169 réponses à ce sujet

[michael12268]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Look, if you're gonna post another indoctrination theory support thread, just say that's what it is instead of saying it's something else. That's kinda annoying.

I don't understand how anyone could miss the point about the Illusive Man. He's perfected some level of control himself. Just because he's indoctrinated, does not preclude TIM from controlling others with what he's modified himself to do. Quite plainly, he is controlling Shepard and Anderson when he encounters them on the Citadel. All the Reaper growls and special effects are TIM controlling Anderson and Shepard. It's not any more complicated than that.

The whole concept of parts of the Citadel shifting and changing has been around since ME1 when people can be heard complaining about their offices being re-arranged. You can't just blithely state that there's only one corridor. We have no idea how many corridors there are or what's being changed with the architecture. It's entirely plausible that Anderson is witnessing the area being shuffled about and it's entirely plausible that he came from a different area than Shepard.

Look, we have a guy who was there when they made the ending to ME3. The Indoctrination Theory was not part of the plan. They just really messed up the ending, and people are grasping at straws trying to make sense of it. That's okay, I don't blame 'em since this ending is such a stinker. But let's not look for something that isn't there.

regarding the part about the offices being rearranged they were refering to the Keepers rearranging their offices and such

Modifié par michael12268, 18 mars 2012 - 06:58 .

[SyyRaaaN]

It's so funny . They are all so true. Fantastic stuff.

[TudorWolf]

I can appreciate what's being said there, but I cringe whenever I see "Shep is indoctrinated" (I have issues with the theory).

Interesting stuff all the same though

Edit:

And for the Illusive man controlling Shep/Anderson bit... That's not a plothole in theory since the whole Sanctuary plotline straight up tells you that Lawson/TIM developed a way to "override" the Reaper's control signal at close range. Albeit, that would suggest Indoctrination all the same... How troubling

Modifié par TudorWolf, 18 mars 2012 - 07:08 .

[TexasToast712]

 Needs to be updated with he/she, him/her.

Not everyone plays as femshep.

[Maxwell Adams]

I have something you can add to this:

THE CRUCIBLE HAS GIANT CITADEL-GRABBING ARMS ON IT

The people building the Crucible had no idea what it really did, or what the Catalyst might be. They just built this thing from the blueprints they had. Didn't they ever wonder what those gigantic mechanical arms were for? Did they try to guess what they might fit on to?

The Citadel, when open, has a diameter of about 8 miles. Fudging the math a bit, I figure the arms on the Crucible have to be about 2 miles long. Each.

"What do you suppose these giant arms are for?"
"I dunno. Looks like the mechanism is designed to operate in zero gravity, though."
"Yeah, and it grabs onto something circular about 4 miles across."
"Is there anything like that?"
"I don't care."
"Me neither."
"We just need to put this thing together."
"Hand me another glue stick."
"DERP."

[spartan5127]

This is a great read.
Note: you don't have to agree with the conclusion that ties it together (i.e. indoctrination theory), but everything pointed out is absolutely accurate as to why the ending makes no sense whatsoever. You can conclude that this is due to really really bad writing and planning if you wish and the points are still valid.

[Twiggyrez]

Must read

[Cobra's_back]

love this. HOLD THE LINE.

[Narsilsword]

Maxwell Adams wrote...

I have something you can add to this:

THE CRUCIBLE HAS GIANT CITADEL-GRABBING ARMS ON IT

The people building the Crucible had no idea what it really did, or what the Catalyst might be. They just built this thing from the blueprints they had. Didn't they ever wonder what those gigantic mechanical arms were for? Did they try to guess what they might fit on to?

The Citadel, when open, has a diameter of about 8 miles. Fudging the math a bit, I figure the arms on the Crucible have to be about 2 miles long. Each.

"What do you suppose these giant arms are for?"
"I dunno. Looks like the mechanism is designed to operate in zero gravity, though."
"Yeah, and it grabs onto something circular about 4 miles across."
"Is there anything like that?"
"I don't care."
"Me neither."
"We just need to put this thing together."
"Hand me another glue stick."
"DERP."

one of the consequences of the singular-solve all plot device

[uDoh]

Wonderful document, Great work there

[Karait]

Great find.

Keep em coming and hold the line!

[MatronAdena]

am I to assume " and hope" that once this is more or less finished that it will be sent to the creative teams as well as sent about the webbernets by members...I have been watching it evolve and am thrilled so much detail has already been mentioned- every time I think of something left out it shows up in a matter of minutes it seems

[S Atomeha]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Mims wrote...

Some of these can be taken away as gameplay necessities, like the radio.

Some are very weird though. Like the Shepard shot in the abdomen.

