195 réponses à ce sujet

[AgitatedLemon]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Indeed. You can have more than one ending. Sure, you could all survive the suicide mission but if you wanted to off some characters to make it more dramatic you were more than welcome to do so.

This.

The whole "Happy endings aren't realistic" argument also doesn't hold weight. Just throwin' that out there.

[HanPL]

Sorry can't resist not to post it

[addiction21]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

His point about the ending is that despite what any of us did we are still treated to three options with three cinematic endings(with little variety). We may have all played vastly different characters but still hit the same destination. These three similar endings also make our previous choices, our truces, our war assets pointless. Varying endings for the previous two games make sense because they were trying to steer a narrative but as their own employees stated they were not bound by this in the third game. They could have gone everywhere with the ending and instead they narrowed it down to A, B, C.

Yes the cinematics are pretty much the same but I disagre those endings are the same. Thats my problem. Each ending has different implications attached to them as how the galaxy goes on but we dont get any of that.
***Spoiler****
My only playthru was on my roomates Xbox with a default Shep. I sided with the Geth I also made the choice to destroy. That kills the Geth and leaves Rannoch empty. I made those choices. THeres not enough explanation to these choices.
***End spoiler***

There needed to be (god I hate them but this case I agree) some end cards. Some cards or cinematics as to how things play out.
That is something I think all Mass Effect fans deserve. Is what happens to the races and these characters. Closure.

Also the previous games were not that varied. Kill Saren or get him to shoot himself and then kill him again. Blow up the collector base or dont blow up the collector base..

[Ianamus]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Indeed. You can have more than one ending. Sure, you could all survive the suicide mission but if you wanted to off some characters to make it more dramatic you were more than welcome to do so.

This.

The whole "Happy endings aren't realistic" argument also doesn't hold weight. Just throwin' that out there.

Between all the people who died (or potentially died) in your playthrough, and what happened to certain planets, It would have been more of a bittersweet ending anyway, even if Shepard did get to live happily with his LI. He/she would certainly be suffering from a lot of psycological trauma. 

All I want is a relatively bittersweet ending, not one that goes out of it's way to be as depressing and angsty as possible, even when it contradicts established events. 

Modifié par EJ107, 18 mars 2012 - 11:44 .

[justlogme]

Sure wish someone at Bioware would respond to this, but you know they won't

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

There's no explanation of the choices. Everyone gets the same cinematic(post-Shepard decision). There's also no choice to not choose. Which is very annoying that Shepard just seems to accept what is offered without a voice of opposition.

[AKOdin]

Jynthor wrote...
They would need fuel as well.
They're screwed either way.

Hmm... virtually any gas giant with H will do as an input for fuel according to to the various planets scanned and the Codex. Given the size of the various fleets, jury-rigging a fuel creation facility in a system within range didn't seem implausible to me. And the Normandy is fast enough to travel between star systems under its own power without taking years of real time.  The events of the trilogy took place in roughly 3 years, after all.

EJ107 wrote...
But this assumes that the Quarians were chosen in the Geth/Quarian conflict and that the Liveships aren't destoryed in the battle/ when the Relay explodes. 

If you picked the Geth for example, the Turians stranded at Earth might as well already be dead. They certainly wouldn't have enough food for the 100 or so year trip back to Palaven with conventionaly ftl travel. The Quarians were barely surviving after 300 years of it, and that was with the Relay system intact and a large number of planets to strip mine, not to mention Pilgrimages.

Good point about choosing the Quarians. I did though. I also interpreted the Quarians as improving their position over time compared to when they fled their planets becuase of the Morning War. This is getting potentially spoilery, so PM's for any further discussion about the above?

Overall I thought his video was good, and it highlighted the big disconnects.

[batlin]

Agreed entirely. Joe is rarely off the mark.

[addiction21]

OdanUrr wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

7. I disagree since the entire series sets up the whole "we win but with heavy costs" and BioWare has made that clear. That regardless of our choices bad things will be happen.
I also find it amusing how BioWare having that "3rd choice" the so called "happy ending" is something they have been critcised for endlessly and now I see the same people throwing a fit because they got what they asked for.

