328 réponses à ce sujet

[deaditegonzo102]

I feel like anyone who likes these endings, the GREEN in particular, suffers from severe tunnel vision. And I am not trying to be rude, and if I am I sincerely apologize, but I honestly cant see how some people are ignoring the EXTREME PLOT HOLES. A simple example is how your squadmates all got onto the Normandy, even the two that were with you. How? Thats just one of many, which make it sloppy, even if you do not consider it thematically and storywise incompatible with the rest of the game.

But, here are my thoughts on the green ending in particular:

Oh, also, to me the synthesis ending has always seemed the most vile. This is for many reasons, not the least of which being the fact that you are changing EVERY SINGLE BEING against their will.

But, the worst part about it, is that the Star Child basically says that unity CANNOT EXIST with diversity. That the universe needs to be RACIALLY cleansed, and HOMOGENIZED for a peaceful coexistence. Furthermore, that the remaining organisms would be superior to their predecessors. This is EXACTLY what Hitler thought too. It is the most evil possible suggestion a character (your admitted antagonist in fact) in a game could ever make, something that should have offended Shepard unto the core of his very soul, but Bioware played it up as the "Good" and "Heroic" ending. The happy ending. This to me could only mean the writing team didnt consider all the implications, as the alternative is far too dark to consider.

Basically, everything the Star Child says comes off as the script a super villain would use to confuse and mislead the hero, but even in a game that focuses on choice, we couldnt EVEN SAY NO!

And all the responses we've gotten from Bioware leave the impression that these endings were intended to be the final endings, despite the fact they just scream "Indoctrination".

[kookie28]

Do you like fedoras and shutter shades by any chance, OP?

[Haseeo]

Phattee Buttz wrote...

Now that it's all said, here is why Bioware CANNOT change the endings:
.
Simply put, it will be a crime with those who actually liked it. Who actually feels their jurney with Commander Shepard came to a meaninful and fulfilling conclusion. They cannot just take it away from those people.

The people who liked them are a minority. The people who disliked them are the loyal fans, the ones who are most invested in the series. They're the ones who stood in line for the midnight release; the ones who have bought the comics, the action figures, and all the other merchandise. Most importantly, they're the ones who will buy future games and DLC and who will recommend the game to friends.

Alienating this group is a terrible idea. Bioware doesn't have to change the ending. They can keep what they've got right now for the people who liked it, but add more for the huge group of people who are dissatisfied with RGB.

Been a fan since day one, have the comics, figures and all that.  One of those loyal fans you talk of and honestly I didn't mind the ending.  Would I buy DLC that might change it of course it'll be more Mass Effect and thats a good thing for me.  Would I care if they never did and kept the ending as it is no I'd just carry on playing the series I enjoy.

[JusticarDoom]

Bioware was indoctrinated by the rEApers.

[Meltemph]

Haseeo wrote...

Phattee Buttz wrote...

Now that it's all said, here is why Bioware CANNOT change the endings:
.
Simply put, it will be a crime with those who actually liked it. Who actually feels their jurney with Commander Shepard came to a meaninful and fulfilling conclusion. They cannot just take it away from those people.

The people who liked them are a minority. The people who disliked them are the loyal fans, the ones who are most invested in the series. They're the ones who stood in line for the midnight release; the ones who have bought the comics, the action figures, and all the other merchandise. Most importantly, they're the ones who will buy future games and DLC and who will recommend the game to friends.

Alienating this group is a terrible idea. Bioware doesn't have to change the ending. They can keep what they've got right now for the people who liked it, but add more for the huge group of people who are dissatisfied with RGB.

Been a fan since day one, have the comics, figures and all that.  One of those loyal fans you talk of and honestly I didn't mind the ending.  Would I buy DLC that might change it of course it'll be more Mass Effect and thats a good thing for me.  Would I care if they never did and kept the ending as it is no I'd just carry on playing the series I enjoy.

So you think the ending made literary sense?  Or was even a logical conclusion, based on the reapers supposed intent and the choices given to you? 

[Ecto-Plasmic Effect]

As long as the DLC is free.

[T-Raks]

1) How do you take something away you have already played?
2) When you liked it you don't have to update your game.
3) But I bet you would, just so you know what else could have happened - because this is actually what Mass Effect is all about in the first place.

[Haseeo]

I'm not getting into a argument about the points of the ending. Just saying I didn't mind it at all and thats that, I was just saying my 2 cents about future DLC that, might change the ending. It seems people who even remotely mention they didn't mind the ending right now get attacked for their views for no reason.

[JMJ_91]

The point is that people want a variety of endings. Four YOU to able to get your ending. If you like the current ones, good for you.

