229 réponses à ce sujet

[Faust1979]

Overule wrote...

I'd wager that the dissenting voices from within the community at large just don't understand the crux of our complaint. It isn't the "unhappyness" that's got us upset, it's the unfulfilled promises made by the developer and the DLC gouging over the years and the gaming media talking down to us and telling us our opinions are wrong...

Honestly guys, give us a shot. We're not being unreasonable here, and who would you rather stand with? EA? The Man? Or with your brothers & sisters in the gaming community? Think about it.

I'm on my side I don't stand with you I'll decide what I spend my money on and what I enjoy or don't enjoy not you

[Gogo1]

Theodoro wrote...

Gogo1 wrote...

Theodoro wrote...

Gogo1 wrote...

I personally don't understand what everyone is so upset about. I personally loved the ending of ME3, and the series will probably be remembered as the best video game series of my life! After I finished it I went onto YouTube to see the other endings, and I still don't get what the fuss is all about. Sure, there were some similarities, but all the endings had their own touch.

Also, like someone said before me, I have yet to see any suggested improvements. If someone posted a link to these, I'd gladly read them!

'Some similarities' is putting it inconceivably mildly. The only real difference is the colour.

Well, yes, but what more could they have done? Pardon me for not being the most creative of men, but I honestly can't see what they could have added to each individual choice that you could make.

They surely wouldn't have been able to make 16 entirely different endings as they promised, granted, but they could have made at least one Paragon and one Renegade ending with slight differences (which could be determined by the War Asset score, player's love interest, whether they destroyed or kept the Collector Base, etc.)

However, the one thing I would have wanted the most is at least one ending that had some sense in it. Sadly, we don't even have one.

Then how would you have changed the ending so that it did make sense? I mean, you are after all playing a game where faster than light speeds are achieved all the time, English-speaking aliens, robotic giants without any (known) origin, human-alien intercourse and so on. I'm sorry, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of ground for sense when you look at the large picture.

[GeneralArrow]

This topic is part of what is wrong with this movement, while I respect it and admire it for trying to take actions into it's own hands most of what I see is down right hate. I see people hating on Bioware, the Developers, and anyone who doesn't agree with this movement. It's not that I my self am against this movement I am against it's tone. Other than say the Charity there is no positive feedback. What I mean by positive feedback is anyone who has a difference in opinion is called a troll, blasted for failing or maaaaany other things. When I tried to argue rationally with the movement 3 or 4 people actually bothered to respond with anything logical or worthy of responding to. It's easy to observe also. Just wait for someone to post something positive about the games ending and see what happens. They will get jumped and beaten on, called a troll or worse things. Nor is it those against it, some people actually like the endings and you have to aknowledge that.

Modifié par GeneralArrow, 18 mars 2012 - 09:41 .

[Theodoro]

Gogo1 wrote...
Then how would you have changed the ending so that it did make sense? I mean, you are after all playing a game where faster than light speeds are achieved all the time, English-speaking aliens, robotic giants without any (known) origin, human-alien intercourse and so on. I'm sorry, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of ground for sense when you look at the large picture.

Every single one of these points has been explained in the Codex and it's something you'd expect in a sci-fi game. If it was a 'realistic' game, we wouldn't be playing it because some of us want some kind of escapism. However, there are boundaries, even for the sci-fi genre, which should not be confused with fantasy. A space child appearing out of nowhere, having unlimited power, presenting you with these so-called 'choices' is totally inconsistent with the theme of the game. It's as if it's taken out of a dream or something (there are theories for that already).

Besides, the Crucible was something that was built by several civilizations over numerous cycles so the child being the Catalyst had absolutely zero logic to the lore.

Modifié par Theodoro, 18 mars 2012 - 09:46 .

[Gogo1]

Theodoro wrote...

Gogo1 wrote...
Then how would you have changed the ending so that it did make sense? I mean, you are after all playing a game where faster than light speeds are achieved all the time, English-speaking aliens, robotic giants without any (known) origin, human-alien intercourse and so on. I'm sorry, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of ground for sense when you look at the large picture.

