime with those who actually liked it. Who actually feels their jurney with Commander Shepard came to a meaninful and fulfilling conclusion. They cannot just take it away from those people.
.
Now, Bioware shouldn't change the endings at all, but if they want to tweak them a bit, the only thing I would ask is to not change them. Maybe improve the Normandy scene a bit, or offer a bit more option like what Shepard will do with the reapers once you control them. But in no way just erase the ones that are there and put new ones in the place.

Your logic is as screwed up as the endings themselves.

[The Night Mammoth]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The issue with the poll is that for ME3 we had the game troll bombed since the day it came out. We had hundreds of people giving it very low scores since day 1 when very few people had actually finished the game, and I still think only hardcore fans have finished the game so far for the most part ( myself included in that category ) so how exactly am I to take it seriously when I know how much people were ready to flame the game before it even came out?

Its numbers. 

You can say the poll isn't an absolute indicator, but you shouldn't dismiss it entirely. 

[betd2]

If you don't like a dlc ending DON'T DOWNLOAD IT

[Costin_Razvan]

I certainly don't, as I stated before. In fact the first thing I thought about the ME3 ending after I finished it: Oh some, some people are going to hate this, and I was right.

[Nevaeh15]

If they do "fix" the endings.... shouldn't that make it better for everyone? People who like the current ending could get an ending that they absolutely love... and people who don't like them can get the same... Why not fight for that?
It's just nonsense to pass up a chance to make a great game better... wtf is a fan base for if not that?

Modifié par Nevaeh15, 18 mars 2012 - 11:49 .

[Kingthlayer]

VegaMendoza wrote...

What part DLC being optional do you not get?

OK, so it's DLC.

Now what happens when BioWare decides to make a game based on the Mass Effect universe post Reaper invasion?  Which ending is real?

[Pelle6666]

Who cares what you think? You don't have to download the dlc if there will ever be one! Why should the rest of us, the vast majority of fans have to fall in line with what you happens to like or rather, not fully understood?

[TK EL_]

terdferguson123 wrote...

I am so sick of all you "Take Back ME3" posters. You guys are so annoying and your wrong about the majority of what you say. The ending does explain what happened, you just weren't paying attention throughout most of the game/series apparently.

Secondly, if I hear another person say your choices don't matter I will literally **** a brick. YOUR CHOICES MATTER, all of the stuff you do up until the end of the game are choices you make, the consequences of those choices effect who goes into battle with you through your EMS. What else do you need? Do you really need some reassuring voice at the end to tell you that the Geth fought for you, even though you already know they did? This argument about your choices not effecting that game makes no sense, and never has.

Is it so hard to believe that when fighting an ultra powerful force that was literally designed to destroy all advanced life in the galaxy that you won't be able to get out of that fight without something dastardly happening to the galaxy. The OP is right, and Shepard says it from the very beginning "This is about Survival." That's exactly what it is, I'm so sorry that you didn't pay attention throughout the game when everyone had a bleak output about what would happen. Did you guys actually take Garrus' "vacation island" literally, if you did your an idiot. He knew that the vast majority of life in the galaxy as well as possibly himself was going to die, it's called coping, thinking about those things that you wish you had before you die.

The point is, the endings are exactly what this series has been culminating too since we found out about the Reapers. To stop their cycle, something drastic had to change, if you guys could see for a second that possibly the destruction of the Mass Effect relays was actually the right choice for the LONG-TERM. I realize that nobody wants to see the majority of people die due to your choices, but the point of the ending was that in order to stop a cycle that has gone on for so long, it needs to have a fresh start.

It's depressing, it's bleak, and it's rough, but if you thought it was going to be any different then I question whether you have been playing the same series as I have. Again, I quote Shepard "It's about survival" Changing the endings would be doing a disservice to this theme of absolute survival at all costs, that has persisted throughout the entirety of the series.

You've missed the point by a long mile. The plotholes in these endings are meteor crater sized and personally there is no way this series can move forward without them being addressed. If we could reject Deception, then we sure as hell can reject this. I'm not a child and I don't assume anyone here is, so its not about being bleak or depressing, not for me anyway.

The same way Deception spat in the fact of established canon and lore, so too do these endings. Maybe YOU weren't paying attention through most of the game/series but many of us were. Let me be clear, and this may not be as diplomatic as many would like but not changing/retconing the edings would be doing a disservice to the series as a whole. The plotholes are non compromising in their size and number to where there is no other option.

