169 réponses à ce sujet

[Paragon Auducan]

KylieDog wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

@KylieDog:

You just hate the indoc.theory....the author of this document is not implying that the indoc theory is fact....he just says that the only possible way for the plotholes to make sense is if the theory were true....he even states the document isn't based on the indoc theory....he just lists all of the plotholes....plain and simple....don't hate just because you saw the words "indoctrination theory" within the document

Not at all, when only the demo was out I theorised the child was the result of indoctrination, however this article is just bogus on many claims, examples:

Arrival confirming Relay explosions wipe out star systems...NOT A FACT, ramming an asteroid into one does that sure, we have no idea in what manner the citadel force the explosions, if you watch the video it seems to be channelling it into a burst to the next relay.  It would make more sense that half the galaxy isn't nuked by design.

Joker apparently MUST exit at a mass relay, where he would then be destroyed instantly, this is apparently all fact except my above example allows for a passage of escape.  Secondly, he could have been forced to drop out at a point between the 2 mass relays if the ships engines went to hell and that wave caught up, which it looked like.

How did Hackett know someone was alive on the Citadel?  Apparently a fact that he knows everyone died....except Hackett would have known someone was on it because it opened up for the Crucible to connect.  He believes in Shepard, fair to assume he would try contact him/her.

There are many more silly assumptions that overlook thngs or just other possibilities.


Sorry you don't just get to lable me a hater based on nothing

An explosion is an explosion no matter how it is detonated.
The explosion shouldn't even affect the ship.
He 'knew' it was Shepard, how.

[Jonlissla]

I have now read the entire document from start to finish, and I have to say that I'm numbstruck. How, just how, could this plot be accepted and implemented? This is beyond absurd. The entire appeal of the series was snuffed out in 10 minutes, only to be told later that this might not even be the "real" ending, as if kicking the entire fanbase in the crotch.

Sweet Jesus, this is terrible.

Modifié par Jonlissla, 18 mars 2012 - 08:39 .

[RedMike512]

This is mostly pro-indoctrination theory propaganda. Rather than being about why the ending is bad, its more about why indoctrination is correct. Not really what I want to read.

[beyzend]

Paragon Auducan wrote...

beyzend wrote...

No matter what theories people come up with that seem to fit, it's all speculation. They are all just extrapolations of our own minds to the images on screen. So a) you take the exact images and sound of the ending at face value or you speculate upon it. There is nothing you can do unless BW come out and explain the ending in a canonical way, hmm I mean interpret the ending. I doubt they will do that. The only other way is that it's all planned and the indoc. theory is true. But the problem with indoc. theory is that it's all speculation too.

It's all speulation. Numerous things mentioned in this doc may *seem* to fit, but they're still just speculations. Unless BW planned this all along.

Ignore the theory, this show all the plotholes. It's saying the ONLY way for them to make sense is if the theory is correct.

True, however, they're still speculations. What is stopping me from coming up with my own speculations that nullify your plotholes? You say but they're by definition plotholes. But aside the ending can you say there aren't any other plotholes in the series? The only way for those plotholes to be the only possible outcome is to have no other interpreations in conjunction to everything else in the series, ie. leaving no room to speculate. I just don't see it with most of these items in this doc. There is room for speculation!

So the ending is probably final.

 

Modifié par beyzend, 18 mars 2012 - 08:41 .

[Paragon Auducan]

beyzend wrote...

Paragon Auducan wrote...

beyzend wrote...

No matter what theories people come up with that seem to fit, it's all speculation. They are all just extrapolations of our own minds to the images on screen. So a) you take the exact images and sound of the ending at face value or you speculate upon it. There is nothing you can do unless BW come out and explain the ending in a canonical way, hmm I mean interpret the ending. I doubt they will do that. The only other way is that it's all planned and the indoc. theory is true. But the problem with indoc. theory is that it's all speculation too.

It's all speulation. Numerous things mentioned in this doc may *seem* to fit, but they're still just speculations. Unless BW planned this all along.

Ignore the theory, this show all the plotholes. It's saying the ONLY way for them to make sense is if the theory is correct.

True, however, they're still speculations. What is stopping me from coming up with my own speculations that nullify your plotholes? You say but they're by definition plotholes. But aside the ending can you say there aren't any other plotholes in the series? 

By all means explain the plotholes.

[OrumLeader]

MaYtriX wrote...

Im starting to wonder if bioware did this on purpose....

