62 réponses à ce sujet

[FiGhTiNCoWBoY]

My current understanding is that 3 of the available sniper rifles at the moment have a passive stat known as Distance Penetrated.  From the weapon statistics that were pulled off the PC version it shows:
Black Widow - 25
Widow - 50
Javelin - 100

After finally getting the Javelin, I'm assuming the 100 is in relation to it being able to shoot through walls, this would also make sense with the Widow and Black Widow as you can shoot through light cover/thin walls as well. Some weapons have an attachement which also allows you penetration and a bonus damage to armor.  In addition, when leveling up Armor Piercing Ammo in campaign, there's evolutions which impact the ability to fire through walls.

My question is does Distance Penetration also included a bonus damage to Armor on enemies.  In theory, since the Javelin can shoot directly through walls, it should have an passive damage bonus when shooting an enemy such as a Brute. In just testing this however, I found if I hit a Brute on one of its armored plates, I still did reduced damage as I would hitting the plate with any other sniper rifle.

Furthermore, is distance penetrated affected at all by Armor Piercing Equipment I, II, or III.  In the campaign we can level up 
Armor Piercing Ammo to include this but how is this mechanic implimented through equipping one of the 3 Armor Piercing ammo bonuses in multiplayer and to what extent.  

If you wouldn't mind explaining, I'm actually curious what the damage bonus statistics are when equipping level I,II,or III of each of the various ammo types for multiplayer since we don't see statistics for them.

My final question involves Distance Penetrated when coupled with Armor Piercing Rounds in multiplayer.  Take the Javelin or Widow in this example.  Since they each have a respective Distance Penetrated of 100 and 50, how would these bonuses be enchanced or what impact would having Armor Piercing Rounds added to one of these weapons do against an armored enemy such as the Brute.  Would using an Armor Piercing III along with a Javelin have any affect or would the bonus do nothing since it already has a Distance Penetrated of 100?

I really hope one of the devs has the answers to this as I'm sure the community could benefit from knowing exactly what % bonuses they are getting from ammo types in multiplayer. 

[Elecbender]

I'm curious as well.

Also the Crusader has the same distance penetrated value as the Widow as that weapon will appear in the pack awarded on Tuesday.

[Kittstalkur]

Really, I just want to know if my armor piercing mod stacks with my Widow like I think it does. But then, I could just go find a thick wall to shoot through after I get it leveled up a bit.

[FiGhTiNCoWBoY]

bump

[SeijiTataki]

As far as I know;
Any abilities that add penetration to cover stack - so combining a sniper rifle with armor piercing ammo will increase the cover penetration. But it does not improve the damage penalty.

Any shot that goes through any sort of cover has a 50% damage penalty. Whether or not there's a 'maximum' penetration I don't know for sure; but I would assume there's no point in putting further cover penetration on the Javelin. (But ammo does give passive bonuses other than; it's just not worth it for the sake of shooting through cover)

[Kittstalkur]

SeijiTataki wrote...

As far as I know;
Any abilities that add penetration to cover stack - so combining a sniper rifle with armor piercing ammo will increase the cover penetration. But it does not improve the damage penalty.

Any shot that goes through any sort of cover has a 50% damage penalty. Whether or not there's a 'maximum' penetration I don't know for sure; but I would assume there's no point in putting further cover penetration on the Javelin. (But ammo does give passive bonuses other than; it's just not worth it for the sake of shooting through cover)

The penetration mods reduce the tax as you level them, though. I think the Lv5 sniper mod in SP is like, 30-40% less damage?

[DarthVarner]

Actually, AP mod increases Javelin's penetration but its innate 100% damage to the targets behind the barrier(s) override the AP mod's reductions.

So with the Javelin, you can load it up with AP and ext barrel mods... and shoot stuff insanely far away.

This is only really effective on the Javelin because it's inbuilt scope shows targeting outlines for anything it can hit - and these outlines are dynamically changed if you're running with AP mods.

[SeijiTataki]

Kittstalkur wrote...

SeijiTataki wrote...

As far as I know;
Any
abilities that add penetration to cover stack - so combining a sniper
rifle with armor piercing ammo will increase the cover penetration. But
it does not improve the damage penalty.

