487 réponses à ce sujet

[Fuzrum77]

NPH11 wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

Helion Tide wrote...

Shaoken wrote...
The razor would indicate that Bioware thought this ending would be better recieved, thus earning more respect and getting more money. 

No one would think an ending like that -- assuming it WAS the actual ending at all -- would be received better by the masses.  Hell, if the majority of the people playing video games realize something's off with the ending, do you sincerely believe that the DEVELOPERS of the game itself, didn't?!  Come on...

The Razzor dictates that the theory with the least amount of assumptions is the correct one. My theory is based on the assumption that Bioware shipped the complete ending with the game, as evidenced by the fact that the last two games did the same. Your theory is assuming that Bioware has decided to run counter to their own trends, that Bioware would ship a game out without an ending, that Bioware would drop little hints that most people would miss throughout the game, that Bioware was lying when they said that the game would have a conclusion to the trilogy, etc. etc.

And that they were willing to play around with fan loyalty for some bizarre concept, running the risk that it would be poorly recieved and would drive away a large portion of their fanbase.

Yeah. For our sake, I hope it is the "double secret probation" ending theory. But for Bioware's sake, I hope they just F'ed up. Because if this is a PR stunt, some folks are gonna get fired for this. And I'm under no illusions anymore that they didn't just f**k up. If they were pulling shenanigans, there's NO reason for them to have waited this long and let this fire turn into a full-on inferno. Bioware messed up. Royally.

Modifié par Fuzrum77, 19 mars 2012 - 01:58 .

[Helion Tide]

NPH11 wrote...
The guy he quoted had it coming. He was an ass.

Then sure, they were both in the wrong.  This whole "he started it" nonsense is irrelevant.  This is not the place for hissy fits and name calling.  Can't be civil?  Go somewhere else and deck it out with verbal assaults. 

NPH11 wrote...
Sure they would. They already ended it by telling us to buy more DLC, they've already stated that the Mass Effect franchise will continue after the end of the Shepard trilogy. They certainly could've chosen to end it this way. The franchise isn't dead, this trilogy is.

Who said anything about anything being "dead"?  The amount of evidence to support indoctrination is mind numbing.  If you wish to believe that the trilogy they've told us from day 1 has found its closure that the developers deem it deserved, so be it.  I, for one, do not think ANY developer in their right minds would assume yet another cliffhanger is the equivalent to providing closure to their franchise.  Anyone who sincerely believes this, is just being juvenile and bitter; jumping to the gun before anything is set in stone.  This whole backlash reminds me of a child being given hints of a surprise and begging their parents for days to find out what it is like a spoiled brat.

NPH11 wrote...
You claim it is not the case simply because "They couldn't have screwed up that badly." The whole argument for the indoctrination ending hinges on this. Sounds more to me like a bunch of desperate people attempting to justify poor writing capping off a beloved franchise, desperately hoping that there's something more to it.

And then we get back to the traits of self-superiority and quasi-intellectualism that so many proponents of the indoctrination theory seem to have. Clearly the rest of us are to stupid to understand Bioware's genius of shipping a game with no ending at all rather than shipping it with bad endings, even though we have evidence to the contrary that they looked at sources like Deus Ex and The Matrix, hoping to make an ending that would leave lots of speculation.

What's sadder is that I'm sure Bioware is just going to piggyback on that idea, and so many people are going to go rushing back to them with arms wide open, apologizing for not seeing their intelligent design.

The entire argument for indoctrination does NOT "hinge" on anything.  It could be wrong for all we know.  But the evidence to support it is there, and without most of the scenarios played out under indoc theory, the "ending" of the game makes zero sense.  So, as a logical person, I'm going to head where the evidence lies.  If, for some strange reason, the evidence appears to favour that, in fact -- that WAS -- the end of the Mass Effect universe, so be it. 

For the time being, however, I'm going to give the developers behind this franchise the benefit of the doubt, and commend them for attempting something bold and courageous in an otherwise static industry of happy endings and linear progressions.

[FPS Harbinger]

If only BW understood. As clear as the video is, doubt they ever will. Most probably EA influence for DLC cash, they'll see none of mine.

[Stonesoundjam]

We need that plinkett guy who did those star wars reviews to review ME 3

[Bourne Endeavor]

Helion Tide wrote...

SoraStrife wrote...

Denial isnt just a river in Egypt bro. Theres lots of behind the scenes interviews where they quote Deus Ex and The Matrix as being inspirations, and wanted lots of speculation from everybody. They clearly wanted the endings to not answer questions so people would speculate.

Its backfired hard.