I really don't understand why people advocate so strongly that there shouldn't be a "happy ending." It's not like we're asking for it to be the only ending, just one of many. Mass Effect is ultimately about choice, so the player should be able to choose the ending s/he likes the most. Because if we're going to argue that a "dark" ending is more real, I can tell you right now there are plenty of things in the game that defy credulity. We must remember this is still a form of escapism for many for us. If I wanted more realism, I'd play Battlefield or Modern Warfare.

Well to me it depends on what you wanted this happy ending to be.

If it is that the status que is maintained. The galaxy goes on as it was I disagree.

What have we, what has Sheapard been fighting against? The Reapers. Everything that the Reapers are and that includes the Mass Relays and the Citadel. Those Reapers we have always know are more then just those evilv squid like spaceships since ME1.

I dont want dark just for darks sake but to me it makes sense where it is. **spoiler follows*** my blank slate playthru I told Moridn about it. Just yesterday my roomate went the other way,  restarted the mission so he could show me when I got home from work and I dont think I could ever make that choice... ever ***edn spoler****

Good writing is good writing and its not that I think the ending was "bad writing" but it was too short on writing period.

Hell after TIM that last scene is just as long as Mordin (and the disagreeing with him is more fullfilling because you finally get to break his stoic attitude).

Rambling im going get back to my ME2 playthru

[The Razman]

Just watched it. I'm so, so glad that there's now an established video out there which puts all of the complaints which people have about there being plotholes into one concise place so we can examine them and see if they're true. Because I've heard all kind of baloney from "Mass relays destroy everything in the galaxy I thought" to "Joker could never survive that crash!".

3) Mass relays cause a massive explosion when they're destroyed because of the massive amount of energy coming out when you just shove an asteroid into one of them. So sorry, Angry Guy, different kind of explosion is the explanation.
4) How is them being stranded a "plothole"? That doesn't even make sense.
5) Legitimate complaint regarding the gameplay.
6) You saw what happened to the people you cared about for (long drawn out voice) fiiiive yeeeeears. You spent the entire game catching up with pretty much every single character in the Mass Effect universe to date. Hell, you even decide the fate/future of a few of them. Their stories have all finished. Anyone who's pissed that they didn't get some kind of epilogue showing them all having babies or settling down or whatever they were expecting ... suck it up, stories don't always tell you everything like that.
7) He just pissed me off at this point. "Why can't we see Liara doing Shadow Broker things or Tali on her home world or Jack with her students??" ... um, hello? YOU SAW ALL OF THAT IN THE GAME. Wanting a happy ending isn't a legitimate complaint.
8) As soon as he put up that "Yo Dawg" pic, I simply shut my eyes in despair. Anyone who uses that photo is simply proving they haven't understood it. I don't mind people not liking it ... but not liking it because you haven't understood it? No. It's a funny line, but it's based on flawed logic. And also "Why did the Illusive Man suddenly end up on the Citadel?" ... *facepalm* You were told he went there earlier in the game. Wasn't paying attention, then?
9) I never get this. People say "I wanted an option to reject the Starchild's crap". Um ... what's that going to gain you? You say "No. I don't wanna believe you. Lalalalalala not listening lalalalala *Crucible blows up, Reapers harvest galaxy, everyone dies*. Way to go, Sheperd. In fact, there's actually an option for this anyway ... stick around long enough on the final decision ... you get an ending screen saying the Crucible was destroyed. So there, you do have the option. Yay.
10) Nobody ever promised anything. People built up expectations, and now that the game hasn't met them ... they're saying Bioware broke a promise. The game reflected your choices across the whole series in almost every single mission that you undertook. And then when the ending is a different choice ... suddenly "none of your choices mattered"?. Please.

The reason he led with 1) and 2) is because those are legitimate complaints for plotholes. I don't agree with them, given that they rely on idealistic assumptions about Joker and how he "wouldn't run", and an assumption that after the attack force on the Citadel beam fell back and re-grouped that they wouldn't just evac out of the area where Harbinger was decimating everything ... but it does rely on an assumption of omission of information, and I can see how people would be confused about them.

But ultimately, it just wasn't a big enough of a jump to disrupt the emotion of the ending. And Gabe of Penny Arcade said it best for me:

What I do know is that you can let yourself get bogged down by details like how long a Star Destroyer is or how many innocent people Luke murdered when he destroyed the Death Star, or you can try and enjoy it knowing that it all doesn’t match up perfectly.