It wasn't clear that he was shot; and he was bleeding when he woke up on the Citadel and holding his side....

he/she was initially holding his right side, holding his left after he shot anderson on the left hand side.

[AwesomeDudex64]

Gawd that's a lot to read. I skimmed but there are valid points so this document should be spammed in the official feedback thread. And by spam I mean just refer to it and link it.

[Karait]

My favorite part.

"In other words, the only instance of the problem the Reapers exist to solve was a result of the Reapers intentionally causing the problem that they exist to solve."

I love the person who wrote this.

[doodiebody]

I have a hard time buying into the indoc theory, even though it is a pretty neat idea.

The one thing pointed out in this document that gave me some pause was the part about you bleeding in the same spot you supposedly shot Anderson in. That's, well, intriguing.

[Drake-Shepard]

lashrouxed wrote...

 Being updated as we speak and I cannot lie...most if not every single one of these points make sense! https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

I read through the document. You do realise everysingle plot hole is explained by the indoctrination theory.

After he gets knocked out by the beam he does not get back up....indoctrination is then trying to take over with that hallucination...

I could answer every single plot question on that document with the theory but it would  be better if you guys did that yourself.

plus...its a hell of a lot to write


edit
ps. I am actually surprised the person who typed up the majority of that did not reach the conclusion of the indoc theory himself

Modifié par Drake-Shepard, 18 mars 2012 - 07:27 .

[Taboo]

This..........is perfect. Keep it up, seriously.

[DocDoomII]

If I had written the ending I'd go bury myself somewhere for the shame after having read that document.

[Rafe34]

jb1983 wrote...

Arquin wrote...

If by the will of some great force the indoctrination theory would stand to be true, wouldn't that just ****** of many people? Since 2 out of 3 choices would lead to failure and only the destroy option would break Shepard free...

I think indoc is a stupid idea. I don't think it's true. 

If Bioware accepted it and used it as a way to transition to a real ending, you wouldn't hear a single complaint out of me. 

What? Your two comments make no sense. All Indoc theorists think there is more to the ending than what we got.

[aapblok]

Dear Bioware, read this.

- Everyone

[Rafe34]

Drake-Shepard wrote...

lashrouxed wrote...

 Being updated as we speak and I cannot lie...most if not every single one of these points make sense! https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

I read through the document. You do realise everysingle plot hole is explained by the indoctrination theory.

After he gets knocked out by the beam he does not get back up....indoctrination is then trying to take over with that hallucination...

I could answer every single plot question on that document with the theory but it would  be better if you guys did that yourself.

plus...its a hell of a lot to write

Did you even bother to read the document? It says at the top that this is why he hopes Indoc is correct, because he can't believe a professional writer would write something this full of holes.

[archanesoldier]

Must read for everyone including those who say they liked the endings.

[Drake-Shepard]

Rafe34 wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

lashrouxed wrote...

 Being updated as we speak and I cannot lie...most if not every single one of these points make sense! https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

I read through the document. You do realise everysingle plot hole is explained by the indoctrination theory.

After he gets knocked out by the beam he does not get back up....indoctrination is then trying to take over with that hallucination...

I could answer every single plot question on that document with the theory but it would  be better if you guys did that yourself.

plus...its a hell of a lot to write

Did you even bother to read the document? It says at the top that this is why he hopes Indoc is correct, because he can't believe a professional writer would write something this full of holes.

My bad, i skipped through the disclaimer part and concetrated on the bullet/highlighted points. I take back my belittleing post (if it seemed that way)

In that case this idea is brilliant...to list plot holes in the literal theory and reach a conclusion. One can then post plot hole in IT theory and see if they can be explained and reach an actual consensus. 

ps. every single potential debunk of the IT theory i have encountered so far is easily explained. My money is on Indoc!

The potential for future dlc /free/paid and opinion on it being put aside and just focusing on storyline consistency is very constructive. Well done whoever started this

Modifié par Drake-Shepard, 18 mars 2012 - 07:36 .

[Lumenadducere]

Yeah, even if you don't support the Indoctrination Theory this is still a decent summary of logic gaps and plot holes. Some of it's extrapolation but it's a good way to show how badly the entire end sequence goes against what the setting has established beforehand. Internal consistency is important to any work of fiction - it's one of the first things any fiction writer is taught (or it should be, at least). If there isn't an overarching explanation like the Indoc. Theory then the fact that the ending has zero internal consistency just makes it bad writing. Given the fantastic writing in other portions of the game, I'm really hoping that's not the case.

I think I'll just link to this from now on if I ever need to show someone why I'm dissatisfied with the ending.