[Kathleen321]

The Real Bowser wrote...

Bioware CANNOT change the endings

First, I need to say why the endings are good.

I read this much and I can already tell what the gist of the rest of the thread is.

1. They can change the endings.
2. Your opinion is not fact, no matter how much you wish it to be. (real shocking, I know)
3. The endings are bad according to the majority of the playerbase. You are in the minority. Those of us that want the ending changed don't want to ruin your endings, we just want ours. So if you want to mindlessly follow starkid's flawed logic and kill off Shepard letting them win, feel free, but we're not going to put up with this crappy storytelling.

this.

[The Night Mammoth]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

VegaMendoza wrote...

What part DLC being optional do you not get?

OK, so it's DLC.

Now what happens when BioWare decides to make a game based on the Mass Effect universe post Reaper invasion?  Which ending is real?

Whichever one they choose.

Ever played Dawn of War: Dark Crusade? Amazing strategy game, even if I didn't care for the tabeltop game or its setting too much.

Anyway, there are campaigns for each faction, meaning each one can effectively come out victorious and destroy the others. Basically, there was always one single 'canon' ending the developers had. Why can't Bioware have that? 

Or, just don't make another game in the near future, both in reality and in universe. 

Or, since it's a Mass Effect game, have a set of descions which reflect how the universe is and allow you to import your save game. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 19 mars 2012 - 12:07 .

[Meltemph]

The crucible firing destroys the Citadel. The Citadel controls and coordinates all the Relays, and after you just blew that up you hit the Relays with an energy wave that overcharges them? How are they going to survive that?

I get this completely, my point is they shoe horned the relay's to do this just so they can excuse the idea of the ending. That is a BAD ending, even if it is the least broken.

You have a superweapon that is firing enough energy to destroy a Reaper, hell you have a weapon capable of wiping out ALL life in the galaxy and you think that's not going to do anything a Relay?

Another reason why the endings are broken. All the sudden the relay has the ability to wipe out the entire galaxy? That makes sense compared to everything we knew? All we knew is that it "locked" relays taht is it. IT feels tacked on and forced.

As for new rules: You mean in a sequel? Based on information we have Bioware doesn't plan on creating a game set after ME3, doesn't mean we can't have prequels though which I strongly suspect we will.

Ya this idea of a prequel...I dont have any interest in this.  The way the ME universe works and with all the books that have been written... ya, a prequel I at least woul;d not buy, specially after they ruined the whole point why I liked the setting.

As for Control: Here's my assumption, and yes in regards to the endings comes down to assumptions, Shepard's body disintegrates but his consciousness is transferred to the Citadel and he replaces the Catalyst as the overmind of the Reapers.

Yes, this is my guess too. This is why I have a destroy and a control ending, but the ONLY reason why I reasoned control to myself, was because of my attachment to the setting. But the control ending, literally, comes across as cheap and very ambiguous. And the sad part is, that is probably the least broken ending. That is how bad the ending is.

Modifié par Meltemph, 19 mars 2012 - 12:01 .

[Dussan2]

OP, you don't understand the problem with the ending. Shepard dying and everyone getting vaporized would be accepted IF IT ONLY MADE SENSE!

Every sentient fleet in the galaxy goes to Earth to stop Reapers. Shepard makes choice. Green, blue or red. Reapers stopped mission accomplished. Relays are destroyed by energy discharged, Citadel destroyed. Normandy then flies through a relay conduit to get hit by energy and lands on some strange world. Two humans talk about "The Shepard" as if he where legend.

That is the ending. And it makes no sense. Its left open ended but with too many plot holes that are completely unresolved.

Doesn't the relay release a supernova like wave of energy when destoryed? If so then shouldn't every system with a relay be equally destroyed? If not then why did the Normandy with your crew and sqauad leave earth during the fight and travel via relay? Where were they going? To escape the blast? Of what? Where were they going? With no relays what about the fleets surrounding earth? Quarian and Turian can't survive on earth for long with no food.

This isnt' a fight to change the ending for a happier one, it's to change a garbage poorly executed ending for one that is more in keeping with the standard we expect from this company.

[RicePicker]

**** THE 1%