If you honestly let that minor plothole, if it is one, spoil the entire game for you ... then I don't know that that's what you're upset about. Seems to me that you're upset about other parts of the ending, and focusing on the plotholes is just a convenient target.

Modifié par The Razman, 18 mars 2012 - 11:57 .

[justlogme]

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

My least favorite part about the end is not the end itself, but the enormous amount of whining associated with it.

   Feel free not to read such threads then no ones forcing you, that would be the logical move. Calling 80% of the fanbase whiners.  because they don't agree with you just makes you look lame. 

[Weskerr]

This is the best case made against the ending of Mass Effect 3 that I've seen thus far.

[Random citizen]

EJ107 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Indeed. You can have more than one ending. Sure, you could all survive the suicide mission but if you wanted to off some characters to make it more dramatic you were more than welcome to do so.

This.

The whole "Happy endings aren't realistic" argument also doesn't hold weight. Just throwin' that out there.

Between all the people who died (or potentially died) in your playthrough, and what happened to certain planets, It would have been more of a bittersweet ending anyway, even if Shepard did get to live happily with his LI. He/she would certainly be suffering from a lot of psycological trauma. 

+100000000000000

[shinobi602]

Holy cow, just watched the whole thing, and made the whole end 10x worse....damn it I thought I couldn't get any more depressed

[Eliavres33]

I especially agree with his 5th reason. We wanted to see DIVERSITY! The different fleets we assembled working together! Just showing a lot of ships in the final battle is equal to nothing!

Where were the Batarians? The mercenaries? The Elcor? Volus? Hanar?
Where were the Rachni? THE SHEER POTENTIAL THESE GUYS HAD!!

You could've shown us each race and their preferred battle tactics, you could've given us so much more..in the end, it seemed like you didn't have YEARS to piece this ending together..


But don't worry, we WILL hold the line, no matter what.

[Butane9000]

illustrates our reactions nicely

[shinobi602]

Butane9000 wrote...



illustrates our reactions nicely

Damn nailed it.

[Cadence of the Planes]

justlogme wrote...

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

My least favorite part about the end is not the end itself, but the enormous amount of whining associated with it.

   Feel free not to read such threads then no ones forcing you, that would be the logical move. Calling 80% of the fanbase whiners.  because they don't agree with you just makes you look lame. 

I don't think the ending at face value is great (it might have a hidden meaning, which could potentially make it really, really creative - but that's for another discussion thread), but I don't hate it either- I'll live. I was merely answering the OP's question about what irks me the most about the ending.

80% is a rather assertive statistic ...what is your source? I believe the people who TRULY dislike the ending are a vocal minority - while a somewhat larger portion of the population that didn't really know what to make of the ending latched onto a mob-mentality because criticizing it suddenly became the cool thing to do.

I understood the uproar after reading through a few threads, but as the thread count started to rise from 5 to 50, I couldn't help but roll my eyes. The hyperbolic forum outrage overtook my mild reservations about the ending as something markedly easier to dislike. Don't get me wrong, there are some sensible and understandable threads out there, but they are unfortunately the exception and not the rule.

You can think I'm lame for voicing my own opinion, but feel free not to respond to my posts because no one is forcing you to. 

Modifié par Cadence of the Planes, 19 mars 2012 - 12:48 .

[shinobi602]

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

 I don't think the ending at face value is great (it might have a hidden meaning, which could potentially make it really, really creative - but that's for another discussion thread), but I don't hate it either- I'll live. I was merely answering the OP's question about what irks me the most about the ending.

80% is a rather assertive statistic ...what is your source? I believe the people who TRULY dislike the ending are a vocal minority - while a somewhat larger portion of the population that wasn't thrilled by the ending latched onto a mob-mentality because criticizing it suddenly became the cool thing to do.

I understood the uproar after reading through a few threads, but as the thread count started to rise from 5 to 50, I couldn't help but roll my eyes. The hyperbolic forum outrage overtook my mild reservations about the ending as something markedly easier to dislike. Don't get me wrong, there are some sensible and understandable threads out there, but they are unfortunately the exception and not the rule.

You can think I'm lame for voicing my own opinion, but feel free not to respond to my posts because no one is forcing you to.

Is that why almost every Youtube comment on the endings is negative? Why almost every game forum site that is discussing the endings is the same? For God's sakes even sites like IGN are describing their feelings. Why tens of thousands of people on Facebook and other social sites are raising money on this? But yea you're right, just a vocal minority.