Any shot that goes
through any sort of cover has a 50% damage penalty. Whether or not
there's a 'maximum' penetration I don't know for sure; but I would
assume there's no point in putting further cover penetration on the
Javelin. (But ammo does give passive bonuses other than; it's just not
worth it for the sake of shooting through cover)

The penetration mods reduce the tax as you level them, though. I think the Lv5 sniper mod in SP is like, 30-40% less damage?

Yeah, you're right; double checked. But I don't know how that applies with the weapons that have inherit cover penetration and penalty. I would think ideally that you get the better of the penalties, but I don't know for sure.

Modifié par SeijiTataki, 18 mars 2012 - 10:50 .

[Kittstalkur]

DarthVarner wrote...

Actually, AP mod increases Javelin's penetration but its innate 100% damage to the targets behind the barrier(s) override the AP mod's reductions.

So with the Javelin, you can load it up with AP and ext barrel mods... and shoot stuff insanely far away.

This is only really effective on the Javelin because it's inbuilt scope shows targeting outlines for anything it can hit - and these outlines are dynamically changed if you're running with AP mods.

Huh. Makes me want a Javelin in MP to fool around with.

[FiGhTiNCoWBoY]

What I don't get is if penetration doesn't affect damage why does a Widow do exceedingly more damage to an armored target than say a Mantis? Is the extra base damage of the Widow just high enough that that's where it's coming from or does the penetration bonus factor into it.

Also if the Armor Piercing Ammo equipment adds to the penetration, to what extent does it improve damage vs armored targets?

[SeijiTataki]

Cover Penetration doesn't effect damage, in of itself (barring the fact that shooting through cover provides a damage penalty most of the time). That doesn't, however, prevent weapons from having bonus attack modifiers against types of damage. The Widow does 1.5x damage against armor.

[cuzIMgood]

Does the negative penetration bonus from the Penetration Mod still apply allowing you to have more penetration but at a weaker damage or does the Javelin just override this?

[SeijiTataki]

The Javelin theoretically ignores all the damage penalty; which means that if you have a weapon that has lesser penetration, and you put a cover penetration mod on it, it will go with the lower of the two damage penalties.

[FiGhTiNCoWBoY]

Where do you see a stat for the Widow indicating a 1.5x against armor though? The only statistic I've found is the distance penetrated value which is at 50. I haven't seen any stat explicitly stating it has a damage bonus vs. armor though, and if it is in fact due to the distance penetrated value, the Javelin should do 200% damage vs. armor.

Just for reference here is what I've been using for statistics

https://docs.google....many=true#gid=0 

the information is slightly outdated as SMG values have been changed in the recent patch but Sniper values should still be accurate.

Modifié par FiGhTiNCoWBoY, 19 mars 2012 - 01:23 .

[SeijiTataki]

Eh, I'm still assuming it works like it did in ME2; weapons may not have the same health/armor/shields modifiers attached to them anymore, now that I think about it.

Edit:
Looking at your spreadsheet, I assume armor piercing bonus on the penetration mod is applying some sort of damage modifier against armored targets, which means it should also be a stat on weapons that already have penetration stats.

Modifié par SeijiTataki, 19 mars 2012 - 01:37 .

[FiGhTiNCoWBoY]

Just need to hope a dev eventually responds and gives us the wisdom of Bioware lol

[pootthedestroyer]

TL;DR: in a game with RPG roots, why aren't players being given relevant decisionmaking information in a clear format re: weapons (and, to a lesser extent, powers?)

Seriously, transparency is ftw.

[FiGhTiNCoWBoY]

It would definitely be nice to have these statistics.  Or at least to know what evolutions of the Ammo types in SP apply to the versions in MP.

Modifié par FiGhTiNCoWBoY, 19 mars 2012 - 04:02 .

[FiGhTiNCoWBoY]

morning bump

[FiGhTiNCoWBoY]

 Any devs out there looking to answer yet :-)

[SickBoy254698]

FiGhTiNCoWBoY wrote...
Furthermore, is distance penetrated affected at all by Armor Piercing Equipment I, II, or III.  In the campaign we can level up 
Armor Piercing Ammo to include this but how is this mechanic implimented through equipping one of the 3 Armor Piercing ammo bonuses in multiplayer and to what extent.  