It has only backfired because people are so quick to assume their game is over.  If the indoc or hallucination theories come to fruition, Bioware will set an example to the rest of the game development community just how narrow-minded and barbaric the populous can be.  I feel incredibly sorry for Bioware right now, for trying to do something out of the ordinary by providing the fans with an unknown, or a cliffhanger on purpose, only to have it thrown in their face because no one was able to watch Liara give birth to some blue babies right away, or other such premature nonsense.

How do you suspect Bioware is going to capitalize any further on their Mass Effect title by ending their trilogy like that?  It makes zero sense on a development standpoint, and it makes even less sense on an economic standpoint.

There IS more to come, whether you want to believe it or not.

While I sincerely hope you are correct, this is a poor business decision regardless. They are essentially playing with people's emotions and risk future profitability. There is a reason no other company has even considered such an outlandish concept; the consequential backfire potential is extraordinary, as we have witnessed. By asking us to wait and remain "patient" we can easily assume they are hopeful this all blows over. What if nothing is done?

April is the cut off point as far as I am concerned. By then the majority would have played or at least know about the ending. If BioWare has not made any announcement, they simply aren't going to.

[Wowlock]

NPH11 wrote...



What's sadder is that I'm sure Bioware is just going to piggyback on that idea, and so many people are going to go rushing back to them with arms wide open, apologizing for not seeing their intelligent design.

After releasing a Full-game with this ending ? Nope, they already lost a lot of respect due to this screw up. Their remedy will now only allow me to consider if I ever gonna buy their products again.  Because as it is, I am quite done with them.

And if they actually go on and say '' we were planning on Indoc theory all along ! '' people will call them on their BS . I just hope we have the copies for the original theory that people come up with so we can have proof saying '' You ripped off DE and then Matrix...now you are ripping off your members' ideas and claiming it as your own ! ''

Believe me I wouldn't go this hard on them but all I can see from this ending is an insult to my journey, time,money and Intelligence.....

[d-boy15]

This guy ROCK!!!

[Dimensio]

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

Balmung31 wrote...

EDIT: It is now up.

Sorry, this guy and all the people that think these are things that make the ending "bad" are just plain below the level of thought required to comprehend the ending.

HOW can you point out every single thing that is inconsistent and plot holey about the ending in the same breath as pointing out the greatness of the entire rest of the game, and not stop and think..."hey...wait....made by the same people....weird....I don't think everyone on the dev team had a sudden anurism and lost all logical capacity for storytelling...perhaps...perhaps theres something else here, maybe I should read deeper into what's going on."

The thing is SO PATENTLY not reality, it has the EXACT flavor of EVERY OTHER dream sequence we have had, slow moving, gun of infinite ammo, things happening for no reason...and the dreams you have had before basically tell you 'child = fire; child + you = still fire; fire = bad;" so CHOOSE THE THING THE CHILD PORTRAYS AS THE WORST OPTION! Gah, its like this whole forum is suddenly bereft of the capacity for analytical thought.

If I understand your statement, you are suggesting that the developers lied in claiming the ending of Mass Effect 3 to bring the series to a satisfying conclusion, and instead that they allowed it to end on a "cliffhanger" contrary to their previous assertions.

[Rolling Flame]

He certainly did a good job with this video. I was a little worried he'd be ranting and raving, which wouldn't really do anybody any favours, but he was concise and soft-spoken, and I think the times he did get worked up was genuine frustration coming through.

[Keltikone]

Dimensio wrote...

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

Balmung31 wrote...

EDIT: It is now up.

Sorry, this guy and all the people that think these are things that make the ending "bad" are just plain below the level of thought required to comprehend the ending.

HOW can you point out every single thing that is inconsistent and plot holey about the ending in the same breath as pointing out the greatness of the entire rest of the game, and not stop and think..."hey...wait....made by the same people....weird....I don't think everyone on the dev team had a sudden anurism and lost all logical capacity for storytelling...perhaps...perhaps theres something else here, maybe I should read deeper into what's going on."

The thing is SO PATENTLY not reality, it has the EXACT flavor of EVERY OTHER dream sequence we have had, slow moving, gun of infinite ammo, things happening for no reason...and the dreams you have had before basically tell you 'child = fire; child + you = still fire; fire = bad;" so CHOOSE THE THING THE CHILD PORTRAYS AS THE WORST OPTION! Gah, its like this whole forum is suddenly bereft of the capacity for analytical thought.

If I understand your statement, you are suggesting that the developers lied in claiming the ending of Mass Effect 3 to bring the series to a satisfying conclusion, and instead that they allowed it to end on a "cliffhanger" contrary to their previous assertions.

Gotta agree, they said we may not like the ending, but that we would get resolution. What we got, was a DLC prep.