Modifié par shinobi602, 19 mars 2012 - 12:48 .

[Cadence of the Planes]

 

Is that why almost every Youtube comment on the endings is negative? Why almost every game forum site that is discussing the endings is the same? For God's sakes even sites like IGN are describing their feelings. Why tens of thousands of people on Facebook and other social sites are raising money on this? But yea you're right, just a vocal minority.

I really don't think that many people are so outraged as much as entertained by dissing the ME3-ending. Watching youtube videos about how bad ME3 was, then looking at all the negative comments in no way undercuts what I am saying. The people who dislike ME3 (or just like dissing ME3) will flock to certain videos- it's not earth-shattering.

Edit: Most people don't know what to make of the ending because it's so unlike the rest of the series, so they'll follow the loudest, most polarizing voices - it's the popular thing to do.

Modifié par Cadence of the Planes, 19 mars 2012 - 12:58 .

[Artemis_Entrari]

Angry Joe is pretty much spot on with these.

[SomeBug]

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

justlogme wrote...

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

My least favorite part about the end is not the end itself, but the enormous amount of whining associated with it.

   Feel free not to read such threads then no ones forcing you, that would be the logical move. Calling 80% of the fanbase whiners.  because they don't agree with you just makes you look lame. 

I don't think the ending at face value is great (it might have a hidden meaning, which could potentially make it really, really creative - but that's for another discussion thread), but I don't hate it either- I'll live. I was merely answering the OP's question about what irks me the most about the ending.

80% is a rather assertive statistic ...what is your source? I believe the people who TRULY dislike the ending are a vocal minority - while a somewhat larger portion of the population that didn't really know what to make of the ending latched onto a mob-mentality because criticizing it suddenly became the cool thing to do.

I understood the uproar after reading through a few threads, but as the thread count started to rise from 5 to 50, I couldn't help but roll my eyes. The hyperbolic forum outrage overtook my mild reservations about the ending as something markedly easier to dislike. Don't get me wrong, there are some sensible and understandable threads out there, but they are unfortunately the exception and not the rule.

You can think I'm lame for voicing my own opinion, but feel free not to respond to my posts because no one is forcing you to. 

Liking or disliking the ending are irrelevant at this point. It is not a matter of interpretation or opinion.

There are objective problems with the ending. Objective. Very rare in a work of art for there to be problems so severe that they transcend taste and understanding, but they do.

Aside from plot holes, contradictions and retcons, all of which are objective problems that can be quantified, there are such severe issues with the rest of it that you would be hard-pressed to make a case for a subjective liking of it. At best, a tolerance to it. At worst, outright hatred.

Also, you know perfectly well that you could never accurately state how many fans as a percentage hold what opinion. It doesn't matter. Google Mass Effect 3 and the entire front page of results is specifically articles regarding the ending.

Whether it is a vocal minority or not, the issue is not a minority issue.

[AgitatedLemon]

Cadence of the Planes wrote...


Edit: Most people don't know what to make of the ending because it's so unlike the rest of the series, so they'll follow the loudest, most polarizing voices - it's the popular thing to do.

You sure it isn't just because they share a similar opinion?

[shinobi602]

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

 

Is that why almost every Youtube comment on the endings is negative? Why almost every game forum site that is discussing the endings is the same? For God's sakes even sites like IGN are describing their feelings. Why tens of thousands of people on Facebook and other social sites are raising money on this? But yea you're right, just a vocal minority.

I really don't think that many people are so outraged as much as entertained by dissing the ME3-ending. Watching youtube videos about how bad ME3 was, then looking at all the negative comments in no way undercuts what I am saying. The people who dislike ME3 (or just like dissing ME3) will flock to certain videos- it's not earth-shattering.

Edit: Most people don't know what to make of the ending because it's so unlike the rest of the series, so they'll follow the loudest, most polarizing voices - it's the popular thing to do.

Did you even watch the video? The guy is spot on with his sentiments. Can you refute any of them?

[Lux]

Good impressions. These reasons seemed obvious even before release, when I first got a hold of spoilers and cancelled my pre-order.

I still hope to be able to purchase the game under better circumstances.

Modifié par Merkar, 19 mars 2012 - 01:18 .