I'm wondering the same at this point.  The story (and side stories) throughout the series is very good, maybe even excellent.  To make this gross type of error in story at the end - pardon the pun - is out of character for Bioware.  That in itself is not logical.  Only logical explantion is they intended it.

As to why, i don't know - i can only hope there is something else comming that is not annouced.

[Paragon Auducan]

RedMike512 wrote...

This is mostly pro-indoctrination theory propaganda. Rather than being about why the ending is bad, its more about why indoctrination is correct. Not really what I want to read.

Indoctrination isn't even mentioned until halfway through, it's also there as an example on how the plothole can work. It's not trying to prove anything.

[masneoquil]

Does anyone notice, that after the ending the game just tell you to continue playng the DLC, when in the first two you had a choice?. It's like they planing to give you a DLC to continue playing after the ending.
Just a though

[Sesshaku]

Drake-Shepard wrote...

Sesshaku wrote...

I never noticed that "double shepard voice" of the Child.
Does someone has a good video that shows that?. I remember a completly new voice.

 

the video is all  good..except 1 mistake at the start.

But from 10 mins the double shep voice is mentioned. closest clip i have found

I actually saw that video, but i can't hear anything but a child's voice with some audio effects on it. No male and fem shepard voice. I was asking if there was a video that actually focus on showing the audio channels. 

[Walrusninja]

Whether or not you believe in that theory, it is absolutely brilliant.

[Paragon Auducan]

Also 1 more story = 1 more official none optional story.

They have said they will be doing lots throughout the year (ME2 had multiple story DLC).

Why would he be so specific with 1. It also means his story would be AFTER the story he just told.

Modifié par Paragon Auducan, 18 mars 2012 - 08:46 .

[Jonlissla]

beyzend wrote...
True, however, they're still speculations. What is stopping me from coming up with my own speculations that nullify your plotholes? You say but they're by definition plotholes. But aside the ending can you say there aren't any other plotholes in the series?

The ending of ME3 make the plotholes of the previous games look like pebbles compared to Mount Everest.

[Tony Redgrave]

Well done! Excellent document.

[Sashimi_taco]

MatronAdena wrote...

I posted this earlier, would love if anyone out there can look into it and see if it's been covered or If Im remembering it right:

during the space battle it actually seemed that the super alliance had actually been gaining the upper hand,

part of he idea comes with the crucible's arrival , seriously look at the size of it

god kid said he knew what it was all about, by that the reapers must have...yet somehow they can get it from the relay to earth unscathed , and dock it to the citadel unscathed.

if this was all really playing out, and harby jr KNEW that was a bad thing the reapers SHOULD have been focusing fire on that thing the moment it showed up..

it all really felt like the reapers were actually loosing ground


of course then when space magic happens the ONLY ships in the space shots were reapers.


meaning that at some point after the Admiral said " nothings happening" -meaning they were still there and watching" and the time the beam happens every single super alliance craft fell back and left the system? they didnt stay there to defend their " only hope to stoping the reapers" and buy shep time?




something I'd love some insight on.

You have a very good point here. It really doe seem like we were having the upper hand. 

[wombat_stalker]

Good read, but a bit too much "makes no sense" and too little "wasn't what we actually wanted". Trying too hard to be logical. Gamer dislike not entirely sensible. (On the flip side: gamer like not entirely sensible either. Remember the writers were surprised that so many people liked Garrus and Tali)

[BBCH]

When you see everything laid out like this, point by point... it's even worse.

[M8DMAN]

PLOTHOLES, PLOTHOLES EVERYWHERE!

[People4Peace]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

LyletheBloody wrote...

 Was anybody else bugged by the fact that Shepard was referred to as "her" in the document?

I was.

Welcome to what it is like to play as femshep in a male dominated industry. 

This.

On topic: The google doc is excellent! I hope the devs are reading it!!

[People4Peace]

JoeLaTurkeyII wrote...

The Google Doc has become a Bioware fan's Thanix Cannon

SO true! It helped change Deception so hopefully it can have a similar impact on ME3

[Mayple]

So I finally read through the document...

It seems that indoctrination and/or hallucination is the only real way to tie up all the loose ends and make everything plausible. However, if this is the way that bioware intended for the franchise to end, to me it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth. It leaves this hero goes through so much and just when he's about to win he loses feeling. Its not happy its not sad its just annoying. It almost feels like a cop-out ending if this is what is supposed to happen.

[MissMaster_2]

BUMPING THIS

[beyzend]

Paragon Auducan wrote...

beyzend wrote...

Paragon Auducan wrote...

beyzend wrote...