Every single one of these points has been explained in the Codex and it's something you'd expect in a sci-fi game. If it was a 'realistic' game, we wouldn't be playing it because some of us want some kind of escapism. However, there are boundaries, even for the sci-fi genre, which should not be confused with fantasy. A space child appearing out of nowhere, having unlimited power, presenting you with these so-called 'choices' is totally inconsistent with the theme of the game. It's as if it's taken out of a dream or something (there are theories for that already).

Besides, the Crucible was something that was built by several civilizations over numerous cycles so the child being the Catalyst had absolutely zero logic to the lore.

Here's a video that a friend of mine just sent me. It kind of blew my mind, and I recommend that all who are wondering what the hell the ending was about to watch it. WARNING: GREAT SPOILERS

[ziloe]

GeneralArrow wrote...

This topic is part of what is wrong with this movement, while I respect it and admire it for trying to take actions into it's own hands most of what I see is down right hate. I see people hating on Bioware, the Developers, and anyone who doesn't agree with this movement. It's not that I my self am against this movement I am against it's tone. Other than say the Charity there is no positive feedback. What I mean by positive feedback is anyone who has a difference in opinion is called a troll, blasted for failing or maaaaany other things. When I tried to argue rationally with the movement 3 or 4 people actually bothered to respond with anything logical or worthy of responding to. It's easy to observe also. Just wait for someone to post something positive about the games ending and see what happens. They will get jumped and beaten on, called a troll or worse things. Nor is it those against it, some people actually like the endings and you have to aknowledge that.

Uhh, the guy posting against this earlier is a troll. Where people were being completely civil, he was name calling. 

Not to mention the fact that the people who like the endings are a small minority. Refer to this post:

Optimus J wrote...

OK, first of all there is a post in the PR thead where Relwyn point how statistics work:
http://social.biowar...49/118#10179019

Relwyn wrote...

As I work in a scientific field for a 
living, a sample of 50 000 is overkill for any scientific study when 
extrapolating the results of the statistics onto a larger population. 
Normally a study has a few hundred or a few thousand individuals 
participating because it is enough to make conclusions based on the 
statistical analysis. 

A sample size of tens of thousands is 
simply put overkill in terms of statistics. Studies with such a sample 
size are on a continental or national scale. While the poll itself is 
simply put a poll and nothing more, it's limited in some ways - however:
Anyone who sees it at Bioware is probably lighting a cigarette with 
shaky hands because they know that the poll is a good indication of the 
public's view of the game's ending. 

To do as IGN and other 
organizations (including Bioware) have done and call it a minority or 
try to downplay the size of the community which thinks the ending is 
terrible is to be intellectually disingenuous/dishonest.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png[/smilie] 

While
they do their PR-shell game for now (which they can only keep up for so
long, sooner or later they'll have to come clean), I'll shamelessely 
Hold the Line.

It points that the argument about us being a vocal minority of 50 thousand in a universe of over 2 million is a false premise.

Even with a high sigma due to it being a voluntarily answer, with no sorting of samples, 98% still high enough to make an assumption that at least 4 out each 5 players thing that way.

So it's important to spread the idea is that the poll don't point that 50K of 2M are only 2,5% of consumers unsatisfied, but that statistics point that in fact near 90% are, because the poll is not taking the opinion of the 2 million, and receiving only 50K. It's sampling 50K from the 2 million and receiving 98% of negative feedback...

Statiscally if translates as 1.8~1.95M of potential unsatisfied customers. Don't buy the vocal minority crap. There is million of us outside not voicing their thoughts YET.

[GeneralArrow]

Theodoro wrote...

Gogo1 wrote...
Then how would you have changed the ending so that it did make sense? I mean, you are after all playing a game where faster than light speeds are achieved all the time, English-speaking aliens, robotic giants without any (known) origin, human-alien intercourse and so on. I'm sorry, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of ground for sense when you look at the large picture.

Every single one of these points has been explained in the Codex and it's something you'd expect in a sci-fi game. If it was a 'realistic' game, we wouldn't be playing it because some of us want some kind of escapism. However, there are boundaries, even for the sci-fi genre, which should not be confused with fantasy. A space child appearing out of nowhere, having unlimited power, presenting you with these so-called 'choices' is totally inconsistent with the theme of the game. It's as if it's taken out of a dream or something (there are theories for that already).