I really hope one of the devs has the answers to this as I'm sure the community could benefit from knowing exactly what % bonuses they are getting from ammo types in multiplayer. 

This info would not only be nice but we shouldn't have to ask for it.  The descriptions in the menus should provide all the information we are asking for.  

[Nompire]

Courtesy bump. Some answers on this would be awesome.

[FkingFail]

yeah, ive been wanting to know this information for a while now.

[Eric Fagnan]

FiGhTiNCoWBoY wrote...

My current understanding is that 3 of the available sniper rifles at the moment have a passive stat known as Distance Penetrated.  From the weapon statistics that were pulled off the PC version it shows:
Black Widow - 25
Widow - 50
Javelin - 100

After finally getting the Javelin, I'm assuming the 100 is in relation to it being able to shoot through walls, this would also make sense with the Widow and Black Widow as you can shoot through light cover/thin walls as well. Some weapons have an attachement which also allows you penetration and a bonus damage to armor.  In addition, when leveling up Armor Piercing Ammo in campaign, there's evolutions which impact the ability to fire through walls.

My question is does Distance Penetration also included a bonus damage to Armor on enemies.  In theory, since the Javelin can shoot directly through walls, it should have an passive damage bonus when shooting an enemy such as a Brute. In just testing this however, I found if I hit a Brute on one of its armored plates, I still did reduced damage as I would hitting the plate with any other sniper rifle.

Furthermore, is distance penetrated affected at all by Armor Piercing Equipment I, II, or III.  In the campaign we can level up 
Armor Piercing Ammo to include this but how is this mechanic implimented through equipping one of the 3 Armor Piercing ammo bonuses in multiplayer and to what extent.  

If you wouldn't mind explaining, I'm actually curious what the damage bonus statistics are when equipping level I,II,or III of each of the various ammo types for multiplayer since we don't see statistics for them.

My final question involves Distance Penetrated when coupled with Armor Piercing Rounds in multiplayer.  Take the Javelin or Widow in this example.  Since they each have a respective Distance Penetrated of 100 and 50, how would these bonuses be enchanced or what impact would having Armor Piercing Rounds added to one of these weapons do against an armored enemy such as the Brute.  Would using an Armor Piercing III along with a Javelin have any affect or would the bonus do nothing since it already has a Distance Penetrated of 100?

I really hope one of the devs has the answers to this as I'm sure the community could benefit from knowing exactly what % bonuses they are getting from ammo types in multiplayer. 

The penetration mechanic (going through walls) has no impact by itself on the amount of damage a weapon does against armored enemies (the yellow health bar). The Javelin, for example, has a penetration value of 100 = 1 meter so it can penetrate through a total of 1 meter of solid objects but it doesn't do extra damage to the yellow armor health bar. The Javelin will, however, penetrate through other solid objects like the detachable armor plating on the Brutes, Husks, and Cannibals, and the Guardian shield. Whenever a weapon hits a target after going through a solid object, the amount of damage done is reduced by a flat amount.

The weapon mods, equipment (MP), and Armor Piercing Ammo can all increase the distance that weapons can penetrate through solid objects. So if you add a penetration mod on the Javelin, the penetration distance gets even larger, but that won't increase the damage done to enemies after penetrating through objects.

The penetration mods and Armor Piercing Ammo have another mechanic called 'piercing' which affects the damage done to armored targets. By default, enemies with the yellow armor bar will chop off a set amount of damage done to them from weapons. This makes low damage weapons less effective against armor and high damage weapons very effective against them. So even if a weapon has a really fast fire rate but each bullet does a low amount of damage it will get penalized for hitting armor since a big chunk of every bullet's damage is ignored. When equipping penetration mods and using Armor Piercing Ammo, the weapon's "armor piercing" goes up, which means a lot less damage is cut off. For example, equipping rank 1 Armor Piercing Ammo will reduce the amount of damage that armor cuts off by 50%. By default, weapons do not have any base armor "piercing."

[Eric Fagnan]

I've posted this info in the gameplay mechanics thread.

http://social.biowar...2648/1#10321708

Modifié par Eric Fagnan, 20 mars 2012 - 05:22 .