No matter what theories people come up with that seem to fit, it's all speculation. They are all just extrapolations of our own minds to the images on screen. So a) you take the exact images and sound of the ending at face value or you speculate upon it. There is nothing you can do unless BW come out and explain the ending in a canonical way, hmm I mean interpret the ending. I doubt they will do that. The only other way is that it's all planned and the indoc. theory is true. But the problem with indoc. theory is that it's all speculation too.

It's all speulation. Numerous things mentioned in this doc may *seem* to fit, but they're still just speculations. Unless BW planned this all along.

Ignore the theory, this show all the plotholes. It's saying the ONLY way for them to make sense is if the theory is correct.

True, however, they're still speculations. What is stopping me from coming up with my own speculations that nullify your plotholes? You say but they're by definition plotholes. But aside the ending can you say there aren't any other plotholes in the series? 

By all means explain the plotholes.

I'm not saying the ending was perfect. Sure there will be plot holes. But I feel many of the items listed are speculations and not things that are The One True way^ tm. You can argue that your speculation is the most logical. Some are no doubt logical, but others are not. For example:

Part I.
Item #1, that's speculation. Do you know how long Shep was knocked out? There is no way of knowing. Those observers could have been under fire, under duress, so it's possible they didn't see Shep (or did not recognize him) or any survivors and had to pull out. It's a battlefield. It's chaotic. No way of knowing how long SHep was out.

Item #2, another speculation. There could be a number of reasons there were no convergence of enemy forces on Shep's position during the period that Shep was out (surprise, speculations). Or any number of other speculations, completely unrelated to your speculation that could also explain this scene.

Item #3, this is logical given what is known. Sure if I were Harbinger I would not leaving the scene with Shep. in such a vulnerable state. But, it’s still speculative. We are not all knowing. We don’t know the situation surrounding that scene. I can speculate a number of other reasons why Harbinger had to leave that without being incongruent with the plot. So another speculation.

Item #4, I will give you this one. I never said the ending was particular good either.

Item #5, it’s a video game. There is no buts to this one. Given the limits of the game this one is irrelevant. Everything else is speculation.

item #6, speculation. Instead of a dream you can say that’s how they’re artistically depicting being in shell shock.

item #7, artistic license in a video game. Again, another speculation.

Part II.

Item #1, speculation. Artistic license.

…. etc etc etc ….[/b] 






 

[Sashimi_taco]

LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE!

[Da Don Giovanni]

Jonlissla wrote...

I have now read the entire document from start to finish, and I have to say that I'm numbstruck. How, just how, could this plot be accepted and implemented? This is beyond absurd. The entire appeal of the series was snuffed out in 10 minutes, only to be told later that this might not even be the "real" ending, as if kicking the entire fanbase in the crotch.

Sweet Jesus, this is terrible.

Sweet Jesus indeed.

[MatronAdena]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

MatronAdena wrote...

I posted this earlier, would love if anyone out there can look into it and see if it's been covered or If Im remembering it right:

during the space battle it actually seemed that the super alliance had actually been gaining the upper hand,

part of he idea comes with the crucible's arrival , seriously look at the size of it

god kid said he knew what it was all about, by that the reapers must have...yet somehow they can get it from the relay to earth unscathed , and dock it to the citadel unscathed.

if this was all really playing out, and harby jr KNEW that was a bad thing the reapers SHOULD have been focusing fire on that thing the moment it showed up..

it all really felt like the reapers were actually loosing ground


of course then when space magic happens the ONLY ships in the space shots were reapers.


meaning that at some point after the Admiral said " nothings happening" -meaning they were still there and watching" and the time the beam happens every single super alliance craft fell back and left the system? they didnt stay there to defend their " only hope to stoping the reapers" and buy shep time?




something I'd love some insight on.

You have a very good point here. It really doe seem like we were having the upper hand. 

I was hit with it as soon as someone mentioned space...I thought back to the scene with the beam /ulse going out  ( which was mere moments after you make a choice, and in the bg you seee the battle quite clearly)

yet when it goes " poof" across the system, the scenes had ONLY Reapers

where the hell did everyone else go so fast?


I initially questioned that because I picked destroy.....yet Edi came out of the ship ( still wondering if that was more of a glitch giving her the most used flag) as that was STATED to be an impossibility through destroy

so I was wanting to see if Geth ships got wiped out too in the scene, only to notice the lack of everyone but reapers to start with.

so basically Im stuck with a glitch, or Harby JR was full of crap ( which I felt he was anyway)