Besides, the Crucible was something that was built by several civilizations over numerous cycles so the child being the Catalyst had absolutely zero logic to the lore.

Watch it, no spoiler section.

[The Executioner]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

 Good for charity. Though I can't stop thinking about... Entitlement.
I should go. 

 You know what Entitlement is , it's a word governments use to change the subject and try to cast doubt on a legitimate grievance. It works on the uninformed and the uneducated apparently.

Modifié par The Executioner, 18 mars 2012 - 09:52 .

[GeneralArrow]

ziloe wrote...

GeneralArrow wrote...

This topic is part of what is wrong with this movement, while I respect it and admire it for trying to take actions into it's own hands most of what I see is down right hate. I see people hating on Bioware, the Developers, and anyone who doesn't agree with this movement. It's not that I my self am against this movement I am against it's tone. Other than say the Charity there is no positive feedback. What I mean by positive feedback is anyone who has a difference in opinion is called a troll, blasted for failing or maaaaany other things. When I tried to argue rationally with the movement 3 or 4 people actually bothered to respond with anything logical or worthy of responding to. It's easy to observe also. Just wait for someone to post something positive about the games ending and see what happens. They will get jumped and beaten on, called a troll or worse things. Nor is it those against it, some people actually like the endings and you have to aknowledge that.

Uhh, the guy posting against this earlier is a troll. Where people were being completely civil, he was name calling. 

Not to mention the fact that the people who like the endings are a small minority. Refer to this post:

Optimus J wrote...

OK, first of all there is a post in the PR thead where Relwyn point how statistics work:
http://social.biowar...49/118#10179019

Relwyn wrote...

As I work in a scientific field for a 
living, a sample of 50 000 is overkill for any scientific study when 
extrapolating the results of the statistics onto a larger population. 
Normally a study has a few hundred or a few thousand individuals 
participating because it is enough to make conclusions based on the 
statistical analysis. 

A sample size of tens of thousands is 
simply put overkill in terms of statistics. Studies with such a sample 
size are on a continental or national scale. While the poll itself is 
simply put a poll and nothing more, it's limited in some ways - however:
Anyone who sees it at Bioware is probably lighting a cigarette with 
shaky hands because they know that the poll is a good indication of the 
public's view of the game's ending. 

To do as IGN and other 
organizations (including Bioware) have done and call it a minority or 
try to downplay the size of the community which thinks the ending is 
terrible is to be intellectually disingenuous/dishonest.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png[/smilie] 

While
they do their PR-shell game for now (which they can only keep up for so
long, sooner or later they'll have to come clean), I'll shamelessely 
Hold the Line.

It points that the argument about us being a vocal minority of 50 thousand in a universe of over 2 million is a false premise.

Even with a high sigma due to it being a voluntarily answer, with no sorting of samples, 98% still high enough to make an assumption that at least 4 out each 5 players thing that way.

So it's important to spread the idea is that the poll don't point that 50K of 2M are only 2,5% of consumers unsatisfied, but that statistics point that in fact near 90% are, because the poll is not taking the opinion of the 2 million, and receiving only 50K. It's sampling 50K from the 2 million and receiving 98% of negative feedback...

Statiscally if translates as 1.8~1.95M of potential unsatisfied customers. Don't buy the vocal minority crap. There is million of us outside not voicing their thoughts YET.

Doesn't matter if he was a troll or not, and so what if the people who like the endings are a small minority.  You should show them respect regardles.

[ziloe]

GeneralArrow wrote...

ziloe wrote...

GeneralArrow wrote...

This topic is part of what is wrong with this movement, while I respect it and admire it for trying to take actions into it's own hands most of what I see is down right hate. I see people hating on Bioware, the Developers, and anyone who doesn't agree with this movement. It's not that I my self am against this movement I am against it's tone. Other than say the Charity there is no positive feedback. What I mean by positive feedback is anyone who has a difference in opinion is called a troll, blasted for failing or maaaaany other things. When I tried to argue rationally with the movement 3 or 4 people actually bothered to respond with anything logical or worthy of responding to. It's easy to observe also. Just wait for someone to post something positive about the games ending and see what happens. They will get jumped and beaten on, called a troll or worse things. Nor is it those against it, some people actually like the endings and you have to aknowledge that.