[lasertank]

Bump Angry Joe.

[Skypezee]

Rolling Flame wrote...

He certainly did a good job with this video. I was a little worried he'd be ranting and raving, which wouldn't really do anybody any favours, but he was concise and soft-spoken, and I think the times he did get worked up was genuine frustration coming through.

Whenever he gets excessively angry it's usually for comedy. But when he's serious and feels that he needs to say exactly what's on his mind, he's rather calm.

[DtheArtist327]

great view on the ending and I hope Bioware is watching this.

[DtheArtist327]

Just tweeted the link to @masseffect and hope they see it. Do the same all.

[NPH11]

Helion Tide wrote...

Then sure, they were both in the wrong.  This whole "he started it" nonsense is irrelevant.  This is not the place for hissy fits and name calling.  Can't be civil?  Go somewhere else and deck it out with verbal assaults. 

And yet you went forward and implied he was a child for being offended by someone's self-superiority. You're going to talk to us about civility?

Helion Tide wrote...

Who said anything about anything being "dead"?  The amount of evidence to support indoctrination is mind numbing.

 

But again, your evidence is that:

Helion Tide wrote...

without most of the scenarios played out under indoc theory, the "ending" of the game makes zero sense.

Helion Tide wrote...

I, for one, do not think ANY developer in their right minds would assume yet another cliffhanger is the equivalent to providing closure to their franchise.

 

You're assuming that all of the mistakes and fallacies in these endings are not actually mistakes, but part of some elaborate plan by Bioware to fool their audience. Yet you're also assuming that Bioware is incapable of poor writing and that they would run forward with this bizzare new concept, risking the alienation of thousands of dedicated fans and creating a media cicrus around their franchise.

Helion Tide wrote...

Anyone who sincerely believes this, is just being juvenile and bitter; jumping to the gun before anything is set in stone.  This whole backlash reminds me of a child being given hints of a surprise and begging their parents for days to find out what it is like a spoiled brat.

 

NPH11 wrote...
And then we get back to the traits of self-superiority and quasi-intellectualism that so many proponents of the indoctrination theory seem to have. Clearly the rest of us are to stupid to understand Bioware's genius of shipping a game with no ending at all rather than shipping it with bad endings, even though we have evidence to the contrary, that they looked at sources like Deus Ex and The Matrix, hoping to make an ending that would leave lots of speculation.

 

And how much more "set in stone" do we need things to be? The game has been out for almost two damn weeks now, usually things are "set in stone" by the release date. Bioware has already made statements identifying that they're proud of what they've created and have acknowledged the issues present. How much further do things need to get?

By the way, what was that you said about civility?

Helion Tide wrote...
If, for some strange reason, the evidence appears to favour that, in fact -- that WAS -- the end of the Mass Effect universe, so be it. 

 

My evidence certainly favours it. Video games are usually shipped with the actual ending. Not doing so would generally be considered an idiotic business practice.

Modifié par NPH11, 19 mars 2012 - 02:26 .

[MakeMineMako]

Good video and good points made.

[Sepharih]

Loved the video...nails everything, especially the final point.  Seriously, even people who enjoyed the ending will have a hard time arguing with the point that the ending contradicts central themes of the entire story.

Modifié par Sepharih, 19 mars 2012 - 02:30 .

[Swinns]

Hit the nail right on the head

[Scitenik]

I've liked his videos in the past, and I like this one. Yeah, most of the time he has the "I'm angry" gimmick, and it's funny and it works if you like that sort of thing, and it's fine if you don't, there's something out there for everyone.

But I really do like it when he does videos like this one, where he drops the character and just looks at something and goes down a list, putting his thoughts into it in an eloquent way. And in this case, it's something that hits close to home, and I pretty much agree with the video. Seeing all the quotes at the beginning laid out like that made me a bit angry at the whole situation all over again.

[IronMadness]

Again, this is a market survey to see how much you are willing to pay for the Fans by an end-to-measure. I have no head to the end this written that way just to have bad writers. You must have a different background, or simply the order of EA Bioware before killing, as it killed Bullfrog, Origins Enterprise ....

[the red boon]

If anyone questions why the end is horrible we should link them to this video.

[the red boon]

scyphozoa wrote...

I completely agree with him that the ending of ME3 should have been like ME2's suicide mission, except involving the entire galaxy.

I think most of us expected that for ME3 but bioware thought deus ex machina and buy DLC message at the end was  better. 

[Gorfimus]

Pretty much sums up the most important sticking points of the endings. I like it!

[Swinns]

Stonesoundjam wrote...

We need that plinkett guy who did those star wars reviews to review ME 3

Yes, yes, yes, yeeeeesssssss