[Aanlen]

Have you not thought this through? The krogan can rebuild? Well, just to.. Inform you of some lore here: The Krogan live on a world that is destroyed by nuclear war. Its been that way for a very very long time. Since before they were uplifted. Their planet cannot on its own sustain life. And the ending imply that whatever you do, everyone lose their access to the stars. So yeah. Krogans= doomed to starve to death slowly. Also no wrex to keep control of the clans, seing he's stuck on earth. So yeah. The Krogan are doomed. The the Quarians have no knowlegde about argiuclture. Its not so easy to make enough food witout any knowhow when you dont have any technology. So yeah. The people who remained on Rannoch are doomed too. Thank you bioware. ALSO, you can see that the explotions made by the Relays going off are huge enough to be seen very far away. That would be total extinction. So what you're doing here, is the same kind of speculation as the ones who go with indoc theory. The ending doesnt say this. All you say are, if you think about it, is disproved in the ending. There is no closure. There is no "happy ending". I wont go into detail about it, seing there's so many posts that point out these insane flaws so well. Just read those, and you'll see that the endings only poses questions, NO answers. Only confusion, only plotholes, only flaws and **** that does not work logically.

AND ANYWAY. If they made a new ending, and you like the one they have now. Why does that matter? Just dont buy/download the new ending. When other fans say that they feel so bummed out they cant play the series again, dont you feel like a ****** saying that they shouldnt fix it, when all YOU have to do is just NOT play it and keep the original bad ending?

[sadako]

Haseeo wrote...

I'm not getting into a argument about the points of the ending. Just saying I didn't mind it at all and thats that, I was just saying my 2 cents about future DLC that, might change the ending. It seems people who even remotely mention they didn't mind the ending right now get attacked for their views for no reason.

Get attacked? Who's starting the offensive?

Do we go "HEY CHANGE THE ENDING so the guys that enjoy it are screwed!?"
Who's the people going  "BIOWARE SHOULDN'T CHANGE THE ENDING BECAUSE I LIKE IT..Screw the haters"

[Klijpope]

Even just a couple of clips showing Tuchanka and Rannoch as the wave hits them, so we can see that the immediate effect is not total destruction on whatever solution we applied there, could be enough to assuage the sense that all our decisions no longer matter.

I am assuming the end cinematics were just hamfisted, rather than the intention being to show galactic devastation (because that really does not make sense, rather than just not seeming to).

[Costin_Razvan]

sadako wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Optional DLC?

Arrival is optional but it's cannon in story sense, Lair of the Shadow Broker is optional yet it too is cannon. The reality is ANY ending DLC would make what happens in it cannon. That IS a fact.

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”

That means the choices you make are NOT cannon, but certain events do happen regardless of what you do. Arrival will always happen, LOTSB will always happen and an ending DLC will always be a fact regardless of what you can choose in it.

[Meltemph]

Haseeo wrote...

I'm not getting into a argument about the points of the ending. Just saying I didn't mind it at all and thats that, I was just saying my 2 cents about future DLC that, might change the ending. It seems people who even remotely mention they didn't mind the ending right now get attacked for their views for no reason.

Attacked?  I thought peopel come to forums to talk about the game, to find like minded people, but also to debate and have discourse about the game.  But I will play your game.

It seems people who even remotely mention that they like the game, don't want tot alk about the ending, because they don't think anyone elses view matters but their own.

While I don't think that, that is essentially what you just did.  Created a red herring, by implying I attacked you.  So, to you, people asking you why you thought the ending was x and y...is attacking.  And you dont think that is in the least bit intelectually dishonest?

Modifié par Meltemph, 18 mars 2012 - 06:31 .

[pavi132]

Haseeo wrote...

I'm not getting into a argument about the points of the ending. Just saying I didn't mind it at all and thats that, I was just saying my 2 cents about future DLC that, might change the ending. It seems people who even remotely mention they didn't mind the ending right now get attacked for their views for no reason.

I haven't seen people attacking those who liked the ending unless they are being ridiculous about and bashing people who didn't like the ending. Both sides of this argument have people doing that (media included). It's perfectly fine to like it, but many of us just disagree with you and believe a change is necessary or at the very least some further exposition on the current endings.

[pharsti]

They can, but they shouldnt, they should add endings, not change the ones that are available.

And by the way, if you think thats a crime, then what do you think about everyone who believed the statements that were made about how the game would play out its ending?

Yeah, go think about that.

[Arik7]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

sadako wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Optional DLC?

Arrival is optional but it's cannon in story sense, Lair of the Shadow Broker is optional yet it too is cannon. The reality is ANY ending DLC would make what happens in it cannon. That IS a fact.

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”

That means the choices you make are NOT cannon, but certain events do happen regardless of what you do. Arrival will always happen, LOTSB will always happen and an ending DLC will always be a fact regardless of what you can choose in it.

The events of the Arrival are not mentioned in ME3 if you don't get the DLC in ME2.  Andreson says "the sh*t you've done", without mentioning the Batarians.   I don't know about LOTSB.

Modifié par Arik7, 18 mars 2012 - 06:31 .

[Lugaidster]

SNascimento wrote...