Uhh, the guy posting against this earlier is a troll. Where people were being completely civil, he was name calling. 

Not to mention the fact that the people who like the endings are a small minority. Refer to this post:

Optimus J wrote...

OK, first of all there is a post in the PR thead where Relwyn point how statistics work:
http://social.biowar...49/118#10179019

Relwyn wrote...

As I work in a scientific field for a 
living, a sample of 50 000 is overkill for any scientific study when 
extrapolating the results of the statistics onto a larger population. 
Normally a study has a few hundred or a few thousand individuals 
participating because it is enough to make conclusions based on the 
statistical analysis. 

A sample size of tens of thousands is 
simply put overkill in terms of statistics. Studies with such a sample 
size are on a continental or national scale. While the poll itself is 
simply put a poll and nothing more, it's limited in some ways - however:
Anyone who sees it at Bioware is probably lighting a cigarette with 
shaky hands because they know that the poll is a good indication of the 
public's view of the game's ending. 

To do as IGN and other 
organizations (including Bioware) have done and call it a minority or 
try to downplay the size of the community which thinks the ending is 
terrible is to be intellectually disingenuous/dishonest.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png[/smilie] 

While
they do their PR-shell game for now (which they can only keep up for so
long, sooner or later they'll have to come clean), I'll shamelessely 
Hold the Line.

It points that the argument about us being a vocal minority of 50 thousand in a universe of over 2 million is a false premise.

Even with a high sigma due to it being a voluntarily answer, with no sorting of samples, 98% still high enough to make an assumption that at least 4 out each 5 players thing that way.

So it's important to spread the idea is that the poll don't point that 50K of 2M are only 2,5% of consumers unsatisfied, but that statistics point that in fact near 90% are, because the poll is not taking the opinion of the 2 million, and receiving only 50K. It's sampling 50K from the 2 million and receiving 98% of negative feedback...

Statiscally if translates as 1.8~1.95M of potential unsatisfied customers. Don't buy the vocal minority crap. There is million of us outside not voicing their thoughts YET.

Doesn't matter if he was a troll or not, and so what if the people who like the endings are a small minority.  You should show them respect regardles.

No one is NOT showing them respect. Yes, people are mad. As they should be. Some of them are mad that the rest don't stand with us. You like an ending that is incomplete, and goes against everything in the lore. Something that was already done before ala Deus Ex. It is literally a cut and paste ending with no closure. 

No one is asking for some happy ending, but we want to feel satisfied, as is the subject of my first post. 

Modifié par ziloe, 18 mars 2012 - 09:53 .

[Theodoro]

Gogo1 wrote...
Here's a video that a friend of mine just sent me. It kind of blew my mind, and I recommend that all who are wondering what the hell the ending was about to watch it. WARNING: GREAT SPOILERS

Yeah, I know of this theory and it would be totally awesome if it were true. I feel as if it's too much to ask, however, and that's why I'm more inclined to believe that BioWare just messed up very badly. I hope I'm wrong.

[Gogo1]

Theodoro wrote...

Gogo1 wrote...
Here's a video that a friend of mine just sent me. It kind of blew my mind, and I recommend that all who are wondering what the hell the ending was about to watch it. WARNING: GREAT SPOILERS

Yeah, I know of this theory and it would be totally awesome if it were true. I feel as if it's too much to ask, however, and that's why I'm more inclined to believe that BioWare just messed up very badly. I hope I'm wrong.

I'm totally buying this ending. The friend who sent it was also outraged at the ending, but just said that if this is true, it's the best video game ending he has ever seen. I also agree with him. My mind is blown was beyond Pluto right now.

[ziloe]

Theodoro wrote...

Gogo1 wrote...
Here's a video that a friend of mine just sent me. It kind of blew my mind, and I recommend that all who are wondering what the hell the ending was about to watch it. WARNING: GREAT SPOILERS

Yeah, I know of this theory and it would be totally awesome if it were true. I feel as if it's too much to ask, however, and that's why I'm more inclined to believe that BioWare just messed up very badly. I hope I'm wrong.

Even if it is the case, that's kind of a terrible way to end the game. I think the fact that people are struggling with this, and trying to find so many justifications for the ending is just so they don't feel betrayed by the various promises from Bioware, who said that our choices mattered and would culminate into some true awesomeness. <- not verbatum, but you get what I mean.

[Theodoro]

Yeah, either way, it would have been great to see this implemented in the game itself so that we'd be stunned and surprised while playing it instead of discovering it beforehand. It would have been absolutely mind-blowing if it happened from the get-go. The Indoctrination Theory, that is.

[ziloe]

Theodoro wrote...

Yeah, either way, it would have been great to see this implemented in the game itself so that we'd be stunned and surprised while playing it instead of discovering it beforehand. It would have been absolutely mind-blowing if it happened from the get-go. The Indoctrination Theory, that is.

I just can't see it. I mean I get it, and I can see where people are coming from. But that literally means there has to be more to it, that there needs to be an actual ending, because this isn't it. We didn't go this far, to be suddenly indoctrinated and then opps, game over. If anything, you'd think having our war readiness high enough, we could avoid that all together! 

[Ieldra]

ziloe wrote...
No one is asking for some happy ending, but we want to feel satisfied, as is the subject of my first post. 

Actually, I do ask for a happier ending. Not necessarily for Shepard, but for the rest of the galaxy. Having galactic civilization destroyed in all endings makes the endings feel like downer endings.

BTW,
The indoctrination hypothesis is an abomination which will remove the little choice we have left in the game if Bioware reinterprets the ending to fit it.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 mars 2012 - 10:06 .

[Theodoro]

ziloe wrote...

Theodoro wrote...

Yeah, either way, it would have been great to see this implemented in the game itself so that we'd be stunned and surprised while playing it instead of discovering it beforehand. It would have been absolutely mind-blowing if it happened from the get-go. The Indoctrination Theory, that is.

I just can't see it. I mean I get it, and I can see where people are coming from. But that literally means there has to be more to it, that there needs to be an actual ending, because this isn't it. We didn't go this far, to be suddenly indoctrinated and then opps, game over. If anything, you'd think having our war readiness high enough, we could avoid that all together! 

Yeah, one thing that worries me is that dream or not, the final sequence is affected by your war readiness score (even though visually it's almost negligible), that's the reason for all the trouble for collecting war assets. If they don't in any other way affect the ending after you've supposedly broken free of indoctrination, then it's absolutely pointless to be collecting them.

[ziloe]

Ieldra2 wrote...

ziloe wrote...
No one is asking for some happy ending, but we want to feel satisfied, as is the subject of my first post. 

Actually, I do ask for a happier ending. Not necessarily for Shepard, but for the rest of the galaxy. Having galactic civilization destroyed in all endings makes the endings feel like downer endings.

BTW,
The indoctrination hypothesis is an abomination which will remove the little choice we have left in the game if Bioware reinterprets the ending to fit it.

Yes, I agree on the indoctrination. As for Shepard, I could care less about him living or dying. We knew the whole game it was about sacrifice. However, as you say, it would be nice to have a happy end for the rest of them - even if only bittersweet.

The endings that we have now however, are just copies of eachother minus a few colours, and all in all destroy every bit of replay value. 

I was actually going to replay all of the games again after I beat ME3, but knowing it doesn't matter now, I gotta say it's ruined that plan for me.

[AxholeRose]

BioWare did tell us to hold onto our saves.

Modifié par AxholeRose, 18 mars 2012 - 10:11 .

[Cell1e]

So pleased to see the children benefitting from this. I also really hope that EA/ Bioware corps decide to do something positive too and make some adjustments to the endings, will be great for them and for us!

I hope the total for the charity keeps rising.

[ziloe]

AxholeRose wrote...

BioWare did tell us to hold onto our saves.

Maybe so, however that doesn't mean anything for the ending. After the end game, you start right back on your ship to do more missions. 