 First, I need to say why the endings are good.
.
Let's focus on the big picture and not be short sighted. Shepard gave the galaxy for the first time in millions of years a change to develop again in its own way, more than that, with the destruction of the mass relays, each species will evolve in a more unique way. And this for me is the beauty of the endings. Actually, if you take the green ending, life will develop in a way that not even the creator of the reapers could have fallowed.
.
Think about the Krogans, for example. They will be able to rebuild themselves with minimum interference from other species, a chance they never had. Same thing for the quarians and geth... depending ony your actions, they will try to live on peace together... and alone. The success of it will depend on the creators and the created, no one else. And so on.
.
And it's not like the galaxy will be isolated. From the codex we know ships in ME can travel something like 10 light years per day, that is very fast. Maybe not fast enough to the wide galaxy travels, but enough for most  people go back to their homeworld from Earth if they want (Wrex, for example) and enough for space travel and colonization to be viable.
.
In this part, I don't think the game lacked any closure of made our decisions meaninless. They do matter, but in a context different from the one in which they were made. A better one, if you will.
.
Not that everything was perfect, though. The dialogue with the Guardian was worse than I expected. It was something we were expecting since ME1, and it just didn't deliver. And of course, the Normandy flying away. That was just out of place, I wouldn't mind a bit of clarification there.
.
Now that it's all said, here is why Bioware CANNOT change the endings:
.
Simply put, it will be a crime with those who actually liked it. Who actually feels their jurney with Commander Shepard came to a meaninful and fulfilling conclusion. They cannot just take it away from those people.
.
Now, Bioware shouldn't change the endings at all, but if they want to tweak them a bit, the only thing I would ask is to not change them. Maybe improve the Normandy scene a bit, or offer a bit more option like what Shepard will do with the reapers once you control them. But in no way just erase the ones that are there and put new ones in the place.

The game was always about choice. If you liked the ending, there's no need for you to download new endings. Why do you want my ending if it's for my shepard and not yours? Silly argument is silly...

[BLAHBLUE2001]

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

you can keep your endings. they should be an OPTION.

we just want MORE OPTIONS

This!

This sounds exactly like the argument against S/S LIs in the past... It's asking for an option! Don't want it? Dont take it.

[Trisskit]

BLAHBLUE2001 wrote...

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

you can keep your endings. they should be an OPTION.

we just want MORE OPTIONS

This!

This sounds exactly like the argument against S/S LIs in the past... It's asking for an option! Don't want it? Dont take it.

Exactly! Thank you!

[TheScott1987]

You'd still have your ending, and we'd have ours.

How is this at all a bad thing?

[spartan5127]

If you like this ending you will like any ending they decide to put up as dlc.

[Meltemph]

Lugaidster wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

 First, I need to say why the endings are good.
.
Let's focus on the big picture and not be short sighted. Shepard gave the galaxy for the first time in millions of years a change to develop again in its own way, more than that, with the destruction of the mass relays, each species will evolve in a more unique way. And this for me is the beauty of the endings. Actually, if you take the green ending, life will develop in a way that not even the creator of the reapers could have fallowed.
.
Think about the Krogans, for example. They will be able to rebuild themselves with minimum interference from other species, a chance they never had. Same thing for the quarians and geth... depending ony your actions, they will try to live on peace together... and alone. The success of it will depend on the creators and the created, no one else. And so on.
.
And it's not like the galaxy will be isolated. From the codex we know ships in ME can travel something like 10 light years per day, that is very fast. Maybe not fast enough to the wide galaxy travels, but enough for most  people go back to their homeworld from Earth if they want (Wrex, for example) and enough for space travel and colonization to be viable.
.
In this part, I don't think the game lacked any closure of made our decisions meaninless. They do matter, but in a context different from the one in which they were made. A better one, if you will.
.
Not that everything was perfect, though. The dialogue with the Guardian was worse than I expected. It was something we were expecting since ME1, and it just didn't deliver. And of course, the Normandy flying away. That was just out of place, I wouldn't mind a bit of clarification there.
.
Now that it's all said, here is why Bioware CANNOT change the endings:
.
Simply put, it will be a crime with those who actually liked it. Who actually feels their jurney with Commander Shepard came to a meaninful and fulfilling conclusion. They cannot just take it away from those people.
.
Now, Bioware shouldn't change the endings at all, but if they want to tweak them a bit, the only thing I would ask is to not change them. Maybe improve the Normandy scene a bit, or offer a bit more option like what Shepard will do with the reapers once you control them. But in no way just erase the ones that are there and put new ones in the place.

The game was always about choice. If you liked the ending, there's no need for you to download new endings. Why do you want my ending if it's for my shepard and not yours? Silly argument is silly...

I think it is a psychological thing to be honest.  They currently, apparently, liked the endings given, but if Bioware does a DLC for endings and they play it and like those endings more, it may undermine their enjoyment of the original ending(Or take away from the mindset that the original endings were good).  While I am no shrink, it does not seem to be much of a stretch to think that "some" are ok with the ending, think like this.

While I normally dont play this game, it seems those who like the ending, has no problem whatsoever making the same conclusions.

[Ryan546]

ALTERNATE endings, meaning that you can keep the one you like

[RunicDragons]

Then don't download the DLC!

Simple as that.