[ziloe]

Cell1e wrote...

So pleased to see the children benefitting from this. I also really hope that EA/ Bioware corps decide to do something positive too and make some adjustments to the endings, will be great for them and for us!

I hope the total for the charity keeps rising.

Me too! It's weeks like this that it makes me proud to be a gamer. ;D

[VictoriousMarch]

AJRimmsey wrote...

ziloe wrote...

AJRimmsey wrote...

oh my god the emos are posting songs now

will the angst never end.

Since when is the song angsty? Why don't you have a listen? Just because people enjoyed a series, doesn't make them "emo". Secondly, emo is a style and genre of music. Not about cutting yourself, etc. 

i cant stand self entitled emo music that does nothing but highlight some spoiled brats anger at his mommy cos he cant get his own way.

so yes..emo fits this band well

you didnt think that we who dont care about the ending see you in some sort of heroic light ?
i personally see pee wee herman throwing a hissy fit cos his cornflakes were moist.

this whole thing is just more fuel for internet restrictions,its about time the net was taken away from those too young to see stupidity in thier actions.

When you put it that way.... Hell yes I am entitled to a better ending. One that is actually different depending open the course of action that I chose to make during my 5 years of playing this game. ME3 was advertised to be just that. Anything short of that is false advertisement. I personally am annoyed and ticked off because the game has zero replay value when it was portrayed as having scads of different endings needing lots of replays (not to mention the gaping plot holes). Multiplayer is only against Bots and will become super boring within a few more weeks (at most). And then we have people like you belightling people upset about the lack of choices in their ending. You need to grow up.

I am an unsatisified customer and it is my right and privalge to complain about the bill of goods sold to me. I pre-order this game almost a year in advance, I pre-ordered ME 1 and 2... I also pre-ordered Dragon age 1 and 2, and I have played BIOware games since the 90's. I am 30 years old, and in no way childlike or childish. Belightling me and everyone else upset about this game because you do not agree with them is childish.

Personally I would be less upset if the one ending they gave us was put together a bit better but the fact of the matter is it seems like they got to that portion of the games development realized they had absolutely no time to do what they wanted to do so they cobbled together something half assed and didn't even bother asking anyone if what they had done made sense.

Anyways thanks for your comments, stuff like this just reminds me how pissed off I am.

Modifié par VictoriousMarch, 18 mars 2012 - 10:40 .

[VictoriousMarch]

Gogo1 wrote...

I personally don't understand what everyone is so upset about. I personally loved the ending of ME3, and the series will probably be remembered as the best video game series of my life! After I finished it I went onto YouTube to see the other endings, and I still don't get what the fuss is all about. Sure, there were some similarities, but all the endings had their own touch.

Also, like someone said before me, I have yet to see any suggested improvements. If someone posted a link to these, I'd gladly read them!

Here are some suggested improvements...

Fix the plot holes there are lots. (Would post which ones and how but spoilers)

Fix the end boss

Fix the illogical twist at the end that has zero continuity with the rest of the game.

Let us use the me2 characters... seriously...

And why would they choose to make the majority of the side quests nothing other than world scanning?! What a waste... ME2 and M1 kills ME3 in terms of side quests. They could easily have cut the amount of quests in half and made you fight for the resource... IE. Asari commando's trapped in a reaper infested world go there and extract them... as in go there drop off some shuttles and kick some ass. As this stand the game is super linear.

I would have also prefered an ME2 style final confrontation using your party members...

OH yah and why does my immorted shepard look so wrong? How was this missed?!

Personally I think there is far too much wrong with this game for it to be fixed. Some of it can, but most of it revolves around the game/rpg element (which was significantly worse then ME2 or ME1). As for ending DLC, I dont want it. Give us DLC that brings some continuity to the ending. I'm pretty much resigned by this point that there will only ever be the one ending as it stands.

In fiction, continuity (also called time-scheme) is
consistency of the characteristics of persons, plot, objects, places and
events seen by the reader or viewer over some period of time. It is of
relevance to several media. (this is big for me)

Modifié par VictoriousMarch, 18 mars 2012 - 11:06 .